How the fuck is this shit not classed as gambling

How the fuck is this shit not classed as gambling

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business.time.com/2013/05/14/chuck-e-cheese-where-a-kid-can-gamble-like-an-adult/
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Has to do with the idea that you will always get something regardless of how much you put into it.

Gambling implies you have a chance of getting nothing in return, this way they say "Well you didn't get anything you wanted but you still got something for your purchase!"

Because you don't get real life money from loot boxes. Stop talking about this.

It rewards a currency as a runner up prize if you have the things that came from it and you can use said currency to buy skins.

If it rewarded nothing and you couldn't buy skins. It would be considered gambling.

Who cares though?

in gambling you are betting something of value to win something else of value.

in loot box system, you are not betting anything.

Because

A) You always get a reward

B) You don't spend any money

>This thread again.

Gambling only counts if you have a chance of winning back money. Items and gold within the game don't count as money. Thus it's not gambling.

And before you say it; no. Selling your account to profit from those items doesn't count because you're breaking the ToS you agreed to when installing the game.

And no, we don't care what you think should count as gambling. The goalposts aren't moving.

I guarantee you it will be within 10 years

Replace the picture with a TF2 crate and I would agree. For overwatch you get literally nothing of value in return no matter what you get. It could be a crate with the best 4 skins in the game and its still worthless.

This, you're not getting or losing actual gold-backed money, you've bought super-coins or platinum or whatever and you're using a "service" with imaginary funds, not actually betting money.

This isn't gambling in a legal way.

This could happen, remember when China's new law (every possible drop% has to be shown in the open) got everyone fired up? That might be a step in the right direction.

Gambling does not imply that at all. Otherwise there would be a lot of casinos where you get a fraction back of what you put in every time.
However, loot boxes still aren't gambling, since you can't win anything with material value anyway.

Because with gambling you have a chance for an actual reward of substance and merit. This is giving your money away for nothing.

>gold-backed money
What century do you live in

in china they bann this shit because the public doesnt know the chances they have to win shit so you can you putting in money with a low % chance of winning what u actually want they shit is gambling law makers just havent caught up to it yet FUck all your bullshit definitions

China's dumb as fuck though.

It is gambling. It's just jumping through many loop holes. I wouldn't be surprised if we see actions taken against video game gambling soon.

>china
really gets the neurons flowing

If this is gambling, how is any game that has RNG elements not gambling?

Because you get worthless digital items that can't even be converted to real world currency.

CSGO has a better claim to be "actual gambling" then Overwatch does.

why do people care about skins in a first person game

Most games with RNG elements don't have an option for you to spin a slot machine for real world money in hopes of getting that thing. If Diablo had a slot machine you could pay money for to get a new sword, that'd be gambling as well.

No, they don't ban it in China. They just passed a law: it's mandatory for games to show the odds of loot box results.

>2.6 ...Online game publishers shall promptly publicly announce information about the name, property, content, quantity, and draw/forge probability of all virtual items and services that can be drawn/forge on the official website or a dedicated draw probability webpage of the game. The information on draw probability shall be true and effective.

It's actually better than shitty Western vidya law, IMO. You think your senator knows the difference between a FPS and an RTS?

It is by any definition not put out by a TF2/CS:GO/Blizzfag

It's a fucking joke that China of all countries is forcing transparency for loot boxes and gacha shit

A game that just throws RNG elements at you isn't gambling. A game that allows you to dump money into an RNG system is gambling. Just so happens that they use loopholes to circumvent law. We'll definitely see this shit addressed in the near future. Children having the capability to just dump hundreds of dollars into a system with the intention of getting something good? Big no no. Even if you get a minimum something in return.

Nintendo's Mii phone app will probably run into issues also. So will War Thunder.

Because you cant earn money with it user. No matter what you always lose.

You can easily consider time spent playing as labor and then any boss killed during that time as a slot spin. What's the difference?

Having gone through a period of playing chink MMOs published by Aeria Games this sort of law anywhere else would run them out of business. For those unfamiliar, this would be a good thing.

Japan recently started setting regulations on video game gachas, too, you know.

Because the people who run government are too old to know this shit is happening

Seriously, do you think anyone over 40 knows about this shit?

because this game has absolutely no content besides that

Probably because what you get has no real world value.

it is gambling. it is just that for mostly political reasons a lot of countries have nonsensical distinctions between acceptable normal games and *evil* gambling.

If you think children are who they are protecting with these laws, you're out of your mind. It's the addicts who are nearly worse off than real gambling addicts because at least the latter have a chance of getting something of value in return.

I agree with you in principle, but playing devil's advocate:

>ha ha, you paid money for an entertaining online experience? what a sucker!

>You can easily consider time spent playing as labor and then any boss killed during that time as a slot spin. What's the difference?

