Why is Nobunaga always depicted as a bad guy? He's always either evil, evil and working with demons...

Why is Nobunaga always depicted as a bad guy? He's always either evil, evil and working with demons, or he himself is a literal demon. Nioh got me in the mood for more Samurai shit so I began playing Onimusha for the first time, and oh hey here's demonic Nobunaga again.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow
youtube.com/watch?v=c3xvcn-gDNM
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Nobunaga's Ambition?

maybe you should play more than one game with Nobunaga in it before drawing such conclusions.

that being said, the man was a warlord and is most famous for how many lands he conquered and battles he won. so to use that character as a big scary guy is not so confusing. he was also rather brutal in that he made a habit of not showing mercy to his enemies.

I may have only played Nioh and Onimusha but he's been depicted as evil in a number of manga and movies too, this is a well known fact that I decided to look up last night after playing Onimisha, and there are entire articles on it.

"Nobunaga appears frequently within fiction and continues to be portrayed in many other anime, manga, video games, and cinematic films. Many depictions show him as villainous or even demonic in nature, though some portray him in a more positive light."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga

Meant to reply to you.

He was an asshole because he wanted to get shit done.
There are many instances where he didn't care about honor or appearing like a good person which makes it easy to portray him as a demon

Because he did a lot of evil shit, like burning monks that were opposing him in their own temples while giving the orders to kill anyone who manages to get out. Nobunaga was the very definition of ruthless.

This guy looks just like my dad, but we aren't even Asian.

There was that time he slaughtered a shite ton of warrior monks

Hes an eccentric dick.
If killing people not involved isnt a huge ass dick move i dont know what is.

Nobunaga is often painted as a villain because the dude was basically an honorary ganjin.

He had no problem breaking a lot of japanese traditions, which is also why he was so damn successful, and hated.

He's a good guy until he gets possessed in Sengoku Rance.

>the man was a warlord and is most famous for how many lands he conquered and battles he won. so to use that character as a big scary guy is not so confusing. he was also rather brutal in that he made a habit of not showing mercy to his enemies.
Same can be said for Hideyoshi and Ieyasu

Wasn't he a westaboo? That would explain japs of his time hating on him which kinda carried over to the future in a way.

Historically, conquerors did not fuck around. They would raze shit to the ground, slaughter entire populations, kill the defenseless and all sorts of things people deem evil just to get their point across or to achieve their dreams. People act like modern society is shit but even in the worst shitholes of our world, nothing compared to the ridiculous lives people held back during the ages where wars were waged virtually all the time.

He's portrayed as evil in a ton of video games, animu and mango and also movies, he is perhaps one of the most vilified figures in history if you go by his portrayal in fiction

He wuz a gud boy.

Matchlock rifles fascinated him, yes

Think the difference is that Ieyasu actually succeeded and formed the shogunate which achieved a sense of peace and order for the entirety of the country while the entire reign of Nobunaga and Hideyoshi were just filled with nothing but war.

Yeah if you pretend anime and manga depictions were true you would think Nobunaga was worse than Hitler

Well, we can't say if Nobunaga's unified Japan would've been different, considering he got killed before he got to realize it

He was the prime destroyer of the old order of Japan.

Well yeah, by that i meant that i remember something about him not going full on "westerners are bad because they're from the west" thing. Not saying he was jerking off on broadswords although who knows.

Unless Hitler summoned literal demons and ripped across the space time continuum to conquer the future at the same time its not hard to be worse.

Yeah, both the others could have probably done the same but history is written by victors and Ieyasu is a winner.

We wuz nobuniggas

Well there is always Persona 2

Because he was a genius and started using guns to fuck over those muh honor, muh blade niggas left and right.

OP here. On the topic of Onimusha, is the third one worth playing? Why is Jean Reno on the cover and why does it have missions in the modern day? I already own 1 and 2.

Cao Cao>Oda

The only things Hitler did wrong was starting the war before Italy was ready and invading France rather than pushing for a National Socialist revolution there, and Nobunaga was far worse.

>m-m-muh jews
Nothing that happened during WW2 can even compare to what the muslims did in India or to the late dynastic and inter-dynasty periods in China, especially from the middle of the 19th century.


People who use Hitler as any metric for violence or """""""""""""evil""""""""""" are illiterate idiots.

He brought gun into the war.

Is Nogunaga the pinnacle of famous historical figures in japan?
Like how we have, say, Lincoln or George Washington or something they have Nobunaga?
He seems to appear and be a big force in a lot of Japanese media.
I don't really know anything about him or peoples perception of him other than he won a lot of battles so I'm sort of curious.

basically the protag and Reno exchange place through time and Reno ends up in medieval Japan while our rice farmer fights baddies in modern France

Nobunaga, Hideyoshi and Ieyasu are the 3 big

All of them wanted to unite Japan

Wow, really? Is it good?

him and the other two clowns are seen as the forefathers of modern unified Japan

>Why is Jean Reno on the cover

There was a dispute with one of the directors and Jean Reno so they made a parody of his likeness in the game. Jean Reno eventually found out about this and tried to sue Capcom but was unsuccessful in it.

