I loved Ace Attorney 1, but I think 2 & 3 are terrible

I played and beat the original Ace Attorney back in 2007. I loved it. All of it, even 1-5.

I finally got around to Justice For All in 2013. But I had to force myself to finish it. 2-1 was meh, and 2-2 was simply boring, and 2-3 was absolutely horrible and made me stop playing the game for months. But ultimately I did finish it by sheer determination, not enjoyment. The only case I kinda liked was 2-4, although I found it overrated.

So now it's 2017 and I'm trying to get through Trials & Tribulations. I ho-hummed through 3-1 just fine. But I did not enjoy 3-2, I found that case to be boring, overwrought, and way too long. Then I got to 3-3 and was immediately turned off by its exclusive characters, particularly the flamboyant chef. I'm also sick to death of idiotic Maya constantly blabbing her mouth and making investigations take twice as long as they should. She was tedious in AA2 and in AA3 she's even MORE annoying.

Anyway, my point is not to complain, so much as it is to say I'm confused. I know Shu Takumi wrote and directed AA1, AA2, and AA3. How in the world AA1 could be so good, and then AA2 and AA3 such a decline, I simply can't fathom.

I'm still interested in the other games. I own AJ:AA, AAI1, AAI2, PLvsPW, DD, and SoJ... because I'm a game hoarder but also because I had high hopes. I know some of those sequels weren't written by Shu Takumi and frankly I'm OK with that given how shoddy AA2 and AA3 are. (However he wrote and directed Ghost Trick and I loved that game... very hit and miss guy.) It's like Shu Takumi just chose to amp up all the wrong things with AA2 and AA3... especially over the top characters and their cartoonish antics. Not to mention endless diatribes by goofy Maya and equally derpy Pearl. (I like Mia however.)

Is there ANYONE else out there who found AA2 and AA3 to be noticeably less enjoyable then AA1? If so, did things improve for you with later sequels? Is there another AA that hits the high marks of AA1? Or maybe I'm just weird.

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Apollo Justice is pretty good. Especially the first case is a textbook example of tension building.
And TaT is as good as Ace attorney IMHO.

Most people agree that 2-1 and 2-3 are bad cases. I think most people like 3-2. 3-3 is kind of ehh, but it has a fun ending.

3-4 and 3-5 are the best cases in that game.

AA2 is worse than AA1 across the board, and 3-3 is awful (fitting it was a cut case from AA2, it belongs there.) 3-4 and 3-5 are excellent though, so the game in general gets a pass from me. I still liked Maya and Pearl at the time though.

One word for you:
Godot

3-4 and 3-5 are worth it.

The problem is that the creator didn't know it would be what it is today, a fairly big franchise. He was, like many people in 2001, writing games with the idea that it would probably be the only one they made in that series. Mia's death was meant to go at the end of game 1 as the emotional showdown, and 2-4 would've been the final case of the trilogy

I understand where you're coming from and I'd say it's subjective. Justice For All has a lot of things wrong with it, but I love Trials and Tribulations. The gameplay additions (besides divination seance) in DD and SOJ are welcome, and the investigations games are excellent, I dunno why they're disliked

I don't know if Kay actually single-handedly ruined Investigations, but it sure feels that way.

>(besides divination seance)
Really? That was actually one of my favourite gimmicks. Certainly better than the psychology tests.

Investigations 1 has shitty pacing and an ending that drags way too long. Investigations 2 is probably my favourite in the series, though. It really captures the AA1 feeling.

>over the top characters and their cartoonish antics
Get ready for more of that in the post-Trilogy games.

skip AJ

Oh fuck off AJ is a cool game

I do think that AA1 had a kind of tone to it that's missing in later games, but I chalk it up to the fact that it's the first game. There's a kind of novel atmosphere that exists in a first game, in many different franchises. I don't even think it's nostalgia, I think it's a mostly unintentional thing done by developers. In trying to "figure out" a new universe and premise they project a kind of mystery onto everything. I don't know if I'm making any sense here or if I'm just babbling.