I told you the difference. You're not paying real money. Yes, you could go into it and come out the other end saying all video games are gambling but that is harder and more difficult to argue than "if you put money into this, you might get something good and highly valued". They're using straight up gambling tactics and I'd wager it triggers all the same psychological activity as real-world gambling does when you spend $10 to open loot boxes in Overwatch hoping for the thing you want.

their law makers know of it they been playing games most of their life the west is just a bunch of old farts mark zuckerberg for president 2024

You always can get a reward, but that reward won't always be equal to what you spent on it turning it in to a loss of money.

Gacha is legal ;)

Gambling requires putting up money and maybe getting money in return. Not pixels.

If putting time and money into something with guarantee or knowledge of the reward odds is always gambling, they better regulate relationships and work better too.

I have a business idea

>build a not-casino
>my policy is you cannot walk out monetarily empty handed
>losing means I give you a penny
>no matter the amount of money you not-bet, no matter how badly you lose, I will always give you a penny
>this is not gambling because technically always get a return in cash
>anyone can come in because it's a not-casino with not-gambling

Am I rich yet?

this
the lack of trading in Overwatch makes the items worthless. meanwhile there was a crackdown on an actual rigged gambling circuit in CSGO last year. with no trading in Overwatch, you could get some skin that has a 0.001% drop rate, and that's it, you have it. in a game with trading, you want to keep getting it so you can sell it

>If you think the children are who they are protecting

I didn't say that. I'm pointing out that this shit allows children to gamble money away, and you know that you always need to think of the poor children! They're a very convenient scapegoat.

I actually agree with you 100%, I just think it's still distinct from gambling as you have no avenue to exchange your "winnings" for anything of material value. They should still regulate things like this.

I'd take an old fart over some jew who wants to violated my privacya ny day.

>spending fucking MONEY on lootboxes

jesus christ, I always wonder how these types of sales tactics actual work but I guess people are just idiots

It's legally not gambling because
A) You can't get any money out of it directly from the source
B) You ALWAYS get SOMETHING, even if it's not the legendary you want to get every roll, you get something back every single time. So you're making a purchase which can be defined linguistically as a gamble, but legally isn't defined as such.

No because it doesn't have the same draw as regular gambling and you're losing money per bet.

We need MSM to write a hit piece on it the wider world wouldnt know about it untill more and more children empty their parents bank account

My friends have probably spent more on lootboxes than I spent on vidya over the last 6 months.
My mobage playing friends spent even more on gacha shit as well

What my colleague is trying to say is:

There's a direct agency relationship between the spending of money, and the triggering of an event with an uncertain outcome. The chain of causation is temporally swift and unbroken.

You don't need to win monetary prizes to be gambling. All you need is to put up a stake, and have a chance of receiving something you otherwise wouldn't have.

You just agreed with him you silly fuck.

>Distinct from gambling as you have no avenue to exchange your winnings for anything of material value

Not that user. I don't think the issue is being able to get anything of material value. The issue is being able to dump money into a system which doesn't guarantee you get what you want. That's why it should legally be viewed as gambling. You're putting in money directly on the chance to gain a legendary skin, for example.

>Buy fast food kiddie meal
>random toy included
How the fuck is this shit not classed as gambling
>Buy booster pack of trading cards
>It is uncertain exactly which cards are in the booster pack
How the fuck is this shit not classed as gambling
>Play in a chuckie cheese or whatever equivalent kiddie arcade restaurant company is in your country
>get tickets in chance based game
>Exchange tickets for shitty toys
How the fuck is this shit not classed as gambling
>Those machines in shopping malls where you put in a quarter and you get a capsule
>capsule has a toy, but its random what you get
How the fuck is this shit not classed as gambling
>play pachinko
>redeem tokens for some shitty but hard to replicate toy
>sell shitty toy to some shady cashier behind a tinted window next door that has nothing to do buisness-wise with the pachinko place but will pay top dollar to your shitty but hard to replicate toy
How the fuck is this shit not classed as gambling

There's already been mainstream coverage of shit like kids grabbing their parent's phone and spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on gacha or other microtransactions. Generally the company involved doesn't have to offer a refund but sometimes they do for PR. But people are already familiar with these issues and most go "tough luck".

>>losing means I give you a penny
I bet separate 1ยข bets on each roulette space

At the end of the day its the whales sinking all their money into this shit and its just simply unlocking some assets in a video game. There is a hundred ways to do this. You can make whatever law you want its still gonna happen.

I said he's right but for the wrong reasons.

>Buy a fast food kiddie meal
>Get a random toy

Ask for a new one faggot. Didn't read the rest, you're clearly retarded after this first one.

>Aeria
Went to hell eh? I wonder how you stay sane that long.

>implying the people at the register aren't asshole teenagers who hate everything

It isn't gambling because you are guaranteed to get something in return for your money, which is a purchase. What you get in each box is a gamble, but spending money on mystery boxes is not a gamble, you run zero risk of receiving nothing.

