Why are nips so bad at making crawlers

is it because good map design requires a soul?

>requires a soul
What did he mean by this?
Was it Kino?
Is this Ludo?

>Is this Ludo?
here is the ludo my friend

That pic is retarded.

If he was a real autist, he would have used numbers instead of arrows, which is far more efficient.

>game requires some thought and spatial awareness
>legal retard goes haywire and blames the entire country for his shortcomings
literally git gud

So you want extremely simple dungeons so you don't get lost. I've never seen a retard parade his condition so proudly as you.

>make a map bad on purpose
>lele its goood design because its annoying, its hardcore! really make me think!
baka nigga

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>so you don't get lost
>lost
>can see position on the map at all times in both games
what are you trying to say

This is not even complicated map design. Every single map here is fairly simple by itself.

Japanese people only make games that matter, not shitty irrelevant pieces of shit that no one cares about. Fuck off

this looks like something from wizardry 1-4

Guys wait.
This thread is all bait and no fish.

Complicated things confuse you because you're dumb.

>games that matter
>main series got sidelined for a spinoff series where you can date school children

But it's not complicated. It's trial and error. It's the very definition of artificial difficulty.

>It's trial and error.
Exploration is an inherent part of dungeon crawlers, don't be sad.

>exploration
>just put portals everywhere to make the area seem longer
so this is the pinnacle of nipponese game design

>main series got sidelined
What does that even mean? It's under active development.

>get btfo
>n-no, its bait, muh anime!

And exactly how is this bad design? You're angry because you can't figure it out, not because there's anything wrong with that map.

>You're angry because you can't figure it out
what is there to figure out? what part of that map requires critical thinking to solve? please explain.

Going through the portals and remembering where they go. It's not even that hard. Are you always upset when something confuses you?

That one is from Wizardry 4. I knew from the moment I looked at it, that was the map I stopped playing on. The entire game was designed by a madman who wanted every player that played to suffer.

>Going through the portals and remembering where they go
user, that is a 'puzzle' for an 8 year old, which is fitting because it's on a handheld for 8 year olds.

Look at , it's not even good for a bullshit difficulty map. There is not a single area of design it excels in. You've said it yourself.
>It's not even that hard

maraudon or sunken temple is worse
maraudon is less of a clusterfuck once you're actually in but holy shit is the entrance to the two halves cancer to navigate through, especially considering all the elites outside too

>user, that is a 'puzzle' for an 8 year old
Did it also frustrate you?
> it's not even good for a bullshit difficulty map.
It's not bullshit difficulty because you couldn't figure it out. You want plain, straightforward maps because anything requiring a bit of concentration seems to baffle you.
I guess it's easier to just blame the entire country it came from, like a child.

>because you couldn't figure it out
I did figure it out. It's bullshit difficulty because everything about its design is artificial. You're just throwing yourself into portals until you find the right ones. Its an extremely lazy way to make a map, its on par with something someone would throw together in a map editor.

its a dungeon that rewards players who can quickly put together a right ways map through teleporters by not keeping them there forever, thats why there are poison and sleep tiles. its also lenient enough to make it so that people can "luck" through it by choosing the right path by accident. whats so difficult about it?

same senpai, how the fuck was I suppose to figure this out? I just basically fucking mashed all the combinations til I got through.

>I guess it's easier to just blame the entire country it came from
but user, literally every nip crawler has shitty maps like this. This kind of design is just completely retarded. They totally missed the point.

>its a dungeon that rewards players who can quickly put together a right ways map through teleporters by not keeping them there forever
but user, nobody except for retarded weebs are going to forget which portal is the right one and whether or not you pick the right one on your first try is complete chance

>whats so difficult about it?
Nobody is saying it is actually difficult.

Super deep western dungeon designs

>a-at least its all connected and i won't get lost

user, that is not even the same sub genre

>why are nips so bad at making craw

lers

This

Eridanus is probably the best designed map in SJ. Grus and Hologorium are genuine examples of bad map design. They're not even complex or difficult, just insanely fucking tedious. Eridanus was fun and satisfying to explore. The entire teleporter maze can be solved by a scrap of paper with a few numbers on it.

>best Wizardry game is japanese

How can sapes deal with this?

Only fucking idiots had a problem with this map.

From doesn't count. They are special.

Yeah, that is the problem. Weeb crawlers just have shitty maps that act as a dressing for the combat, which is also bad.

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>shitty maps like this.
Again, you're immediately assuming they're shitty maps because you dislike the challenge, not because there's anything wrong with them. You literally came here to cry about those mean nip devs because they tried to make you use your brain, posting a ridiculously simple set of maps as a better alternative.

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I don't think you even know what bothers you about them anymore.

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Part of the point of dungeon crawlers is map exploration and this has to be challenging outside of combat. If you want a fucking straight line, go play a drag racing game.

>shitty, shitty, shitty
Why, what's wrong with them? You seem to think "shitty" is a good description of what is wrong with the map.

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Ah childhood...

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Why is it called the forest of doubt?

These look like EO4.

god tier map comin thru

>10 different exits lead to the same entry
What a meme

arcana is a bad game
this maps are extremely bloated and simple, there is nothing to weeb crawlers out side of combat. Western crawlers from the era when they peaked were full of secrets and puzzles and NPCs and shits. The jap stuff just has no creativity to it. It's all a callback to the wizardry 1-3 era when things were fairly new and no one had any idea how to take things to a higher level of detail.

