From a capitalist viewpoint, how is pirating video games not bad or morally wrong?

From a capitalist viewpoint, how is pirating video games not bad or morally wrong?

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darkknightarmoury.com/p-42330-14th-century-articulated-gauntlets.aspx
the-toast.net/2014/05/27/ayn-rands-harry-potter-sorcerers-stone/
the-toast.net/2014/06/02/ayn-rands-harry-potter-chamber-secrets/
the-toast.net/2014/06/18/ayn-rands-harry-potter-prisoners-collectivism/
the-toast.net/2014/07/29/ayn-rands-harry-potter/
the-toast.net/2014/09/10/ayn-rands-harry-potter-order-psycho-epistemology/
the-toast.net/2015/02/12/ayn-rands-harry-potter-half-blood-prince/
the-toast.net/2015/04/09/ayn-rands-harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows/
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From a capitalist viewpoint it's 100% wrong
You'd have to be a socialist to think pirating is ok

I wonder who's behind this post.

user is correct. it is a moral sin to infringe upon property rights

From a capitalist viewpoint pirating is totally fine because it signifies that markets aren't properly fulfilling the needs of consumers.
Most piraters (who aren't soon-to-be-homeless-dead-fucks-due-to-bad-choices) are doing so because they don't have easy access to the content for a reasonable price. Fix it, and it disappears.

See: Netflix.
But the bigger problem is these retarded regulations that nations come up with to defend their 'digital property' which creates insane rules where you have to pay exorbitant fees just to enjoy anime - or get locked out of content another continent fully enjoys on netflix but you can't.

How can they fix it when the price they're competing against is $0?

This. I miss when Steam called piracy a service problem.

And honestly I've found myself pirating less now that Steam gets most of the games I want and on sale.

That sounds like you're just an entitled millennial.

Buying a game is a guarantee that it works and gets updated. Provide a service that you can't get through piracy and the problem fixes itself.

As a bonus, not a requirement.

The price isn't competing against $0 though. What's happening for a lot of people is they go on steam because a game is released, see it would take literally a full weeks worth of work just to buy it (in comparison to other nations where it's ~6ish hours), and then turn to piracy.

Those who are pirating because it's free (when they fully have the means to pay for it) will always pirate regardless of how accessible and cheap it is, and so they should be treated as an invisible.

k

Check out these gauntlets: darkknightarmoury.com/p-42330-14th-century-articulated-gauntlets.aspx

They look pretty neat, but I don't want to pay $168 for them. So I get some metal, learn to smith, and make my own gauntlets just like them. Is that theft? Do I owe these guys money for something I created, just because I used their design?

Software piracy is the same thing, but it's much easier for me to make my own copy of a file than it is to copy some gauntlets.

Game companies like to look at piracy rates as 'lost sales'. But most of them wouldn't have bought the game in the first place.

>charge $60+ for a game that is basically the same as the last game they made, but a few "improvements"

Ya, no, fuck them. They can learn to charge decent prices right from the start and see how many people stop pirating their rip off of a game.

>Hershey likes to count stolen bars as 'lost sales' but most of them wouldn't have paid for it in the first place

Look at this game.

It looks pretty neat, but I don't want to pay $59.99 + Season Pass Access for it. So, I get a computer, learn to program, and make my own game just like it. Is that theft? Do I owe Todd Howard for something I created, just because I used their design?

Software piracy is the same thing, but it's much easier for me to code, program, voice act/sound design, level design, etc for me to make my own copy, than it is to come some gauntlets.

If you believe in intellectual property, then your argument is shit. If you don't then, then good for you.

It's not even close to being the same. Stealing a physical object IS a lost sale. Piracy is not.

Copied bars not stolen, there's no loss of the actual product

*Game industry execs like to present piracy as lost sales because it explains their failure to meet unrealistic sales goals.

...

Actually, a better food analogy would be that companies consider food stolen out of a dumpster to be a lost sale. At that point, the thief insists that they would not have purchased the item anyway. The biggest problem is when the thief turns around and attempts to make a profit on the stolen goods

Which you could then provide your own services which would mean you then have the funds to pay for future investments which in turn benefits the community.
Now if only more people pirated tools for the future instead of boring transformer movies but alas~

A lot of game publishers these days though have a lot of scapegoats they love to blame. Square enix does it a whole lot. Adapt or die really. Actually stick up for consumers, get rewarded. It's how steam became an empire.

If the product was on a convenient platform or of a higher quality it would not be pirated

It's not even a question of intellectual property though. If I make a burger in my kitchen am I stealing from McDonald's? I could have bought a burger from them, but instead I got one for free.

