Cataclysm did not ruin WOW

Cataclysm did not ruin WOW

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No, it was already ruined

That started with late BC/Early Wotlk

Yeah it was shit from the start.
Playing wc3 coop campaign these days, even simple mods are ten times better than wow and its even crappier clones.

No shit. It's players did.

CRZ and dungeon/raid finder ruined the game.

> This different genre is so much better and comparable to this other genre

Wew, lad. Quality postwork, my man.

This.

The point is that warcraft 4 would have been better but they never made it cuz wowmoney
Honestly you mmorpg shitters amaze me, how high of a tolerance for boring shit can you even have?

I'm curious how people who never saw old Azeroth react to it.
Any private server fags in here?

Correct, it was the fucking wrath babies that ruined it. Cata started as a return to form but wrath babies couldn't fucking handle the "difficulty" so it returned to mind numbing spoon feeding.

You enjoyed the end of talent trees? The simplification of skills? The removal of ammo? The LFM group finder removing the need to actively seek out others for dungeons? Flying added to Azeroth removing the PVP opportunities?

>any private server fags here?

which server do you play?

I'm sure they'd bitch about how confusing and hard it is due to them not telling you where to go when you finish quests in a zone.

That's an incredibly shitty point. And WoW did so well not because of the game, but because of the community that thrived within it.

By all means, enjoy your W3, there's nothing wrong with it. But being bitter over one game allegedly killing the chances of another installment (of which there was no guarantee you'd like, and could be shitposting about how WC4 ruined he franchise) is fucking stupid, and it makes you fucking stupid.

But they did, though.

Generally there was always a couple quests that would send you to another zone that would roughly be in the same range as the level you'd find yourself after almost clearing quests in your current zone. Did you even play vanilla or are you just a faggot?

This.

The patch right BEFORE Cata was the real clincher though.

Ur right, wow was always crap

People would force their fun since they paid so much to play and felt obligated to

>allegedly
it's true though
>And WoW did so well not because of the game, but because of the community that thrived within it.
Basically admitting that the game is a dumpster fire, as I said

You're avoiding the part where you're a butthurt little bitch who just wants something to complain about. It has literally nothing to do with either game.

Objectively better then WOTLK

Alliance >>> Horde

That's just you though, wowshitter

My brother in arms.

>cata's pre patch
>not cata

>Russell Bower leaves after his position was made redundant

This is a big loss considering all the iconic music he wrote, and yet it was intentional? WTF is Blizzard doing?

Can we now all agree that WotLK ruined WoW?

>First product of Actishit and Blizzard merging
>Rushed it out to compete with Warhammer Online
>So much cut content
>One i repeat, ONE good raid in a whole expansion, rest of them were rehash/underwhelming
>ToC is the one of the worst raids in the game
>Started AoE-faceroll dungeon meme
>LFD, no need to say more

Haha no

You must be fucking joking nigger, I legit never remember a single quest taking me into unguro, eastern plaguelands, silithus, burning steppes, . Shit you don't even get a quest to go into gadgetzan unless you go basically right to it in thousand needles. Shit I don't even think they had a quest for you to go into felwood either.

Most of vanilla I remember is you fucking explored or you heard someone talking about it. That or you thotbot'd/alakazham'd it.

I'm not really complaining about anything, just pointing out how retarded your complaints are because it makes me feel better about myself

The pre-patch was where most of the major class changes happened rather then Cata proper though which "Streamlined" a fuckton.

Maybe in a contest of who can take the biggest dildos.

>shit all over the original game world, dumbed down leveling, making all the mobs easy as fuck turning questing into a linear grind full of pop culture references


>somehow didnt ruin anything

>You enjoyed the end of talent trees?
Cataclysm was still bearable in that regard, mop removed them for good
>The simplification of skills?
Bloat was getting real already, besides it was nothing too bad yet.
>The removal of ammo?
Legacy mechanic that blizzard really didn't know what to do with and choose the least painful and quick way to resolve it.
>The LFM group finder removing the need to actively seek out others for dungeons?
It was implemented at least in wotlk, if not earlier even, cata brought lfr, which was one of the biggest sins of expansion.
>Flying added to Azeroth removing the PVP opportunities?
Open world pvp died in vanilla, clinging to it and trying to ressurect it artificially in every expansion since was one of the worst decisions blizzard made.

"full of pop culture references"
You never played vanilla then, shit was everywhere then too.

Just had to remind you that you are all shit for eating up the boredom simulator that is wow, and that we could have gotten something better had you not been such tasteless tards

>Open world pvp died in vanilla

MOTHER FUCKING THIS, THIS SO FUCKING MUCH. Jesus christ, these fucking dumb shit players never get it and bitch about flying every expansion talking about how fucking flying kills wpvp.

