Was there ever a worse final boss fight in modern, high-budget RPG history?
>hey, how should we do this fight against a vague character who was never really established as all that threatening to the player?
>got it! Let's make it even easier than a regular boss fight, not have him transform, and basically make it a QTE
I actually liked this game a lot but this was embarassing.
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Even after 10 years, development was still somehow rushed on this game.
Maybe if Square stopped fucking with it throughout its development the last half would have made more sense.
In my opinion it wasn't rushed - they knew exactly what they were opening. They wanted to sell as much as they could, so they put other parts of the story in other media and still upcoming DLC.
I hate that shit really... Final Fantasy developers think that they have to reinvent the wheel with every iteration of the game, but at this point true creativity would be just giving us a fully-contained and one complete game.
The FF series really struggles with final bosses in general imo. FFX had a decent fight with braska's final aeon then the most boring garbage with yu yevon.
The Yu Yevon fight was a travesty and a waste of time. Not sure why they couldn't just rework it very slightly, heal your characters and then offer up a save point right before the fight begins.
They wanted to end it on a QTE I guess. FF7 ends the same way basically.
yeah
Yu Yevon was worse than a quicktime event because they actually pretended it was a regular battle - it was a QTE that lasted a full 15 minutes.
And FF7 was 20 years ago. also their QTEs suck, you don't even have to press them and they have no imptact to them because it's just normal attacks with slow mo that sets in too early
It hoenstly feels like the team is full of amateurs that were handed technology above their leve.
Those guys should stick with PSP games
Well, 2 years of actual development of the final product which even then was still having revisions. Virtually everything before 2015 was nonworking and practically still concept.
I honestly prefer ardyn to FF10s final boss.
He's so handsome he deserves to be the final boss.
>Well, 2 years of actual development of the final product
which means fuck all when it was announced 10 years ago as Versus XIII
but it was ANIME as fuck so who cares, right?
>Was there ever a worse final boss fight in modern, high-budget RPG history?
Still mad
By that do you mean Yu Yevon or Jecht? I know technically it was the former but Braska's Final Aeon is basically the final boss. The nonsense that was the Ardyn fight means that essentially FFXV did not have a final boss at all.
Yu yevon. If we draw the parallel then that would make Ifrit the equivalent to Braska, or maybe the behemoth and I enjoyed those fights.
Ultimecia was actually a pretty decent last boss, fighting multiple forms of her, she can lock away your moves and the last few attacks, no matter how much damage you do it gets her to give a speech per each attack and then finally she is destroyed.
I actually liked him as an antagonist, but that fight was fucking terrible because FFXV's whole combat system is tedious, repetitive, and shallow. The turtle super boss is one of the lamest chores I've put myself through, the only "challenge" in it is not falling asleep.
It's not so much that they fucked with the development as much as it is that they didn't have a schedule set in the first place.
Yu Yevon at least made sense thematically, Ardyn had flashy shit out the ass but nothing of substance, just some dragon ball z button mashing and a stupid 1v1 sequence.
It's only a QTE at the end, and the main boss fight was when you fight a god with your bros a little earlier. This was more like the Yu Yevon or Sephiroth "fights" after the actual final boss, except Ardyn had fail states.
Meh, I actually enjoyed the combat system but my main gripe with it was that it made the game too easy. If you had a stock of, just say, 20 phoenix downs and 50 or so potions, there was almost no chance you would ever lose. You could probably waltz into the final few battles of the storyline and win with a party that was only leveled enough for the early mid-point of the game, in theory.
>I actually liked this game a lot
opinion discarded
Did it? Why was he healing you?
Everyone at SE are incompetent chimps, except for whoever makes those magical graphics.
I think it was more the design of FFXII as a whole as your license board completion gets so ridiculous and you get a metric ton of gambit slots that you can pretty much put the controller down and go do some chores while your party slowly cheeses him and self sustain themselves with heals.
How's Zodiac Age by the way?
OP here. I guess I should clarify and say that I liked the main characters and the first part of the open world game. I've played a lot of games with open worlds and this one actually did a ton of things right; somehow they made everything lively and make tedious quests feel fun, unlike some other open world games in which everything feels dead and quests don't feel like you're really doing anything.
How did you feel about the Ifrit fight?
It's not even possible to lose to Yu Yevon unless you intentionally hit yourself with stone weapons, so I wouldn't count him as a boss.
