Is it wrong that I sort of agree with Andrew Ryan's ideaology

Is it wrong that I sort of agree with Andrew Ryan's ideaology

no

Any ideology seems appealing if you can pick and choose what you like from it.

Not wrong at all.

Did you uh, miss the whole point of why Rapture went to shit?

Any ideology taken to it's extreme is shit.

>objectivism

Literally babies first philosophy

Rapture wouldn't have fallen with ryan wasn't a Autist hiding instead of just hiring a hitman to kill Fontaine

there's no baby first philosophy

Ryan was just another 2edgy4me lolbertarian.

No, it's a legitimate ideology, one could argue a pretty popular one actually, only taken to its extreme with a hypocritical leader in a fantasy setting.

Wasn't that literally the entire point of it?

Its supposed to be a fantastic ideology that leads to a great, prosperous society. You're supposed to agree with it.

The trouble comes when the ideology is forced to meet reality and you must figure out a way to enforce that ideology and it turns out that however great the ends are they don't justify the heinous means necessary to reach it.

Nigga who the fuck is Aman

Yes there is.

Depends on what you understand his ideology to be.

Its Ayn Rand fanwank. In reality accomplishments from individuals are negligible. Most of it comes from well organizated institutions

>implying baby's first philosophy isn't nihilism

>inb4 communists start crawling out of the floorboards and dropping their garbage opinions

post proof

Of course it's wrong,because Andrew was just a puppet, you never agreed with him,only the mastermind. He was possessed by the golf club all along.

hating on objectivism is baby's first hating on a philosophical school of thought

Every ideology stems from extremely reasonable desires.

If anything, the point is that it'll always be necessary to organize in order to get anything done, so a leader will establish a management system around himself, which will take on a greater role as bigger problems present themselves. Objectivism is just the belief that what I've described is a "company" rather than a "government."

>no gods no masters
>get outsmarted and lose power
>no u cant have, I'll destroy it then >:(

Ryan was such a little bitch

I don't know if it's intentional or not, but the game implies that if he'd stuck by his beliefs and held fast to them all the way down the line, even if he was no longer in charge of the city itself, his ideology would have gotten vindicated in time.

It could be an accident (Bioshock Infinite is accidentally one of the most racist games ever made, so Irrational were a bunch of hacks) but it's fun to think about.

>you are either a libertard or a commie

Yes because the free market can't self-regulate and there a lot of corporations doing bad shit now because they are too powerful and unfettered.

Corporations enjoy special privileges that other entities do not have, which are granted to them by the state. It's not unreasonable, especially with consideration of both regulatory capture and public choice theory, that the rise of the large powerful corporation is not a result of natural market forces but of interventionism that has outlived its intended purposes.

...

Any ideology sounds appealing when you choose the parts you like.

Like what villain doesn't have a motive that doesn't sound rational if you can pick parts.

>Hating objectivism
kek

Nihilism is literally babbys first philosophy. It's literally what every angsty 12yo subscribes to. It's faggots first pseudo-intellectual thought 101.

Garbage like Marxism comes afterwards. Maybe that's Faggot 102 or something.

No.

...

Objectivism is pretty gay. However people typically move on to other things so it's whatever.

How? You saw what ended up happening-- how can you agree with a philosophy that failed so epicly?

Commies are shit.

It's fiction. I can make a story in which my pet philosophy creates a spacefaring civilization and the primary antagonists (who believe what I don't like) are trying to destroy it and bring it down into the mud.
Commies are shit. That doesn't mean that lolbergs are significantly better.

>This
I can't believe how many retards out there are espousing the Communist rhetoric in the West. If people want fucking Communism so hard they're welcome to go to Venezuela, see how good Communism did them. The greatest punishment for motherfuckers who want Communism is to make them suffer through Communism.

You just need to pick up one fucking book on any country that picked up Communism and it will change your mind immediately about the ideology, which only tells me that the people pushing it haven't read any history books at all.

Oh yeah there's so many books shitting on capitalism. Well, I'd be glad to read a book on a country where Communism succeeded.

Because it was sabotaged by bad actors?

>oh shit communism is fucking retarded
>better go all out for capitalism
How's that kosher sandwich taste, goy?

Except they detailed exactly why extreme objectivism failed Rapture: it screwed the working class which are an obligate feature or any society, it empowered con men like Fontaine who were able to blossom like a tumor in a society without regulations, and all it's advances in science and art that it was hyped up for immediately went into cut-throat, murderous industry with nothing protecting the inhabitants of the city.

This gave me a hearty chuckle

what's the non pleb philosophy then

pretty sure it was because fontaine out-ryan'd ryan

and because the city had next to no social services, because of course fucking not with with all the unique snowflakes living there, it had no net of sanity to fall back on after shit hit the fan

Who's Aman?

