Which was better?

Which was better?

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Talos. Witness was literal shit that no one remembered after a week.

Talos is more fun and a lot less stuck up it's own ass.
The Witness is actually really fucking clever at times, but that does not change the fact that it's pretentious as all fucking hell and sacrifices a LOT to get it's pretentious little message across, including variety, any sense of narrative consistency, basically any atmosphere or self-awareness.

The design of puzzles in Witness is very peculiar. And it does actually achieve a degree of perfection and creativity with those particular puzzles that very few other games ever did. That said, if you aren't the very specific, narrow demographic that find's Witness puzzles appealing, there is literally nothing else about the game worth playing.

In comparison, Talos is fairly generic and the puzzles are not particularly inventive. But there is greater variety to them, they have a broader appeal, and besides them, there is a surprisingly good story, beautiful soundtrack and exploration that rewards you with more than just more puzzles to be solved.

I liked Talos a lot more than Witness.

Plebs.

Neither

Antichamber is the definition of a gimmick game. It's fun for a while, but the trick gets really old really fast and it gradually grows more and more dull.

The game would benefit from some form of stronger narrative, or greater degree of exploration. As it stands, it's a technically impressive trick that lasts for about half an hour, stretched over seven hours.

Talos, By a mile.

>The game would benefit from some form of stronger narrative
No.
>or greater degree of exploration
Maybe.

>No.
Why? Talos was carried partially by the strength of his writing. If you game lacks sufficiently good problem solving, a narrative can actually make getting past the dull parts easier.
The premise and the tech alone simply weren't enough to make the game consistently engaging. Why rejecting something that would provide a solution to that?

Yes.
Whew lad, countered every single point you made.

It would've been better without the block puzzles, which are completely different from puzzles derived from impossible objects

pretty much this

Talos looked nice, had ok puzzles, and decent story.

On the other hand wittness is pretentious indie garbage. But it is beautiful and logical.
When you solve a difficult puzzle after three days, you really feel good.
Also when you start finding puzzles everywhere

I liked The Witness a lot.

Looking to play Talos Principle, but I can't find it anywhere other than Steam.

This nigga gets it.

Talos' story also gave me feels.

you can buy it on humble store?

Unfortunately it's only on Steam. I guess non-DRM options or selling direct don't seem to be a good idea to the devs.

>sacrifices a LOT to get it's pretentious little message across

wut

>variety

>any sense of narrative consistency

What are you talking about. How are those "sacrificed"?

>basically any atmosphere or self-awareness.

Nigga, The Witness is fucking Self Awareness: The Game.

The Witness, but both are great.

>The game would benefit from some form of stronger narrative
Antichamber didn't have a narrative, I think one would be senseless considering how simple the levels are visually.

>greater degree of exploration
Your complaint after this is how it lasts too long, why are you contradicting yourself? Still, something I agree with, the weird shit takes a backstage to block puzzles, which sucks a lot, I imagine having block shit and noneuclidian would've been interesting instead of block shit or noneuclidian

i will never understand people who like talos better, especially for the reason of being pretentious.

if you take out the audio logs the witness is the opposite of pretentious. the point is literally pure puzzle in pure world. it's GAME.
talos on the other hand, while great, infuses a pretty easy puzzle set with really poorly designed extra puzzles with a philosophical gobbledygook story about robots loving god or whatever.
i have no idea what people think of the witness. it's not a masterpiece because its philosophically entertaining. it's just really fucking pleasant and fun. if you care so much about the audiologs, but not about the fucking terminals in talos, you are just being hypocritical.
however, this is the true greatest answer.

I liked both. Both have their flaws, though.

Nah, you just get a Steam key.

Alright, I'll just wait for it to come out some place else eventually.

I've got plenty of games to play in the meantime.

If you have a PS4 there's a physical edition

Really this. The level of design that has gone into The Witness is on an entirely different level.