It's only an intellectual property issue if I'm trying to profit off their idea. If I'm making my own for personal use than why should I care about all the people I COULD have bought it from?

not really. free as in freedom software is 100% in line with free market principles.

pirating is 100% morally wrong, no one is saying otherwise.

the problem is no one gives a shit because why would you pay for entertainment if you dont have to

So let's say someone rapes a prostitute. They have enjoyed the services for free, and the vagina is still there for other people to use. Is that ok then?

Something that is infinitely reproducible doesn't fit the classic definition of a commodity and really can't be stolen.

fuck off
piracy is bad
i'll do it anyway, cause guess what, i don't fucking care.

>pirating software is equivalent to learning a skill and purchasing resources to make something you want

Moron

Capitalism is a "survival of the fittest" way of running things. Without competition, businesses have no need to innovate and progress is halted in the name of profits (until a new competitor comes along). These innovations ensure that companies can keep the loyalty and interests of a consumer base (with the implicit understanding that the consumers can spend their money elsewhere). As such, if businesses can not provide a piece of work that is good enough to be paid for, then they should have no entitlement to the consumer's money.

If a game is shitty, and the creators don't give a damn that I paid them for a poor quality product, then I don't give a damn if they are upset that I've found a risk free alternative. Sink or swim bitch

No because that's rape.

piracy can be solved by the free market. deregulate everything. god bless

It's not if you make a burger. That's not what McDicks is really selling you.

This isn't what they're really selling you and if Chinese law respected international copyright law, then they'd be getting fucked for shit like this.

Are they selling the game legitimately and attempting to make it available to all customers? Then yes, I say piracy is wrong.

Is the game out of production and isn't being sold, and hasn't been sold for decades, probably with the rights not even being purchased by anyone else? Tell me why piracy is bad here.

So then why not make your own games? That is your exact analogy

When OiNK was shut down (music torrent site from many years ago) somebody wrote an article about how it answered a demand that markets like iTunes weren't fulfilling, and that if somebody could monetize the idea of a massive music repository, consumers would naturally follow. I thought it was mostly bullshit handwringing from somebody who just wanted to justify stealing music.

Fast forward to 2017 and almost no normies torrent music now. Streaming services finally met that demand.

Amoral capitalism allows me to justify the amoral nature of piracy. If you think it's okay for you to cut your product into half (Deus Ex) or Pieces (Hitman) or you want to appeal to the Chinese-Warehouse-Farm market (Diablo III) then don't expect me to give you money.

Furthermore, if you continue with shoddy and amoral practices, I will continue my amoral practice of pirating your software. Ubisoft killed Sam Fisher, Ghost Recon, and Rainbow Six- so they don't get my money. EA has killed too many to count, so they never, ever get my money. Corporations have burned out all the goodwill they had built up with me, and i'm too old to have been indoctrinated into the generation that has solely grown up in a world of micro-transactions and DLCs. I remember a time when a game was a whole, single, complete, marvelous product made to push a boundary or do something intriguing.

>“Give me your wand, boy,” Voldemort hissed.

>“I cannot do that. This wand represents my wealth, which is itself a tangible result of my achievements. Wealth is the product of man’s capacity to think,” Harry said bravely.

>Voldemort gasped.

>“There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: the fashionable non-conformist.”

>Voldemort began to melt. Harry lit a cigarette, because he was the master of fire.

>“The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. The minimum wage is a tax on the successful. The market will naturally dictate the minimum wage without the government stepping in to determine arbitrary limits.”

>Voldemort howled.

>“I’m going to sell copies of my wand at an enormous markup,” Harry said, “and you can buy one like everyone else.”

>Voldemort had been defeated.

>“He hated us for our freedom,” Ron said.

>“No, Ron,” Harry said. “He hated us for our free markets.”

>Hermione ached with desire for the both of them to master her, but nobody paid her any attention. They had empires to build.

this desu

Hard to say.

Well anyone who doubts this should ask themselves why they think it's more reasonable to consider most citizens of their country criminals than it is to expect companies to adapt to the new realities of the market.

But if you can have any item for free, why not do that? It's the smartest thing to do.

I would argue that copying a game is the most efficient way of creating one.