Because of magical shit that fucked up the citizens? Pretty sure as long as no substances comes around that cane give people super powers we have nothing to worry about in real life.

On paper no, but (within the setting) in practice and costs yes.

The point of Bioshock is Rapture still failed for the very underlying reasons that led to his "utopia" criticizing what was wrong in capitalism, marxism, fascism and religion: humanity itself is flawed and bound by natural organic desires, thus extremism and unrest are always waiting down the road.

Infinite spoke the same thing but instead about all those non-Rapture ideaologies, going from a racist far-right theocracy to a hellish war caused by rampaging far-left anarchists. Whatever goals Columbia's people were attempting to accomplish only came out as disgusting one-sided murder.

>Any ideology taken to it's extreme is shit.
what about the ideology that any ideology taken to it's extreme is shit

Well in that case the "extreme" would be dismissing any ideology on sight and never thinking about anything. Basically potheads.

>Basically potheads.
>dismissing dude weed lmao on sight

nice ideology

>Basically potheads
Wrong

How was Frank Fontaine a Con Man? He gave people jobs, shit on 'the boss man' all you want but people needed to buy food, shit they needed to MAKE food too.

if i identify with this man. does this mean i actually don't identify with this man as this man wouldn't identify with another man?

Even discounting all the doomsday stuff that happened in rapture, there was plenty of small every-day bullshit that came up that showed why Ryan was full of shit. No regulations meant you'd buy wine and find out it was mostly diluted with water, or cigarettes made with garbage. And there was no reprucssions for doing shit like that: you basically had to rip people off to survive in that kind of economy.

MONARCHISM

How do I get into philosophy?

>Playing through remastered version now
>Seeing it in a whole different light now that I've grown out of my retarded commie stage.

It was a solid idea for the most part, but there should've been some legislation in place to stop people like Fontaine buying up swathes of industry and building a literal empire. Learn a lesson or two from the banana republics, y'know.

Also they should've banned adam as soon as they found out it fucked people up into splicers. Or at least put more time into figuring it out. Columbia managed to get plasmids right 40 years ago without the nasty side effects, so it's not impossible (if you count that piece of shit as canon)

When did I ever technically dismiss them? I just merely commented that they're what best fits the example.

Monarchism is good but it's also basically ded which is why all the neoreactionaries are blackpilled as fuck
Fascism/corporatism is its successor

Why do I even bother with you friends?
So you just want to be some random pawns?

The man was a drug dealer-- he knew his shit was addictive and would have horrible consequences on the people who bought it, but he sold it anyway. Then he pulled a bait and switch as Atlas just so he could grab Rapture for himself-- he was a crook. End of story.

Go to Sup Forums and argue.

It will take several years but if you're intelligent you will learn enough about yourself that you don't need someone else to tell you who you are and what you think.

If you're retarded you just end up an ideologue.

>Gamers, who deal with some of the shittiest examples of unregulated greed and capitalism, identify with Andrew Ryan
The nuclear bomb was the only good guy in Bioshock.

>Go to Sup Forums and argue
>Don't need someone else to tell you who you are and what to think
You're so full of shit, user. Take your recruiting bullshit somewhere else.

>consistency is bad
Only if there is something fundamentally wrong with your philosophy

Take a first-year college philosophy course. It will be the best ~$300-500 you've ever spent. They're so low priority in scheduling you can often take one during the evening.

You'll have to put up with some hard-line Atheist or Theist who absolutely refuses to discuss the counter-arguements against their beliefs but often someone in the room tells them to fucking grow up and learn some shit.

Just live
After a while you will see that you don't actually give a shit about philo and idelologies and do what you enjoy in life instead of bothering with pointless shits

I never played burial at sea. I what way did it fuck up the canon? because I know it did.

Someone is always going to wield power. I could call the libertarian or the Marxist a pawn as well.
Stirner isn't wrong despite being overmemed.

>dude Sup Forums is totally an indoctrination center and not a constant shitfling between basically every ideology lmao
Sure thing user. He should also visit /his/ and /lit/, though. Debate isn't everything.

Utilitarianism desu

Welp, at least I tried. I won't post again because I can already tell you are a waste of my time, but consider this: five minutes spent arguing with someone who disagrees with you is worth more in terms of personal growth than a lifetime spent reading academic journals for emotional pats on the ass. Pic related - the process of uncovering your core beliefs is a long and challenging one, and only by being challenged to form positions on a range of issues simultaneously while also being analytical of yourself will you ever be able to develop the kind of personal knowledge of your belief system required to truly know yourself.

If your self-concept is so fucking fragile that you are incapable of having a robust discussion without being afraid that you will be corrupted by some malicious outside entity then yeah, it probably is best that you stay away from Sup Forums, because you're clearly the kind of retarded ideologue brainlet that makes up 95% of the board.