/ragemodeengage
IF IT KILLS WPVP THEN WHY THE FUCK ISN'T WPVP FUCKING EVERYWHERE WHEN THE FUCKING NEW EXPANSION LANDS FOR THE FIRST FUCKING YEAR? OH THAT'S RIGHT, IT'S FUCKING DEAD BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO FUCKING DO IT ANYMORE BECAUSE IF THEY WANT TO PVP THEY FUCKING GO INTO A BG WHERE THEY GET REWARDS, YOUR FUCKING GLORY DAYS ARE OVER FUCK FACES.

Are you fucking kidding?

Right off the bat, there's the quest that takes you around Goldshire, to Stormwind, and eventually to the edges of Redridge (something about horses, I don't remember exactly, but it had to do with defias), and completing it took you to Redridge. They had the same for Westfall, again, I don't remember the specifics but I think it had something to do with Oatmeal.

And then you literally complete every quest for whoever that quest lead you to and it would take you to Darkshire, Stranglethorn, etc. There was definitely a quest for Un'Goro, it came from Tanaris and you had to find some missing scientist or whatever and she(?) was literally right at the entrance. And from Un'Goro that same scientist gave you a quest that lead you to Silithis.

Jesus fucking Christ, you literally had to specifically break the chain of quests you got from the guy standing in front of the church to never get quests that lead you to another zone. They had the same shit for Horde, but I rolled Ally characters far more often than Horde so I'm not as familiar with those quests.

fuck off faggot, no it wasn't. we didn't start getting bullshit like harrison jones until wotlk and blizzard thought people suddenly wanted the whole game that way. the most we got was vague shit like marion and linken, which I didn't even notice because they were just random questgivers.

literally an entire zone is pop culture references in cata.

Sounds like you're just stuck in nostalgia more than WoWfags, which is a pretty monumental accomplishment when you think about it.

I fuck man ass

WoW was not ruined in a single stroke or one atrociously bad expansion pack. No, it took sustained effort, LFG, LFR, crossrealm, welfare gear, corridor raids and constant streamlining and casualization over half a decade before they could finally strangle the king.

Thinking about it just makes me depressed. They had 11 million paying customers, a huge fanbase, loads of cash to invest, a huge amount of goodwill(remember when Blizzard was a seal of quality) several incredibly popular settings and an impeccable history of titles. Basically every Blizzard game before WotLK was an instant classic. Diablo 2. Warcraft 3. Brood War etc are some of the most enduring and critically acclaimed titles in history.

And from this position of immense potential, from where they could have developed a stranglehold on gaming with excellent releases, without any financial or time pressure("When its ready") they managed to fuck up and be reduced to ailing F2P titles like HotS or Hearthstone and abortive shooters liem Overwatch. In their desperate chase of the casual dollar they actually managed to forever alienate casuals from the MMO genre, because instead of adding content casuals like and want like housing, hairs, cosmetics and the like they just tried to funnel everyone into raiding.

Sometimes I wonder what it is like to live in an alternate timeline where the merger never happened and what sort of games they would make.

>Open world pvp died in vanilla
This is really often overlooked. People already complained about the decline of world PvP in vanilla. Battlegrounds are the real culprit.

nobody wants to world pvp now because its a horribly imbalanced mess of one-shotting each other all day. its like playing pubg or some shit, whoever sees the other player first wins (excluding a large gap in ilvl or some shit)

Then bring us something better faggot.

There is a difference between having some fun jokes here and there and designing entire zones around Indiana Jones, Rambo and Caruso.

Fuck off faggot and eat a giant dick and kill yourself.

Here's a fucking massive list of vanilla wow references that took only a few fucking seconds. wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_pop_culture_references_in_Warcraft/WoW

and the pre-nerf cata heroics were still significantly easier than wotlk heroics were at launch.

but apparently even that was too hard.

>Alliance

Sorry, never played the cuck faction.

nostalgia? wc3 has a godlike editor and a community that makes more stuff to this day, wow is just boring, what is even the point of organizing so much for some shitty raid if the game itself is shit?

EQ2 was better mmo in old school mmo sense than vanilla wow was. Nobody played it because Warcraft brand name and obscene system requirements for everquest, especially when vanilla could run on calculators.

>EQ2

Yeah naw, I played that shit. Even fucking Vanguard was better.

That's fine, it doesn't matter. Quest progression was basically mirrored across factions and the formula for how and where to progress was the same. Playing a different faction doesn't make you any less of a faggot. I hit level cap on both sides before BC dropped, I just had a better guild on the Ally side so I played it more. But both sides essentially had the same quests.

Then why the fuck does it matter if WC4 was never made if you have so much glorious content for your game?

