Lets see how many plotholes Sup Forums can find

lets see how many plotholes Sup Forums can find

the plot is meant for japanese audiences bruv

why do you care about plotholes you nerd

they could have just tried putting every notable character's name in the Nav to see if they are worth investigating.

every occasion where they found that a person actually had a palace was silly as fuck

>ryuji calls morgana useless
>always have morgana because he's the healer
>never use ryuji
>morgana still leaves despite this

You should bench Mona as soon as you get Makoto

I like how Akechi can hear Morgana talking about Pancakes even though he's just a normal dude hahaha hahaha like atlus how do you mess that one up ahahahahahahaha

not sure if a true "plothole" but in the game characters had to rip off their masks to awaken their persona.... symbolically representing facing their "true self". Futaba and Haru throw this out the window and awaken their personas without this symbolic gesture.

Agreed, they should just shoot themselves instead.

But Ryuji hits hard as hell and Morgana sucks as a healer once Makoto gets off the ground.

Futaba's awakening was done in the same fashion as P4 in which she accepted her shadow in order to have it turn into a Persona. Haru had already had her awakening off screen as Morgana mentioned. She followed him into the Metaverse then had her awakening from there.

thats just natural persona summoning from p2 and p1

>benching your best DPS
>keeps Morgana despite Makoto existing

I use both Makoto and Morgana

Is this it? What happened to Sup Forums saying the game is riddled with plot holes?

During the second act they move their hideout to a high traffic area, and even before that they enter mementos in one such area. Even if it takes a will of rebellion to enter the metaverse, you're telling me nobody but 6 highschool children had that?

More like underdeveloped plot points, but

- There was all this song and dance leading up to Wakaba's research that didn't really have any satisfying payoff
- Akechi's entire arc at the end, having him killed offscreen and in the lamest "muh atonement and sacrifice" way is shitty
- Why isn't Sae romancable godfuckingdammit

same, ryuji is fucking useless to. for some reason he almost always misses his attacks even when i get his accuracy up

The same games where Philemon throw personas at people unlike Jewgor.

The only one that really bugs me is, why the fuck did Joker have amnesia about Shido's identity? Didn't they even go to court over the shit in the beginning? Even if not, how did he totally forget the face and voice of the man he had such a significant encounter with?

It's not plotholes if everybody in the damn game is being retarded by the power of God, which makes sense given how the plot continues after the retarded tweest with Akechi, which could've been solved by simple hacking.

>tries to stop a woman from getting harassed
>the assaulter calls the police
>not just booking the second MC gets the chance

Not really a plothole I guess, but iirc Akechi can still be affected by guns in his boss fight even though they shouldn't logically since he'd know they're fake.

>Okumura shadow is killed
>Takes weeks for him to actually die

Biggest plothole in the game is they let you romance trash like Chihaya, Ohya or Haru but not the best girl in the entire game.

>Threatens to imprison Sojiro for fake child abuse charges, just so she can get information on Wakaba's research
>Treasure never stolen
>Still has the ability to send anyone to jail on false charges
>Wants to know everything about the metaverse
>On Christmas Eve, wants to imprison MC to secretly maintain her conviction record

>game purposely leaves out scenes showing their master plan for muh tweest
>hurr drugs lol
>clearly remembers everything from the past 8 months except those
>we also get to see SIU director scenes and other behind the scenes scenes even though the game is a giant flashback from Joker's perspective

People can reform themselves, Mishima's social link showed this. That's exactly what happened. Go to bed, Makoto.

They did steal her treasure tho

>Didn't they even go to court
>Shido
>Probably left the scene after the police made the arrest

think on that one, user. Also to be fair to Protag, it was dark and if someone's public image involves them wearing glasses, you probably wouldn't recognize them right away without them and vice versa.

Hell Shido didn't recognize Protag at the buffet when he had his glasses on, he only put 2 and 2 together when his shadow saw him take off his mask.

