>Demons Souls
>Wow this game is really great, but I dont like that you need to grind grass every time you die to a boss
>Dark Souls
>Thanks, the estus system is perfect
>Every other Souls game after it
>"Akshually go back to grinding grass"
Worst offender is Bloodborne, where you need flasks and bullets too, and just to taunt you, the store price scales with your level
>the store price scales with your level
First time this happened I honestly thought I was going crazy.
>Dark Souls
>Every area in the game is designed with the idea that the player has 5 estus flasks to heal with, the player can spend resources to get more if they are having trouble
>Dark Souls 2/3
>The player can have between 1-15+ fucking flasks.
Could have sworn they scaled based on progress in the game.
I never even realized that.
But I only found this to be a problem a few times as far as I can remember. With whatever you have left after levelling up just buy in bulk
Protip: deal damage to regain HP
that's why Dark souls 2 was filled with ambushes of 9+ enemies with no way to know when it was coming, and most of them were in cramped spaces
Why the fuck did they change it every game. I still don't understand. They got it right in DaS then they just fucked it up every other time.
DaS2 at lest has the excuse of being made by the b-team.
The grinding in Bloodborne wouldn't be an issue if you just automatically picked up the blood vials and bullets. You should only have to pick up equipment.
Bloodborne was such a great game, I miss it so much. I mean I could play it right now but it just isn't the same.
The only time I had to farm for vials was at the very beginning of the game when I was trying to rush past gascoigne and cleric beast with my arcane build. You can't afford to spend echoes on vials, so if the boss kills you, you have to kill every enemy on your way back to them or you will run out
they do. Prices go up after you beat certain bosses / begin NG+
I'll give them that, not having to manually getting it back from the storage was a good idea
But once you run out, and in an area where enemies dont drop that (eg old yhirmir) then you have to go some place else
>Dark Souls 2
Crush gems all day every day
I must be forgetting something, I don't remember anything other than the estus system in DSIII
If Dark Souls 2 didn't have Crutch-Gems, their healing system would have been the best in the Souls series.
>Heal is slower so you get punished for healing more often
>Stuck when chugging
>Phantoms cant use Estus when host gets invaded
>Invaders can't Estus at all
Demon's Souls - Healing items were consumables that you found around and dropped from enemies. There were multiple tiers of grass and you could hold up to 99 of each.
Dark Souls - You always had 5 flasks that refilled at bonfires. You could kindle bonfires to get +5 flasks whenever you rest at that specific bonfire. You could also upgrade your flasks to heal more via firekeeper souls.
Dark Souls 2- Tiered consumables everywhere AND estus flasks that you permanently increased your max amount of and upgraded. You'll be fucking swimming in life gems.
Dark Souls 3 - Only estus, but you could permanently upgrade the amount and quality. Also they had estus for mana too and you could allocate them either way.
Bloodborne - Vials are a consumable, but you can only hold 20 at once and there's only one tier that heal based on percentage rather than a set value.
>But once you run out
I've beaten the game a dozen times and never once came close to running out, even on the first time. Maybe you're just shit at videogames?
It takes 5 min to grind for grass/vials in both games.
But why even make you have to grind for them?
Vials aren't terrible but they're a worse system than the original Estus system. Why didn't they just keep using that?
Punishment for failure.
But Dark Souls 3 only has estus?
Anyway if you're running out of blood vials and grass you suck at these games.
Will Bloodborne threads ever fucking stop?
Because losing all your exp/money and all your progress from the last checkpoint isn't punishment enough?
No, your save should delete itself when you fail to be honest.
would YOU want to be the only dude that had no new ideas for the game? In the meeting they asked everyone and the one dumb fucker had to come up with something to save his job.
"umm... lets change the estus system.. "
It's a good game. Why are you so butthurt about people discussing video games?
Yep. One thing I will give to you is that they should have allowed you to sit at a lamp in order to reset the environment like in Dark Souls. Having to go through two loading screens to grind is crap.
Not enough.
It should also delete your save data for every other game on your PS4
You don't have to grind for them, you just can't keep using them like an idiot. It's called resource management.
Health is annoying but why the fuck would you expect unlimited bullets like its DMC or something?
