Why do games still use this outdated leveling system...

Why do games still use this outdated leveling system? It makes sense that World of Warcraft and other old MMO's / RPG's used it since it used to be fine at the time, but at this point it's just a pain. Your enemies almost always scale with you so while you technically get stronger, the challenge tends to stay the same (or get harder, which defeats the purpose of leveling either way).

It also prevents you from playing with your friends. Some MMO's solved this with scaling but when it comes to that why even have leveling?

BotW for instance didn't have leveling but it did just fine. I never felt like leveling would've added anything.

Discuss.

Table Top Rpgs have even gone as far as ditching numbers entirely.

Skinner boxes sell. I don't like them, but they sell. Not only can you charge people to fight reskinned crabs for days, you can probably charge extra for the glowy club.

That's why it should be counter balanced by pvp.

>Level up
>Enemies become more difficult and require more skill/teamwork to defeat
>You are more powerful in pvp

>ditching numbers entirely
>uses an example which clearly uses numbers for all stats
Take a look at the system it was designed off of, if you want to see something which uses terms rather than numbers to represent stats.

Please master the English language before posting here.

>this outdated leveling system
"This"? What one? No example provided.

>Your enemies almost always scale with you
No, thats a specific mechanic in /some/ RPGs, not "most" by a fucking long shot.

>MMO's solved this with scaling
Good, you can shut the fuck up with this pointless whining then.

>BotW for instance
Zelda are Adventure games you absolute fucking mong, are we talking about RPGs, MMORPGs, or adventure games now? Do you even know?

What a complete spanner, this is some /r/games deep intellectual discussion, bravo 12y/o OP.

Because it's easy content that developers can mass produce.

>"This"? What one? No example provided.
The pic I posted should be clear enough for even a 10 year old to understand, but I even named WoW after that.

>No, thats a specific mechanic in /some/ RPGs, not "most" by a fucking long shot.
If not by directly scaling, the same always happens by simply putting enemies of higher levels in your path. Ultimately nothing changes.

>Good, you can shut the fuck up with this pointless whining then.
Nice argument kiddo.

>Zelda are Adventure games you absolute fucking mong, are we talking about RPGs, MMORPGs, or adventure games now? Do you even know?
It was close enough to an RPG to be a viable option and you know this.

You are WAY too fucking retarded to be on here, and to top it off you're calling me a dumb kid because YOU are too fucking dumb to even understand what I'm saying.

This. Lazy game designing.

If you tell OP to master the English language and make a grammar error the very next sentence (not counting the quote) you kinda look like a fucking retard mate.

I only find a problem with this when basic stats are tied to character level. For example, your strength goes up at a certain rate as your level goes up.

I prefer systems that award skills and/or perks for higher levels, such that if you stuck with the basic skills and equipped a stick, you'd still be able to be have a decent challenge smacking around crabs.

Unless it's a JRPG. JRPGs are all about the stats man.

>close enough
>You are WAY too fucking retarded to be on here

lmao just stop you dumb fuck

dont cheerlead yourself OP its pathetic

What? I know for me while playing games i look forward to leveling up due to those mobs that i just cant kill because they are higher level than me.
I look forward to going to that new zone that i would literally not be able to walk into without getting my shit kicked in.
Its a great sense of progression.
Unless youre saying what wow did with the most recent expansion which is scale everything to always be your level which i think is convinient but its a shit mechanic for feeling like youre actually progressing.
In facts one of the biggest reasons i dont play legion. Everything feels pointless.
Hell they even removed scaling in pvp to make everyone equal. In a fucking mmo where you play to make your character stronger on the ilvl train.

>"This"? What one? No example provided

You're on a fucking image board and you can't even fathom a post directly referencing the image it contains.

I fucking hate you new age virgins who literally believe Sup Forums is another forum like Reddit and don't understand what tje purpose of a fucking image board is.

>level 110 deer
Who thought this was a good idea?

>When your mom's boyfriend is over and you're so mad about it that you make a complete retard of yourself trying to chew out a random person online to vent your childish angst

Is your new dad's name Jeremy?

They should just get rid of level scaling

Bitter virgin autist: The Post

you are dumb af friend

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This site is 18 and up.

Camelot Unchained is forgoing levels. But expect another 5 years of waiting

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

your pic would be more accurate if for lvl 80 it was 20 guys fighting 1 giant crab.

>It makes sense that World of Warcraft and other old MMO's
>WoW
>old RPG

It's using a system that was a thing 20 years before it came out.

Just have the level cap be 20.
That's still taking you from peasant to demigod, in D&D terms.

this much autism in a single post

The real issue is everything being too solo friendly.

Because it gives the players a sense of progression while also limiting what they can/can't do, which gives the developer a greater control over players decisions and direction, thus making it a very useful -if lazy- tool for story-driven games.

What I really don't understand is why would anybody use this system in sandboxes.

Leveling systems only make sense in singleplayer games. It's basically a live form of difficulty balancing.
>If you progress quickly, you'll get less experience and the game becomes harder.
>If you progress slowly, you'll get more experience and the game becomes easier.
>If you "grind", you're admitting that the game is too hard for you right now
It's actually a great system, but people get caught up in the rewards and start grinding to see numbers increase. Then they plow through the rest of the game and complain on message boards that the game is "grindy" and "just a matter of mashing A".

In an MMO you need players to have so much to achieve that they will spend years working on it, ergo high level cap with increasing amount of work needed to get on a new level. In a game that is supposed to be played for years, so a game in which a player will spend years in combat and will have large amount of levels to achieve, it is not possible to make enough distinct creatures for every 1-5 levels (5 is max amount of levels you want to force your player to gain before he is able to fight against a stronger creature), but you need a lot of creatures with different level requirements, so you repaint them.

And you can't make monsters scale up to player's level in an MMO because over the years it's impossible to keep the player engaged with no visual diversity (christ, I used that word, eww). Monsters need to be different every few levels, even if just in terms of color, otherwise the player won't feel like progressing and will drop the game and never come back.

There are MMOs that got around this, but no one played them so who gives a shit.

>Having the challenge stay the same or get stronger is now a bad thing

You tellin' me Dragon Quest games aren't the grindiest motherfuckers to have ever been made?

Cause I find them exceptionally grindy. But the only RPGs I've ever played through more than once are Chrono Trigger and Skies of Arcadia, so...

Some games are balanced pretty terribly though. The final boss of FF4 spams an AoE that will wipe your entire party if your levels are too low, and there is nothing you can do against it because the game gives you no room in terms of customization or interesting spells.

Leveling serves many purposes. It gates abilities behind progression to slowly ramp up complexity, without forcing arbitrary milestones in quest progression that forces certain routes for certain builds.

It creates a sense of progression for the player. Having that Dragon actually being twenty times stronger than that Ogre you fought thurty hours ago actually makes it feel like your character has grown stronger and entered a larger stage.

It's a fairly simple method of gating content without arbritrary restrictions while still allowing a player to use mastery of the system to access it early.

Casuals are people too, unfortunately, so giving them the ability to grind to compensate for their lack of skill is actually a positive trait when you're trying to make a game for more than just hardcore audience.

People have a biological predisposition to enjoying the feeling brought with leveling up. Skinner boxes aren't evil if they aren't a crutch.

And so on. Yes level scaling when used by Bethesda ruins almost the entire point of it, but luckily most decent developers aren't Bethesda and use level scaling correctly.