So, like, how is this even legal anyway?

So, like, how is this even legal anyway?

> Go into a casino.
> Ask to see their gambling license.
> "Oh, no, user, we're not gambling, look!"
> Puts $1 into a slot machine, 1 penny rolls out.
> See! You always get something, so, it's not gambling.

Other urls found in this thread:

dw.com/en/oracle-loses-court-fight-over-software-resale-rules/a-16069323
forbes.com/sites/gregvoakes/2012/07/03/european-courts-rule-in-favor-of-consumers-reselling-downloaded-games/#6abee4822e55
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling?wprov=sfla1
zillo7.itch.io/tier-1
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Gambling implies that you can win money. Game items are not money.

So, if you put a dollar into a machine, and anything from a plastic token to a rolex can come out, it's not gambling?

Yup.

Are we done here?

/thread

As long as it's a virtual Rolex that doesn't have any real world value (Valve doesn't buy CSGO skins off you for example) yup. Sup Forums can't into analogies once again.

So says the law.

You can't say Kinder Eggs are illegal because the puzzle you got inside is "worth" more or less than any other Kinder Egg toy. This follows the exact same pattern: you bought the chance of obtaining a variety of things that boil down to the same monetary value: in this case, zero.

Loot boxes and their contents are pulled from a zero-cost (for the distributor), endless supply and have literally no monetary value. They can't be traded, refunded or removed from an inventory. No trading can be done that includes the item themselves in any way, shape or form.

Because if you go and work in the kitchen for an hour you get one free pull
Or something like that

If it's traded for real money it has got real world value.

Not if you can't ever get that money out.

It can't be traded though. Are you really that desperate to keep this thread rolling?

And they will be called gashapon machines.

Wow, I did not know you were the literal law, retard.
Imagine this
>kiddo puts one currency into one of those toy in ball dispensers
>some retarded bouncy ball comes out
>kiddo sells it to a friend for two currency
>kiddo and toy machine maker get arrested for gambling

> They've never sold an account on a video game before.

See:And selling accounts is against TOS of any service ever that I can think of. If they catch you they ban/delete the account.

Why do you assume I'm fine with that practice?

>Stretching... so.... far....!

ecksdee

> He thinks a video game ToS trumps the right to resell your own property.

xD

It's not your property. It's a piece of code that you've been licensed to execute. Why do we still have to have this conversation?

>he doesn't know the virtual items and such aren't your property
lmao
Literal trolling or 14

but it's not your property. you're renting it.

It's legal because nobody has gone after them yet. Give it some time. It's literally gambling. No matter how much the drones grit their teeth and cover their ears.

The only way a game is considered gambling is if you win money directly, or if you win a token that can be given to the hosting organization for money. An exception is arcades; you win tickets but you cannot trade them for cash, trinkets only.

Do you guys live in North Korea or something?

No seriously. Why would you assume I'm fine with kids gambling? I'm not. Those machines you mentioned are problematic in of themselves, but not a large problem since they hardly exist anymore, at least as far as I see. But gacha games are literally gambling and far too common.

You wavered that right when you agreed to the ToS.

try reading the EULA next time

>literally out of arguments, the post
Glad we had this conversation, now back to leDITT you go.

ever read the terms that pop up on every game you install?

>The only way a game is considered gambling is if you win money directly
According to the law yes, which I'm saying is outdated.

Hello OP.

Pretty low on the totem pole while fantasy football's still going strong.

Shiller no shilling! Shiller no shilling!

Shut the fuck up nigger. Nobody even cares enough about your shitty secondary trolling to even construct a decent reply to this. Go shit in your own eyes.

>its a Blizzcucks defend getting cucked for skins because muh waifu thread

Define gambling then.

dw.com/en/oracle-loses-court-fight-over-software-resale-rules/a-16069323

Not quite, user. In the western world, we actually have consumer rights.

Because lootboxes are limited to Overwatch. Right. They're years late to the party.

Form of transaction where the object of sale is determined by chance.

>implying I'm not European
You know why Oracle lost? Because there's already an European law that states you can download programs from any source if you already paid for a license.
Example because your dumb ass won't get it:
>have a game on disc
>don't have a cd-drive
>torrent the game and play
>fully legal because you already have a license (your purchase of the disc)
Yawn. Next bait please.

You can trade Kinder Egg toys.
Still not gambling.

No it's not legal because you're sending data to people without the license.

forbes.com/sites/gregvoakes/2012/07/03/european-courts-rule-in-favor-of-consumers-reselling-downloaded-games/#6abee4822e55

If you say so, user.

You're both wrong, you know? Gambling is defined by the act of wagering. This isn't gambling because there is no outcome where I keep my money.