Great games. Also, Talos is much better. I feel TW has way more quantity than quality, and not all the environmental puzzles are as good as they should.

Both are masterpieces, but I'll stick to The Witness because the amount of autistic detail that was put into it will not be topped in a long time.

>with a philosophical gobbledygook story about robots loving god or whatever.

I guess you just watched the trailer and never played the game.

I don't, but one of my pals do. Might utilize that.

Are all of the people calling The Witness pretentious just struggling to find some deep hidden meaning where there is none? What the fuck is pretentious about it?

Talos

The Witness.

That said, Fract OSC shits all over both games and is the king of the first person puzzler subgenre.

Like most eastern-european developers they are pretty obsessively afraid of pirates, plus Talos was really just a small side project they did with no idea if it's even going to be successful, so they really did not even think of selling physical copies or handling multiple distribution channels, I guess.

>wut
Good question. What the FUCK are you not getting about those fucking statements?

>with a philosophical gobbledygook story about robots loving god or whatever.
No offense, but if you did not get the most fucking basic fundaments of the story, maybe you should not be calling it pretentious.

The Witness is pretentious because it uses an incredibly complicated toolset to communicate a cheap and shallow message. It's not about the puzzles, by the way: the puzzles are merely a tool to teach the player a "valuable" lesson about the importance of perspective. You know, the kind of message that a twelve years old can figure out?

And it's not pleasant and fun for most people. For most people, it's an exercise in tedium, and the game fucking WALLOWS in that shit.

If you enjoyed the puzzles, good for you. But pretending that is all the game is about is just bullshit. You are ignoring a lot of shit that is in that game for convenience.

>tfw no puzzle game has ever come close to Portal series to me

I prefer Talos, but I recommend still playing both. Witness has few suprises, but Talos is all around better in any aspect.

To be honest, them both left me wanting more puzzle games, propably trying Obduction and Quern next.

>philosophical gobbledygook story about robots loving god or whatever.
wat
did you even play the game

obduction

>Portal
>puzzle game

I stopped playing Antichamber after a couple of hours. Walking around impossible room mazes is fun, but the block puzzle shit was just annoying, especially when you have to re-solve every shitty little puzzle if you happen to walk through the same room again.

Talos was way better

Talos is the better overall game, including the expansion.
Not sure why anyone would say The Witness is better.

I'm surprised they're mad at that and not at the fact that there's no easy way to even comprehend how the puzzles are structured and solved

Fract OSC>Witness>Antichamber>Talos

Talos was too easy, Antichamber too tedious, Witness was too fucking autistic and doesn't have a smooth enough learning curve.

>Good question. What the FUCK are you not getting about those fucking statements?

EXACTLY the things I proceeded to point out you complete buffoon.

It is a puzzle game.

The first sets of puzzles do an amazing job of teaching you how the first two or three mechanics work. Too bad the game has like 20+ different kinds of puzzles all ascending in difficulty.

It's like Blow just stopped caring and never bothered trying to teach the player again.

Dude, the game consciously gave up any sort of meaningful or engaging narrative, completely gave up on having puzzles that go beyond "pay attention to environment and then use that to connect two fucking dots" - it fucking gave up on having fucking MUSIC, all of that for the sake of making a silly, shallow point about perspective and patterns.
ONCE AGAIN, what the fucking fuck do you not understand about that?

>doesn't have a smooth enough learning curve.

I heavily disagree.

That would imply that Portal isn't WAIT A MINUTE THAT CARD tier and requires some form of thought to play.

road to gehenna >>>>>>>>> vanilla talos > witness

Actually, all of the puzzles are based on the same scheme, one that you can figure out within the first few sets. The rest is just increasing degree of insanity of application of the same mechanic that is very much taught at the very first few locations.

That said, some of the puzzles are just stupid, and feature some level of adventure game logic. But then again, considering just how many of the puzzles are there all together, it's actually kinda impressive that so many of them work.

