Knights of the Old Republic 1 or 2

Which one do you prefer and why?

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I kind of got sick of 2 after I spent three fucking hours on that stupid space station at the start.

peragus and nar shadaa are the low points of the game

Kotor 2 is the one that actually works on modern PCs.

Agreed. Dxun was also kinda boring up until the Tomb of Freedon Nadd

KOTOR II
>better characters
>better story
>better planets
>isn't completely derivative
>actually can make a character that isn't a Mary Sue Jedi or Edge Lord Sith
>introduces new concepts and themes to the Star Wars mythos
>improved combat
Bioware-lets can't even compete

2. I felt uneasy knowing I was revan in the first game

I personally had no significant problems with Kotor 1 except for the resolution, which didn't bother me too much

>>introduces new concepts and themes to the Star Wars mythos

wtf, KotoR1 pretty much wrote the book on Sith lore

granted Kotor 2 does expand on a lot of shit tho

KotOR2 had better gameplay and story
KotOR1 had better planets and wasn't butchered as fuck

2 because Kreia is one of the most interesting characters in the entire Star Wars universe.

Revan is also near the top of that list though.

Absolutely on point as far as I'm concerned. I was mainly impressed from a philosophical and moral standpoint by Kotor 2, as opposed to Kotor 1 which was black and white like the first movie

It doesn't work with the cinematics for me.

I pushed myself to playing until Nar Shadaa, then quit again. Damn fucking long corridors.

I guess it depends on the OS and the hardware. Mine is still older, who knows what it is

2 because higher level cap and more feats+powers. It also doesn't have any unwinnable fights like the turrets guarding the undercity on Taris.

>Revan is also near the top of that list though.
Almost everything interesting about Revan comes from II, which is incredible considering it's a game he doesn't even appear in.

Yes, they are my favourites for not falling into the classic categories of Jedi and Sith. But Kreia is superior with her philosophy which is central to the second game

That's really the genius of Revan, he's a force of nature not a man.

>I was mainly impressed from a philosophical and moral standpoint by Kotor 2
what the fuck, are you 10?
moral relativism is a concept as old as humanity

Yeah, and even the MMO builds on his lore quite a bit. Interesting how the game where he was the protagonist has the least to say about him (altough it does make some sense considering that it's an RPG)

Kreia is literally réddit tier cringy nihilism. Shes not interesting and her character is nothing new except for children who have never read any literature before.

Nah they just continued what was set up in Tales of the Jedi

True, but I played it for the first time when I was 10 or so. And it was one of the first time, if not the first I was faced with such a story

That's what she's suppose to be you moron.

The first one. Because After I get to Telos my game fucking glitches and I can't actually leave the Telos station. And this keeps happening so I can't ever complete the game.

it's new for Star Wars, that's for sure.

KotOR 2 is my absolute favorite game of all time. The writing is superb.

...

And that's why shes not a good character. I would go so far as to say she is the single most over rated character shilled on Sup Forums.

KotOR 2 wasn't about moral relativism. What are you talking about?

Kotor 2 had better characters and story but shit everything else
Kotor 1 was the most rounded

Same with me and Dantooine.

Knights of the Old Glitch 2: The Bug Lords

How is Kreia a nihilist

You guys having trouble with 1 might check PCGamingWiki and WSG. The fixes there made it fully playable again for me on Win 7. The last time I played there was no UI scaling, though, so you'll have to deal with a small window in the center of the screen for menus. Could be there's a patch somewhere for it.

TOR ruined everything that KotOR2 had built on Revan. It revealed that he was mind controlled into becoming a Sith Lord, completely throwing Kreia's theory that he played the villain to strengthen the Republic out the window

>TFW never experienced a single bug on KOTOR II

>Kotor 2 had better characters and story
You need to be 18 years old to post on this website. Kotor 2 is literally
>le edgy wounds in the force
>hur durr im kreia im gonna get revenge on the jedi for casting me out
>oh noes my sith who i trained to be evil turned on me how could this have happened
>everything sux no one listens to me life is just suffering
>no you shouldnt ever help anyone that would go against how edgy i am
>im gonna train you to defeat my pupils that i trained but was too retarded to forsee them turning on me
>oh noes i told you my plan and you killed me how could this have happened.

1 for actually working and for that plot twist, which might have been the best one of my childhood.

2 for literally everything else.

>being this much of a mentally challenged biodrone
>>>/somethingawful/

She's meant to be the yin of Star Wars and she can't be a nihilist because the force exists.

1, because it's not an edgy "deconstruction" written by a fag who obviously hates Star Wars.

KotOR 2 is identical gameplay, but with more character options.

Yeah it's not a deconstruction, it's a rip off of the OT. No wonder you normies love it.

What's OT?