Also, your game is stupid and I hate you.

torrents aren't exclusively illegal

yes its legal to re-sell games keys
but you dont own the product itself, especially if its an in-game item

>linking Forbes
top kek
That's the problem of the people who are illegally downloading. You can't enforce that unless you don't seed it.

Sorry OP but

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling?wprov=sfla1

You don't wager money, or get more money, from Overwatch skins. Its not legal tender. Nor can you sell it

Now, if it was a slot machine where you ecpect more legal tender out of the machine, now THAT is gambling.

>This isn't gambling because there is no outcome where I keep my money.
Irrelevant. The outcome of the transaction in these game models are based on chance. It's literally a game of chance involving money. Repeat the last sentence loud and say that that is not gambling.

Which overwatch gamekey is worth more, one with all the skins unlocked, or one without?

You're absolutely right, OP.

China spotted this, so they rolled out a new law in DEC 2016:

"2.6 ...Online game publishers shall promptly publicly announce information about the name, property, content, quantity, and draw/forge probability of all virtual items and services that can be drawn/forge on the official website or a dedicated draw probability webpage of the game. The information on draw probability shall be true and effective."

Go China. For the rest of us, the translated drop rates for Common, Rare, Epic and Legendary is approximately 58.2%, 31.7%, 7.55% and 2.55%.

Gamers can cash out using third party sites. This is a huge problem for Valve and they've been trying to crack down on it, because if they don't then states have a good basis for claiming that Valve is defacto running a gambling operation.

This all begins and ends with Valve's reluctance to police their own item markets.

I agree it isnt "Gambling" by the law definition, but i still disagree with them very aggressive marketing towards children without idea of how much money is worth. (i mean, it wouldnt be necessary if parents raised their children properly, but that is rare now a days)

Shouldnt be a law that regulates virtual microtransactions for underage people?

You can trade and re-sell skins from Valve games.

>missing the point this hard
Might want to actually read the thread then, you dumb niggerdick.

So China actually knows fully how much % there is for every item in Overwatch?

>Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money and/or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize.
>all these people saying it's not gambling

> China has better consumer rights for video games than the west.

Wow, that's pretty fucking pathetic, honestly.

>Paying money for Lootboxes in any game
It's a way to get sillyheads to give even more money, it's like the lottery.

>Shouldnt be a law that regulates virtual microtransactions for underage people?
no. parents should do their job of raising them properly

China knows this about any game that uses mechanics like that or the game gets b&. Based China.
> of money or something of value
According to the law, pixels don't have value. Literally what has been said the entire thread. This is literally the only reason. Fucking hell, some more moderation on this board wouldn't hurt.

>Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money and/or material goods.
How is that not applicable here? It says material but we don't have currency based on material goods anymore, it's literally virtual. So excluding gacha games from falling under gambling is clearly a case of the law not catching up to new developments.

Again,
>game of chance involving money
That's the problem.

>third party
>valve
In valve's case you can cash out using the steam marketplace.

>Put quarter into gumball machine
>Fucking purple one rolls out

What a load of shit. This should be illegal.

thats subjective
individual items have no assigned monetary value

That's the way it works in many areas, including japan, although the system is different.

You get pachinko balls or slot machine (pachislo) tokens which you then spend on the game. You either lose money or win more tokens, but at the end you can't exchange them back for cash. Instead, you exchange them for goods: a chocolate bar, stuffed animal, etc...

And then right around the corner is a guy willing to pay you an absurd amount of money for that exact stuffed animal or whatever.

Japan for their part is moving to properly legalize gambling to prevent this whole stupid system.

The only reason video game gambling isn't banned yet is because lawmakers are old and don't really know about it.

It will be banned within 5 years

>Irrelevant.

It really isn't. Gambling involves putting up collateral. Paying to play a game -- even when you don't know what prize you'll receive -- is not gambling by definition.

>It's literally a game of chance involving money.

You've just defined Yahtzee as gambling, because it 'involved' money when I paid to purchase it.

China made the shitty Warcraft movie one of the most profitable video game movies of all time. China is filled with retards.

Do you know the peppercorn principle?

Would almost be as effective as age gates on porn sites, top kek.
Link me to the "Deposit all your Steam Credits onto your Bank Account" page then.

Yeah, it's the law.

Pretty much, it means that you have a chance of getting a legendary every 40 boxes (actually 2000/51, which is 39.2 something).

However, you should also factor in a pity timer of 19 boxes between legendaries, or 10 boxes between epics. I don't really know how the math works with adding the pity timers.

