Jump on it

>jump on it
>it moves a bit, but clearly won't let me reach the path below it, which I need to get to
>keep jumping and ignoring what I'm seeing
>get a time over
Wow. HOW was I supposed to know you had to push up and down? I mean there's only 5 buttons and 3 had no effect, but still! Why didn't they TELL ME to push up and down? What shitty fucking game design!

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/2Rs35yd2Jg4?t=1h39m00s
youtube.com/watch?v=A1I8pVi981I
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

>Timing out before figuring it out
I can imagine kids doing that, but that's pathetic as an adult.

>>keep jumping and ignoring what I'm seeing

Because if you timed it well you could bounce it enough with only jumps.

ahaha
youtu.be/2Rs35yd2Jg4?t=1h39m00s

I tried spin dashing and noticed it moved, then I kept pushing down

I just timed my jumps. I assumed the triangles were decorative since they fit in with the rest of the zone.

It's one of those things that sounds dumb in hind sight but this shit was out of left field. As a kid I thought the game was fucking with me and just locked me up in a room for the hell of it.

>Guaranteed momentum lectures cylinder: the Movie
literally retarded.

If you time your jumps it goes higher every time, implying that this is the correct way to do it, and there's a path above it just out of reach that is easier to get to than the lower path.

The up and down arrows are never used for anything like this anywhere else in the game.

Nothing about the barrel is excusable.

>playing with a female streamer now
>Is anoying
I guess im never watching vineshit ever again

This is as far as I got in sonic 3 as a kid. Never figured it out. Not good game design in any way, forever ruined my opinion on Sonic

actually, it takes 3 jumps before the barrel moves from its initial vertical movement and even then it goes lower. From then it begins to rise higher.
There's actually no path above the barrel. The only way to go further in the stage is to go below the barrel.
The up and down arrows can be used on all barrels, but if you wanna argue that there's no mandatory things that use the up and down buttons, you should check out the Tails fight in Marble Garden and the pulleys in Mushroom Hill.

It's an elevator you retard, it goes up and down. What else would you press?

Vinny is so bad but thats why its good.

do you guys understand sarcasm?

>Another damage control thread to make dean's cuphead video look less retarded
2 threads and counting

>i was only pretending to be retarded!

learn to have some fucking reading comprehension, dumbass. OP makes it very clear that he's parodying the people who complain about the barrel

Me too, actually. Thought my game was broken. Turned out it was just a broken game.

It honestly responds to jumping too much. It's not that figuring out up and down works is difficult, it's that jumping feels like it might work way more than it should so some people get stuck in a loop of second guessing whether they're just not doing it right or what.

We're not doing this again Dean. Stop repeating yourself and let it go that maybe you're not as smart as you want to believe if you had trouble beating an obstacle in a game with 5 buttons where 3 are immediately proven to not work.

No it doesn't. Jumping takes just as long to actually affect the barrel's movement as pushing up and down. In fact, it actually takes longer since up and down gets straight to the point while jumping has you wait for Sonic to come back down to the ground.
The barrel does not react any faster or any better to jumping.
Not to even mention that after a bit of jumping, the barrel automatically snaps back to it's original position, so it should become clear that jumping isn't doing much.
You guys just say this kind of fucking nonsense because you can't accept that there's literally nothing wrong with the barrel

>Spend half a minute jumping on it.
"yeah okay this is taking too long there must be some other way"

It feels that way because jumping can work and the similar barrels you go through earlier are solved by jumping. It's legit bad game design

imakuni has been a vinesauce streamer for a long time
also she's the only one that pretty much has an interest in sonic and vinny doesn't, so she actually got him to play it.
i don't watch imakuni, but don't go spewing shit about a one off thing

No, YOU solved them by jumping. They could also be solved by pushing up and down. This is like rolling into a wall instead of spindashing. YOU'RE the one who did it, the game didn't say "hey roll into this". YOU ARE THE ONE THAT DECIDED TO JUMP. The game had no bearing on your childish mindset

>barrel gives false feedback
>previous barrels are solved by the thing giving false feedback
>actual solution is a mechanic never used up til that point and never used again

Sounds a textbook case of bad game design

No, the previous barrels are not solved by jumping because there are multiple paths accessible by using said barrel, which is not a "solvable" puzzle and entirely different to the situation later where you have to push the barrel downwards specifically to proceed. Please give it up because you're only going to make yourself look even worse.

