Paper Mario

Now that the dust has settled, were they really THAT bad?

Nope.

>because it's different, it's automatically bad
sticker star was bad because it was a terrible game not because it was different. I thoroughly enjoyed super paper mario despite it being the most radically different of the paper mario games because the gameplay was still fun and the story was full of charming and enjoyable characters/set pieces. With Sticker Star all we got literally no story and a battle system where the optimal strategy was never to engage in battle in the first place because you have no reason to.
Never player Color Splash but I assume it's more of the same

>Never player Color Splash but I assume it's more of the same.

Never change faggots. The game wasn't a master piece but still miles better than Sticker Star.

Color Splash was really good, but that's probably just because I saw all the hate and assumed it was going to be garbage. Never played Sticker Star but I've never heard anyone say anything good about it, and the hate goes further than >"but it's not TTYD!!!!"

Sticker Star was mediocre.

Color Splash was alright. Not good, not great. It restored some of the lost spark, about as good as it could be with the self-imposed limitations.

I'd be fine if they go on to make Paper Mario more of an "adventure game" but the turn based battle system has got to fucking go. It feels more jarring than ever and the only reason it exists is to inexplicably remind us of it's RPG roots even though they want to clearly get away from it.

They aren't the worst games in the world. People hate them because they stripped out a lot of the good from the first two games and Nintendo seems hellbent to force the series to go in a direction nobody fucking wants.

Were PM/TTYD really RPGs?

Didn't play SS or Color Splash, what exactly differs them besides the lack of companions?

I always saw TTYD as an Adventure game with some damn good writing.

Yes

Next question

Yes, they were bad.

>"I really don't see the mindset of; because it's different, it's automatically bad"
>Because its different, it's automatically good

Mongoloids like this make my blood boil.

>Were PM/TTYD really RPGs?
Yes. My any reasonable definition

No idea about CS but SS is insultingly bad all on its own

Sticker Star? Yes.

Color Splash? No.

Like, I can understand making your attack actions a limited resource, that's an interesting idea, but also removing an exp system and making coins not that useful so random encounters get you very little besides wasting your stickers seemed a little much.
Do one or the other, but not both.

> The game wasn't a master piece but still miles better than Sticker Star.
that isn't really saying anything

Color Splash was a step in the right direction

They could still do better tho

yeah whatever dude learn to accept different things
changes aren't bad

>removing an exp system and making coins not that useful

Why does everybody complain about this in Paper Mario, but not in Zelda?

I'm not defending it, I wish Zelda would implement something closer to what was removed from Paper Mario, but it baffles me how people are looking at Breath of the Wild as something new and innovative.

It looks like No Man's Sky in terms of things to do, with as much reward and as convincing combat.

What the fuck is wrong with Nintendo.

Sticker Star was legitimately bad.
Color Splash was an improvement, but still a mixed bag.

FP accomplishes that, and better.

Because each swing of Link's sword isn't represented by a sticker of which you can run out of.
Didn't I just say one or the other not both?

>Why does everybody complain about this in Paper Mario, but not in Zelda?

1. Swinging a sword in Zelda doesn't cost you anything. You press a button, and you're not using a "sword attack" card.

2. Combat in Zelda isn't turn-based, and doesn't take you out of the overworld when you fight. In Color Splash and Sticker Star, you've got all the set up of a standard turn-based RPG, but none of the reward mechanics.

>Because each swing of Link's sword isn't represented by a sticker of which you can run out

It actually is in BotW, that is why it's so funny.

Yes. They were that bad and then some.
/thread

Are you comparing degrading weapons in an action game to card resources in a turn-based game?

Do you know how ludicrous that is?

>Swinging a sword in Zelda doesn't cost you anything

Costs you weapon durability. Not much reward to fighting trash mobs either, unless you somehow enjoy the combat which is as mindless as Sticker Splash.

No, tell me how ludicrous it is.

I only played Color Splash but yes. There's so much wrong with this game I don't even know where to begin. Granted I did enjoy the game early on before it became a massive chore to play.

When did i say that change was bad? I literally just praised super paper mario for being the most different game in the series and still managing to be fun.
Not all changes are bad, and not all changes are good. It's pretty simple

It's ludicrous!

1. Not for the vast majority of the franchise, unless you count the Giant Knife in OoT. We don't know if this is a considerable problem yet in BotW, since it isn't fucking out yet.

2. Weapons losing durability is something countless action games and RPGs incorporate. The difference here is that the root of gameplay is skill-based. You press a button, and swing a sword. Like how in a shooter, you lose ammunition when you fire a pistol.

In Sticker Star and Color Splash, it's a turn, menu-based system. The most skill you can garner is knowing what cards work better on what enemies.

It is, unless you think Sticker Star's system is comparable to having ammo in guns in a shooter.

I hear Color Splash is at least sort of interesting.
I'll continue holding out hoping some day I can buy a discount with my nintendo, finally giving my coins some use for once in their life.

Yes it was that bad.
I don't care if Color Splash is better than Sticker Star. Its still bad.

I'd say you might as well just pirate it and get it over with.