The Jean Reno character in the game is funny as fuck.

>Why is Nobunaga always depicted as a bad guy?
He isn't, Nobunaga is often depicted as a controversial villain, only a few games ride the Dairokuten Mahou meme hard, in the majority of the games he's a charismatic and slightly cartoonish villainous figure, in many manga Nobunaga is viewed as some kind of pioneer too, if not even some weird kind of martyr sometimes.
The man himself wasn't really any worse than most other daimyo of the time in terms of violence, he was the one who started the process of unification of Japan and was a fervent westaboo to the point that he bought armors, swords, clocks, guns, clothes, whatever he could find really, he was some kind of dandy in a way and there are numerous records about his eccentric personality.

Nobunaga the man is what created Nobunaga the character, many people portray the latter, most people make a mix of the two.

In terms of politics and philosophy, Nobunaga is a very interesting figure in the japanese panorama, a shame not many people bother talking about it in most games, manga have it a bit better though.

He's the most famous who's portrayed as evil incarnate but they also reference Tokugawa and Hideyoshi a lot

Fuck even in Castlevania they started to draw Dracula like Nobunaga

Yeah, on par with the previous games really.

Nobunaga seemed like a bro to those who were loyal to him

Also, not securing Spain's participation and invading Stalingrad instead of Moscow.

Because he unified Japan by shooting muh proud samurai on the chest with his retardedly small army of rifle users.

Well the rest political figures were puppets or fools.
Also he was before banzai and puppetemperors of meiji-era so no connection to pearl harbor or bombing. So nobody would care in a political way.

You can definitely make the argument that Cao Cao was a more moral man than Nobunaga and some similarly progressive policies, especially in terms of public education. Not sure how comparable their military conquests are. Nobunaga came from a less powerful position and Okehazama might be a more impressive success than Guandu. Cao Cao never had any events as huge as Takeda and Uesugi conveniently dying going for him, he had a hard life
He was indeed notable for his focus on meritocracy rather than just rewarding those of noble birth.

Ieyasu was a dick

Didn't he actively persecute and threaten the daimyou who converted to Christianity?

He failed to kill mikado and got killed by mikado himself.

He was so bro that he almost beaten to death his most powerful vassal to whom he made the most powerful himself. And you know where that led.

He liked things of the "foreign devils" so he became a demon for that.

Why didn't Hitler open a book about the Napoleonic wars before making the exact same mistakes that cost Napoleon his empire ?
Furthermore why did he decide to finally back Japan despite at first courting the Kuomintang during the initial stages of the Japanese invasion ?

Honestly I don't get the big fuss about Hitler, he was not some sort of messiah as the stormweenies pretend but he wasn't that bad of a guy as the leftists and the kike pretend either.
Funny because in 1000 years the only thing he will be remembered as is the Jewish messiah that unleashed the messianic times and the recreation of the greater Israel.

Not just Nobunaga either I've seen the Taira clan depicted as evil demons too

civilization 5? shogun 2?

"no"

Those monks fucking asked for it

Whyre you lying on the internet?

People like to disdain success. Why do you think him and cao cao get so much flak. Nobunaga almost conquered all of japan and he started from owari which was small as hell, cao cao came from a eunuch family and made cao-wei and rose to princedom. People hate success and Sup Forums is no exception

Battle of Hefei nigga

Your mom asked for it

Starting wars will always make you the bad guy, especially in the countries that had to deal with it. People who can't understand something so simple are retards.

basically japanese hitler

Romans vs ancient chinese. who wins?

People remember Hitler because of how often he showed up in allied propaganda.
There's no such thing as bad publicity.

Well Cao Cao himself wasn't present or involved with the battle, that was all on Sun Quan's poor military prowess and Zhang Liao's ability to passively sap the testosterone of men around him. Good point though, I did forget about that

Romans because of their proto-germanic warrior caste

He was non-conformist in an asian country, one steeped in massive respect culture no less. He ignored social and warfare norms, entertained Christian missionaries (although there's no evidence to suggest he was actually interested) and he disrespected the royal court.

So full of shit.

Jean Reno directly worked with Capcom and provided the voice for the French version.

Where do people come up with this bullshit?

Thats none of my business

Go play Tiger Knight or Watch Dragon Blade to find out

The big fuss about hitler is the dominance of american culture across the world.

It's just a popular image, but it's pretty ingrained in the japanese subconscious. Kind of like Napoleon is almost always depicted as a bad guy because of how much he was hated by royalty and the curch at that time.
Japanese students have a popular way of remembering each of the three unificators:
>What if a bird doesn’t want to sing? “Kill, it!”, said Nobunaga. “Make it want to sing”, said Hideyoshi “Wait”, said Ieyasu
and so everyone learns that Nobunaga was the ruthless one

He was the most brutal of the three unifiers, and he used WESTERN influences to do so.
Emohasis on the WESTERN, he uses gaijin (demonic) rifles etc

Nah, I'm pretty sure WW2 is the only war where a side is deemed evil through a series of doctored and outright fabricated "facts" and simulacrums of justice.

depends which era

Americans had absolutely no stake in WW2 except stealing all the German minds and testing their atomic toys on the rice monkeys.