>if you dont like kotor 2 it means you are a biodrone
I dont like kotor 1 either for the simple fact the "twist" was obvious as soon as you started getting visions.

Keep shilling for your numale cuck company though. Atleast bioware used to be somewhat decent once upon a time, obsidian has never been and never will be a good company.

Kreia preached letting people be strong without relying on others or the Force
She saw the manipulative nature of the Force and sought to end its destructive influence on the galaxy's affairs.

Kotor 2 has more genuine star wars moments than the original.

Original trilogy

2, I love Dxun, and there are more variety of builds. I don't think dual blasters was even feasible in the first game.

You are reading way too much into lazy writing in an unfinished buggy game

Personally, I'd advise you to ignore (or at least be highly sceptical of) everything past KotOR II, since it consists entirely of Drew Karpyshyn flipping the table and having an autistic fit over the fact that Chris Avellone wrote Karpyshyn's characters better than he ever could.

I agree entirely, it's the only game I can think of where the writing is perfect.
It's enhanced by some incredible voice acting, but the elegance of the dialogue is astounding. All I need to do is read a quote, and I immediately recall how it was said.
>You see, the war, the true war, has never been one waged by droids, or warships, or soldiers. They are but crude matter, obstacles against which we test ourselves. The true war is waged in the hearts of all living things, against our own natures, light or dark.
>There is much weight, much craving attached to such a tiny thing of light. For the male, it seems to have inordinate importance... but we shall leave such male preoccupations for philosophers and cultural historians.
>It is good that you have never wondered what lay beneath her robes, if her alabaster skin was as white and unblemished as her face. Or if perhaps she bore the scars of slavery... and if that would stir you more. Perhaps her deferent tone would change once you held her by the throat...

Both are trash, Bioware is trash, Star Wars is trash and Obsidian is trash.

If 'reading too much into' means 'listening to the exact words she says ingame'

That's her explicitly stated goal. Nothing to read into. Maybe it's just that you're retarded?

It is if you're a mentally challenged shitposter like the user you're responding too

That's just false and I liked kotor 2.
youtube.com/watch?v=5_2x6gfjjAM
1:25

>kreia
>nihilist

Are you a complete brainlet?

You realize the only reason she was so against people using the force is because she was bitter and jaded after having hers drained from her right? Like jesus christ Sup Forums really is bottom of the barrel when it comes to intelligence. Her "philosophy" simply comes out of anger jealousy spite and bitterness after being kicked out of the jedi and then being too retarded to forsee her evil appretencies would eventually drain her powers.

>IF I CANT USE THE FORCE NO ONE CAN IM GONNA KILL EVERYONE WITH THE FORCE IM GONNA KILL THE FORCE

I've played a bit of 1 but quit after the second world. Convince me to play it again

>Both are trash
>lists three things

>one of her main goals is to defeat a guy literally named nihilus

Even when the symbolism is completely on the nose, some people manage to be miss it

>literally says "apathy is death"
>nihilist
HMMMMMMMMMMMM

Both games

apathy is death

Her main goal is revenge against nihilus and sion out of spite because they drained her powers. Holy shit you guys are mentallthy challenged. She didnt care about anything other than revenge and the entire game is just the exile helping her get her revenge.

She was so butthurt over losing her force powers she LITERALLY wants to to kill the force. Think about that for a second.

One
Two is Star Wars with edgy teen goggles: shitty EVERYTHING BROWN AND GRITTY CoD lenses, pretentious 2deep4u nonsensical plot, angsty villains, "muh pain"

>Convince me to play it again
You quit right when it was about to actually get good, by giving you a choice of locations to explore, better party selection, and enough Jedi levels to make playing the PC fun. Bastila is a pretty good waifu. The whole endgame is great.

declinism is a form of nihilism that advocates for pursuing the actions that will fasten the collapse of civilization, it's a fairly important branch of both european far right and kabbalistic judaism

this. 2 is one of the most pretentious games ever created

She was still right.
Every time the Force 'seeks balance', the galaxy erupts into a massive war and people die in droves. Its influence even brings the existence of free will into question.

>implying freeing the galaxy from the force is a bad thing

t. CDPRcuck

No longer will your whispers crawl within my skull. No longer do I suffer beneath teachings that weaken us.
[user's will has been eroded]

never said it is

She's not a nihilist, that would imply she thought the universe didn't matter, or thought it was purposeless, which she doesn't. She seems very aware of an intent in the force and a higher meaning, and actively hates the Force for it.

I'd argue that her main philosophical point in the series is probably closer to objectivism, since she's all about questioning institutions and self-reliance. Having the Force in the series kind of spins a lot of the "reality separate from consciousness" stuff on it's head, but hey, that's the kind of shit that makes Star Wars fun.

