Is turn based an oudated mechanic?

Is turn based an oudated mechanic?

It's a RPG subgenre at this point. Only Square Enix like to push this meme.

turn-based tactics games are far too rare

>inb4 the incorrect meme about turn-based having been due to technical limitations gets posted

Turn based is far superior to the kingdom hearts and ff15 battle systems

>Is turn based an oudated mechanic?
No.

Thanks for asking.

I know you don't want to have an actual discussion about this, so we'll leave it at that.

No
That UI is disgusting though, is that a mobile port?

Yeah. RPG combat should be at it's simplest like Dark Souls and at most complicated like Mount and Blade.

Turn based 'jrpg' style combat and Elder Scrolls "rag doll slashy doodle doo" combat suck monkey nads.

Persona 5's very recent success says no

In the sense of the classic JRPG style. Yes. It's too brain dead to offer any legit interesting tactics, and too slow to make for a good action game. It's just not very engaging.

Turn based tactics in the style of games like Divinity OS for example offers a fairly complex experience that keeps it interesting, and often allows for more in depth tactics than real time games.

In the case of 4X/Grand strategy games if it's turn based or real time changes how the game plays on a fundamental level(one being more like a board game and the other more like a simulation) and both can make for equally fun games.

no

There is a fucking lot that can be done with turn based combat, games like Dragon Quest and SMT are certainly outdated but they're just a small part of what turn based combat is now.

Hell, Pokemon still sells like hotcakes and it's an utterly simple turn-based game (Sun and Moon were garbage games. Wishiwashi's cool though)

Pokemon is more complex than Persona tho.

Turn based is nice when you're out of it and want to play something super low effort.

This.

Also, is chess an outdated game?

>tmw the only turn based RPG I fondly remember is Sonic RPG in Newgrounds
Am I a pleb?

SRPGs are the only turn-based genre that can actually claim to be difficult. Even "hard" JRPGs like many SMT games are only modestly difficult.

No, turn based is fun when done well. The problem is most jrpgs put too little focus on their gameplay.

Turn based combat without positional considerations or complete freedom of movement is dogshit pleb tier JRPG garbage that needs to die.

Grid or Hex based turn based combat is god tier.

While I agree with that I also don't think high difficulty is a necessity in games.

Having more things to cosider during the combat certainly makes it deeper, more engaging and generally more fun but positioning isn't the only way to achieve that, but understand that you think that, there are very few turn based games without it that are actually deep.

It isn't, but harder games tend to be better than easier ones, at least in those games where the difficulty stems from complexity.
I think FF5 is a good game, for example, but it's very easy. A harder JRPG like Strange Journey is more fulfilling to play, and an SRPG like any Fire Emblem even more so.

>there are very few turn based games without it that are actually deep.

Got any examples?

Nah, but so many games have done cool things with it that if it's purely turn based I'd consider it a boring and low effort game.

Like Shadow Hearts is turn based but it has the judgement ring, position based AoE spells, and most recently the ability to combo turns between your team mates and knock them up/out of the air like some kind of tactical fighting game.

Or I really liked Mana Khemia where you could perform big combo attacks by subbing out characters and there were ways to fuck around with the turn order. Like if you see a big enemy attack show up in the turn list, this guy could erase the space between two characters turns and prevent that big attack from ever happening. I guess recently Xenoblade Chronicles was a turn based game that used a similar mechanic with the monado's prophetic powers.

The jrpg roguelikes ala Etrian Odyssey or Class of Heroes were also pretty good

>Xenoblade Chronicles
Not turn based at all.

yes. turn based games are boring as fuck.

You could move around freely but it's a turn based game just like Final Fantasy 12.

I wish Active Time Battle never got popular, it's just Turn Based Combat with manufactured wait times.

Move speed could potentially be fucked over if you press something wrong because you're rushing or if you're not using shortcuts, so enemies can get a free hit. It's trying to be more intense, but it feels cheap instead.

No, it isn't. FF12 is essentially real-time-with-pause and Xenoblade is the same but without pausing except in special circumstances.

I don't know OP, is chess outdated?

No, but it's hard to do right. Too often the early game gets boring because they ease you into it by only giving you a few spells, and since that means you have no options in combat these spells needs to be ultra effective. Another problem is when games fail to balance the new spells you acquire so that every new spell will be an absolute powerhouse that just does way more damage/healing than anything else you have available rather than offering new utility. Lastly the RNG elements are usually too pronounced. I actually liked Child of Light's combat, they had an unique take on the standard turn based formula.

No, turn based games are my favorites. I just bought some turn based jrpgs on steam today

I thought 12 had the option to play real time without pause, or maybe I was thinking of 10-2.

of course it isn't. It's not like real-time is new either.