Literally 20 different people are telling you it's bad design. It's bad design you apologist. Even the creators admitted it. Fuck off.

why don't you fuck off? Are you guys seriously so shitty at games that you can't adapt to a new concept or gameplay mechanic without being told exactly how to do it?

>"20" people
You really think you're fooling anyone?

>roll into a wall
>the wall breaks
>keep doing it and get past all types of paths
>reach one where I don't ave enough room to roll
>have to spindash even though up until then I could get away with never using it and even after I never have to use it
fucking bad game design

The elevator button. Unless Sonic can control the elevator with his mind, since the d-pad controls sonic.

>HURRR THERE'S ONLY X NUMBER OF BUTTONS

That's autistic as fuck bro. People don't interact with games by thinking about pushing buttons, they think about the actions they're doing. Since the barrel responds to jumping, and jumping is a WAY more common solution to obstacles than pressing down, it's perfectly understandable that people got stuck.

Face it, the barrel was bad design.

There's only a significant visual payoff if you press the two buttons alternating a significant amount. Meanwhile, jumping makes the barrel shift instantaneously, and bouncing on it gives you enough of an increase in height to get to a seperate platform. The fact of the matter is that the barrel having multiple different mechanics makes it difficult to figure out what you're meant to be doing, especially when its an ultimately completely unused mechanic aside from a stage IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME.

>have 3 buttons
>1 is clearly not working
>only have 2 left
>not experimenting with them
you're fault

The problem is this. Many of them respond to the weight of Sonic and do bounce around up and down at a more extreme verticality with more force you put down on it. Not only that there is zero reason to stop everything you are doing and adhere to the barrel and press up and down in those previous sequences. It is one thing in Marble Zone since that is more platforming orientated with waiting on the blocks crossing, but pressing up and down isn't as orientated towards platforming unlike fully controlling your character. There is no other instance beforehand in Sonic 3 up to that point or previous Sonic games which required you to interact with an object you had to press up and down. Everything else before hand was solved with Sonic's move set. Controlling the barrel has very little to do with Sonic's move set outside of the ability to jump off of it.

Running on the nut in Metropolis Zone was only going left or right, but it was easy to figure out since it locked you onto the nut and pressing one direction got you instant feedback and that it was intuitive. The crescents in Star Light Zone that are spiked on the bottom and can scoop you up into a ball just needed to have you jump out of it, it was intuitive. Hell, lets use a later example in Death Egg Zone in Sonic & Knuckles. Those bridges that shift due to your weight. You see the side you are on sags so you quickly begin to understand how they function and that is how they function.

All of these obstacles and gimmicks are all easily understood and give correct feedback and all utilize Sonic's pre-existing move set to tackle them.

The barrel does not.

You walk into it like every single elevator in Sonic games. You don't ever need to press up in the elevators in Casino Night Zone.

The spin dash is a roll, though. Using up and down to move a platform usually has visual feedback, but the visual feedback is obscured by the fact that jumping has the same visual feedback. It's not intuitive at all.

If you have to be taken out of the game to experiment with buttons, it's bad design. Like said, people normally think about the reactions caused by button presses, and since Sonic never controls a platform when you press up and down, you would think doing something with his abilities would solve he problem. Also, jumping causes an immediate reaction on the barrel, the d-pad takes a little longer.

The best part is, some of the barrels just fucking completely move on their own, and can't be altered at all! There's literally zero consistency to the fucking thing, not even slightly. People shouting that it's super easy either were children that mashed their whole controller like a retard when they got stuck, or people who knew the answer before they started playing and are just trying to be contrarian.

