Is Todd Howard right about JRPGs?
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>"I want to roam and do what I want. Traditionally they don't let you do that"
>"doesn't suspend my disbelief"
>"JRPGs are waaay to fantastical"
>"its crazy on another level. it looks cool, but that's just nuts"
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wtf i hate todd now
>hasn't made a single good game
>right about anything
morrowind and daggerfall were good
He's right
Don't Fallout fans give Todd shit for exactly the bottom 3 points about FO3 and 4?, How stuff is very style over substance and how they don't give a shit if stuff makes sense or is lore consistent?
>JRPGs are waaay to fantastical
And TES isn't?
wrong
He's right. The JRPG genre was, by and large, a mistake.
Most JRPGs are just shitty VNs with awful combat, turn-based or otherwise, as a filler. There's little to no choice or actual "role-playing" at all.
Persona 5 is a great example of this and how JRPGs are awful.
>I want to roam and do what I want
Me too. That's why i avoid playing Fallout 4
TES isnt
go back
...
...
He's right but that doesn't make them bad
I actually don't think there was ever a single Bethesda game that was genuinely bad.
I mean, elder scrolls has one of the worst combat systems in all of AAA RPGs so I wouldn’t cast any stones.
Like Dragon Age 2 is a piece of shit but even it’s combat is better than skyrim’s
The elder scrolls series has amazing lore
tell me another game where you can go just go to a god damn library and choose a book with like 30 pages from like 50 books and just read it?
Top kek.
the toddnator is right on this one but let's not go full retarded
Todd is right. Breath of the Wild is a garbage JRPG.
Morrowind was pretty shit when it came out. Most people just saw the pretty graphics and automatically gave it a good review. The writting wasn't anything special, it was buggy, it's still unbalanced. Walk down the wrong path? lol imp kills you in 2 hits.
you are right but for the wrong reasons.
JRPG and the RPG name for the genre as misnomer used to explain to best explain to dumb dumbs as to what the game i think dragon quest was about. I want to say it was dragon quest though i am not 100 percent sure other than it was one of the first nes rpg game that was given the RPG genre designation in japan. One of the people who worked on it in a interview said that that game was not a real RPG just that given that it had similarity to D&D and its game mechanics , in that you kill random encounters for xp and gold, level up, and there are different types of combat classes that do different things like magic and heal, that thy marketed the thing as that.
So it kinda was a mistake if only one made as to people and kids who had no clue as to what the game was would have some sort of idea before buying it and from them nes day and on given to the big success of the game. Anything like it was called and RPG even it was not really an rpg game really to begin with. Then as more time went on technology improved and actual RPGs were made possible kinda originating in west cause of the bigger pc gamer demographic that made such things possible. Then the rest is history.
Long story short the almighty power of a nip marketing department designated non rpg game and rpg that blew up became super popular and cause of its popularity that is what is called and rpg even though it technically was not really an rpg.
Fucking this. There's a reason why Sup Forums and Sup Forums as a whole shits all over upon it at every chance they get. It's one of our most hated genres buy weebcucks don't seem to get the memo.
They're not real RPGs. This is a fact that Sup Forums has upheld since inception and will continue to hold in order to trigger weebshills. And we wouldn't have it any other way.
>no open world meme
>no realism meme
JRPGs are automatically the best genre.
Morrowind was good because Todd didn't have enough influence back then to fuck it up
based Todd telling it like it is
>hates JRPGs
Explains why each game he's involved in has progressively fewer RPG elements and mechanics, he can't appreciate games that aren't lukewarm McDonald's bullshit. Like Bethsoft games.
wtf you could have summarized your entire novel into 1 sentence. go to sleep.
Some of those TES spin-off's post Daggerfall and arguably Arena were pretty bad.
>weebcucks
>weebshills
This wacky fanfic post is pretty funny considering you've been around for 2 or 3 years tops.
Lolno weebs.
This. /ourguy/ till the fucking end.
Friendly reminder that even the worst WRPG is still infinitely superior to the least dogshitty J""""""""""""RPG"""""""""""".
>"I want to roam and do what I want. Traditionally they don't let you do that"
Fair
>"doesn't suspend my disbelief"
Neither does Fallout or Elder Scrolls aweful storytelling and tiny "cities".
>"JRPGs are waaay to fantastical"
I wouldn't exactly call shouting someone off a cliff and throwing nukes everywhere realistic.
>"its crazy on another level. it looks cool, but that's just nuts"
Nothing wrong with that.
So one good argument out of four, not looking good for you Todd.
Based Toddy
I don't disagree with him so not really.
Dragon Age Origins is overrated as fuck, I admit that in a heartbeat. But shit tier, really?
look mom I'm posting on four chan. Loom at my epic trolling. Can i have a grilled cheese sandwich.
>"I want to roam and do what I want [in shitty, empty open worlds]"
finished that quote for ya, Todd.
gook music is better though, you can't deny that
the jap rpg producers always make fantastic music. each damn area has their own music. morrowind has what 5 tracks that get repeated over and over again until you have to vomit?