You mean light your PS4 on fire
Are people actually complaining about having to grind for bloodvials? They drop fucking everywhere you maybe have to grind for 5min. Hell you can run through the opening area in under 5min and get at least 30 vials.
What's the problem with DS3 when you could do the same thing with easy to acquire humanity in DS1?
>than the original Estus system.
Lore reasons.
Go an try tell me how you would make an unlimited amounts of estus in BB without interfering with the lore
Or you can just equip the Echo runes and simply go to Mergo's Loft. Killing the shadows and pigs nets you something like 200k. It's what I did when I ran out after hours of Ludwig.
Because it actually punished you and forced you to get good rather than bashing your face in on enemies until you got lucky.
Its like DS2 hollowing healthbar that actually does punish you on death, because we all well fucking know that we just spend all our souls before facetanking a new area so who cares how many times we die to cheap bullshit.
Neither of these are a good argument.
If you get stuck on a hard boss you're gonna run out of vials. Then you're gonna have to grind. Yeah you can say LOL GIT GUD but making healing a consumable in a punishing action game like this adds nothing to the game but tedium.
To a skilled player it won't matter, and to a less skilled player it just includes busywork in the game when they run out. The fact that blood vials are a consumable resource adds nothing to the game overall and just makes it a chore for some players. It's not even a terrible system honestly, it's just the fact that Dark Souls had such a better healing system so them backstepping to the Demon's Souls style is stupid.
The estus system is shit, it encourages rushing through areas to get to the next bonfire and ignoring enemies. On top of that you have wayyyy too much flasks (up to 20 in Das, 13 ish in das2/3) that heal too much. Blood vials heal are precious and only heal a fraction of damage compared to estus.
Also the shit ton of healing works in des because it wasn't a bonfire based game
>interfering with the lore
They write the lore, idiot. They could make it whatever they want.
You're all missing a major reason why you don't need to guzzle blood vials.
You can heal your health by attacking.
Get hit? Go fucking berserk and take your health back.
Thing is Blood Vials are limited to 20, you can get a few more but you're sacrificing Rune space that can be used for say more HP or Stamina or whatever.
Blood Vials DONT heal you all the way back to full HP instantly and doesn't cure any status ailments.
If you're grinding for Blood Vials, you suck shit at the game. Very early on I did try farming for Blood Vials and were running out but I got good and now I never run out even on newer characters.
Also you can actually get punished for using it even from a distance.
yeah but theres no possible reason a hunter would spawn 20 blood vials out his anus on death. Undead could refill at a bonfire, but there is no blood dispenser the hunters refill at.
>invaders can use vials
Why is this allowed
>player is bad
>player runs out of vials
>players has to grind as punishment
How is this not a good argument?
The entire games are based on punishing you for your mistakes.
Being forced to grind isn't a good punishment. It's just tedium.
When you run out of vials and ahve to grind, it's not going to magically make you better at a boss, or the game at all. Punishing you for continuing to fail is not going to make you get better at the game. On the other hand, being able to continuously go back and fight the boss with no interruptions would actually help you get better, as you could continue to learn the boss' patterns and adapt accordingly.
If you're already struggling, punishing you for that is not going to help you. These GIT GUD arguments don't hold any water.
It is suppose to punish you. Plus you can regain health by attacking. Also you can always use a beckoning bell if you really need help.
Good, the souls games kept pitting invasions more and more against invaders, stop bitching casual, you can't even get invaded outside of nightmares unless you summon like a worthless casual
Das3 is impossible to invade outside of fight clubs
>Get hit? Go fucking berserk and take your health back
-> die because the boss wrecks you
-> dont die, heal for a tiny bit, still pop a vial
such a good system bro
Yeah, and tedium is punishment.
The thing is vials are a crutch and From knew that people instinctively slammed their square button after getting hit. Thus, not only are vials limited now so you can't just rely on your crutch forever, but bosses have specific attacks to punish veteran Souls players reflexive roll-and-chug.
