Number one rule of level design is to not design levels that are trial and error based

>Number one rule of level design is to not design levels that are trial and error based
t. Everyone in every mario maker thread.

So if that makes bad level design how can you argue Sonic games are good?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=jR9K2tPq0SU
my.mixtape.moe/tickqu.webm
my.mixtape.moe/eizkli.webm
youtube.com/watch?v=4fWoZI8Gnnw
youtube.com/watch?v=om-pmO4JvdM
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Press down when you hit max running speed or when you see a slope. It isn't that hard to understand.

>Sonic games are good
Has anyone ever claimed this though?

>t. Everyone in every mario maker thread.
99% of mario maker levels are meme trash

amazing thread friend

you won't die very often in sonic because the rings mechanic is extremely forgiving
besides, trial and error isn't always bad. it depends on how you do it.
a game like Mega Man involves a lot of trial and error but you can generally beat most levels/bosses without having knowledge of them or their weakness if you're good enough, and it feels satisfying when you get something right

the wrong way to do trial and error would be to put three paths, two of which trap and kill you if you take them, and give no indication of which path is correct until you've already picked one

>So if that makes bad level design how can you argue Sonic games are good?

Because Sonic games aren't trial and error based. What a dumb question.

>the wrong way to do trial and error would be to put three paths, two of which trap and kill you if you take them, and give no indication of which path is correct until you've already picked one

But there are enemies in Sonic Mania that there are no way to avoid crashing into unless you already knew they were there

this is only true for sonic 1 btw.
Also maybe sonic 2 final boss but you have so many lives at this point you must have brain damage if you dont learn the patterns.

Most classic Sonic DOESN'T require trial-and-error, and even less so with the new widescreen functionality of all the Taxman games. You have ample time to react, you can normally blitz through any enemies just by holding the roll, and the level design normally choreographs when there's a platforming/technical section coming up that you're supposed to slow down for.

The criticism is valid, but not for Genesis Sonic. This criticism only holds up well against Dimps Sonic, because they had a smaller screen space and abhorrent use of spikes, crushers and death pits (all of which were used a lot more sparingly in the Genesis titles).

Now if you want to get GOOD at Sonic, then yes, there's trial and error involved, as there is with all time attacking. But to just complete the game and have some fun? It's a bullshit non-excuse peddled by the likes of eceleb garbage like Previously Recorded

There really isn't. Enemies are either put after an obstacle so there's absolutely no way you can't notice them or during your jump arcs.

turn in a ball when you go fast faggot

>he dies during his first runs in sonic games
kys

Yeah, that section in Flying Battery with the electric balls is bullshit

Because they are not trial and error based. What gave you that idea? You can get hit as long as you want as long as you preserve a ring. It's one of the easiest games ever made.
Also anything can be considered trial and error.

surprisingly smart frogposter

Press down while fast

Not him and fuck the mentality, but there actually is one particular enemy that you can't avoid in Hydrocity, forgot the act but there's a pair of spiked bubblefish right above a slope you'll go through highspeed straight into them

Sonic was never good.

THIS nigga gets it

there's nothing wrong with trial and error

I like the trial-and-error meme, anti-Sonic shitters really came up with a good one after people caught on to the fact that the last Sonic shitpost meme, "Hold Right To Win", was a load of bullshit.

The brilliance of the Sonic trial-and-error fallacy is that to argue against it, you have to have a solid enough understanding of Sonic's mechanics and level design to argue why it ISN'T a trial-and-error game. However by doing so, you give the shitposters ammo to say that you know the game too well (have memorized the level layouts) and are therefore too much of biased party for your two cents to matter in the argument.

It's a brilliant catch 22 for shitposting, good job Arin

I feel like I know which part you're talking about but I distinctly remember them being slightly to the side as you go up. Even assuming that, one or two enemy badly placed don't really make the whole game trial & error, especially since Mania in general is very generous in its tells.

I seen too many people never make use of rolling and it drives me insane.

Arin likes Sonic Mania

So who honestly wanted Oil Ocean back? Who asked for it?

He's probably being held at gunpoint by Sega's yakuza

Doesn't make the damage he's caused go away

He admited in one recent Unleashed episode that he exagerates his anti-Sonic shenanigans for comedic effect
He's got a shit sense of humor

I was content with either it or mystic cave. I love the percussion and bass in oil ocean so I was totally down for it just for the music alone.

Me

Why did people hate Oil Ocean again? It's not frustrating like Metropolis/Wing Fortress can be (for scrubs at least) and it's not boring as sin like Aquatic Ruin or Hill Top. As Sonic 2 choices go, it's pretty inoffensive, but since the Mania leak happened I see loads of people coming out of the woodwork to say they always hated it. Weird.