That reminds me of something I was thinking. If the guns are models and cognition or whatever makes them seem real, where did Yusuke, Ann, and Makoto get theirs?

All of the stuff except the last one is valid. SHE PERSONALLY didn't want to try the MC, she just wanted to make sure there wouldn't be a struggle like last time.

The "Joker Switcheroo" plan was by far the most stupid thing in the whole game. There was no 100% guarantee that:


-Joker wouldn't have been killed the moment he was incarcerated (or at least before a rando/Sae would get a chance to meet with him)

-wouldn't have been taken to a different room in a different building in TOKYO other than the interrogation room in the building near the palace

-Akechi wouldn't figure out that he entered Sae's Palace

-the rando/Sae would've been able to meet with Akechi to do the switcheroo

-the cognitive versions of people would behave the same as real people after death (the guard Akechi kills just turns black and disappears conveniently after he leaves the room) that would lead to Akechi realizing he is being duped


I understand that the P Thieves are supposed to know everything from the recorded calls, but they also knew that more than two people (Shido and Akechi) were in on this, meaning the two of them could discuss and change plans on a whim with different people without the group knowing.

I could only enjoy those moments in NG+ after I accepted the fact that the whole plan was just dumb.

Ryuji is your best phys damage dealer and your bro dude. You like hanging out with your cat more than your bro?

Clark Kent syndrome

>people can only change if there heart gets stolen in the metaverse

>Finish the NEET pyramid dungeons
>She sleeps for a full month
>She wakes up does her shit
>Doesn't sleep for a full month ever again

This one is the worst

>Ryuji is your best phys damage dealer

In paper, yes. In practice for me he misses way too often for some reason.

Well,the whole plot revolves around every character being dumb and constantly making mistakes,so I guess the entire plot is one huge hole.

>Philemon was retconned

Enough to ruin the entire game and the rest of the series

>clear Futaba's palace on the very first day
>Futaba sleeps for 3 weeks straight
>Sojiro: Don't worry this kind of thing is normal for Futaba

I think the whole thing is vague enough for him to still exist in some form or another.

>t.never played P1/P2
Phil straight up says he is done interfering with humans.

The thing is I still don't get -why- do such flamboyant shit when you can just hack his fucking phone for the same information. The group has a hacker that can slip into every TV broadcast in the goddamn state but can't do simple shit like searching in Google for info on the future prime minister.

I think that's the main problem with the game itself, it presents itself in such a way that only looking at the surface you can see it's absolutely riddled with retarded shit, and that's on the writers' side, not the characters'.

Wasn't it that Igor is now really the top dog when it comes to wild cards and that Philemon is just working through the Attendents

P6 should be his rebirth

Futaba and her hacking omnipotence was a mistake.

I will sometimes rotate Morgana in during a tough fight where I need to spam Diarahan every turn just to stay alive, but most of the time he's redundant.

objectively best party is Ryuji, Ann, and Makoto.

>Ryuji for the hella strong physical DPS/attack buffs
>Ann for magic DPS+debuffs and healing
>Makoto for support, healing, defense buffs

>best dps
>not joker
Are you telling me you don't do everything yourself while your team buffs and defends?

>sketchy akechi goes up to you during your trip
>suddenly a bond!
>"i dun wanna haeb bonds with dis goy"
>fast forward to some time
>sketchy akechi says he will black mail you
>nobody in the team thought of "fuck that, lets hijack his heart and change it!"

if anything, madarame gave them a hint that they can absolutely do whatever they want with people and they didnt even thought of it when akechi blackmails them

This one bothered me a lot.

>like searching in Google for info on the future prime minister
The entire point of the switcheroo was so that they'd know who was above Akechi.
They had no idea Shido was involved before Akechi let it slip after he'd killed the fake Joker.
So why would they google Shido?

>She never does it again
What is consistency? Lol

I only used Morgana as a healbot outside of combat so I could tone down item usage.