>japan royal court
>relevant

Pick non, the only royal court that had power was the chinese and even then with enough destabilizing they would get rekt too, just look at the qin and han dynasty.

surprised hideyoshi's isn't "rape it"

Everyone used rifles, mate. He was just an earlier adopter. The Date were also prolific users of rifle tactics.

>"facts"
Ah. Holocaust denier?

>Why didn't Hitler open a book about the Napoleonic wars before making the exact same mistakes that cost Napoleon his empire ?

Ironically, Hitler admired Napoleon, but somehow didn't learn from his mistakes.

>Furthermore why did he decide to finally back Japan despite at first courting the Kuomintang during the initial stages of the Japanese invasion ?

Once he saw Japanese Imperial Army smashing Chang Kai-Shek's forces he probably thought the Japanese were going to sweep Asia.

Romans said that the people of Cartague did cannibalism and infanticide on regular basis. Also the crusades.

>Americans had absolutely no stake in WW2 except stealing all the German minds and testing their atomic toys on the rice monkeys

not what i meant, Sup Forumstard. the reason hitler is ready to roll out on everybody's toungue is because american culture and propaganda are prevalent across the world.

Mandate of heaven bro, the basic gestalt of Chinese dynasties is that a bad ruler deserves to be overthrown and that an overthrown ruler deserved it.
That's why peasant revolts were almost always major factor in the collapse of Chinese imperial dynasties and also why the Yuan and Qing dynasties were accepted despite not being Han.

cuz he looks like the japanese version of stalin

>invading Stalingrad instead of Moscow.
But he did both?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow

more like the Han is a bunch of crafty pussies who dont have the gut to stand up to authority.

He's not a good guy
He's not a bad guy

One word: "Mustache".

A true villain is always recognized by his fearsome evil mustache!

Is he, dare I say, /ourguy/?

He did. Haven't you played the totally historically accurate Wolfenstein games?

...

Americans have absolutely no reason to hate Hitler, he literally indirectly gave them their space program and most of their contemporary military R&D, also I'm not a Sup Forumstard.

Dunno about the memecaust but Nuremberg was a lot of bullshit and a lot of people in my country who had nothing do with the nazis or germany were outright killed by the socialists and commies using lies to justify it.

that's wrong though, really, check out the history of China and peasant revolts and the concept of mandate of heaven, it makes for a good reading and you'll go to sleep less stupid for it.

He was cool with the Japanese christians and wanted to Make Japan Daijobu Again

You'll notice that the term "unification", "unifying" and such in Japanese is synonymous with "evil person". Nobunaga wanted to bring them into the modern period and was even interested in opening borders.

He was one of the first major people to wear down the old guard, sowed the seeds of disparity. So, traditionalist retards consider him literally Hitler as the root cause of Japan's modern degeneracy.

Funny considering they're the actual cause of it.

>A true villain is always recognized by his fearsome evil mustache!
I fucking knew it.
youtube.com/watch?v=c3xvcn-gDNM

He did fuck around a lot.

>Once he saw Japanese Imperial Army smashing Chang Kai-Shek's forces he probably thought the Japanese were going to sweep Asia.

Too bad he didn't factor in the Russians and the fact that although the coast of China can easily be invaded it's almost impossible to push inland from a certain point due to geography.

Nobunaga is pretty much the best example of a successful, ruthless Japanese warlord.

He took control of a middling clan and developed his position to the point that he is considered one of three unifiers of the country. Some of his process was typical warlord behavior - rewarding his followers for cutting down and presenting him the heads of his routed foes, for example. But Nobunaga was occassionally so ruthless that even other Warlords were given pause. To provide an example, his own secretary, who was himself a soldier, who chronicled Nobunaga's life with the explicit intention of venerating him, was obviously disturbed by Nobunaga's decision to annihilate the entirety of Mount Hiei. Another point of contention I can recall is Nobunaga's decision to bury Ikko partisans in sand and saw their heads off.

tl;dr Other Warlords thought Oda needed to chill the fuck out.

Wei=Wu>shit>Shu
Shimazu>Takeda=Oda>Date=Uesugi>Tokugawa>shit>>>>Hojo=Ashikaga

> Kind of like Napoleon is almost always depicted as a bad guy

where do you live bro ?
I don't think he's seen as a bad guy anywhere but in England

Yeah, but the guy possessing him is basically just the historical depiction of that one gaijin who came to Japan during the period to convert them to Christianity, Xavier. Ironically, he's a fucking demon in the game.

...

He was portrayed as a fucciboi clutz in Inuyasha.

Which Nobunaga's Ambition game should I play? I've never touched any of them.

Americans have no reason to hate Hitler because they benefited from the war? What the fuck?

>Nuremberg was a bunch of bullshit
Should have hung even more nazis desu.