The root of that decay(and many other things) is the abolishment of tiers in WotLK In Vanilla and BC progression was a ladder, you had to climb the entire thing from start to finish. Since WotLK there are only two tiers ever, current and catchup. This is because shitters whined when they saw people decked out in tiers and wanted a sense of progression themselves, so blizzard has decided every single major patch should also be a full gear reset. This of course also ridiculously inflated item levels and caused all sorts of problems.

The absolute kicker is, this did nothing for casual retention. They do the "catchup" tier and then quit because they feel the game is finished and progression is too hard for them anyway.

>user is actually so retarded he believes this
WotLK heroics where piss easy from their very inception you dumb fuck, WotLK heroics started right off the bat with not needing to use CC compared to BC heroics where not having enough CC in your group meant some fights where near impossible.

Whatever you say cucko

The quest giver he's talking about in Un'Goro was neutral

Besides the obvious reason of the community being absolute garbage, another reason why world PvP worked in Classic is because the ranking system actually supported it. If a huge war broke out you WANTED to be a part of that shit, that was progression right there, so everyone scrambled to be in it.

Reminder that MoP was actually a great expansion that people meme'd about to death because of pandas and didn't get to experience the true peak of WoW.

Because a highly moddable rts with rpg mechanics + a simple to use powerful editor is something that should be brought into modern gaming, it has been too long. Obviously some things developed since the time the game came out

vanilla wow pvp ranks are one of the worst systems we've seen in any game period.

I want to play good vanilla again. Crestfall can't happen soon enough.

>MGT was released
>all those T6 geared cucks wiping because they fucked up the CC

good times


People were also more involved with the world and the setting. It felt more of a world you could lose yourself in. You wanted to fight those other guys just for the hell of it and to defend your land.

Now people dont give a shit about anything, everything is a lobby, crossrealm or both. Why would you care about someone who you will likely never see again?

>WotLK/Cata were so bad people pretend MoP was good
Mechanics were still gutted, dungeons still trivial, daily quest bullshit was once more extremely prevalent and shitposters claiming that MoP was good NEVER have a single fucking argument to support their claim.

WHY are you claiming that MoP was good you inbred fuckwit, nobody cares about you liking it unless you explain yourself.

> Oshit, I got called out on being an idiot
> I'll just call him a cuck, that'll show him

I think that was more a product of the class changes that happened. CC was definitely more present in BC, but tanks in general (notably DK and Pally) were just so good at AoE tanking by the time WotLK happened that there was more dancing around spells and rotations and less marking and CC management. CC management was more tedious than difficult, but I do think it was more fun than dancing.

Garrosh did nothing wrong

>MUH BC
kek, kill yourself nostalgiafag
>Complains about dailies in MoP when they were so much worse in BC
Ignorant child

Can somebody tell me what happened to random encounters?

Like I'm not trying to go down the old "muh nostalgia" speech, but like I've been on/off on wow since vanilla and I like to go back for a month or some weeks every once in a while, but man have the player attitudes changed.

I always loved the random encounters with other players: the stupid /general spam, the lame discussions and the short acquaintances made in /party chat, but now everybody is so fucking silent.

Yes I know that most people watch shows or whatever when running casual content but do nobody really want to bullshit around with strangers anymore? That used to be my favorite thing about dungeon leveling alts (even post LFG).

But now /general is quite or just filled with weeaboos doing their strange stuff. /party is silent in LFG. /raid is silent in LFR (no jokes? no spam?) /general is dead and /trade is actual fucking trade.

It breaks my heart when 30 people are standing around waiting for a WC boss to spawn and /s is blanc.

I really don't get it, that was always what made wow have a special place in my heart. The MMO part.

>Thinks I got called out.

you can say whatever the fuck you want cucko, you don't have any actual evidence, show me the fucking proof. I could say you get a quest from Naruto to kill Simba the moment you make a Gnome Samurai, it doesn't mean shit.

BC *was* the best expansion though. That's not saying much, but it still was "the best".

Nobody "ruined" ur wow. It's just became more and more casual with each patch. But still fun as hell to play. The only shitty chapter was WoD.

>They got away with a monthly fee
>There are people that played wow and later posted on Sup Forums complaining about muh scummy dlc practices

>BC *was* the best expansion though.
Pure nostalgiafag.
>Hasn't played WoW in a decade
>Thinks he can comment about it

You would straight up die to just regular damage if you tried to "aoe tank" in BC heroics

>CC management was more tedious than difficult
It leads to interesting scenarios, CC breaking and having to scramble to react, pulling a patrol mid fight and adjusting, fights where a challenge and getting killed was a legitimate threat where you had cause to utilize all tools at your disposal for the edge you needed to win

You'll never see cool shit like your healer mindcontrolling a mob healer to take it out of the fight while utilizing their spells to save mana, or a rogue taking aggro on a group of ranged enemies and kiting them away from the fight to buy time.