The regain system doesn't work as well in practice as people say. If you get hit by a boss, often times you can't just run back in and go hog wild to heal back up, as you'll just be hit again. This is especially true against speedy bosses. The game is still very much wait for an opening and punish accordingly despite the faster pace
>implying I don't think healing should be disabled upon invasion period
>calling me a casual
Keep projecting, filth
You're full of fucking shit you cunt, you got like 10 fucking flasks from the start, plus 10 more with no efort.
Nioh perfected the Estus system. Bloodborne worked in the sense that it only punishes you if you suck and burn 60+ vials on single boss fights. Demon's system broke the PvP.
>can't afford to spend echoes on vials
yes you can. after you level up just spend your remaining blood/coldblood on blood vials. by midgame you will have shitloads stored up
>it's not going to magically make you better at a boss
It will make you
>realize you shouldn't panic in boss fights and spam vial uses
>actually try to learn the movesets and not rely on using vials and take your time
>you later git gud after couple attempts
The people who complain about having to grind for vials are people who suck and when confronted with the enemy the first thing they worry about is if they have enough vials instead of needing to understand the opponents moveset. They're probably the type to heal when under attack by an enemy too instead of healing when there's a window available to
But you can 100% rely on vials. By grinding for them so they'll never be a problem.
In fact, having 20 max vials is huge, you can healtank your way through so much shit. Just plop on the rune that makes them heal more and there you go. Add in the runes that let you carry more and you can heal through anything. Sure every boss will put you down to 1 vial but it doesn't really matter once you grind.
Really, I think they just went back for lore reasons. It doesn't make sense for the Hunter to have an infinite supply of vials. If they were really trying to not make players rely on healing items, they sure as fucking hell wouldn't have given you 20 max vials with the ability to increase the max. They definitely added more ways to punish healing at dumb times, but they didn't really punish healing item usage so much as they did make it more inconvenient. There's no real resource management here either, you fucking guzzle those things down and just accept the fact you'll have to run through the great bridge or a chalice dungeon if you fail.
people also act like grinding is such a huge pain in the ass. bloodborne's combat is inherently satisfying so wasting a bunch of weak ass enemies is sort of fun. i dont love doing it and i mean i guess it sucks because you arent making progress towards the end but i just dont see why grinding for vials is so terrible like some people make it out to be.
>actually try to learn the movesets and not rely on using vials and take your time
the biggest ds/bb meme of them all. Nobody fucking learns the moveset. Everyone is just dodging as soon as an attack animation shows. Once you get to running the game as fast as possible its even fuck that, now you just pick weapon X and try to cheese and/or stun the boss to death.
>there are people in this thread unironically defending grinding
>there are people in this thread that consume so many blood vials they actually have to grind for them
Sad!
>I like game
>therefore I have to defend every little thing about it
Come on now faggots. Bloodborne is great but you cannot honestly defend vials. Estus is just an objectively better, elegant solution.
That's just bullshit, I'm sorry. Having limited vials does not make you approach bosses any differently than normal, especially since you can still replenish them at any time with a bit of effort. An idiot will still be an idiot, and a cautious player will still be a cautious player. The punishment of having to waste some time grinding is not a big enough deterrent, firstly because it's not actually all that punishing, just kind of a nuisance, and especially since it only crops up once you don't get all your vials back when you die. And having 20 vials is more than enough to heal after every mistake you make, the real threat of dying is not being able to heal before you get rekt, getitng destroyed by an attack that deals a ton of damage, or getting killed for healing at a bad time. Very rarely have I lost to a boss because I ran out of healing; in fact I've played through the game 3 times now and I think it only happened once or twice. It just doesn't happen, you have enough vials to heal through most of your mistakes as long as you're also attacking the boss.
Besides if they really wanted to force you to learn the bosses you know what wouldn't be in the game? Summons.
The GIT GUD faggots are really the worst part of this fanbase.
>Nobody fucking learns the moveset.
That's how i beat the chikage hunter in the cathedral after the patch though
>play 5 minutes of a depth 5 chalice dungeon
>have enough echoes to buy 200+ ea of vials and bullets
Wow so hard
Or you could fucking git gud and not spam recoveries every 3 seconds.
Fuck the bloody crow.
Guns taking off half your health is the worst thing in Bloodborne. Fucking cheating NPCs
Or the system could be better and it could just not be a concern at all.