Persona users can't have palaces.

Sweet, same here. Makoto was for combat healing, and Morgana was basically an HM slave healing the team outside of battle

Persona users don't have a palace.

The google thing is about the later part of the game where they just up and guess what "Shido" is it, while extrapolating what he has done over and over with the lead the bartender gives them. Of course, the characters were absolutely right about everything without the minimal research.

The switcheroo could be solved with a simple hack into his account or mobile phone any fucking time since he's in the group, since, of fucking course, Akechi uses his main phone to contact his boss. As I said earlier, I don't consider it a plot hole, since the game states that everyone is acting subnormally thanks to God's will. Just bad writing.

Persona users cant have palaces because they themselves are both products of cognition and can discern if their cognition is warped by looking at others. Though, it would be more apt to say they themselves are their palaces.

morgana said that persona cant have palaces but the cat suffers from specific things before the ending.

they could find akechi's real self in mementos though

That was hilarious
>akechi just fuckin killed me
>I feel like my bond with akechi is growing stronger

its not a plothole but the game lost me when the whole "akechi kills joker" twist began. i swear, every persona game goes full retard near the end.

you can't change the heart of someone who has a persona. they don't have a palace or a shadow self in mementos because their persona IS their shadow self transformed

how shadows and personas are related is literally the only bit of lore/backstory in this series that's consistent between games

And you weren't even there!

Going back to do a Apoc playthrough of SMTA.

Question friends who have should i do it on NG+ or NG? How awful is the early game of NG on Apoc start?

Ok so the fact that Morgana is the manifestation of human hope is a pretty good reason that he doesn't have a palace. It's also stated that he lost his memories because of yarharfiddlededee

And second off they wouldn't be able to find Akechi because he doesn't have a shadow to manifest itself in mementos. Or to be more accurate, his persona wouldn't have escaped his demise.

Protagonist and gang somehow chase after kaneshiro's goons on foot and walk right into his secret club without anyone stopping them.

Why could Akechi hear Morgana without ever having met him?
I thought it wasn't enough just to go to the Metaverse, you actually had to hear him talk to hear him in the real world.

Irony or not? The viewer decides

>you actually had to hear him talk to hear him in the real world

Although it makes sense, I don't remember this actually being the case.

Then again, there were many opportunities before the TV station trip where Akechi could've met/eavesdropped on Morgana in a Palace/Mementos.

>-Joker wouldn't have been killed the moment he was incarcerated
they can't kill him before they make him say "it was me, all the bad things that have been happening were my fault" to cover shidos ass

>-wouldn't have been taken to a different room in a different building in TOKYO
that was the specific building where they can do shady shit.

>-Akechi wouldn't figure out that he entered Sae's Palace
because sae is extremely boring and her palace is 1-1 outside of the casino (which is several storys up because they're underground) there's literally no way he can figure this out

>-the cognitive versions of people would behave the same as real people after death (the guard Akechi kills just turns black and disappears conveniently after he leaves the room) that would lead to Akechi realizing he is being duped
again, this is because sae's cognition is super lifelike outside of her specific place because she isn't all that distorted (and can thus change her heart without losing her treasure)

the only part that was really a risk was sae showing up/coorporating, but they had to risk it because there wasn't any other way to get akechi off their backs for a bit AND figure out shido, what is talking about for example instead only resolves half this problem and doesn't do anything about akechi knowing who they all are and coming to arrest/murder them

was his club a secret? I thought he'd want people to come in so he can pull his very japanese style of blackmail on dumb/naive people that wander in

-how did they get into kamoshida's palace the first time if they didn't know his keyword?
-how were they able to guess every culprit's keyword so easily?

Kamoshida the pervy teacher, Shujin Academy, Castle. All in casual conversation.