In any case, the series does stay ridiculous, and sometimes even ups the ante, but I hope that you can try to put that aside and enjoy the games anyways.

You're a rare person. It's hard to say how you'd view the other games in the series based on what you've said. If you ask me, no game has topped the original, but I don't have a negative view of most of the other games.

Apollo Justice is polarizing. I feel like it is generally liked by people who like the first Ace Attorney the best, but impressions on it are unpredictable. Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice, I think, you would probably hate. Really, the game I would recommend the most to you is Dai Gyakuten Saiban, but it is unfortunately only playable in Japanese.

On Investigations, the first one isn't very popular. The second one is rated highly mainly by people whose favorite trilogy game is Trials and Tribulations.

Should I try getting back into AAI?
I dropped the first one a case or two in, after playing AJ I couldn't really stomach another ace attorney game. But that was years ago.

Case 4-1 is cool, and I'm a 4-4 apologist, but it's not much better than JFA unless you're heavy into fujoshi shipping.

>skipping games in a story heavy series

The thing about AA1 is it had a an equal amount of pathos and seriousness/maturity that balanced out the goofy parts (like interrogating a parrot).

But AA2 and AA3 go overboard with the goofiness and silliness to the point that it's hard to get invested in the cases, because it just feels like a doofy cartoon show.

Turnabout "kitaki" and turnabout serenade are top tier crap, but what i liked was mostly the atmosphere they were trying to create and 4-1 was really good for it as was 4-4

It really is annoying when you're investigating and every time you click on something, Maya just has to say something about EVERYTHING. I understand she's supposed to add comedy to the situation, but she's not funny, and it just serves to make investigating a scene take twice as long as it should. A shit character, really.

I think that happens a lot with first entries in a series, they take themselves a lot more seriously and are generally more grounded, with the wacky elements being a bit more subdued. Then in an attempt to one-up their own work, they start ramping up the wacky elements more and more.

If you absolutely despise the wacky elements in Ace Attorney then you might just be better off seeking out other Japanese "adventure"/part-VN games.

4th and 5th case are great, although people often say the latter drags on for too long in the end.
Personally I liked the final confrontation because it really felt like a final boss.

it's all in the music
youtube.com/watch?v=edD34WEwmIA
this track is so weirdly melancholic I love it. like you're just plodding along in the rain interviewing and searching for evidence

fuck off

I played through AA1 and loved it. JfA was impossible for me to get into, and I played up untill Turnabout Big Top. I recently picked up Trials and Tribulations, and I am about to finish 3-3. I especially like 3-2 and its characters, but 3-3 has Viktor Kudo who isn't funny at all, and the same can be said for Jean Armstrong.

>Tfw finished Trials and Tribulations for the first time just the other day

That feeling of realising who the killer actually was in the final case is to die for.

AA1 is kind of classic in all respects, but if you'd go and replay it you'll notice that a lot of the problems you have with later games are very much present in AA1, especially the earlier cases. Maybe the novelty just dropped off?

AA2 has a decent second and a great last case, but it's generally agreed it's a weak entry. AA3 is usually deemed to be really good across the board, though.

>Apollo Justice is pretty good.
Ok this post is defining proof that nu-Sup Forums is real and has a terminal case of shit taste.

talk for yourself

why the fuck was 1-5 so goddamn long
I get that they wanted to show off what they could do with the DS but it just KEPT fucking going

I agree. That case gets a lot of shit, but it certainly felt rewarding to me.
Also, you want to play AAI1 to understand some of the details in AAI2, which is probably the best game of the franchise.