RosyBoy

People are too harsh on Oil Ocean. Blazing through the whole level with the flame shield is hilarious as fuck.
It also makes actually fun use of Sandopolis' gimmicks in Act 2 and is pretty fucking neat visually.

youtube.com/watch?v=jR9K2tPq0SU

Arin sounds fake as fuck when he played it
>haha never even saw this game haha
>oh lol ZA WARUDO nice jojo reference lol get it ex dee?
>proceeds to predict everything
>oh man this is like, so nostalgic
>WOAH never saw this special stage before haha

>this is only true for sonic 1 btw.
No.

PRESS GARDEN IS TOO GOOD

...

Arin's hateboner magically disappearing away with Mania is the greatest marketing trick Aaron ever did

>Constantly bash Sonic games, is one of the lead figures in the "sonic was never good" memes
>is somehow invited to every event, even featured in Mania's special thanks
>overplays the hate for comedic effect and constantly triggers controversy and discussion around it, giving the series more attention
>when Mania is released, he instantly turns back and says he had fun playing it, instantly retweeted by Sonic's official account, effectively cementing in Arin's 4m suscribers the idea that Mania is THAT great

It sounds paranoid as fuck but I really can't believe it's just a coincidence especially since both Aaron and Arin are VERY good friends.

>A brilliant multi-layered plan to restore Sonic's reputation

I like it

How's the Emerald hunting boys? First playthrough here, I got 5 and I'm in Chemical Plant Act 1. There are three rings in this stage and four in the whole of GHZ that I know of. I failed out of two rings and I'm going for the last Chemical Plant Act 1 ring before Act 2.

>Watching any sort of 2D Sonic footage on youtube
>No one ever rolls into a ball
>Whenever anyone runs into a wall or obstacle it's usually a good 1-1.5 seconds of them pushing into it before they react and jump

This is why it's hard to take criticism seriously. Are people really this bad? I've got shit reaction time and even I can flow through Sonic stages without much trouble

There's really not much point unless you really really want to. It's much easier to just grind green hill act 1 until you get all the emeralds and then refight the final boss

Was Arin secretly /ourguy/ all along?

Do you like the Dropdash?
Don't get all the emeralds first playthrough, you'll just take away one of your best moves and will trivialize the rest of the game

Because they aren't Trial and Error. That donates that you couldn't possibly know what is coming ahead. But the game does have clues in how it's levels are built. Aside from that, the only reason to go super fast is for bragging rights. Most of the time you shouldn't be going super fast and the game is a standard platformer most of the time. The game does encourage you to replay the levels to get better, but if you are dying multiple times on a level, you are doing something wrong.

Yes, there are places where you will probably get hit, by spike, or enemy placement. But because of the way the Ring system works, this isn't a detriment and the game always has rings after these encounters to make sure you can take another hit after that.

That was one of the easiest parts of the game. The Oil Ocean boss and the entirety of Titanic Monarch act 2 were way worse.

The game keeps crashing every time i finish the blue sphere stage. I never keep the medal

>Oil Ocean boss
I don't get how people are having trouble here. Are you all not destroying the tentacles or something?

That's shitty tho

I love the drop dash, it's one of the best things ever added to Sonic and is such a natural progression from spindash that I can't believe it wasn't added sooner. But I see what you're saying, maybe I should slow down.

HOW DO I GET TO THE LEVEL SELECT ON PS4
SOMEONE FUCKING TELL ME ALREADY

>Switch version

Square + X + Options on the No Save Icon

>So if that makes bad level design how can you argue Sonic games are good?
Because Sonic games aren't like that
Smart frogposter

Who wants a Sonic CD steam code?

EMT90-9AY4W-59XMN

Gotta go fast.

to anyone with the CE... is the cart supposed to slide out just by gravity?

pic related. I thought you were supposed to pull it out. mine just slides out without me doing anything.

Thanks, user.

Well just to make clear, Super Sonic can still do the drop dash, but if you're trying to not transform into him then you're in for rough times, especially since this game ain't shy about rings

>game comes with a tiny gold cock ring

someone wanted webms of the GHZ giant rings in the previous thread so here you go
my.mixtape.moe/tickqu.webm (Knuckles Act 1)
my.mixtape.moe/eizkli.webm (Sonic Act 2)

Got Good Ending on my first playthrough of the Switch ver. No crashes

Just checked mine for you user, it is a little loose and slides out part way when I hold it upright. Maybe it's meant to

Not sure why people are bitching about Flying Battery being hard, the original was much harder.

Mine only slides out to the point where it looks like a regular Genesis cart without me doing anything.