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acquire fucking taste pleb
Trying way too hard to fit in there champ
You know what JRPGs often have that Bethshit games don't? Actually good gamplay. Combat, level design, requirements for planning and higher thought, literally not present in Bethesda meme games.
>but muh roleplaying, I have to self-insert autistically or I can't have fun
>b-but muh thousands of haphazardly written LOAR books I wikidived to read
>but muh brain clot that flares up whenever I see an ""anime girl""
>but muh wizardry did it first (conveniently ignoring that Wizardry itself was a clusterfuck of bad design and that most WRPGs are just tabletop games for people with no friends)
every persona game is like that, is hysterical that you have to single out 5
>Implying JRPG worlds aren't substantially fucking worse
Skyrim wasn't empty. In fact you had large bandit hideouts within a 2 min walk of big cities, and with another 2 minutes of walking you'd find yourself a vampire lair or draugr ruin. That's the problem really, Skyrim had a few top tier dungeons but outside of those it was just too many that were too uninteresting. Quality > quantity.
Say it ain't so Todd
Not that Todd has made any good RPG in the last 15 years and there are more plot holes than story in his games but I agree with his opinion on this. Some people like JRPGs and that's cool but they always felt too over the top for me to take seriously.
>dwemer ruins
>draugr ruins
>bandit hideouts
>same handful of enemy types everywhere, every time
TESV is the guidebook for phoned in horseshit
>Implying exploiting pre-defined vulnerabilities is "good gameplay"
>Implying Turn-based combat is good
I single out persona 5 because it's brand-new, massively acclaimed, and had a fucking decade in development. 3 and 4 were excusable because they were micro-budget games made for the PS2 towards the end of its life cycle. Persona 5 has no fucking excuse for being as shit as it is. Fucking simpleton.
Skyrim's problem was its quests and story. It had about the worst guild questlines in all of TES. And the main plot was confused.
Most JRPG's aren't the same Tolkien esque padded out open world with shitty character writing to accommodate the MC being a blank slate that can be completely bipolar due to a fickle player.
you're including DLC. Most of the shit in the base game was the same copy pasted dungeon
>Acting like what you're saying refutes his point when it only makes his point better
Woah, not one, but THREE games with the same fucking problems. You sure showed him.
Fucking Persona is the Call of Duty of JRPGs.
I rarely have fun in a JRPG dungeon. Most of them are pure filler of random encounters and some loot placed there and there. Western devs nowadays at least try to put some side quests and NPCs to break monotony.
>Tolkien esque
>Implying TES, FAllout, and The Witcher 3 are "tolkienesque"
>with shitty character writing to accommodate the MC being a blank slate that can be completely bipolar due to a fickle player
I'd rather have the option of being a bipolar tabula rasa than being forced to play as spiky-haired teen who's just as poorly written by some hack whose sole influence is shtty shonen manga and western media
It's perfectly understandable, but it's also the reasons why I prefer JRPGs over WRPGs.
Reminder that normalfags actually believe this.
>Wasteland 1 under god tier
Lets not get ahead of ourselves, that game was revolutionary for its time but these days it is ass.
In the same way asteroids was revolutionary but I dont see anyone calling it god tier
>caring about "realism" in video games
TES isn't all that tolkien-esque, nor Fallout of course. The Witcher setting owes a debt to him though, particular halflings and aspects of the elves.
Todd is usually full of shit, but he is right on this regard. Jrpg are garbage for weebs
what was the point of this post?
>Todd is right
People don't actually understand how sophisticated this man is. It's Pete Hines and Zenimax who fucks up TES games.
Any half-decent turn based combat system is going to be better than whatever flaky action game or shooter WRPGs these days end up built around. Fuck, Japan even puts modern western action RPGs like the witcher, dragon age, and recent TES/Fallout to shame with shit like Dark Souls and Monster Hunter, in terms of gameplay. Fucking Nier Automata is a better action RPG than most western devs can manage. The real "meat" of contemporary high profile WRPG titles is almost always found elsewhere, like exploration, characters/dialogue/story, atmosphere, and other miscellaneous bullshit.
that realism is cancer killing fun in games
seems pretty evident
Not an argument but ok
I think there are enough stylized games and realistic games to please both crowds
>garbage like PoE in the same tier as KOTOR
Just off yourself you enormous faggot.
I unironically think Todd Howard and Pete Hines are cool guys. I think if there's a cancer killing TES/Fallout it's Emil Pagliarulo (lead writer).
if the writing were better the games would be good, period. They're fun games at their core imo just need better writing, and better graphics to some extent.
Fallout 4 and Skyrim might have their fucking problems, but what games are the JRPG-fags currently propping up as superior?
So that must be why every site puts Chrono trigger and Final Fantasy 6 as the best RPGs of all time
Even if these are too "weeb" for you, just dark souls shits on the whole wrpg genre
Western rpgs are imaginationless as fuck. Having a "wide as an ocean but shallow as a puddle" gameplay won't make them better designed games.