> Should be brought into modern gaming

It really shouldn't. WC3 is complex compared to modern games, and WC3's gameplay is incredibly simple compared to most other RTS of the time (and some after), but even something as moderately aged as AoE3 is simpler to navigate than WC3, despite it's predecessors.

Games have gotten simpler over time (see: casualized), and to survive in a modern climate, it would not even be close to what you'd want out of it. Something like WC3 is pretty much perfect where it's at. Especially with the state of RTS games lately.

yea WOLTK did

Go play a private server for a couple days and follow the chain from the first quest giver. I'm not going to WoW wiki spoon-feed you because I honestly don't give a shit about you.

>defending ammo

It was expensive to buy the best ammo from the AH and it took up an entire bag slot

Both WoD and Legion are fucking awful though. MoP is easily the most consistently decent out of all post cataclysm expansions

I love how it became just accepted by my server's community that the etiquette in TBC heroics was
>sap star, sheep moon, trap square. root triangle, fear / mind control diamond

You just need a good person to mark targets and you were usually good. Heroics in TBC, especially when still in mostly blues were fucking scary. I lost SO MANY shadow labs runs to the mind controller fucker. I still have
>TIME FOR FUN!
burned into my mind and it is probably the closest thing I have to a trigger.

>All that childish namecalling with no substance
Wew lad, you sure showed me.
>Dailies where much worse in BC
Dailies in BC where exclusively for shit like cosmetic/optional content though, doing dailies for required gear and such and forced padding of content in this manner wasn't a thing until WotLK.

BC had shit like grinding dungeons for rep, made for interesting events like guilds bringing shitters along for a tour of BT while they grinded up the rep they needed for shadow resist gear, and made for a more involved community.

> Interesting scenarios

I agree with that. I rolled Survival hunter during those days, and I was pretty proud I could hold 4 ice trapped enemies for most fights while still dishing out respectable DPS.

You're right. There was tedium, but it was definitely more fun.

>That spacing

Yeah, not even going to read your shit.

What? I thought it'd be easier to digest that way?

>Just fear the guy that gets mindcontrolled
>Healer gets mindcontrolled
>Fear runs him all the way out of the room
>Tank dies before he gets back
Good times. Also fuck me I still remember exactly those marks as well, it was common etiquette literally everywhere.

>HURRR NOSTALGIA

I can literally say that about anything you like as well cunt.

>Hasn't played wow in a decade.

I've been playing since the start off and on, fuck I'm currently playing it. BC is still so far the best.

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Proper use of paragraphs is now considered "reddit spacing" by some of the more retarded people here, best to just leave them to their autistic screeching.

I mean good lord I remember the days where we would laugh at faggots who just made one massive wall of text and went "nigga I ain't gonna read all that shit by (You)" but these days it's wall of text or you're "reddit spacing"

Guild chat is dead because Cata killed social guilds with Guild levels.
People don't dick around while levelling because it doesn't take an obscene amount of time anymore and all the worthwhile content is at the level cap.
People don't talk in lfd because they'll never meet their party members again and they want to be done with it as soon as possible, same with lfr.
People don't talk in general and trade because time spent chatting isn't time spent gearing up for endgame content.
Most people just think "I'll have time to enjoy the game after I'm done with all the grind" but the grind never ends.

>WC3's gameplay is incredibly simple compared to most other RTS of the time (and some after)
Literally what the fuck are you on about, it's the most micro heavy, apm demanding game in the history of rts, the type of shit you can pull if you can control every unit effectively is insane, and 99% of people aren't capable of it.
Modern means it gets upgraded, nowhere did I say it has to be casual, and if you think it has to be made so to fit into the modern climate, then you are delusional just like the marketers for most games

Spacing one sentence at a time isn't a fucking paragraph.

You must be a complete retard to think this qualifies as a paragraph.

Or even this sentence.

This is obnoxious and isn't worth reading.

If you've been reading these kill yourself.

You're a disappointment to your family.

>Proper use of paragraphs is now considered "reddit spacing"
""""""""proper"""""""" use

>Paragraphs are defined by length not by subject
Hows that American education working out for you buddy?

>Dailies in BC where exclusively for shit like cosmetic/optional content though, doing dailies for required gear and such and forced padding of content in this manner wasn't a thing until WotLK.
FUCKING
ALDOR
INSCRIPTIONS

>most micro apm demanding game in the history of rts

Starcraft says hello.

The faster they made leveling, the more of a meaningless and bothersome chore it became. Its pretty funny actually how it is by far the most fun to level is in vanilla. I really like the little milestones like doing your class quests and getting blue weapons.

They're both faggot. A paragraph however isn't a fucking stand alone sentence. That would be like saying that a bicycle is a truck just because it has fucking wheels.

>he doesn't know
play the newest installment, or look up some pro wc3 moments, I'm not here to educate ya

Tedious Horde v Alliance idiocy is what actually ruined wow.