>robots loving god or whatever.

absolutely confirmed for never playing the game

>consciously gave up any sort of meaningful or engaging narrative

It never pretended there should be one, so it can't have given up on it.

>completely gave up on having puzzles that go beyond "pay attention to environment and then use that to connect two fucking dots"

It's pretty normal for a puzzle game to really just continue building on one simple concept.

>it fucking gave up on having fucking MUSIC

It's rather obviously a choice to not have any. You can pimp your own tunes while you play it, like if you were solving sudokus or other traditional puzzles.

>all of that for the sake of making a silly, shallow point about perspective and patterns.

I don't think that's silly or shallow at all.

So I guess what I didn't understand was that you think so. And that's fine.

You think Fract was harder than Talos??? Like, it's a good puzzle game, but it was nowhere near the complexity of the other three you listed, it's way more style, music, and exploration focused than the other three I don't even know why you'd put them on the same scale, it's pretty much a completely different game.

...

No, it wouldn't.

It's just not a very difficult puzzle game.

There are lots of those out there.

turing test would have been awesome if it wasn't so mind numbingly easy. should have shipped it with a level editor.

I can confirm, I finished 'the witness' 2 days ago and game have only good level design, nothing else.
Talos have better story and puzzles.

>It never pretended there should be one, so it can't have given up on it.
Actually, it does. Complete with false ending, and an entire outro cinematic. It's a poor narrative and poorly implemented, but it is there.
But more importantly: MY POINT IS THAT THE GAME LACKS GREATER STORY. WHICH MAKES IT EVEN MORE BORING THAT IT SHOULD BE.
It's like with the fucking music: just because you never intenended to have any music does not mean that the lack of music somehow stops making the game worse.

>It's pretty normal for a puzzle game to really just continue building on one simple concept.
It's not. You may be blind as fucking fuck, but that is your issue. Rest of the world actually understood the game. And found it pretentious and annoying.

>It's rather obviously a choice to not have any.
Yes. It's because the game is ALL about environmental cues, and several of them are based on ambient sounds. So he made the game boring as all fucking hell because he wanted to implement several incredibly badly puzzles.
That is STILL. SHITTY. DESIGN.

>I don't think that's silly or shallow at all.
You clearly don't even know it's there you idiot.

I'm so fucking excited about Stephen's Sausage Roll. Huge fan of his. But I'd been puttin git off until I 100%'d The Witness.

So now I'm coming, mofo.

>Zachtronics

I really want to like Infinifactory, but I'm just not crazy enough. Or autistic enough for his following game, jesus christ.

as a jew with a lot of interest in theology the talos principle was really fucking good.

The witness gave me motion sickness and stopped being fun 2 hours in.

>Actually, it does.
Actually, it does not.

>MY POINT IS THAT THE GAME LACKS GREATER STORY. WHICH MAKES IT EVEN MORE BORING THAT IT SHOULD BE.
I disagree entirely.


>It's not
It is. Completely. I could list about a hundred games.

>Yes. It's because the game is ALL about environmental cues, and several of them are based on ambient sounds. So he made the game boring as all fucking hell because he wanted to implement several incredibly badly puzzles.
That is STILL. SHITTY. DESIGN.

You are wrong. Music could be dialed down when cues were important. It's a clear choice for it to not be there.

>You clearly don't even know it's there you idiot.

I don't know what you mean. How could I possibly miss the general message about the importance of seeing things from difference perspectives?

>Actually, it does not.
Yes. I mean, the two endings one of which is blatantly false, about five hours worth of random footage, several hundreds of pieces of what is quite clearly attempt at enviromental design (such as signs of other people inhabiting the world, which serve no puzzle solving issue), and the entire fucking outro are there for no reason. Because you don't see the reason. And that fucking means there can't be one.

>I disagree entirely.
You are an idiot. Why the fuck should I care? Make a fucking point of piss off.

>It is. Completely. I could list about a hundred games.
See above you drooling retard.