From a capitalist viewpoint, anything that doesn't involve you forking over every last penny you have is bad.

br here. was working an unskilled half-period job and i could buy one game on steam for 6 hours of work... or one console game for 16-20 hours.

that said i havent pirated games in years, and i really dont know anyone that pirates pc games anymore because steam is too convenient and it's "cool" to have a thicc library
i know a couple actually broke people who just play f2p games on steam, but still dont pirate

False equivalency. A vagina's quality goes down marginally with every usage, thereby you have consumed the product. A prostitutes time is wasted when you are banging her for free, thereby more money is lost

Now if someone cloned that prostitute and then raped her

Because once I started making big boy money, spending a few bucks on steam was worth saving the time that would have otherwise been looking for and vetting a torrent/looking for unofficial patches on dead/dying websites made in the mid 2000s.

Pirating VNs is still easy enough personally.
And if I know a game has a GOG copy, finding a megaupload is normally too easy.

It can be a huge pain in the ass to find a working version that doesn't have some assbackwards boot operation or glitches out the wazoo. I'd rather pay when its worth the money. It's just the developers are charging significantly more than their product is honestly worth

is this not a Recettear thread?

GoG would take you to court for pirating their games. It has happened before.

Does capitalism even inherently address the idea of theft?

Spoken like a true communist. utterly ignorant and ridiculous.

Capitalism allows you to purchase a good or service if you want it, if you're not ok with the price then don't buy it.

Also, Piracy is amoral through any and all lenses.

>A free market has the capacity to exist when a handful of entities have a silent gentlemans agreement through the collective mass of wealth and ruination or hostile-purchasing of their competition to control the markets context

'Free Market' thinkers are worse than Theologians- because at least Theologians try and utilize moral truths.

yes, of course. Theft hurts everyone invested in the market, including consumers.

How?

Good luck, I'm behind 7 VPNs.
I don't care about IP law unless it affects me personally and even then, I don't care that much. I'll take my chances.

You've got it all backwards.

The publishers are charging those prices.

The publishers pay a developer company a fixed amount for developing a game (a contract basically), plus an outlandishly small royalty fee for each sale after release.

The game is basically owned by the publishers, and they can charge whatever the fuck they want for it. (even sell the ip after it made some money *cough ea cough*)

>“You’re a wizard, Harry,” Hagrid said. “And you’re coming to Hogwarts.”

>“What’s Hogwarts?” Harry asked.

>“It’s wizard school.”

>“It’s not a public school, is it?”

>“No, it’s privately run.”

>“Good. Then I accept. Children are not the property of the state; everyone who wishes to do so has the right to offer educational goods or services at a fair market rate. Let us leave at once.”

You're right, I placed the blame on the wrong shoulders. Replace every instance of "developer" with "publisher"

Tell that to the MANDATORY BY LAW auto insurance company that's ripping thousands of dollars off me each year for no fucking reason at all...

I haven't had an accident in over 20 years.

t-thanks capitalism

>Professor Snape stood at the front of the room, sort of Jewishly. “There will be no foolish wand-waving or silly incantations in this class. As such, I don’t expect many of you to appreciate the subtle science and exact art that is potion-making. However, for those select few who possess, the predisposition…I can teach you how to bewitch the mind and ensnare the senses. I can tell you how to bottle fame, brew glory, and even put a stopper in death.”

>Harry’s hand shot up.

>“What is it, Potter?” Snape asked, irritated.

>“What’s the value of these potions on the open market?”

>“What?”

>“Why are you teaching children how to make these valuable products for ourselves at a schoolteacher’s salary instead of creating products to meet modern demand?”

>“You impertinent boy–“

>“Conversely, what’s to stop me from selling these potions myself after you teach us how to master them?”

>“I–“

>“This is really more of a question for the Economics of Potion-Making, I guess. What time are econ lessons here?”

>“We have no economics lessons in this school, you ridiculous boy.”

>Harry Potter stood up bravely. “We do now. Come with me if you want to learn about market forces!”

>The students poured into the hallway after him. They had a leader at last.

I seriously don't get the auto insurance meme

Because theft leads to shitty practices like Denuvo.
Because companies have a right to protect their IPs, but unfortunately it would also mean taking measures against their costumers.

Just don't pirate.

That's a function of society, not capitalism necessarily. Not that I'm not in support of drivers being forced to protect themselves and do something to absorb the cost of accidents, same as with health care one day. It benefits society, not having unprotected people going around, causing accidents and consuming social services without the cash to pay for the face value of their mistakes.

Libertarian here (basically the only capitalist ideology still alive in the world). This is an economy lesson you will only find on the most advanced books, so value it.

Piracy is not bad and I will explain why.