It's the final fight of the game. They chose to end it on that note instead of a solid fight.
>It's only a QTE at the end
the final fight if XV is 3 parts:
1 a standard fight. 1v1 against Ardyn where it fights like a normal fight. Really good fight because Ardyn also warp strikes and weapon swap.
2 both of you go into the Arglimeter mode and it's impossible to tell if your attacks were hitting
3 the QTE
Because the spiral cannot be allowed to end.
>Really good fight
the first part was really good compared to the rest of the fight
That's a low bar. FFXV's boss fights are awful in general.
So he helps you end it? Nah I think the entire inside of sin was pretty dogshit except for the jecht fight. And even that was nothing special.
I can't even tell what's considered a good fight these days. Any 1v1 fight in XV is not good even the Aranea fight isn't and it's the best the game has to offer. Bosses just stand around too much or don't react to hits at all and jsut randomly break your combos when they feel like it or charge up their 20 second super attacks while you wait and hold the parry button, Ravusis the worst contender.
Pretty cool, but not challenging enough for what it amounted to basically being, which was a final "normal" boss fight.
Bump up Ifrit's attack, defense and HP a little more, put in some gimmick like Ardyn blocking a certain level of usage of healing items, and suddenly it feels a lot better, I bet.
Ardyn's first form was a good fight, not just for FFXV, but in general.
Ardyn was just a bad villain in general. He didn't really /do/ anything at all, and his reveal as the first king of Lucis or whatever seems very last-minute. Compare this to a villain like Kefka, who has a larger-than-life presence, who is constantly scheming and acting as an obstacle to the protagonists, and his impact on the World of Ruin is almost palpable. Ardyn's gay eternal darkness shit in FFXV doesn't even come close.
>That's a low bar. FFXV's boss fights are awful in general.
True.
There's just something about 1v1 mirror matches in action RPGs that are done well despite the rest of the game being crap.
I'm not the user that originally said it made sense, and it's been like a decade since I last touched X. I just vaguely recall something along those lines.
Nah more like 3 1/2 years. They just wasted 90% of their time on creating one big desert area and duscae and some dungeons and then forgot that the game also needs a story and a good final stretch, not too mention all the polls and fan feedback. How little can you trust your dev team.
The whole development is just fucked even after it became XV. Shit changed even in late 2015, especially gameplay things which is retarded
>The Undying
Somehow he ends up being one of my most memorable final bosses, just because on my first playthrough I was underleveled and beat him by the skin of my teeth. Down to my last healing item, characters low on power, and I was a kid who hadn't yet mastered gambits etc.
I don't think Ardyn was that bad. You're comparing him to one of the best villains in the series. Compare him to Seymour or something and he starts looking a lot better.
It's common for stuff like that to change even more than halfway into development. It's only noticeable because Square Enix put out playable demos of the game and communicated just about everything in the game like it was being designed by the fans or something.
Just don't let all this shit carry over into future mainline FFs, how hard can it be to just make a full finished game with a clear vision
If i want an early access game i'll go look on the steam trends
Seymour at least was featured in a game with a fully realized narrative. Ardyn is nothing because his game is nothing.
When you're Square Enix it is quite difficult.
It felt like they were afraid that people forget about it. I don't get why they didn't put it on hold or cancelled it in 2011 and make an actual new mailine FF instead of playing around with this dev playground frankenstein monster
They just released it too early and had people along for the ride. Most of the series has gone back and forth like this.
FF7 went through several different ideas including a NYC detective story. FF9 was going to be about two dragoons at one point. I think Tidus was supposed to be a snowboarder or some shit at one point.
You must be playing some very bottom-of-the-barrel open world games then, because I honestly wasn't impressed.
I'm not sure how you consider it lively when there's a distinct lack of towns, lore, NPCs, or side quests that aren't just "fetch this" or "hunt that." The world just doesn't feel lived in.
Sunk cost fallacy, I imagine.
Yeah let's not pretend 10 had a good narrative. Seymour was a garbage can regardless of your deflection there.
It arguably has a better one than most of the games in the series, but that's a pretty low bar. FF has never had great story telling.
Imo no fight was good or felt good in XV. The doding system just didn't feel rewarding and didn't really need any skill or timing except for like 2-3 super boss attacks in the game.