>Music could be dialed down when cues were important.
Which would IMMEDIATELY draw attention to the sound in that scene, making the solution to the problem painfully obvious. God you are fucking stupid. That is beyond belief.

>It's a clear choice for it to not be there.
Yes. Because of the puzzles. And because Blow is a pretentious asshole making stupid design decisions compromising the quality of his games to seem more profound and unique. That is what pretentious people do.

>I don't know what you mean.
THAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM.

>How could I possibly miss the general message about the importance of seeing things from difference perspectives?
What the fuck... you just denied that the game is about that you fucking cretin? What the fuck are you smoking?

Did you get the message, or are you fucking denying it's core role in the fucking game? Make up your fucking mind and put together an actual coherent argument for fucking once. Or stop wasting our time.

>a pretty easy puzzle set
Are you including the DLC and all the optional puzzles when you say that? Some of them get pretty hard.

What makes a first-person puzzler good to you guys?

It's more about wrapping your head around how portals work, since there's nothing like it in reality or in other video games before it.

Talos doesn't have a minimalist approach going. It would feel very off to have a narator like in Talos.

My point is the game doesn't without any coherent narrative from you just because you felt it implied there to be one. There's as much "point" to it as you feel like there should be.

>See above you drooling retard

No. I talked about it being completely nortmal for puzzle games to just continue elaborating on a single concept. And it is. You dismissed that for some reason related to story.

>Which would IMMEDIATELY draw attention to the sound in that scene, making the solution to the problem painfully obvious

That is more a case of allowing certain designs to be present because of a different choice. IF he had really wanted music, he would just ahve omitted the few puzzled that require ambient cues, if he really felt they couldn't jive.

As it stands I havfe no reason to believe your assessment of the design methodology, however.

>That is what pretentious people do

No user, you are the pretentious one.

>you just denied that the game is about that you fucking cretin?

I did not. Goodnight.

You don't need to have a narrator. Just a narrative. Saying "but Antichamber is minimalist" does not actually excuse the fact that it gets incredibly boring. That is my complaint: the puzzles and the dimension gimmick just gets boring after a while, because it lacks content and any further motivation for the player to press on.

some user posted his puzzle game a while ago, it gets hard pretty quick, im stuck on about level 12

You got a name or download link? I've been itching for something new.

>My point is the game doesn't without any coherent narrative from you just because you felt it implied there to be one
There is a narrative. Without a fucking doubt, without a fucking question (I JUST LISTED THINGS THAT ARE IN THE GAME, SERVE NO ACTUAL GAMEPLAY PURPOSE, AND PROVIDE A NARRATIVE FUNCTION FOR FUCK SAKE).
The game does not take the narrative anywhere, because having more focused narrative that isn't shit would draw attention away from the pretentious pseudo-message.
But that is just bad design. It makes the game worse. Partially by being dishonest with the player, partially by being boring.

>And it is.
Are you actually mentally retarded? Is there something physically wrong with your brain? It's not a normal puzzle game, it's a pretentious one. For reasons I explained four fucking times already.

>As it stands I havfe no reason to believe your assessment of the design methodology, however.
IT MAKES THE GAME BORING YOU IDIOT. AND THE SOUND-BASED PUZZLES ARE SHIT TOO.
SO IT MAKES THE GAME WORSE. IT MAKES IT BAD. HOW DO YOU NOT GET THAT?!

>No user, you are the pretentious one.
I don't think you have the faintest fucking clue what that word means.

>I did not. Goodnight.
You are pathetic. Next time don't get into discussions if you can't even fucking follow basic thought lines or actually put together an argument, but still refuse to fucking re-evaluate your position.

Duo. I doubt you can pirate it because it seems obscure, but it's $2 on steam.
store.steampowered.com/app/568200/

The one that's not under-designed

The one that actually runs on my computer despite it being way more impressive visually.

we talkin about croteam optimization? because holy fuck are they good at that.