Also are you fucking stupid by the time you get to depth 5 dungeons blood vials are 100% not going to be a concern. By the mid-late game it's so trivial to get vials. Running out of vials mostly happens in the early~mid game since it's much harder to buy them and you're not used to the game yet so you have to use more of them.
he has really high bloodtinge and he's using the repeating pistol with bone marrow ash, you can do it too.
seriously. i think newer players are just scared to spend blood echoes on anything other than level ups or weapon upgrades.
Rallying only works if you attack immediately after getting hit. With bosses you'll just get hit again
>Running out of vials mostly happens in the early~mid game since it's much harder to buy them
>it's much harder to buy them
what? they are cheaper earlier in the game.
>Having limited vials does not make you approach bosses any differently than normal, especially since you can still replenish them at any time with a bit of effort. An idiot will still be an idiot, and a cautious player will still be a cautious player.
No
If you don't want to grind you will treat your vials as something you only want to use when you NEED it and not spam it like a retard after many failed attempts
Yeah he could go buy more but then the argument is pointless, i'm talking about broke fucks.
> And having 20 vials is more than enough to heal after every mistake you make
Why are you even bitching? I'm specifically talking about fuckers who can't fucking manage having 20 vials and blow it all halfway in a boss fight.
>The punishment of having to waste some time grinding is not a big enough deterrent
Clearly is when many people bitch about it and haven't even beaten the 2nd boss which psn trophies prove that.
obviously dont attack if you're about to get hit again. but usually after taking a hit the boss is wide open, allowing you to recover at least a little bit of your lost health
Which is why you need to refer to my second point. I've platinumed the game and at no point,even in the early stages of rolling a new character, have I had issues running out of them. Maybe you just blow dick at videogames.
>Every area in the game is designed with the idea that the player has 5 estus flasks to heal with, the player can spend resources to get more if they are having trouble
That explains why the game gets completely broken with 20 estus and infinite farmable insta fullheals.
Well, grinding flasks in Bloodborne is not that hard. Also you have 20 limit per round, that's a lot. You actually saying me that every time you fight a boss you use ALL of them each time. Are you wasting 100+ flasks for each boss?
no it doesn't there's like a 3-5 second window for it which is enough to grab a hit and back off
That's why you gotta be wary when he puts his bloody 2h chikage away for his gun, it's pretty predictable on the timing of his shots though
>but i don't like that you need to grind grass
nice troll thread
THIS IS WHY BERNIE SANDERS SHOULD HAVE MADE BLOODBORNE! HE WOULD HAVE MADE BLOODVIALS AND BULLETS FREE!
>t. low test betas ITT who can't into managing blood vials
>Only when you NEED it
Sooo whenever you get hit and one more hit will kill you? AKA business as usual?
Also, here's the thing. Estus was actually better at forcing you to use heals more wisely. If we take kindling out of the picture, 5 estus is not a lot of estus. 20 vials is a ton of healing, 5 estus is not. Even if vials heal for less, 2 vials will heal as much as one estus, if not more, meaning you still have way more healing in Bloodborne. Now yes, you CAN kindle, but if you wanted to make a system to make players use healing items wisely, you would not give them 20 healing items that restore 40% HP. That shit fucking ENCOURAGES you to spam vials.
Not only that, but you could replenish vials mid-level, whereas you could not replenish estus without going to a bonfire. So if you were doing poorly on a level, you could just hope to pick up more vials and continue on, whereas in Dark Souls you had to learn enemy patterns and such. Or just run through everything but you can do that in every game so that's completely irrelevant.
That's entirely irrelevant. Who gives a shit if you didn't have to grind? Doesn't mean the system is better than a system where no one would ever have to grind.
It's not even a big deal it's just a nuisance. A nuisance that doesn't need to be there.
The game drowns you in fucking vials and bullets, what the fuck are you talking about?
There's no such thing a managing bloovials, you use them when you get hit and the next attack will kill and that's it.
>Who gives a shit if you didn't have to grind? Doesn't mean the system is better than a system where no one would ever have to grind.