All three buttons on a Genesis controller are jump

>1 is clearly not working

Uh, what? The barrel clearly responds to jumping, even if it doesn't ultimately work. Combine that with having tails there to muddy the waters (Not the first time the series let tails fuck you over btw.) and the fact that the barrel is offscreen after the highest possible jump, and you have a recipe for confusion.

>People don't interact with games by thinking about pushing buttons
>"I turned on the game, how do I go? do I push this button?"
woo I guess it is all about the buttons you have after all
The barrel reaches it's limit immediately only by jumping, if you're not braindead or autistic you would see this, you would also notice that you want the barrel to move, not use the barrel to move you.
>There's only a significant visual payoff if you press the two buttons alternating a significant amount
WATCH
THE
WEBM
DEAN
This is genuinely pathetic at this point. How long have you been doing this? Months? Years? Every time you get told the same thing, and you cry and cover your eyes and come back pretending to be someone else repeating the same tired argument and ignore the same rebuttals because your mind cannot comprehend the thought that maybe you just misunderstood something that many other people figured out in a matter of seconds.

Please stop

>implying meme cylinder is difficult

>Implying I got passed the ant lion boss on Game Gear

I finished sonic 2 multiple times as a kid and as a teen, but I don't remember for the life of me ever getting stuck in that barrel. Is there no other route you can take to avoid it?

Wrong. If we're talking about the barrel already in movement, jumping doesn't actually show any visual payoff until you jump a significant amount. When you jump, the barrel continues its initial path and when you land, Sonic just clips back on to it, no shifting.
Jumping only makes an immediate difference when jumping while the barrel is stationary, however doing this can only move the barrel once.
Also let's not pretend that there aren't other one-off mechanics in this game that weren't explained
There's no reason to stop everything you are doing and continue jumping, however to get the barrel to make an actual shift in initial movement, you'd have to jump a few times. It's you. You were the one that kept jumping even though it only changed Sonic's height initially and it did not change the barrel's height at all. You were the one that kept doing it for no logical reason, as watching it the first few times would give the implication that it can not be moved from its initial movement.
There actually is the part in Marble Garden where you fly with tails. It's completely counter-intuitive too, as naturally playing as Tails would control differently.
You're locked onto the barrel and pushing up/down or jumping gets you the same feedback in terms of real time, as in, it takes a significant amount of time and effort in both cases to see any feedback. It's counter-intuitive either way, but that doesn't imply that it's bad game design. It's simply a new mechanic that you were asked to think about to figure out. You want to move the barrel up and down? You push up and down.

>There is no other instance beforehand in Sonic 3 up to that point or previous Sonic games which required you to interact with an object you had to press up and down.
Wrong again buddy boy. Every level has multiple unique gimmicks many of which use up and down buttons.
To save everyone some time they should just read the past thread to see how retarded this guy is and his general modus operandi.
He's already copying the opposition's words because he can't think for himself

>d-pad control's sonic's movement
>use the d-pad to control sonic's movement on the thing
Really causes one to ponder.

>Is there no other route you can take to avoid it?
Yes, playing Sonic 2, since the barrel is in Sonic 3.

You're probably just not retarded. Don't worry, it happens.

I played it on SMS and i've completed it a bunch of times.

stop posting this webm. I made it as a joke, it's fake. That's not a real section in the game. Please stop associating it with your little outbursts

By playing Sonic 2 because that barrel is from Sonic 3/& Knuckles.

...

Sonic doesn't go up by pressing up. And pressing down makes him crouch or roll. It's a sidescroller game.

o-oh, that explains it.

I've beaten Sonic 3 at least a dozen times as a kid and this is the first time I've ever hard of using the d-pad on that.
Just kept timing jumps on it until it gave way.
Always assumed it was babbys first casual filter.

He does when he's on something that can take him up and down. Like the barrel, Tails during the Marble Garden bossfight, and Hydrocity poles.

This could have been solved if there was an additional visual indication that pressing up and down did anything. Sonic just stands there on the barrel regardless of your inputs and the oscillation is visually identical to the bouncing it does when you land on it.

liar. It's physically impossible to get through via jumping

Git gud faggt

Wish I played it on that, there is zero reaction time given for the bouncing balls.

