>"Having once made the statement above, I have declined all opportunities to enlarge upon it or defend it. That seemed to be a fool's errand, especially given the volume of messages I receive urging me to play this game or that and recant the error of my ways. Nevertheless, I remain convinced that in principle, video games cannot be art. Perhaps it is foolish of me to say "never," because never, as Steve Howe informs us, is a long, long time. Let me just say that no video gamer now living will survive long enough to experience the medium as an art form."
Art is a completely arbitrary definition at this point, so yeah who cares. I could say in my personal definition of art, music isn't art, and no one would be able to contest it because it's my personal definition.
Lincoln Wilson
t. guy pretending to be a nu-male to bait us
Chase Green
Why do people make statements like this? Treating art as if it's an objective, measurable goal. "Fill a few ticks off this checklist to be considered art".
Angel Gonzalez
these are the best threads
I eagerly await to see what kind of (you)s you get op
Josiah Taylor
You're wrong. You just have a terrible personality and you are desperate to believe that your tryhard taste in music makes up for it. I have formally (as in real classes, not rosetta stone and duolingo) studied something like 8 languages. I have degrees in both ancient history and computer science. I can just as easily talk (and with the reading and experience to back it up) about analytical mathematics, medieval society, world cultures, human psychology, organized crime, film, politics (although I am not autistic enough to talk about that with anyone but my closest friends and family), religion, or video games. I am an outstanding cook, especially caribbean and italian food. I've lived in a house with 30 men and only gotten into two fights. Basically, my personality is better than yours by any measure. And my favorite music is trap rap and reggaeton.
tl;dr obscure music is for losers trying to fake a personality.
Tyler Sanders
ok faggot
Nicholas Smith
>In a superior art form, as, for example, that of music, the being what is without a characteristic genre or style... would emerge as non-art. In this respect videogames are an expression of non-art. There is a role for non-art. It is to be subjected to art whose form and internal laws are precisely defined. Instead the modern non-art seek to become dominant themselves and to exercise their dominion over all creativity. He actually made a good point
Eli King
>"I am the sole arbiter of what is or is not art." -someone noone cares about Really activated those almonds.
Carson Ward
you still don't get it
.ru
Aaron Roberts
- "Frank Zappa is the most untalented musician I've ever heard... He can't play rock 'n roll because he's a loser...".
Justin Reed
...
Carter Martinez
Is that Lou reed?
Colton Reyes
Yes.
Isaiah Taylor
It wasn't always that way.
Carson Cox
>while all the talented musicians are going on to make video game music instead of "shake dat booty 4" or "grill Im your's 7" or "copy John Williams 5702"
yes, video games are "non-art"
Camden Sanders
of course not, that response was pure trolling. his original complaint was a technical one related to interactive/performance art generally.
Logan Johnson
>In a superior art form, as, for example, that of music, the being what is without a characteristic genre or style... would emerge as non-art.
No it doesn't. It just forms a new genre. The idea of it being "art" on some level is never really questioned no matter how trite it is.
Thomas Fisher
my whole life has been a lie
we should all care about the opinion of a man who wrote the line 'my balls feel like a pair of maracas'
Jaxson Morales
Friendly reminder that literature only started being considered 'art' little over a century ago.
Nathan Thompson
I've noticed a number of these threads misattributing this quote to Frank Zappa. Dunno who's trying to push this meme or why, but Roger Ebert said this.
Cameron Perez
I feel like such a faggot for actually getting rustled when Ebert said this
Noah Thomas
Good. All those shit attempts at trying to make some artsy deep shit got us crap like "Gone Home" and other self righteous bullshit.
Rather Vidya just be vidya, there's no reward in something being "Art".
Justin Evans
...
Isaac Carter
Video games is a collaboration of art, from 3D models, to writing, to music.
Jayden Turner
that's a discussion so ridiculous will never never care about. actually, who cares about if vydia are art which isn't some literal fag or """""pin up"""""" dyed hair cunt?
Parker Roberts
Who the fuck is frank zappa? And has he ever played a video game?
Pornogrophy is technically art. Video games, are literally made by artists and design. Whether it's audio video or coding.
Ian Hughes
Yes, but then again, music is barely about art anymore. Video games didn't have the time to "evolve" into an artform before it all became a huge pile of shit due to consumerism. The same happens to music, and any artform at that. It's either meaningless popular bullshit, or shit tier tryhard ass water.
Jack Myers
Frank Zappa is not obscure you pleb
Blake Taylor
I know retard, and if you seriously use the word pleb like that you don't know shit about what you're talking about!
Benjamin Adams
Frank"I did unspeakable things on stage" Zappa would never say it.
Anthony Richardson
Literally who
Matthew Ramirez
His kids names are Dweezil and Moon, hes fucking retarded
Oliver Long
art more like fart lol
Liam Gonzalez
P L E B L E B
Cooper Johnson
>being famous for causing yourself brain damage and playing guitar >art
Angel Allen
you're just some awkward geeky meming kid so I don't care
Juan Foster
>"I don't think they are making them an elevated art form. I think it's still Pacman running around in a stupid labyrinth. I just don't think it's elevated. Kamiya's best game is Starfox 0, and that is an interesting game. I don't think his Bayonetta games are half as interesting though they're 20 million times the expense. What he is doing is some very interesting technical stuff, which, you know, he's shooting mocap and in 3D. That's really tricky and difficult to do…The games, to me, they're mostly boring." Ouch
Luke Barnes
Frank Zappa wasn't big on drugs, he always played music completely sober
Josiah Bailey
Why do you even care?.
Isaiah Rodriguez
Does Sup Forums even know who Frank Zappa was? Ask your mom and dad Sup Forums.