It was the selling point for the DS port of the first game in Japan. It had to pass as a game purchase's worth of content.

mm, never considered that
yeah, that makes sense

AAI2 is the best game in the series so yes

l bet you also liked Athena and Blackquill too you tasteless sack of shit

I think Shu just got too cocksure of himself with AA2 and AA3. He obviously really enjoys writing goofy characters and creating reams of inane dialogue, as those are the things he focused most strongly on with AA2 and AA3. To the detriment of the quality of the gameplay, to the detriment of the atmosphere, and to the detriment of any semblance of the plots being believable whatsoever. It probably helps to be very young when you play these games, as most surely were.

However, Ghost Trick was fucking awesome, so sometimes Shu gets his head on straight.

T&T > AAI2 > SoJ > AA1 > DD > AJ > AA2 > AAI > Professor Layton vs Wright

>tfw the credits start rolling and you realize the ride is over
youtube.com/watch?v=8bzmOd8KP7c

...

Why you so mad brah

Weebquill is the best thing in the newer games.

>AA1 is the best!
>the game that starts at the 4th case
Nah you just have extreme nostalgia goggles, frind.

1-2 is one of the best in the series

>le Mia wins the case for you

?
not OP but what do you even mean
every case is important in AA1, even the first case which introduces Butz, who is not only a semi-important backstory character but becomes a very important witness later on
you could argue 1-3 is pointless, but it does some worldbuilding at very least

props if people even get all the references at this point

fucking hell
meant for

Not him, but if you think that shitty excuse for a finale of a case makes it "one of the best in the series", you're just wrong.
The initial twist and emotional pull the case has are pretty good, but other than that, and introducing some characters, it has not much going for it.

Shu Takumi has never been about the murder plots themselves, he's always been a character guy. Yamazaki has generally better plots from purely a writing perspective.

That said, AA2 isn't him feeling "cocksure" at all. The game had to be finished in under half a year or something, the deadlines were crazy.

What makes the games "start" for you?

1-3 is really far from pointless, it has Edgeworth's major character shift

It's hard to call any case in any game pointless, though, there's always SOMETHING

ah yeah, I forgot about that
Wright would have lost the case if he didn't step in too
same thing happened in 1-5 iirc

Yeah, but 1-5 is already post 1-4-Edgeworth, so he's effectively a good guy. 1-3 is where he actually sees the light, and 1-4 could be considered the fallout from that.

I'll give you AA2 but AA3 > AA1 every day.
Had the best tutorial case in the Trilogy, better cases overall, and a great ending.

yeah, I totally agree

I think that's the actual difference between AA1 and the rest of the series. Every case in AA1 feels like it advances the characters somehow, whereas in the rest of the series the characters have one or two moments across the entire game.

Why is every single case about murder?

Why can't any case be about something besides MURDER?

Fuck it gets repetitive.

>rating by game, not by case

i shiggy diggy

though considering how cases benefit from each other within a single game this is kind of silly too

1-5 was pretty weird because he seemed to have already developed into his 2-4 self. It looks together quite well with the ending though.

Eh, AA1 just has the benefit of EVERYONE being new. Every other game also advances characters (including main characters) plenty, but they're just more secondary, like new prosecutors and assistants and such.

Which I guess is a good argument for AA4 having been an actual reboot rather than a Phoenix game in some ways.

Turnabout Reclaimed wasnt murder.

because it would be boring as fuck
Who the fuck wants to solve a case about a theft when you know the stakes are really low?

The thing about murder is the punishment that the killer will receive. It's the highest crime. You think Atmey gave a fuck about going to jail for stealing an urn? No, he was trying to cover the murder because the punishment would have been 1000 times worse.

You've clearly never played AAI2.

I don't know what you mean! In Trials and Tribulations, we had that case about grand larceny.

Which turned out to be about murder.

I should have said trilogy instead of series, yeah. I'm working my way through AAI2 and it is absolutely the closest so far to recapturing AA1.

I like him more for how no nonsense he is in trials. I loved when he just fucking walked out when athena started doing her bullshit. He's easily my favorite prosecutor, followed by Barnham.