First of all, prices exist because goods are scarce. Should they not be scarce, they'd not have a price. Air is not scarce, so you don't have to pay for it unless it actually is scarce, such as when diving underwater. Water is not scarce, you don't have to pay for it, but transportation and purification is, so you pay for that if you can't do it by yourself.

This is economy 101 and it's still not known by anyone outside of libertarianism and maybe some radical liberalism, like Milton Friedman tier or Hayek tier.

One more thing about scarce goods is that you can't use the same scarce good at the same time as someone else. Pens are incredibly cheap and abundant, but if I take your pen while you are using it you will be unable to use yours. Only one of us can have that pen, this means it will probably have a price.

Now, there is a way to make non-scarce goods seem scarce artificially. You do that by putting a price on them. Videogames are not scarce and torrenting is proof of this -- they can be provided for no cost at all. Just open up your favorite tracker and take a look, that is the real nature of videogames and software in general.

That $60 tag is purely artificial. It is not the result of a real market of prices, of demand and supply, since supply is endless.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is impossible to sell an idea or a software. Surely it is, but all these companies are doing it wrong. And we will never be able to do it as long as the State exists anyway, so just pirate the hell out of it.

Allow me to finish this by saying that Intellectual property is the real socialism. Grow a pair. Read Rothbard, Hayek, Hoppe, Mises or something

>>>The students poured into the hallway after him. They had a leader at last.

But why would they take those measures?

I really wish it was just a meme.

Basically if you don't have insurance you can't legally drive here.
If you get caught they'll take your license away and prohibit you from driving for like 5 years afterwards.
They can even put you in jail for it.

All because auto insurance companies lobby during elections and pay politicians off who in return make these retarded as fuck laws.

And now every single driver is required by law to pay outlandish prices each month for something they'll probably never need or use.

it is wrong, the problem is that the opposite is much worse.

You crash into someone's new car and owe them lots of money.
No insurance, can't pay, he's fucked and you're fucked for lack of capacity to make restitution/fix your own car let alone theirs.

With insurance? Companies get to hope you don't crash and that they end up making money off you not crashing but paying. If you do crash, they (operating in good faith) pay for the accident that you otherwise couldn't and probably raise your premiums because you prove yourself to be a risky customer.
If you're low risk? They charge you less for insurance because they're pretty sure you won't fuck them by making them pay out more than you pay them.

>mandated by law

not capitalism, pure capitalism allows for no intervention by the state into the economy or economic influence upon the law

That's the exact fucking opposite of capitalism you tool.

If I had to define capitalism in simple words, it'd be: Being free to use your property however you want.

If you are forced to do something it's definitely not capitalism.

>I haven't had an accident in over 20 years.

>20 years

So assuming you were 16/17 when you got your license, and you have been driving for 20 years. That means you are roughly around 37 years old.

You're 37, on Sup Forums, actively complaining about capitalism. It's like you never stopped being 14. Dude, it's time to either call it a day or grow up.


>But why would they take those measures?


Because they work? Denuvo has stopped piracy in huge numbers. Most big releases that have it haven't been cracked yet.

But why would they want to stop piracy?

>But why would they want to stop piracy?

I'm not even sure why I'm replying to this question. Because they don't want to lose potential sales due to piracy.

If you were not forced to hire insurance anymore what would you call it? Socialism?

This board is full of idiots, damn it

>prices exist because goods are scarce
You don't believe products that are expensive in terms of r&d shouldn't charge a price that reflects that?

If it doesn't cost me a lot to produce something, but reaching the point of production was expensive, then isn't it reasonable that, through IP law, I'm allowed to profit off of something that might otherwise be reproduced easily once the work of initial production is complete?

The problem is not protecting people.

Everybody and their dog knows that auto insurance companies will take THE VICTIMS to court just so they don't have to pay anything.

That is partially why it's so expensive, because lawyers are making a killing leeching off the tit of auto insurance companies.

They all just point fingers at each other and suddenly nobody is responsible for me spending almost 2k a year on a service that I've never fucking used or needed.

That's hardly a function of society.

But they're not

But then they're limiting exposure to their products.

communism when

Fuckin' hell has this always been a meme?
I now have a strong thirst for capitalism/socialism memes.

From a capitalist viewpoint, you'd be fucking retarded to pay money for a good or service you can get for free. Are you a commie?

when you fuck off to another country and do it there on your own.

I heard Venezuela is doing well with it right now.

>That's hardly a function of society.
By definition, it is, but that's beside the point.

>because lawyers
Taken with the preceding sentence, the fault should really be on the capitalist. Their sole pursuit of profit justifies this behavior. Lawyers are just tools.