Stoicism is the only true philosophy.

Herp, wrong pic.

I guess I am the waste of time today.

Sour grapes is not a philosophy.

>utilitarianism

Don't pull that bullshit. I'm not a hipster for saying Sup Forums is a hell hole for anyone looking for actual civil discussions on philospophy. It's called 'politically incorrect', bias is built into that board.

Explain what's wrong with utilitarianism

>I'm not a hipster for saying Sup Forums is a hell hole for anyone looking for actual civil discussions on philospophy
"Civil discussion" is a euphemism for censored discussion.

Just because you can't hold your own when you don't have anyone else holding your opponent back doesn't mean the rest of the world is that pissweak.

Well, it is, but fuck them too.

Poor guy. You really seem defensive that people think Sup Forums is a shit heap. I'm sorry your so fragile.

It's literally babby's first ideology.

Sup Forums is a shit heap. His point isn't that Sup Forums is good, his point is that Sup Forums builds character. Manual labour and frontline customer service are both shit jobs that nobody wants to do but they teach you valuable lessons nonetheless.

yeah explain

>not being a pragmatist

Smh

>cummies are the only intrinsic good :^)
Consequentialism is the only good utilitarianism and even then it's only useful when coupled with other moral stances

Andrew Ryan had the right idea.

But too many fucking assholes fucked it up for the rest.

>Sup Forums builds character

Sup Forums is a fucking bubble echo chamber that makes you a racist piece of shit in subtle slow way.

It's 'censored' only for edgy teenagers who don't see the value in mutual respect in disagreement. People who see a little bit of tact as some moral abomination can't survive in society.

>utilitarianism
>babies first

It's not simplistic enough. Nihilism, objectivism, and other easy to digest schools of thought are far more apt to be described as babies first.

Sup Forums does not build character any more than beating your child gives them character. It just makes them into bitter little missed opportunities.

Oh, so it comes out. It's not that Sup Forums is uncivil or full of ideologues out to push their viewpoint, it's just that there are bad goyim there.

>baby first ideology
Can't take seriously anyone who writes this, at this point it's like saying "I don't like it".
Only in this thread you already have calling something they don't agree with "babby's first ideology"
Bring real arguments or choke on a cock

>Sour grapes

It's not giving up on something because it's out of your reach, it's not worrying about things out of your control. You can still have ambition.

>t. wasn't beaten enough as a child

>gibsmedat

t. Ane Rand

>bubble echo chamber
Stop using words that you don't understand.

Sup Forums is the furthest thing from an echo chamber. Controversial opinions are highlighted on Sup Forums, not hidden. The more controversial a post is the more replies it receives, and the more replies it has both the more it has been read and the more likely it is that someone browsing will stop and read it.

>don't see the value in mutual respect in disagreement
Two mutually exclusive positions cannot both be true you retard. "mutual respect in disagreement" is a euphemism for being too fucking retarded to actually prove yourself right. Just as was said, you avoid Sup Forums - and debate - because you simply can't hack it.

>Sup Forums does not build character
There is a minimum intelligence requirement for Sup Forums to be of use to you. Any dumber and you're right, it's more a harm than a benefit. I guess what I'm saying is that you're too dumb to be helped.

>human mind isn't infinitely malleable
wew starting so wrong doesn't give the enthusiasm to read the rest

>"mutual respect in disagreement" is a euphemism for being too fucking retarded to actually prove yourself right
I think what he's saying is that even if you consider your opponent to be completely fucking wrong, you can still respect them as an opponent.
Which is true for some ideologies. Others are just too dumb to be worth it.

>not simplistic enough
"Whatever is the greatest good for the most people," isn't simple enough? I'd argue utilitarianism is baby's first precisely because it's so fucking simplified that it's functionally a useless ideology. Try to apply utilitarianism to solve a real world problem - any problem - and watch it fucking collapse because the one sentence of instruction it offers to the world simply isn't enough to be of any help to any decision maker ever.

>real arguments
>against a meme ideology

>hey sociopaths do as you please
>why are you destroying my utopia :sademoji:

He was fucking retarded, that's why he turned his Ayn Rand utopia into a police state and lost it to Fontaine. That's why objectivism only works when every sociopolitical system in the world magically converts to the rules of objectivism, same with capitalism and capitalism.

>no argument again
choke on a cock then

For Rapture: Elizabeth (and Columbia's suspension-science) chasing after a specific Little Sister she never knew is why Rapture failed, although at the hands of the same people previously responsible. Also Bioshock 2's events are apparently retconned out entirely.

For Columbia: Somehow 1 exact Comstock and Elizabeth were allowed to survive the base game's ending (grandfather-paradox problems aside, if we're going by context here), and basically forced some convoluted exceptions to the game's own rules regarding space-time traveling.

Oh also Elizabeth dies along with IG's future.