No, but you need to mix it up.
ATB is very played out.

Legend of Legacy
Bravely Default
Radiant Historia
Seventh Dragon
Pokemon
Just a reminder that deep combat doesn't mean the game is good, some of these lack variety of just feel unfinished in other areas even if the combat is actually good

no but their are just way too many battles that will playout with the attack attack heal pattern

It's really not that much more complex. Besides, those mechanics are irrelevant outside of multiplayer/battle facilities.

Yes

it's not just the extra mechanics like abilities, held items, natures, EVs and IVs, the move variety is huge in comparison too.
but yeah, it's mostly irrelevant for single player.

No. What the fuck does that even mean?

If I remember right yes you can turn on/off the ability to make bringing up the menu pause the game

That's the one thing I really like about the Etrian Odyssey games where status ailments are actually effective and important. Even in 3 where status ailments are absolutely garbage and last for 1 turn after you land it, I got really far with a farmer to put everything to sleep and then my arbalist has an attack that deal tons of damage to statused (sleeping) enemies.

There is that option, yes.

Pretty much, there needs to be auto battle for those encounters, or just straight up auto kills because they are not entertaining nor challenging in the slightest.

Any game that requires you to think or optimize decisions isn't outdated

Kids these days are increasingly ADHD though, which could be the reason for a lack of any good new ones

Multiplayer/Battle Facilties are often the only content that actually end up mattering though

No but random battles are outdated. Just started playing FF4 and holy crap is it annoying. Not sure how I tolerated all the 3D FF a long time ago.

This is like asking if D&D is an outdated game. Turns are at the heart of classic RPGs, same goes with rolls.

Legend of Legacy is neat but its RNG approach to levelling and learning skills is ass

No. Every major publisher including Square Enix seems to think it is though.

Well, Dwarf Fortress is a thing, so no.

PSP version has auto battle, atleast.

I think personally that Indivisble (or at least from what i played of the prototype) uses ATB better than most ATB games ever made solely because the combat is faster paced and has combo mechanics derivative of fighting games

>At most complicated like Mount and Blade.

You mean Dwarf Fortress, right?

>icons
What the fuck is this stupid MacOS level bullshit?

Dragon Quest had turn based combat for ages and did it well, then they made a couple action games (builders, heroes) and the combat in those was mediocre at best.

Turn-based combat banzai

>be me as a kid
>play dragon quest
It was pretty great!

LOL

FF15 yes
KH no

I wanna play FF IX for the first time, on PC
Are there any special packs to get? Or just regular iso's and an emulator?

FF12 has the option to play in real time or wait, players choice.

Turn based can be a mechanic in some system, but having turns alone is not an outdated mechanic. A turn based game can still be engaging. See most games played on a tabletop.

I'll assume you mean turned based combat in video games, in which case I'd agree that there are a lot of devs who aren't doing anything interesting with it.

Darkest Dungeon adds a lot of positioning dependencies, which adds depth at a minimal complexity cost. The inclusion of two types of damage (hp and stress) and different consequences for taking that damage make deciding which enemies to defeat first a meaningful decision. As well, debuffs and status ailments can be debilitating both short term and long term. The information about all of these things is readily available, so there is little trial and error insofar as learning what enemies can do goes. Each decision has a consequence. Good decisions give you consequences you can deal with. Mashing a basic attack skill will almost certainly leave you dead.

The Mario & Luigi games are turn based, but the action commands involved in both attacking and defending, and the lack of randomness, reward skillful timing and careful observation of enemy HP.

SMT and Persona reward and punish attacks based on enemy weaknesses. In old SMT games, using weaknesses dealt massive damage to enemies, far beyond the scope of doubling it.

Turn based combat needs more depth to be engaging.

It's the only good way to involve more than one character in the gameplay. AI companions blow dick in each and every game they are in. Being a one man army is boring, and there are plenty of ways to mix up turn based gameplay.

Game mechanics don't get outdated.

It's sort of true from the era of paper RPG that the first generations of computer RPG tried to replicate.

Like anything, turn-based has it's proper time and place.

But the way you say it is kinda silly.
It's like if a person criticized music saying,

"Is C an outdated key of music?

Music doesn't age or change.
It's just you.

>3rd person """rpg"""

I have honestly never understood the appeal. I mean in every JRPG, they are clearly the worst part of the entire game...And yet they talk up 95% of the playtime. I just don't get it. In JRPGs I love the epic stories, the awesome music, exploring the towns, but the battles are just so tedious and boring.