A "casual filter" is not an excuse for shitty, cheap design.
Dark souls 2 is poorly designed too.

Up and down arrows are used for the ratchet things in Mushroom Hill

So in Sonic & Knuckles, not Sonic 3.

>it takes a significant amount of time and effort in both cases to see any feedback
Actually, as shown in the webm that he keeps ignoring, the barrel immediately starts increasing in velocity from the very first cycle. It starts gradually but it's far from difficult to notice. It's also easier to notice than it is if you're jumping because you're focusing mainly on the barrel relative to it's surroundings which aren't rapidly shifting due to you jumping.

Up isn't used. You press down to pull on the pulley. The pulley moves down instantly and noticeably when you press down. Letting go moves you up and doesn't reset you back to the beginning when you stop pressing down.

defend the tails fight then, go on, i wanna see you do it

I can handle the barrel, but let's be honest; nothing in the entire game up to this point nor after really requires using up and down. With no Super Peel-Out, holding up is only for looking up, and down is only for looking down and the Spin Dash. As a result of no conveyance, and no consistency, the barrel being controlled by pressing up and down is basically something out of left field for a new player.

It's like when Mighty No. 9 forces a player to deal with Crouch Dashing underneath two instant death pink generators with pixel perfect precision. The problem is that up to that point, the character automatically crouchdashed under low ceilings, and indeed, it's at best used maybe once or twice manually in the entire rest of the game afterwards as well but only mandatory for that one part. Consequently, the (retarded) devs put a button prompt for this as a band-aid ontop of the problem.

You don't introduce a gimmick with a unique method of control for one zone with absolutely no conveyance and then don't even bother to try to have anything else like that, much less with no way to actually teach the player beyond trial-and-error or the devs directly stepping in and saying "this is what you do".

What kinda faggot plays the game solely as tails?

"up and down to fly is natural even though it's not how Tails flies and only I get to choose what's ok and what isn't"

Casual filter as in "learn to time your jumps properly you little shit", not "learn to compare everything to a below average game that's only difficult if you're unobservant".

Defend Marble Garden? That is the worst zone in the Genesis Sonic games.

that immediate movement is the barrel's initial movement. It does that right when you step on it. The guy in the webm starts pushing up/down around 3 seconds in and you don't see any noticeable difference until about 7 seconds in. I do agree on the surroundings thing though

This barrel was nothing but bad game design. The ONLY other instance where you really used Dpad to control a mechanism was the rachets in Mushroom Hill, and that was obvious what had to be done.

This not only doesn't seem practical to use Dpad, but also leads you into a false sense of action by moving once you land on it, making you think that you have to jump and use momentum to get it to move. You can't say the "Visual Design" was a hint because it fit in with the rest of the level, and if I remember, there were already barrels like this that simply spun around with the same design.

fucking read the god damn thread, it's been said like 10 times already

Jumping causes you to fall off, and having Tails stop for a second to gain a little height is a very instant and noticeable difference from constantly falling. You only need to do it once to see the effects.

if you got stuck on the cylinder you have literally no business talking about game design.

>There are "people" who actually got stuck on the barrel and ran out of time
>Spending minutes doing the same thing with no result, and not trying any new technique, not even pressing up to go up or down to go down
How is it even possible to be this dumb?

Even without the barrel, Carnival Night's pretty long. On my S3 Complete run a couple weeks ago, I was upwards to eight minutes by the time I hit the act two boss, and that was with minimal issues involving the barrel.

Wrong. He starts pressing up and down immediately, the height at 2 seconds is the initial height from that first step onto it (reaching the top of the yellow mark) and the following height at 3 seconds is higher (reaching the next notch in between the previous and next yellow mark). I ain't saying watch the webm for the good of my health.
What did I tell you all? The only new addition Dean's making here is the mention of the other barrels which are IMMEDIATELY recognizable as being and working completely different because of how they move, how they react and where they are located. Also the visual design of the walls is less of a hint and more of a visual aid to make the change in height more easily apparent. For people that look at what they're doing anyway.