>He can't handle Eridanus
Hope I'm jumping the gun with this assumption.
I'd argue that any good design is usually with DRPGs since they love wizardry so much. Or increasing casualisation with Japan. Shit usually is just simple half the time in third person exploration or action rpgs, becoming straight lines than anything with challenge or thought

Pure dungeon crawlers are for faggots anyway,give me a roguelike or any other genre that has dungeons but its not just about endless dungeon crawling

>there is nothing to weeb crawlers out side of combat

So you mean the fun part of the game? You posted maps from a JRPG and pretended that its a traditional dungeon crawler.

Where the hell is the hypercube dnd map, I know one of you has it.

>So you mean the fun part of the game?
The combat is an exponentially shittier version of what it copies.

Yeah it isn't hard, it is a waste of time. All you do is memorize which teleporter spits you out where. Then the only way to know where they go is to actually go through them then you are put somewhere that doesn't make you progress so you have to go back to another teleporter so you can hopefully stop wasting your time on walking back to find the correct teleporter. This isn't a devious trap, This isn't an interesting puzzle. This just makes me walk back to the same area more until I know where everything goes.

>Yeah it isn't hard, it is a waste of time.
Video games are a waste of time. There clearly was something that bothered you about that map, but you keep dancing around the subject. My guess is that you couldn't figure it out.

That was the first time I posted in this thread.

Sup Forums X marks new IPs. Also, pretending to be different people is not an argument.

>There clearly was something that bothered you about that map
I think you desperately want this to be true because the alternative is that you are retarded.

>grus is bad meme
Was it really?

Hypercube?

>tfw weebs are so mindfucked they are screeching at people accusing them of being me

Then you better update your 4chanX.

/tg/ autism

>tfw weebs are so mindfucked
Are you here to discuss games or to cry for attention?
No, the alternative is that you have no argument. You can't even elaborate on why this is bad level design.

I want to see this map too, is DND even fun?

Nigga (proper) roguelikes *are* endless dungeon crawling.
Blobbers usually have quests, puzzles, NPCs.

>You can't even elaborate on why this is bad level design.
Nah, it has already been explained.

>it's a shitty map
That's not "explaining",

>exploration
Hardly. All you do is go into near identical areas with almost no distinguishing features if any.
that's a bad map, but it isn't because the game designer is a jap. It's because he is retarded.

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>It's bad because it's retarded.
That's great, user.

It has been explained you fucking dumb ass. It is a waste of time. It isn't challenging or fun to connect the dots of this teleporter puts me at this location and that being the gimmick of that entire level. All it does it make me go traverse through the same areas over and over again until I get the right teleporter after charting the other ones. Then in this thread people are harping that dungeons crawlers are great because they usually facilitate map exploration.

I am exploring jack shit with teleporter mazes with constantly going back to areas I have been before since I don't know where this teleporter will take me to until I actually go into it.

But so does the game in the OP, secret areas for NPCs for side missions, the image is literally just one area of a dungeon.

That's a boss floor and FOE puzzle first and foremost, user.

>But so does the game in the OP
That's because SMT is the only good japanese grid crawler, but I wanted to be a nice guy and at least post a redeemable game instead of just straight up ripping on something completely awful like EO. However, it does fall short of western crawlers and it is not the same. Also, that particular map is really fucking dumb.

>Use a fucking guide: The map
I hate glast heim and clock tower so much

>reading comprehension

What's wrong with EO? Haven't played it myself.

>It is a waste of time.
It's a video game.
>It isn't challenging or fun
It's just a map, it's not supposed to be challenging by itself, the random encounters provide the challenge. None of the map designs you posted before are challenging at all.
I'd argue that it is fun, but that's just you opinion.
>All it does it make me go traverse through the same areas over and over
Sure, if you can't even keep up with what's happening, or which portal leads where. You're pretty much proving that the only thing bothering you here is your inability to go through it.
So, I guess it took you this long to just admit that you didn't like it because it kicked your dumb ass.

Not that user, but I've always thought the crawling in EO was fine. The combat is supposed to be the hard part of the game, not the mapping, and even then the 6th stratum usually fulfills both requirements.
>mfw remembering mapping EO 1 Claret Hollows

Looks like an incredibly toned down version of Stratum 6 in any of the Etrian games.

Hello.

HA! Found it, fuck you all I win

The only downside of this game is fucking Mem Aleph's difficulty spike, I had to grind for that cunt.

It's about retarded as it gets. Lackluster maps, dumb combat with stupid shit like a super move bar, barebones fetch quests. It's just Mindless Grinding: The Game.

wait is this for real? The map is so convoluted its connections can only be explained as teleports because it wouldn't make any physical sense otherwise? and im assuming this is a 2d game?

wtf even is that?

You could always cheese it and use the codes for broken demons if you want.

>It's just Mindless Grinding: The Game.
>he needs to grind to beat EO
Spotted the shitter.

>dumb combat with stupid shit like a super move bar

God forbid that the combat is not just click on sword repeat like every western dungeon crawler ever made right?

The whole game is a grind.

>using codes
Would be nice if I had the internet back then. Still, I'm glad that SJ and EO1 beat the casual out of my ~12 year old ass back then.