Even the Ardyn fight is just hold dodge while he attacks, attack yourself, wait for warpstrike while holding dodge, attack yourself, repeat till the horrible second phase starts
Never been disappointed for game when this shittery was introduced at last second
Why do people still give 2 fucks about FF nowadays?
I don't even think it's good by FF standards. It leans really hard on boring tricks like the outsider. You don't get to discover anything for yourself. Tidus says "huh?" and then Lulu explains it to the player.
>He thinks Ardyn is inferior to Seymour, Mateus, Cloud of Darkness, Shadow Lord or Dysley
You don't know jack shit about Final Fantasy.
You're nuts. X's story was miles above most Final Fantasies - certainly no game in the series since has had a better narrative, at least.
No different from other games, FFX simply justifies it.
I guess, but at least you couldn't clearly see the changes or cuts in those games and they didn't throw them in your face as if they're proud of them. The whole mobile game shit and pre release anime and movie etc. didn't help either.
They just had the wrong priorities. The game world really didn't need to be this big when they don't know how to fill it with content and good hunts. A smaller world with more variety would've been way better and of course way more characters exposition which should be away bigger focus in a game like this. It even took them a fucking year to let you accept more than one hunt at a time. How did that even get through QA
A villain is only as good as the narrative he is contained within. FFXV is disjointed, so Ardyn is incapable of doing anything for the story.
The outsider trope was good for that world though. Compared to say XV in which the characters know everything, therefore no one explains anything, and we the audience are left not knowing a fucking thing because of it.
Not really. Most of the earlier games you would just talk to npcs to figure that shit out. FF10 does a poorly voice acted cutscene where Lulu flat out tells you shit.
I'm going to disagree. Especially using the word story, a story includes characters and most of Xs were fucking awful.
The answer is more npcs then, not ham fisted exposition.
How is talking to some random bum who for some reason is in the mood to tell you how the world works any different from a major character doing it?
>we have sooo much story for ardyn and luna
>but it's so much that non of it was in the main game and we might make it DLC or just cutscenes
>also please be excite for our second season pass
All the XV interviews have been some of the worst shit in years.
If FF continues like this i'll just stop playing the series
I think it's downright funny they are still continuing the game and even adding multiplayer a year later. What the fuck is this game?
Thematically Ardyn was alright even if the game sort of abandoned the whole brotherhood shit for the sake of muh King. And as others have said, the first part of the fight is.. alright, fighting what's basically a mirror version of yourself is neat in concept but the battle system is as clunky as ever. Considering Ardyn was an attempt at Kefka 2.0 except "justified", I can't really consider him a good character for a final boss, especially given that Ifrit being responsible for the Starscourge in the first place is barely hinted at and shoved into a fucking strategy guide tidbit as you have some big cinematic boss fight and then fuck that guy, who cares aboutta Ifrit when there's-a bigga fish ta fry???
And then the incredibly broken Armiger flying shit occurs and the game just becomes a fucking mess until the ending finally comes and gives you a bittersweet release.
People that have enjoyed the previous games of the franchise are now forever cursed to play these games in the vain hope that Square won't fuck it up this time.
It can be done a lot more naturally. The rest of the series managed it without a designated exposition character.
Finding a way to charge players for playing the same game over and over has been the dream of developers since games started leaving arcades. They just got more hungry because they see how much mobile shit can make by doing the same thing. They'd charge you every time you loaded the game up if they could.
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THe whole combat system just makes it feel like you're doing nothing but waiting while holding either attack or dodge. The game became a victim of fan feedback, especailly from nips, they even complained that duscae was too hard
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Yup. I am forever cursed. Playing a Final Fantasy is not so much a choice as it is a duty. I may not play them right away (like XV in which I put off for about 9 months before buying), but when they put out a main, numbered entry in the series. I gotta play it eventually. It will always linger in the back of my mind as a game that I "have" to eventually get and beat.
There are many of us like this. Those of us cursed to walk this world attached to our Squenix marionette strings, surned onwards only by our memories of VI and VII.
Just wait for the slighly more complete version in 2019 for 69.99
I've played and enjoyed every mainline game in the series. You can just stop if you're not enjoying them you know.
>Shadow Lord
>final boss
I'd say he's more like a mid-boss. He even has a whole "fights against the real big bad to let the player escape" moment.
Ultimicia for me is the best final boss in this series. The final phase is intense and the music perfectly fits with the sense of urgency the player has to finish her.