Sticker star was mediocre. Color splash fixed a lot of the issues of sticker star, and is fucking beautiful, but still wasn't like the paper marios of old. Still, I was able to enjoy Color splash, 100%'d it.

I think the biggest improvement has to be the switch to cards from stickers (the latter of which varied in size based on power, cards are uniform even if super strong), and the change to the battle spinner, as roulette to use more than one sticker in a turn in sticker star was bullshit, but paying a bit of coins to get 1 extra card each turn in color splash makes it so you really have a hard time running out of good ones to use

I can't help but praise Miyamoto for all he has done in the past but they should have forced him into retirement 10 years ago.

Color Splash had some care put into it, although the combat was still fucking garbage

Sticker Star is truly, on every level, Shitter Star

>BUT MIYAMOTO
>Shiggy doesn't even fucking like Toad

Color Splash was a good game that was absolutely ruined by the battle system

Sticker Star was bad and also made worse by the battle system

I just want my coins to have value.

>100%'d it
OK, how on earth did you get all the enemy cards? By the end of the game I missed like 40% of them.

Color Splash is objectively a delight to play, and even does some things better than the first 2 games, but still has some glaring issues.

Oh, and color splash had awesome music, and fixed the issue of pretty much having to guess what thing cards to bring to encounters. They hit you over the head with it pretty hard, but at the cost of making those thing items completely essential

>ARE YOU BAD TO THE BONE?

This
It was one of the three Wii U games I hadn't played that I decided to pirate
and it was pretty boring
looked pretty, but boring

>mfw I lost my first battle against Lemmy because I used the Thing cards in the wrong order

Sticker Star was horrendous, but Color Splash looked like they sort of started to know what they were doing.

Still didn't buy Color Splash, though.

I pirated Color Splash on my hacked Wii U. After finishing it I replayed TTYD because I needed to wash the taste of shit out of my mouth.

...

>started learning Croatian
>find out "kino" is the Croatian word for "movie theatre"

Color Splash is a flick, Shitter Star goes beyond a flick and becomes sandler

Yes, they were.

>Color Splash is objectively a delight to play

Not with that abhorrent excuse of a combat system it isn't.

The combat system is fun if you
>never go into a level with more than 20 cards
>never use Thing cards except for when the plot demands it
>defeat every single enemy
It still has some problems besides that, don't get me wrong, but it can get pretty fun.

>The combat system is fun if you intentionally gimp yourself
that means by default it's terrible

Yet the first 2 Paper Mario games had that stipulation too.
>the game is fun if you don't use Danger Mario
>...or spam Star attacks
>...or use Power Bounce
>...or use Stone Caps/Repel Gels

the first two paper marios had more going than just the combat

The first 2 games had fully fleshed out, connected worlds with unique NPCs, a lot of sidequests, and more developed (though still relatively simplistic) stories where they could experiment with new allies/villains instead of dragging out the Koopalings.

Color Splash looking nice and desperately making every other line of dialogue an attempt at a 4th wall breaking joke doesn't come close.

inb4 that one autist who starts dumping his screencaps anytime someone shit talks Color Splash.
Fucker is as bad as XV-kun.

>trying to make the first 2 games look worse by mentioning all the different ways you could customize Mario himself to play the game in unique ways while the solution for CS is just having less cards

come on, cody
I know you're lurking the thread too

Nice goalpost moving. We already established that Color Splash did a lot of things well besides the combat. Don't change the topic now.

>Nice goalpost moving
I'm not the one who brought up two other games with significantly different combat to defend one with a streamlined variant.

They were incredibly bland and mediocre, so much in fact that it makes it worse than actually being bad games.

Haven't gotten to color splash but sticker star was mediocre. Like 4 or 5 outta 10. Nice visuals and music are about as nice as I can say of it. It's a chore to play, and frankly the game punishes you for trying to play combat anyway. The "puzzle" system is just kinda annoying busy work in my opinion. Like bowser has like 5 puzzles to him, when every other boss maybe had 1. Shit's annoying.

>two other games
Which are relevant to this discussion as Color Splash's entire critique is always, without fail, compared to the first 2 games.

You know what makes it more fun? Avoiding combat entirely because you're showered with respawning cards and like a billion ways to make bank thanks to tiny levels and Ro Sham Bo.

Speaking of Ro Sham Bo, fuck Ro Sham Bo. What blatant padding.

>Which are relevant to this discussion
so no goalposts were moved

The goalposts were moved because originally the discussion was about the combat system. The first two games were related to that discussion (about the combat system). YOU moved the goalposts to say
>W-W-WELL SO WHAT IF THE COMBAT ISN'T TOTALLY BAD? THE GAME HAS OTHER BAD THINGS HAH!

>The combat system is fun if you sit down and discard handfuls of cards
>implying that's not what most people do
>implying that doesn't become a chore when you have to discard new cards since now you get useless shit like Goomba cards

Levels like Mossrock Theatre are fun if you intentionally beat every enemy since the enemies in that level are interesting.