There's no indication anywhere in the game that alludes to the fact that pressing up and down shifts your weight. Why should it, either? Pressing up just tilts Sonic's head. Meanwhile jumping on it causes it to bounce around, and is incidentally all you need to do to interact with every single other bouncing column in the Zone.

Compare it to, say, the lifts in Lava Reef Zone that you have to spindash on to move up and down. There's nothing explicitly telling you how to operate these machines, but their designs and the fact they don't respond to anything except a spindash means players can intuitively figure it out, along with the fact that literally 99% of problems in the game are solved by jumping or spindashing (the other 1% being this particular barrel).

Yes, anyone should be able to figure it out relatively quickly just by pressing buttons, but isn't that bad game design in itself? If a game element leaves you so clueless that you just start hitting every button on your controller hoping that one of them has a special, unknown function that will work? It's definitely shitty game design, even though it is not as difficult to overcome as some people make it out to be.

None of those are comparable, and in regards to the Tails fight on Marble Garden, it's pretty simple: when you are Sonic, you are on the ground, and since it's a sidescroller game, you can go left or right; when you are Sonic + Tails you are on the air, so you can move freely on the four directions. If you press jump, Sonic jumps, so you immediately knows the response of the 3 action buttons on the controller. What is left is up and down on the d-pad, both of wich give a different and immediate response to your inputs: going up and down.

>The barrel reacts when I jump on it
>Jumping at the right time launches me higher
>Maybe I'm just timing it wrong
Cue 5+ minutes of jumping on the barrel to find the right rhythm.

and? All you had to do was push up and down for a bit to see the effects. The same way you had to jump for a bit to see the effects. There's no immediate visual cue for either scenario unless you jump when the barrel is completely still, yet after that the barrel would lock back into it's initial movement until you jumped a few more times, after a bit more of jumping it will clip back to it's natural position. You'd have to be daft to continue jumping after seeing these effects. If you push up and down for about the same amount of time as jumping, the barrel will stay in that movement and will not lock up or clip.

Nailed it.

>it's okay when i say it is

>if you fall for bad game design, as a child, then you can't talk about game design

Excellent logic. kys

There's also the fact that even if you do start using up and down, the effects aren't exactly immediate and require timing. So either way you do it, you're still hitting a complexity that, in the following Ice Cap Zone, has similarly timed platforms that solely respond to when you press the jump button and how much momentum a drop carries into the platforms.

Maybe I have ADHD or something but I never press up and rarely down in a platformer whether it's mario, sonic, megaman, etc. Seems kind of pointless

No, because the proper way to do this is to randomly and unassistedly stumble across the solution of using up/down on the d-pad.
That didn't require any "skill" or "game knowledge". It's just poorly designed.
Stop shilling.

SHUT UP YOU CASUALS THE BARREL WAS GOOD GAME DESIGN BECAUSE IT OUTED THE SHITTERS GAMES NEED TO BE LESS CAUSAL AND MORE PUNISHING BECAUSE GE BACK THEN HAS CHALLENGE TO THEM

This is figured out in seconds since you get instant feed back on what you are doing. If Tails always needed the player the mash the jump button to make him go higher on flight and that is just making Sonic jump but Tails is flying and he can still go higher then there has to be another button I can use.

There is nothing deceptive about it. It wasn't like to ascend was mapped to the C button or anything like that for the single fight.

>wait on my first jump I reach the roof and can't go higher
>wait there's a path downwards that I can somewhat see but jumping mostly just lets me go higher
>wait this timing is barely changing even if I do it perfectly
All achievable in about 5 seconds.

youtube.com/watch?v=A1I8pVi981I

I agree

The ONLY thing that tells you to press up and down, is if you just so happen to press up and down. That's FLAWED DESIGN. Maybe it'd be alright, but there is a time limit to each level. You can't point at a visual design of the level and say that it's supposed to help you, because the entire level of Carnival Night Zone is an aesthetic eye popping carnival design. Those "Visual Aids" simply look like decorations.