How's those time attacks going?
youtube.com/watch?v=4fWoZI8Gnnw
Sloppy as fuck but for a quickly made route i suppose it's good enough

oh a little loose? mine just slides out all the way. in the unboxing vid Aaron had to use a bit of force

POST THOSE TIMES BOYZ

I'm almost done marathoning the original 3 sonic games. I'm like 2/3rds through 3, and it's the best one by a mile. 1 was pretty shitty to be honest, save for a few zones. 2 was better, but the slow zones still bogged it down, but 3 has been a blast. I'm happy I went through with playing the first two. Can't wait to play Mania tommorow, Press Garden is my fucking jam.

What about CD?

yeah, it's a bit slidey. Also HOLY FUCK WHY IS SONIC SO GOD DAMN BIG?! I don't have anywhere to put this fat blue fucker!

For comparison
youtube.com/watch?v=om-pmO4JvdM

If you're not quick enough, you can easily get caught in the middle of the Octopus head. Plus it pulls out the platforms so its hard to escape when you're in the oil. The fire shield makes the boss a joke.

Not even an issue since Sonic games never put enemies on slopes or straightaways where you're expected to speed up

Wait I think I completely misinformed you, mine doesn't slide out unless I shake or jimmy it. Maybe you just got a badly molded cart or something user, sorry.

Currently playing the original games too. I wanted to play the right way without level select but fuck it I really don't want to start over.

Oh, I almost forgot about that one, I'm not sure if I'll have enough time before Mania, but I'll try if I can.

Don't start. If he's skipping CD he's probably one of the rabid CD haters that used to plague these threads, just leave him be.

I hope when you say 3 you mean 3 & knuckles or 3 Complete

Don't feel bad, I had to savescum once or twice too. I'm not proud of it, but I can't go through the shit zones twice.

The CD stages in Mania are really good, playing through the original first will only make you appreciate them a lot more

I don't have anything against the game, I just don't know if I'll have the time.

I do.

good

>Leaker dude game overs 12 times on it
>Don't get flattened by green lids
>Get to that boss in act 2
>Think it's going to push my shit in
>Do the obvious jump underneath the platform shtick, while taking out the arms one by one after the laser goes away
>Easy as fuck

Man, maybe the people hating on it are just bad at video games.

I really wish I knew a way out of this meme desu. It's complete bullshit and nobody popular who gives a shit enough has the retarded meme tier fanbase to wash away Arin's shit smearing completely.

Feels fucked.

>Mirage Saloon Act 1
>Lava Reef's boss
>Not getting cucked out of the last level
>His glide actually feels good this time
If Sonic didn't have the Dropdash i wouldn't waste a second into nominating Knuckles as having the best campaign

It's literally true. People who think this game is too hard are just fucking bad at video games.

I do that and it just enters a no save game
how the fuck do you do it without activating it

Is there footage of that guy on youtube? I refuse to believe it's possible to have a hard time against that miniboss, even at least 2 anons here said they got game overs against him

>he didnt push it back in enough for it to click back in place

It was the act 2 boss he couldn't wrap his mind around. And he got hit so often that he couldn't even keep a fire shield to trivialize it.

He game overed on the green lids in act 1 several times too.

I tried that.

>Knuckles' Mirage Saloon Act 1 is one of the best in the game
>Hidden Palace boss is awesome
>They're basically the only Knuckles' exclusive parts in all of Mania
Man, I don't care about ratio of new stages, but I really wish Knuckles had more of his own routes and bosses. It was one of the best things about S3K - if anything they should've expanded it so Tails had slight remixes of bosses and different act routes too. A few alternate paths exclusive to a character is nice but S3K did so much more of it.

Mania 2 can have whatever ratio of zones it likes but I'd greatly appreciate more uniqueness between each characters' campaigns.

It should gently lock in to place and require a pull to get it out. There are little notches on the side that might be worn or broken. I put mine in my real sega for a little mind fuck when playing on the PS4 at 4K just don't push it in all the way...

>check Sonic Mania levels list
>Flying Battery and Lava Reef

Insta-purchase

Sonic 2 has a ten life cap. It's entirely feasible you might go through all ten learning the two bosses in the Death Egg Zone.

Captcha:
Walmart Zone

So how different are Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles's campaigns? I can't play until tomorrow, so I've been asking questions all day.

unironically fpbp

My autism just got activated... Why the fuck are the CE Sonics light blue instead of the proper darker blue? Someone should have consulted Christine...

user, i'm sorry to say this but those stages are really fucking good

Knuckles has paths in each level exclusive to him, an entirely different act around the latter half of the game specifically designed for him, and an exclusive boss battle. No idea for Tails.