Capitalism isn't a moral framework, and shouldn't be interpreted as one.

Sage for bait that's tangentially related to video games.

Firstly, forget IP law, that's a socialist measure created by the State. And it is ridiculous.

Assume that you develop an amusing and efficient technique to work the fields. And assume that, some months later, a man comes upon it by himself too. Then a government agent appears and says he can't work his fields that way because someone else has already done it and that technique is their intellectual property.

That'd be pretty ridiculous.

Now, for things that require research and development, of course you can charge a price for it, that's what people already do. The key here is whether it is unlawful or not to pirate it. By default - using nature and the economy's laws - it isn't. But it can be unlawful if you establish that with the costumer in a contract. For example, if I sell you a book and write a contract that specifically says "You will not distribute, copy or share this book with anyone else under the penalty of [legal consequences]" and have you voluntarily sign it, then we would have a deal.

But most books, video games and etc are sold without such contract. People really on the government's IP laws but these are worthless to anyone that actually values capitalism. And even if you actually made such contract, it'd be redeemed illegal by the State.

In the end piracy comes down to your morality,
because ethically speaking (using capitalism' ethic and libertarian ethic) it's perfectly OK under the current state of things.

the-toast.net/2014/05/27/ayn-rands-harry-potter-sorcerers-stone/
the-toast.net/2014/06/02/ayn-rands-harry-potter-chamber-secrets/
the-toast.net/2014/06/18/ayn-rands-harry-potter-prisoners-collectivism/
the-toast.net/2014/07/29/ayn-rands-harry-potter/
the-toast.net/2014/09/10/ayn-rands-harry-potter-order-psycho-epistemology/
the-toast.net/2015/02/12/ayn-rands-harry-potter-half-blood-prince/
the-toast.net/2015/04/09/ayn-rands-harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows/

Yeah pretty close.

But what does "growing up" have to do with capitalism. Please explain.

Going by that logic, the older I get, the happier I should be about getting ripped off?

Yes, they are. A lot of people pirating wouldn't buy the product, but others definitely would if they couldn't pirate.

>But then they're limiting exposure to their products.

What? Not at all, the product is very much visible. Those that are interested are welcome to buy it. giving it away for free does not benefit them, as well as the developers involved in the products. How is it this hard for you grasp that pirating is not beneficial to anyone involved?

There's always some shithole else where for you. or invent a time machine and go to Soviet Russia and feast on dogs and children.

“Give me your wand, boy,” Voldemort hissed.

“I cannot do that. This wand represents my wealth, which is itself a tangible result of my achievements. Wealth is the product of man’s capacity to think,” Harry said bravely.

Voldemort gasped.

“There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: the fashionable non-conformist.”

Voldemort began to melt. Harry lit a cigarette, because he was the master of fire.

“The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. The minimum wage is a tax on the successful. The market will naturally dictate the minimum wage without the government stepping in to determine arbitrary limits.”

Voldemort howled.

“I’m going to sell copies of my wand at an enormous markup,” Harry said, “and you can buy one like everyone else.”

Voldemort had been defeated.

“He hated us for our freedom,” Ron said.

“No, Ron,” Harry said. “He hated us for our free markets.”

Hermione ached with desire for the both of them to master her, but nobody paid her any attention. They had empires to build.

A lot of people wouldn't buy a product if they didn't know about it

>But what does "growing up" have to do with capitalism.


because most of us (if you're smart) grew out the 14 year old edgelord mentality. for me at least is to invest in the career I want so I can live the life I want to when I'm older, always planning ahead.

If you're 37, you've had plenty of time to plan for the future.

>Going by that logic, the older I get, the happier I should be about getting ripped off?

No, it's that the older you get the higher the income and quality of life you have. It sounds like whatever situation you are living in is your fault.

say it with me
>pre-order

Can you speak on this in terms of pharmaceutical research? Agriculture is a bit of an absurd reduction for other industries.

>using nature and...
So, do I have it right that there's nothing wrong with being undercut by someone with the means to produce and no research expense to account for?

Piracy has nothing to do with that. If you can browse piracy website, you will encounter an online store with that product beforehand. Stop trying to justify your shittyness

Daily reminder that markets and state intervention are both useful tools and totalizing one or the other and making it your ideology based on unfalsifiable beliefs about how an unfettered market or stateless scarcity-free socialism would behave is kike-tier.
Ancap is even more of a meme than communism.

That constitutes knowing about it and illustrates exactly why piracy is so powerful.

Not talking about pirates, but the people who interact with pirates who then find out about the product.