It's not that I don't like strategy, it's just that more often than not the battles are just way too frequent, and often is just a game of healing at the right time. It sucks exploring a dungeon and being interrupted every 5 seconds.

I even hate the pseudo-"real time" stuff in Chrono Trigger. The only tolerable game with turn based combat I've played is Mario and Luigi because you can actually dodge the attacks. To me Secret of Mana is really how JRPGs should be made.

It's still the best way to control a party of multiple characters.

nah. its a super fun thing but modern graphics prevented it from happening on any recent games.
ffx for example looks weird with Turn based combat

Pokemon was designed from the ground up around being a multiplayer game though. It's not like it's not an important aspect.

Real time or simultaneous board games are a mess. Some can be a fun party mess, but not really a competitively engaging mess. many are just a stinky mess.

That doesn't happen with video games. You have a computer to make all sorts of calculations for you on the fly, and can have people interact with the game from completely different points. All the downsides of real time board games don't exist with video games.

Turn based was a necessity in board games. In video games, it exists mostly due to nostalgia and incompetence.

I don't like turn-based in modern games, but I like older turn-based games that'll I go back and play. So outdated, I guess. But if there's people that still would buy them, then I guess not.

Like any thing, depends on how it's done and it's not for everyone.

No.

Turn based combat is most definitely not outdated when handled correctly. Games like Pokemon and even SMT to a degree have their merit, but are easily outshined by games that use turn based mechanics in a real time setting. I'm not talking about FF7 limit either, because that is just so synthetic and aggravating, it tricks you into feeling skilled. But games like Dark Souls, Fire Emblem, and even Resonance of Fate expand on the idea of turn based combat and are all rewarding in their own rights, even though their liberties taken from the original concept vary quite drastically.

Most games have their roots in turn based combat, its just harder to realize youre literally waiting to attack.

Anyone?

Yes. It was broken by AI years ago.

No, but the game has to be difficult. If it's easy then turn based combat makes it tedious, if it's difficult it makes it strategic and tense. Every boss should kill you at least once, preferably twice. Normal enemies should require a bit of knowledge and strategy.

This is why Legaia is the best game

>Fire Emblem
>Resonance of Fate

Sure.

>Dark Souls

What.

>youre literally waiting to attack.

That's not what taking turns means and you know it.

Legaia was a neat system but it is quite possibly THE most tedious RPG I have ever played. Grinding for Seru, all spell and attack animations being long as hell, random encounter rate was fairly high.... It was tough sure but I don't understand how it isn't tedious.

Sure, Dark Souls expanded on the idea of turn-based combat...

...by foregoing it entirely.
What are you on about?

KH2 has better combat than turn based shit

In all seriousness, I thought switching characters in GTA V in the middle of combat was pretty neat.

There's a lot of tedium there, you're right. I more mean it was difficult. Honestly it's not a great example of what I'm talking about, but damn do I love that game.

RPGs are an outdated genre.

Fair enough. I keep thinking about replaying it but I just don't think I have what it takes for that kind of game these days.

I've been slowly going back and replaying the ps1 era JRPGs. I was in the same boat. What I'm doing is having my buddy come over, he's been trying to 100% every Kingdom Hearts game. So we play on the couch and get to share the games with each other. Makes the whole thing more fun.
Hell, if you can't do something similar then maybe even try streaming it.

no

cool thread tho

That's why you play its daddy instead

ive never understood how to play these games. is it normal to fight every single enemy you come across? or is it normal to run away a lot? if i run away i end up being under-leveld, but it just seems ridiculous to expect you to fight every/most enemies as it gets so fucking boring

That depends on the game, but typically it's kill everything in sight.

>press a button
>game tells the character to attack
well it's the same in zelda desu

just buy it on Steam like everyone else.

Turn based makes sense when you're controlling the actions of multiple characters. The way I see it, the problem with SE is that since FFXI they've been pushing combat towards a single character perspective while delegating party members to alternative control methods, whether that's other players, programmable commands, or plain automated combat.

Although they're completely different styles of play, I feel like XIV and XV both suffer from the same conceptual flaw that the player must be actively engaged in controlling their character at all moments, which isn't the case and wasn't a flaw for any of the previous FF titles.

>is it normal to fight every single enemy you come across?
no
fleeing is standard for me in ff games at least

one time in ff5 while doing a solo run I decided to not ever run and go for the brave sword, but that's like the only time.
Was kinda interesting with just one character, since different places were locked to me essentially, since you can't just fight your way through with 1 character at those times, also learning lvl 5 death wasn't possible

I guess maybe it was with a mix command in retrospect

also most of the talent has left, no one listens to them anymore or both