There's technically some cases that aren't, but there's always someone who dies, yeah. Except the first case of Layton. 3-2 doesn't start that way, though, and there's a few cases (5-DLC, 6-3) that don't end that way.

You so fucking mad HAHAHA

woah, what happened?

I disagree. With an actually talented writer, you could make cases about a great many things besides murder, which could still be full of intrigue and drama.

Unfortunately Shu Takumi wasn't of that level of talent. So murder. Murder. MURDER

the best part about Sup Forums X is that I can laugh at faggots like you long after your post gets deleted

When has there being a murder been an actual detriment to the case?

>oh no! WHO STOLE THE PAINTINGS?!
>Ace Attorney: divorce trial
>I'll defend my client, AND PROVE THAT HE DIDN'T GO OVER THE SPEED LIMIT!

No, you're just a retard. Mystery without murder is garbage.

It just gets old bruh.

you get old

Found the 12 year old.

3-2 was still good even before it turned into a murder plot

Excuse me could you please take a look at this?

Does it? More often than not the murder itself becomes very secondary to all other goings-on, there's been a whole bunch of crimes combined with a murder in there somewhere, so it's not like they haven't explored that.

the civil trial in 6-5 wasn't good, and got worse when it became a murder, and even worse when it became LOL MAYA IS KIDNAPPED XD

1-4, 3-1 and 3-5 are great and the rest is almost completely disposable. You can have some fun with some cases if you like the subejct matter or some of the characters, but the stories and court scenes simply aren't that good.

Nope. Can't say I know anything about that.

>implying freeing a woman from a horrible marriage or saving a man from the death sentence that is alimony wouldn't be 10/10

What is that glossy ass fake looking piece of shit? Here, look at mine.

A speed limit trial could be fun if it was quirky enough.
>"I'll have you know my client remained UNDER 40 and I can prove it by what was playing on the radio at the time!"
>"But the officer caught him listening to a speed metal station!"
>"Objection! At the time of this photograph, the station was playing its smooth jazz interlude!"

I'm sorry, I've never seen that before.

>You can have some fun with some cases if you like the subejct matter or some of the characters

what the fuck are you even playing the games for

No game in particular was extremely bad, but some individual cases dragged on.

...

>the civil trial in 6-5 wasn't good

get outta here

Worst part of the AA4 and beyond games. With so few conversations written for presenting inconsequential evidence and seeing everyone's reactions, the game lost so much charm.

>proceeds to become a hobo pianist

Good writing and good gameplay. Kinda being entertained by some of the animations or a joke or two here and there is different from being truly engaged in the story and puzzle-solving.

>muh retard witness and disabled loli

>give it three years, then we'll see what you have become

DEEPEST LORE

They were great though, no greentext is gonna change that

It's hard to call any case pointless filler really. We get new characters in every game (new prosecutors mainly) so the middle cases are pretty important to flesh out their personalities. Putting aside the plot relevance some middle cases like 2-2 have:
>JFA's serve to introduce and humble Franziska with 2 consecutive defeats leading to her change in approach in the final case and later games
>T&T's establish Godot's character as somebody who's got a bone to pick with Nick and we only find out why in the final case
And so on. Admittedly the cases could have been better but they're there for a reason

1-5 was being written while AA4 was being made. It's not in the original 2001 game, it was made for the DS remake. Maybe you you knew that, but that's the point: it didn't take all that much forethought to add this to 1-5.

But the puzzles never really dip in quality (nor are they particularly better in those cases), and there's plenty of good stuff between those cases story-wise. Yeah, they're the strongest, but that doesn't mean the rest is shit.

Not being able to present profiles is a huge loss too.

The rest isn't shit (most of it isn't), but it's nothing special. Unlike the cases I've mentioned, the rest seemed completely forgettable to me. I wouldn't be interested in the series for Steel Samurai, Tres Bien or Circus cases, I'm only playing for the emotionally charged stuff.