>where is the 'meal' in Overwatch loot boxes?
>booster packs are gambling, you could get the shittiest packs ever
>chuck e cheese? see business.time.com/2013/05/14/chuck-e-cheese-where-a-kid-can-gamble-like-an-adult/
>literally gambling that you'll get the toy you want
>he seriously thinks pachinko is not gambling

How come?

Wins and good plays have the same rules as regular gambling, but losing nets you a guaranteed penny.

I'm sure this is also prohibited in any regular casino.
Otherwise, it is in mine.

It should definitely be regulated similarly, I won't argue that

it's a loss at any reward stop fooling yourself

Give one reason to regulate this that aren't "the children" and "my feelings". Then remember that regulations, the vast majority of the time, solve nothing and only increase costs for companies.

I got this fucker because I used to ask the mcdonalds employees for different parts as a kid

Guarantee of return is nothing more than a loophole.

It takes time for old farts to realize that the world is changing. Shit is going to be illegal one day for sure.

YOU are losing money per bet, the casino, because you have to pay a penny per bet. Where as with a normal casino they don't do that.

>Buy these mystery boxes, they contain anything from 100 dollars to a penny.
>Totally not gambling

ROBOTS
FOR
EVERYONE
MOTHERFUCKER

HOW IS OPENING PACKS OF TRADING CARDS NOT GAMBLING?

>food analogies
Nice.

>tfw my parents didn't let me get happy meals

>It isn't gambling because you are guaranteed to get something in return for your money, which is a purchase

You're confusing the actions associated with gambling for the activity itself. You're guaranteed to get a betting stub, that doesn't mean you're not gambling at the races.

you paid for the cards
you got the cards

If a casino could get around gambling laws by shifting all dollar bets to a 1.01 bet and always paying out a penny, do you think they wouldn't?

>I'd just bet a penny then
There's nothing but convenience stating currency can't be lower than a cent.

Not quite the same.
>buy these mystery boxes, they contain anything from not tradeable for real currency to 100x not tradeable for real currency

They should clearly label the exact odds of every card being in that pack otherwise it's gambling according to half the people here.

not him but this reminds me
I once bought a pokemon booster pack and got 5 basic energies non holo
I was mad as fuck

It's quite simple.

>If multiple people can pay money for a chance at getting something, and are statistically likely to get different results, it's gambling.

Can't think of any loopholes here

Why do people care if it's gambling or not?

Regardless if it's real money or items, you know that you're only paying for a chance of winning something good. If you're not happy with that, don't buy it. Simple as that.

>do you think they wouldn't?
Why would they? Would it increase their profits?
If anything it would decrease it, not only with the stuff I mentioned earlier but they wouldn't be able to advertise as a casino.

Put a lower limit to what you can bet then.

Say, a nickel. Someone wins, they get two nickels. Someone loses, they get a penny.

I'm no businessman, but I can't see how my casino would lose money for paying a penny per lost bet.

But you did not purchase the betting stub just for the stub, you made a bet and the stub is there to signify you made that bet. When you bought that key to open the crate, you did it because you wanted a skin. You still get a skin, you can never not get a skin unlike at a horse race where you can lose your bet, it just wasn't the skin you wanted.

Why would you NOT want to know your odds of getting a foil mythic rare?

it has no monetary value

I don't think you understand the problem here.
You're going from:
>only lose money when they win
to
>lose money when they lose and when they win
That's a clear loss, I don't need to see the miscarriage to see that.

>Japan passes a law that requires publishers to disclose gacha rates for premiums in video games
>Square and Blizzard doesn't disclose them

>China passes a law that requires publishers to disclose gacha rates for premiums in video games
>Blizzard collectively goes "Oh fuck"

Ask yourself how liquid Overwatch skins are. And don't be a hair-splitting faggot about it.

The argument was about the guarantee to receive "something", not the items you may or may not receive

I see where you're coming from, but here's the rub:

it's entirely possible to not get anything in a loot box but sprays and voice lines, (the lowest and most common items). You certainly don't get a skin every time.

Is it gambling yet?

>4 friends play poker on a beach, using grains of sand as their chips
>it's not gambling

>I'm no businessman, but I can't see how my casino would lose money for paying a penny per lost bet.

you wouldn't. and this how actual casinos operate, they give you rewards per every time you gamble.

>unfair gambling terms
Even worse than regular one.

>Buy booster pack of trading cards
>It is uncertain exactly which cards are in the booster pack
Only good point you made desu

>grains of sand

Yeah, this is the issue. People are hung up on the idea that "oh, these things can't be traded, therefore you cannot earn any monetary value back, therefore it's not gambling." If I'm pumping money into something for the chance to get a random assortment of shit, with no guarantee to know exactly what I'm getting, it's gambling.

>4 friends play poker on a beach, using grains of sand as their chips
Then it's just a game.
What next, Monopoly is gambling?

Are you literally retarded? What is the difference in betting a dollar on a dice roll and receiving 2 dollars or nothing or betting a dollar and one cent and receiving either $2.01 or $.01?

That's not gambling.