Brandon Bailey
frank zappa is fucking garbage.
Nathan Jenkins
I'd say video games are the most advanced form of art to exist.
Blake Gomez
it's amazing how Zappa causing butthurt even after his death.
hippies got to power, and he laughed at them, so now people hate him
Bentley Richardson
Have you seem modern "art"?
Literally anything can be art these days.
I could shit in a jar, write some pretentious paragraph about its "meaning" and I could make bank.
Anthony Mitchell
Oh, are you Jewish?
Hunter Davis
Literally who?
Thomas Scott
>mfw not a SINGLE pathetic vidya fanboy KEK drone has EVER successfully refuted this devastatingly accurate and airtight critique, especially not the last paragraph
Gabriel Edwards
But he died in 1995, he didn't get to see anything after that
Henry Cook
Are you implying that games got any better after 1995?
Julian Reed
SotN came out in 1997
Blake Watson
>tfw my two favorite musicians don't get along
Liam Bennett
They did.
Isaiah Evans
Dwarf Fortress came out after that, you filthy fucking phillistine.
Joshua Gray
At this point he's right. At least in regards to the medium as a whole. By far, most games are made as a commercial venture, not an individual or even small team of individuals working together to create a piece of art, and when they do it's usually a very small, gimmicky game. When you see entire studios and publishers devoted not to making entertaining/fun (well-selling) products, but instead art, then we will be able to say video games can be art.
I mean, even the name should indicate it's not art. Video GAME. It's a toy. A complex toy, but ultimately just a toy.
Logan Rogers
>all that >favorite music is reggaeton holy shit dude what the fuck, as someone who lived all his life in puerto rico(people play that shit nonstop all day) i can say your taste in music is total shit holy fuck fuck that repetitive nigger crap
Isaac Thompson
Zappa is a nutcase though. You can respect a nutcase, to a certain extent, for being as nutty, honest and confident as possible - and Zappa was not only as mad a brush but effectively communicated that to everyone within earshot.
But he's still fucking mental.
Lucas Turner
Yes, I think Ebert was right. And no one has been able to demolish his argument even today, even though they tried with garbage like braid, gone home, dead ester and journey. IMO the only important thing is that vidya gets similar protections against censorship as art, but philosophically speaking vidya is a process, not an art.
Matthew Price
It sounds very fucking retarded for some reason
Camden Sullivan
Love your nails.
Alexander Taylor
yes. video games were a mistake.
Carson King
Are there this many people here who actually think it was Zappa who said that quote, and not Ebert? Hell, we have this same fucking thread every few months, just inserting "x" person at the end of the quote, how do people fall for it every time?
Nathaniel Anderson
Consider the ease of access that everybody has to music, by comparison. Not only are instruments and lessons in abundance - often freely available in schools - but the availability and influence of music itself presents no obstacles to anyone in our culture. Radios pump out tunes, buskers roam the streets, nightclubs, bars, gigs, history lessons - music is just far more popular: and it has every reason to be, considering it's been around human culture for millennia.
There's a community of music lovers that take it serious as an art form - and that community may be a higher percentage of overall music-consumers than in video games - but, for the same reason that the most (and certainly the biggest) movies and video games are essentially built by vast teams of investors, most music is made for the sole purpose of turning a profit and has nothing to do with any pretence of artistic value.
Oliver Allen
this is a great article though, I especially love the part in which he blasts braid: >Her next example is a game named "Braid" (above). This is a game "that explores our own relationship with our past...you encounter enemies and collect puzzle pieces, but there's one key difference...you can't die." You can go back in time and correct your mistakes. In chess, this is known as taking back a move, and negates the whole discipline of the game. Nor am I persuaded that I can learn about my own past by taking back my mistakes in a video game.
John King
Could you guys stop using retard as an insult? It is not another word for stupid, idiot, moron... My sister was mentally retarded and she died and was the nicest person ever, always caring for others and smiling. Whenever someone use retarded as an insult I can't help thinking about her.
Brandon Davis
That reasoning is retarded. Did you hate your sister, and thus hate thinking about her? Also you're the fuckshit for thinking of your sister when someone is called a retard. It's a derogatory term, and immediately evokes memories of your retard joke of a sister.
Stop projecting your insecurities on everyone else and trying to censor everyone, faggot.
Jaxson Garcia
>she died lol what a retard
William Hernandez
was she at least as cute as ryder did you fuck
Austin Barnes
when did he ever even say this?
Joshua King
If being considered a legitimate form of art means that games are subject to morality policing, I don't want it.
Someone post that comic made by that faggot on Tumblr with the obnoxious lettering about sexism by gamers.
Logan Lewis
I don't even like Zappa that much, but he was obviously talented. Reed was an insufferable faggot
Asher Cook
He didn't. Ebert did, and people on this board have been attributing it to others that they want those on this board to turn on. For what purpose? Who knows. There were daily threads with that monstrosity with no chin back before he died.
Angel Jackson
>retard. It's a derogatory term It isn't. It's like calling a mexican ''mexican''.
Asher Ramirez
>my personality is better than yours
Then why do you come off as such a faggot?
Asher Wilson
He's correct. Video games cannot be art. Art is art because of the creator's intention. It's made to express a certain view or feeling to the audience, while also exhibiting the artist's own technical skill and/or aesthetic prowess.
A video game is entertainment. It's a toy that is designed for the enjoyment of the player. You can make a game that's technically impressive or visually stunning, but the intent of its creators is create something to engage the consumer and give them an obstacle to overcome and a goal to achieve, or it is not a game. If you create for example a walking simulator with the intent to tell a story or show some events you animated, it's not a game.