What's wrong with being fantastical?
most are generic high fantasy that lean too heavily on D&D or Tolkien. Fallout is actually pretty original. The occasional tech future setting is nice too, but those are about as far as western RPG's go with setting
I'd rather have a story and character with some concision and purpose than an overload of poorly paced and disparate vignettes
And I am not talking about combat, retard. Half-decent turn based titles are very few. Western WRPGs have it more often especially older games.
Also Dark Souls' combat is good because it an RPG turning more to action adventure and lacks many other features usually found in RPGs like rich quests or actual dialogue to be had with NPCs.
Monster Hunter on the other hand isn't a proper RPG. Even the Japanese as far as I remember call it Hunting Action. It's more of a co-op action game with gear progression.
And Nier Automata combat is casual shit.
compare bethesda to fatlus
>just dark souls shits on the whole wrpg genre
>Western rpgs are imaginationless as fuck
>Prasing Final Fantasy, Japan's CAll of Duty
Chrono Tirgger is god-tiuer, but it's awful as an RPG and has an enjoyable but infantile shonen-tier story.
Can we stop pretending western, or eastern for that matter, isometric and dungeon crawlers are good? Planescape in particular is a garbage text reading game, ARPGs and SRPGs are the only things worthwhile.
Turn based combat is garbage fuck off
Only a few games do it alright like xcom
The rest can fuck off
nigger you are not alone
You can only blame the writing so much for Todd's deliberate decision to gut the majority of RPG elements to make his games more palatable to the mainstream.
Not surprising Todd is cancer that loves empty, lifeless open world games and "realism." He lists a few of the reasons jrpgs are superior.
Any Falcom game
Gust games that aren't Iris, AT3, and YoruKuni
Atlus games except for P1-2
FFXII&Tactics
Tactics Ogre
Radiant Historia
Breath of Fire III-V
Rune Factory
Utawarerumono
Xenosaga III
etc etc
Are you honestly implying Etrian Odyssesy is better than modern bethshit?
role-playing and rpg are not same word. you can role play if its not an rpg.
rpg means game master gives role to players. if we quote this logic, some wrpg like fallout is completely not a rpg. you are bit a free but it doesnt have role
Seriously hilarious post.
I don't mind the "gutting" of RPG elements as long as the gameplay remains fun. I liked the skill system in FO4. I liked the gunplay. I thought the crafting was enjoyable. I don't care if New Vegas had this or that, Fallout 4 is just more enjoyable to me as a game.
All I really want is better writing (like NV or Morrowind) and a better dialogue system. and cities with more than 6 people
the best WRPGs > all JRPGs > 90% of WRPGs
Yes? How is this even disputable?
>RPG doesn't mean Role-Playing Game
>My yearly cash-grab, low effort, sprite-based, turn-based, grid-based dungeon crawling DS franchise is better than even the worst Bethesda has to offer
You're seriously deluded.
I used to be WRPG > JRPG until I realised that literally the only good WRPG to come out in the last 5 years is TW3. While Japan are putting out games like Nier Automata and P5 that are a breath of fresh air from the Tolkien carbon copies I'm used to. Seriously why are western devs so unoriginal when it comes to world building?
>a beautifully designed game is now bad because it doesn't have pwetty gwafix
>bethesda kids actually believe this
You forgot Pillars of Eternity and Underrail. And probably other titles I would need to check whether they would fit 5 years.
The lore is great, but the games are garbage. All the really cool shit happens in the space between games and what we experience when we play is lame and pales in comparison. Same with the fallout series
I've always liked both. Sometimes I am in the mood for JRPGs, sometimes for WRPGs.
RP means cencept, RPG is a game genre
>"doesn't suspend my disbelief"
I'm much inclined to enjoy wacky setting than a "realistic" yet poorly thought out one where retarded inconsistencies are still addressed by "just turn your brain of bro". The more I think about this quote and the fridge kid being juxtaposed unto one another the more rage I feel.
That's the thing, the lore is incredible, maybe the best in vidya, the actual stories and quests however are shitty formula writing tier at best.
>beautifully designed
They're extremely genric and repetitive. There's literally hundreds of games that are basically the fucking same as EO, which is to say nothing of the fact that they've already pumped out like 10 EO games.
Everyone in this thread plays both, you're not special. No one is autistic enough to genuinely pick a side and never play anything from the other, we're just arguing over what's objectively "better"
He's so baka! He simply can't appreciate super sugoi Japanese vidya because of his gaijin Western ways. His inferior Western games don't even have kawaii girls.
unpopular opinion :^)
i think Oblivion was shit but Skyrim was just as good as Morrowind. obviously they're very different games but Skyrim satisfied my itch to explore and invest myself in a fantastical world in a way Oblivion couldn't.
I also think Skyrim had better gameplay than Morrowind and a more practical skill system