Using enemy cards strategically is part of the fun.

just dump the screencaps already

>Using enemy cards strategically
>flick it
>they do one attack or jack shit if it's a boss
I'd rather look at what hammer card with overpowered splash damage to utilize in the event that I get stuck in a mindless random encounter. The "strategy" only comes in to play during boss fights and even then you have to do a specific series of actions.

They also take the next hit(s) for you.

Pretty useless since your priority in Color Splash is to get through fights as quickly as possible. That crappy Shy Guy could have been actual damage to what you're fighting.

>your priority in Color Splash is to get through fights as quickly as possible
or
you know
not fight until you're required

if you haven't played paper mario or thousand year door, no they're not bad, but they aren't comparable to the two quality wise.

It's like going from being able to swing your Keyblade freely in Kingdom Hearts to requiring sets of cards just to swing your Keyblade once in Chain of Memories and if you run out of cards you can't do anything at all.

Yeah, iirc, nobody ever said what you should bring to bowser's huge battle, and some of the solutions are questionable.
>Bowser enters fireball spirit stage
>You have to use an ICE thing to FREEZE a living fireball, and then a WIND thing to make the frozen fireballs all clonk him on the head!

Color splash goes out of its way to tell you what you need, if in obvious allusions to boss being invincible without 'something that could do this'. On top of that, there's a guy that literally say you 'will soon need a thing that does...' as you progress through the game.

Yeah, Ro Sham Bo was stupid.

If you don't fight, how will you ever level up your hammer to utilize more paint you don't really need since everything cries refills and you are repeatedly given pre-painted attacks/you can easily purchase pre-painted ones at the store?

Sticker Stat was adequate.

Only got 15 minutes into Color Splash

>hold and swipe these tedious touchpad movements over and over again just to battle rpg mooks
So fucking slow holy fuck

>customizing Mario in many different ways is exactly the same as having to gimp yourself

This is why people despise fanboys. You retards will do and say anything no matter how idiotic in order to defend something and lash out against everything else.

>"Look, Sonic 2006 had an abysmal plot, furry love story, horrible loading times, bugs and glitches out the ass, and it wasn't even finished."
>"YEAH, WELL, UNLEASHED HAD THE WEREHOG THAT'S A THOUSAND TIMES WORSE SONIC 2006 IS AWESOME I WIN!!"

TTYD was mediocre anyway. PM and Super were much better.

>It's like [...] Kingdom Hearts
Wow, you're right, that's fucking terrible.

>get sick of card shit
>Sup Forums insists it gets better when you switch the control scheme
>it doesn't
shitter star didn't make me apply adhesive to my fucking attacks every single time

Unleashed IS shit though. It's on the same level with 06 and Heroes, no question.

Super was more mediocre or bad than good, though. Bitlands was more or less the only good chapter.

It amazes me that there's one autist on this board who religiously defends Color Splash and tries to sugarcoat all of its flaws like this.
Like, of all the games to desperately defend, why this piece of trash?

I already didn't enjoy TTYD because the entire game consistend of backtracking. All sidequests outside the harbor were absolute garbage because they were all just backtracking in the worst sense too. There was absolutely nothing interesting in any of the levels so that made it much worse and more painful.

And almost any chapter was full of backtracking. The chapter with the ghost was conceptually a great idea but the entire chapter was literally backtracking.

>Super
I don't get the love for Super.
The platforming is barebones as fuck thanks to the empty worlds and the combat just makes me want to be fighting a boss in an actual platformer. Is it the story?

color splash has more backtracking than TTYD

Honestly, I enjoy TTYD a little less each time I replay it. I'll never get tired of the first game, though.
I figured he meant he didn't enjoy this because he already hated the backtracking in a previous game.

I didn't play anything after TTYD. I don't really think any of the Mario RPGs are really that good except for the original Paper Mario.

It's mostly the story. It's a mediocre platformer, but the story and characterization have enough charm that I can tolerate the mediocrity.

it's mostly the story.


I wonder if you could salvage nu-paper mario by going the kingdom hearts chain of memories/ megaman exe action route. You can always run around and jump but you also make a (permanent) deck of actions that you somehow cycle through.

Im not mad they aren't rpgs anymore, I thought SPM was good enough. I'm mad the quality of the writing and character has been going down after TTYD and CS barely captures what made the first Paper Mario games good

They should be free to experiment mechanically, but for fuck sakes make sure the charm is still there

Color Splash was great

>make sure the charm is still there
BUT THE TOADS ARE GOING "HAHA THIS GAME IS TEARABLE, SUCK MY PAPER CUT BUTTHOLE" AND "WOW, MARIO, BOWSER REALLY CRINKLES MY 2PLY GET IT US PAPERS"

THE CHARM IS THERE, YOU JUST HATE EVERYTHING

To add on to that example, the cards don't come back after the battle either, you have to get a set of brand new cards for every battle and that's why Sticker Star sucks.

This was the last major exclusive to come out on the Wii U. I think it epitomizes a lot of the system as a whole.

How and why is it as bad as the absolute worst Sonic game in history, and how is Heroes as bad as 06?