>-how did they get into kamoshida's palace the first time if they didn't know his keyword?
ryuji literally guesses into it when he compares kamoshida to a king of a castle, it's like accidently triggering a word filter or a chatbot because your sentence had the keywords in the right order inbetween other words

>-how were they able to guess every culprit's keyword so easily?
because nobody liked spending 2-3 days wandering around town to open up a new dungeon in persona 4

>Not using Ryuji, the best physical attacker
>Actually using Morgana who's just a healslut
>Makoto is a better healer while Ann is the better magic attacker
Ryuji is right about Morgana being useless

Ryuji says something along the lines of "who does he think he is? King of the castle?"

>plothole thread
>"plotholes" are largely either people just misunderstanding events or saying "I wish this had more detail"

meanwhile persona 4 is a game genuinely full of plot holes even though half the game is filler that doesn't matter besides getting more party members

Ryuji says that Kamoshida sees the school as his castle when Joker is fiddling with the Meta-nav

>persona 4 is a game genuinely full of plot holes

name 10

I assumed this was lost in translation where it's the user who gives the item its power.
Because Morgana uses a slingshot and Akechi uses clearly toy ray guns.

>i swear, every persona game goes full retard near the end.
No it's just your brain.

They did steal her treasure.

No they didn't

There's some here.

Yes they did

Wrong.

No they didn't. If they had done it, they would have never had a cognitive interrogation for the ruse to work.
Play the game.

user, they never stole her treasure. If you recall, they Brought the briefcase in as bait for Akechi to think they stole the treasure. The fact that her palace didn't disappear and by extension her entire cognitive world didn't proves that. If they DID steal her treasure, they would've never been able to trick Akechi into killing Cognitive Joker.

>When narukami is arrested he doesn't stick his hand or entire head into the TV that's sitting right there when he's trying to explain about the TV world to dojima and he doesn't believe him"

>Naoto acting like adachi saying "namatame threw them in the tv" is some sort of smoking gun WHEN THEY FUCKING TOLD THEM NAMATAME THREW PEOPLE INTO A TV

>When trying to find out info on kanji and talking to his mother at the shop, the cast gets sidetracked by bullshit small talk and eventually gets sent out. Instead of going back the next day to actually ask what they wanted this entire idea and kanji's mother disappear into the ether

>The entire concept that they have to enter from the junes TV or they might get lost somewhere dangerous, and thus instead of chasing right after namatame they should just come back tommorow and dungeon crawl. Teddie can make fucking TV"s that let you leave the way you came whenever he wants, there's literally nothing preventing them from at least SEEING what's on the other side of the TV he uses and then leaving right away if it's too risky

>Naoto tries to talk namatame down to get info out of him before his boss fight, but joins in calling adachi a dumb meanie like everyone else. How exactly were they planning on arresting him? Or was naoto just going to murder him like she suggests you murder namatame?

Then there are the things that aren't exactly plot holes but are just really stupid or unexplained when they probably should've been. Like literally anything about what teddie is or how he came to be besides "he was a shadow that somehow awoke to emotions, it's like a human getting a persona but backwards" which really just raises more questions than it answers or literally anything about what izanami is and why it's hanging out in this random country town, instead of hanging out near a massive population center like all the other cognitive gods that want to judge mankind this series has had

>they can't kill him before they make him say "it was me, all the bad things that have been happening were my fault" to cover shidos ass

Uuh, this was never a deal breaker. They drugged him, failed to get a confession and killed him anyway. Even if it was true, the Pee Thieves had no guarantee that this was something that had to happen.


>that was the specific building where they can do shady shit.

Again, there was the very real possibility that someone else involved in the cover up could have changed the location, or any aspect of the process that would've messed up the other steps in the plan.


>because sae is extremely boring and her palace is 1-1 outside of the casino (which is several storys up because they're underground) there's literally no way he can figure this out

I got that, but for someone that used the Metaverse that often, you should take into account that it's possible for inconsistencies to be spotted. For example, the guard who turns BLACK and disappears into SMOKE after he's killed. There are plenty of ways he could figure it out.