No she wasn't right you inbred. the force is literally the reason for life even existing in the star wars universe and if you killed the force you killed almost every single thing in the galaxy.

War is just an eventuality in any kind of civilization and if your goal is to just simply wipe out civilization to prevent war you are too unintelligent to think of an actual concrete solution.

Only the yuuzhan vong and droids would have survived if she had killed the force

nah I hate The Witcher 2 and 3 as well

Then what does "declinism" have to do with anything and what does it have to do with kreia?

Discuss

Kotor 2 objectively has more exciting set pieces and adventure than the original. You have the raid/escape in the Jekk Jekk Tar, followed by infiltrating Goto's yacht; the cantina fight between Atton and the twilek bounty hunters; the split party sequence on Dxun/Onderon as you take down the sith installation and fight through the siege on the castle. There's also several lengthy dialogue setpieces between Atris, Sion, and Kreia all reminiscent of the throne room scene from Jedi. And also the cave vision on Korriban recalling Luke's on Dagobah

The only time the original game has anything approaching this is the escape from Malak's star destroyer. Otherwise the game is bog standard bioware RPG where you travel from map to map in search of the mysterious macguffin. There's zero sense of energy or dynamism to anything you're doing.

2.
Companions are better
It expanded on concepts introduced in 1
It treated characters from 1 with respect
It made skills far more useful
It made non minmax builds viable

The only problems are that heavy armour is completely worthless and you will be hideously overpowered unless you choose your feats and attributes at random.

If that's a legitimate attempt at a tier ranking, it's one of the worst I've ever seen.

I want to fuck Visas' throat desu

>and actively hates the Force for it.
No she only started hating the force after she had her force powers drained from her. She is just an edge lord bent on taking revenge against her pupils who stripped her of power, everything she tells you in the game is simply manipulation to get you to do so.

>She was so butthurt over losing her force powers she LITERALLY wants to to kill the force. Think about that for a second.
She lied
Her philosophy was born out of being screwed over by both sides of the Force, she sought to free Force users from the will of the Force while still being able to use it (as one would a weapon or poison, in her words)
After seeing you, who turned his back on the force but still managed to control it, she decided to teach you and show you off to the Jedi so they can see what Jedi can be
When the Council tried to kill you, she set herself up as the big bad to see if you could interpret her teachings correctly and start a new order
She wasn't killing the Force, she was trying to kill its ability to exert its will over everything

>Her main goal is revenge against nihilus and sion out of spite because they drained her powers.

No it fucking isn't. Why do you think the pivotal scene for her is at the Jedi Enclave? Why doesn't she kill Sion but instead pits him against the exile when she could have defeated him easily by that point?

Yes revenge is part of her motivations, a big part, but stating it has her main and only goal is completely retarded.

Both games are easy as fuck. The difference is that in 1, you flurry everything to death. In 2 you lightning everything to death. I prefer the latter because it's faster and so the combat feels less tedious.

Kotor 2 is not "star wars" it's a deconstruction of it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on your view.

>Why doesn't she kill Sion but instead pits him against the exile when she could have defeated him easily by that point?
Because she wanted the exile to be able to defeat nihilus and sion would never have done it for her? Jesus christ im going back to work, Sup Forums really has hit absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to even basic intelligence.

The only one who could defeat Nihilus was the exile and kreia knew this, that is the only reason she manipulated her and trained her. for revenge. Its why once her revenge is assured she doesn't care anymore and lets you kill her.

Is there any other Star Wars media that's even remotely critical of the series as a whole?

>better planets
Most of them were terrible, especially nar shaddaa. There was almost no gameplay variation at all either, at least we had the academy infiltration and manaan detective shit going on in the first game. I like both games but I can never understand how people praise kotor 2 so much, let alone how they were even able to play the game with all those fucking bugs. I remember restarting the game twice because of gamebreaking bugs and I only recently finished the game with the restoration patch. Even then I had a gamebreaking bug near the end that took me hours to get around.

I like the characters and story of 1 more but 2 is better with the random loot

>Because she wanted the exile to be able to defeat nihilus and sion would never have done it for her?
>By the time you fight Sion you've already killed Nihilus
10/10 logic there user

Your reply to what i said doesn't even make any fucking sense, and you question other peoples intelligence.

Also "declinism" implies the you believe society is in decline, not that you what it to or advocate for it.

Switch Brianna with Visas
Switch Hanharr with Bao-Dur
Move Atton into Pure Pazzack tier
Put Canderous in Elder God, because his stories were GOAT
Move Kreia up to High

And? The irony is that it still manages to better capture the feel and sense of adventure while taking a critical look at a lot of Star Wars' sacred values.

KotOR 1 limits itself to the mostly binary good/evil, black/white of the original trilogy, but is otherwise entirely lifeless and boring.

Floor is yours, fampai, how would you change it?