>Pixels don't have value

Their value is the money put in. You're literally playing a slot machine with the prize being a picture on a screen. It's gambling.

It is not really gambling if you are getting an item that is the same perceived value/worth as your money even if that item is random. Real gambling is if it primarily involves stakes, odd or luck and not every "turn" will mean you will get something in return.

Your response would probably something like about the %chance to get this higher item and my response would be to compare it with buying fries. Sometimes you get more fries than normal but even if you get the average number of fries, you still get fries.

What if I don't agree to the ToS? Just because I click "I Agree" doesn't mean I do. I just want to play the game

Parents that don't raise their children to appreciate money deserve everything that happens to them.

>he didn't like the warcraft movie

looks like the only retard here is you
go back to watching 50 shades darker and your other cuck films

>Just because I click "I Agree" doesn't mean I do.

More doublethink than a Trump voter right now

>I agree it isnt "Gambling" by the law definition, but

Then we're done here.

Afaik, china law is still in the making and the odds arent perfect in the image. 500 is relativelly small to measure the hundreds of %.

>Their value is the money put in.
loooool
This painting is valued at €78,56 because that's how much the paint cost.

Are you telling me you buy bread with virtual money?

That you don"t even have coins?

In games like CSGO you could argue that it is gambling but not in Overwatch.

terrible analogy.

A better analogy is a vending machine that dispenses Kinder eggs or wonderballs.

You're buying kinder eggs not gambling for them. Then each kinder egg has a random chance to have something insider. This is clearly labeled on the package.

So yeah not gambling at all. You got exactly what you paid for. what you paid for was lootboxes.

>You've just defined Yahtzee as gambling, because it 'involved' money when I paid to purchase it.
If the yahtzee box had X percent chance of containing UNO instead then yes that would be gambling and your analogy would've made sense.

>Paying to play a game -- even when you don't know what prize you'll receive -- is not gambling by definition.
But this is a game of chance, a roll of a dice, a spin of a slot machine, where you pay money for a chance to win something with more worth than you put in.

Oh, so that's why Kinder Eggs are forbidden in USA?

Ehh, here's one with double the sample size, same results. You still get about 1 legendary for every 10 boxes.

The value of this pile of trash is €893,45 because that's how much the materials cost.

trash > painting

I love retards on Sup Forums. I actually don't please kill this board

>So, like, how is this even legal anyway?
It's a new market, so there's no legislation for it yet and it takes a ridiculous amount of time to adapt existing laws to new stuff like that.

>Are you telling me you buy bread with virtual money?
I mostly use bank cards yes.
>That you don"t even have coins?
Sure, but the coins represent virtual currency, not the other way around.

And how are they able to do those microtransactions?

This doesn't go over the phone bill, they need to have either a credit card or bank card even if they use alternative means like paypal, which they shouldn't access to if their parents aren't completely retarded.

what game?

No the precedents already exist as described in the thread.

Once again people, you do not need to purchase this stuff, and it will make a bigger statement if you simply STOP.

It's not an analogy. Yahtzee is literally a game of chance that I had to purchase. My playing it 'involved' money.

The real problem here is that you have a weak grasp of the English language. Gambling involves making a wager. You have to put up collateral for it to be gambling. You do not do that when you purchase a box with a toy in it. I really can't make it any more clear.

It doesn't matter whats in the box, because you bought it. You didn't gamble for it. You bought it.

Steam needs tax info if you earn enough wallet money, doesn't that hint at the government considering it real money?

Only if you live in a cucked society where someone else's ignorance is as good as your knowledge, and has the same voting power.

When almost every member of your government has a science or engineering degree, sensible things happen quite quickly.

>what you paid for was lootboxes.
The problem is that you're not looking at the transaction in whole, but rather each individual part. If done the same for casinos then you'd come up with the same conclusion. Look:
>first you buy tokens, no gambling here everyone knows what you get
>then you play games with tokens, you get what you pay for, no gambling here either
>game gives some random reward
>finally you go and sell your tokens for money, no gambling here either, they get what they pay for namely your tokens.
So casinos are just like kinder eggs and should be legal.

Just say you're 14, young and impressionable and don't know how the law works next time.

Video games are not your property. You probably voted for Trump and think that's what he's for when literally it's the exact opposite - you are paying for the access of code that the ToS specifies can be revoked, changed, priced or altered at any time. You merely are issued a license for any digital content. It's why Netflix can change their movie catalog anytime they want and not have to tell you shit. Paying for something doesn't mean you own it.


You're probably retarded though, so zero chance of any of this sinking in.

You can't buy lootboxes without a credit card
And you can't get a credit card unless you're somewhat grown up.

zillo7.itch.io/tier-1