No it's not because it proves I'm better at the game. If you don't want to have to take the punishment of grinding because you suck ass at managing your vials then get better at the game. By your logic every boss should die in one hit because a system where people don't have to keep grinding on bosses is unfair and unfun to those who are shitty at video games.
Hey, spoilers:
No one cares how good you are at the game.
Fucking this.
All these git gud faggots talking about managing vials are ridiculous. What's there to manage? You heal when you're going to die. That's it. The only way I could think of "managing" them is by not using them if you're at the beginning of a fight and you're already getting destroyed.
dude like
may be dont waste all your bloodbials at bosses on your first go
just practice with it without healing and when you`re sure and got gud enough then you can confidently go into battle and use the blood vials
thats how i got through the game
practiced on the bosses by not healing first then when i git gud i go in and use vials where necessary or sometimes not even use a single one because i get the feel for the next attack instinctualy and therefore use less vials to kill them at the end
perks of this is: no need to ever grind
more time to git gud on your reflexes and the feel for the game for the next boss
tl;dr git gud in every sense of this word
>all games should be easy because it's more fair that way!
Want to know how I know you're a special snowflake Tumblr tier liberal?
if you're honestly having that much trouble with a boss, then yeah i actually recommend doing that. just go in there and focus on avoiding all its attacks and learning the tells for its moves and when you have a safe window for attack. and if you get hit just dont heal, keep going as long as you can. just keep doing this until you are confident you can go the distance with the boss.
>By your logic every boss should die in one hit because a system where people don't have to keep grinding on bosses is unfair and unfun to those who are shitty at video games.
That's not how logic works, considering I have said absolutely nothing about lowering the difficulty level of the game and just wish the healing system were a little less tedious, but okay.
Clearly critical thinking isn't your strong suit anyway. Apparently that's masturbating to how good you are at video games.
I don't know, between blood vials, rally, and the parry heal runes, I never felt like I ran out of healing in this game. There's even a heal spell item in this game I think
Who are you quoting?
That'd be a good idea if they spawned you right outside of the boss.
But having to run back to the boss every time when you're not healing to learn the boss in a game where you die in 1-3 hits sounds like a hell far worse than grinding vials honestly.
>Get summoned every once in a while.
>Spend all my blood echoes earned from that on consumables.
>Never worry about running out.
And then I did chalice dungeons and was swimming in more echoes than I knew what to do with.
dude most shortcuts cut you between 1-2 mins to get back to the boss
dont exaggerate it
It doesn't change the fact that constantly running back to the boss is even MORE tedious than grinding vials.
If you die 10 times to a boss, which you probably will if you don't heal and don't know the boss inside and out, that means 10~20 minutes of running back to the boss.
>the biggest ds/bb meme of them all. Nobody fucking learns the moveset. Everyone is just dodging as soon as an attack animation shows. Once you get to running the game as fast as possible its even fuck that, now you just pick weapon X and try to cheese and/or stun the boss to death.
Its actually ridiculous how true this
I've been watching a shit ton of people play BB recently on twitch and the overwhelming majority do exactly this, they just mash the shit out of their dodge button the second the boss starts doing ANYTHING. The most amazing part is how they can still usually take a boss down in about 10 tries or less doing this unless its something ridiculous like Orphan of course.
I completely understand now why these people act amazed when you tell them you got the majority of bosses on first or second try, the concept of backing off and just watching the bosses moveset for like 20 seconds is completely unheard of and they literally just run at it mashing vials and dodge until rng blesses them.
well yeahhh ... if you`re that fucking terrible to die that much and not because of silly mistakes, then you might as well not play these kind of games
i cant really think of any bosses in bloodborne that have a runback where you can't just run/roll past all enemies. if you open up all shortcuts it really shouldnt be a problem. its good practice.
To be fair most of the enemies are autistic doggos covered in toiletpaper, jumping all over the place
But that logic applies to human bosses tho
this i thought i was the only one that literally on ymy first go with bosses just took a step back and observed the movesets of the boss from their short range attack hitbox to mid range attack hitbox to long range attack hitbox and i would attack when i felt confident that i could dodge them
>needing to grind grass/vials
Maybe in the first area, after that DeS and BB throw so many at you that it's a bit overpowered.