>again, this is because sae's cognition is super lifelike outside of her specific place because she isn't all that distorted (and can thus change her heart without losing her treasure)

See smokey the guard.


I'm not saying that you're wrong, but the problem I find with this plan is the fact that EVERYTHING had to play out PERFECTLY and the Pee Thieves had NO reason to be as confidant as they were. ONE thing goes wrong, Joker is history.

The plan was unnecessarily risky for someone who had the upper-hand in the intelligence department.

Here's one: how did Shadow Kaneshiro know what the man in he black mask was doing in other people's Palaces, and also know that he was responsible for mental shutdowns, berserking, etc.?

PAN
CAKES

Also what's the point of the previous games endings?
P3 had the MC keep the door closed on the giant monster made of human malice and sins and all that.
P4 had you fight the god that was going to wipe everything to prove that humans can change and be better.
P4A1&2 had some shit, I can't keep up with it, but they killed some god or whatever.

Where all these bad dudes coming from? How come this game features "shadow selves" but they don't show up on tv like in P4?

Kaneshiro was directly involved in Shido's funding.

if most of the game is Joker's flashback then why can we see scenes that he isn't a part of?

why do the drugs only make him forget scenes where they talk about their master plan but he can remember everything else from the past 8 months just fine?

what was the point of showing the black mask killing Shadow Okumura?

when did Joker get his wildcard?

It's funny how Morgana points that out

>failed to get a confession
False.
The confession is the paper you sign at the beginning of the game.

It's funny how Naoto went from absolute dogshit in P4 gameplay-wise to absurdly broken in P4G.

> They drugged him, failed to get a confession and killed him anyway.
No, akechi killed him. the police were going to run him over the coals publicly first.

>The plan was unnecessarily risky for someone who had the upper-hand in the intelligence department.
you aren't wrong about all this, but they had enough reasonable doubt to bet on it. you keep talking about how they can just get futaba to do it or whatever but they had akechi breathing down their necks right then, they had to do something crazy like this to shake him off

>Where all these bad dudes coming from?
The collective unconciousness/sea of souls.

>How come this game features "shadow selves" but they don't show up on tv like in P4?
P5 actually does a lot to help retroactively explain how 5 games with basically completely different ways the supernatural stuff works can all fit together coherantly. the TV world was just a cognative world like the metaverse, you'll notice that futaba's entire dungeon is basically just a P4 dungeon with snazzier graphics and a different boss fight at the end. Stuff like the midnight channel is an asthetic difference because tokyo is way bigger than inaba and thus someone is way less likely to be on everyone's mind, while in a small town someone being on TV a couple times can get enough people talking about them to have a cogntive version of them appear on their TV or whatever

>what was the point of showing the black mask killing Shadow Okumura?

This was such a wasted opportunity to make the game way more interesting.

The thing is that you don't even address the main reason why the plan is retarded, that is: the body. Why why why why didn't anybody think that maybe there is more than one person involved in handling a dead body in a fucking police station and why were they RIGHT? Is Shido, apart from being corrupt, also an utter incompetent imbecile? Because that doesn't work. The writers just don't know how much burocracy enters into every single move a policeman does, and that feeling is increased when they tackle democratic elections in the dumbest way imaginable.

After the fact, everybody just acts in the most shady way possible, as if they know the assasination was fake but decided to roll with it for absolutely zero reason. Why the fuck do they not follow every member of the PT around? Because fuck you, they don't matter as much, even though they all have powers equivalent to Akechi's!

This is amplified tenfold with the fact that Akechi KILLED SOMEONE ELSE AND A POLICEMAN AT THAT (just to look cool?) and just up and forgot about it the second he went out of the goddamn room, when he should've at least reported that MC killed him with his gun, which leads to more controversy about the PT.

It just doesn't work, fuck.