We are back at square one

Just like how 06 killed the Adventure style of gameplay. Forces killed the Boost style. This is one of the only times the west knows better then the East. Sonic Team and Japan in general need to fuck off from Sonic.

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Until autism is cured Sega will continue to produce bad Sonic games.

>Forces killed the Boost style
If only

What the fuck was sonic team thinking?

I think they need to get rid of Iizuka.

>Only returning level designer was from Lost World
They weren't

>The next game is going to be avatar only

>this kills boost
Good.

Bring back Adventures style but actually hire competent devs so its not half assed and buggy. I like SA1, SA2, and Sonic Heroes well enough despite the flaws so its worth bringing that style back as long as they dont make another Sonic 06.

What's with Sonic's physics?

He controlled completely different from Generations and Unleashed.

>actually hire competent devs
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I don't rememner the last time I had such strong buyers remorse

Sega of Japan is just full of brain deceased retards. It's been like this since the Sega Megadrive days.

Is there any other super popular franchise as consistently shit as Sonic?

Boost has been the best thing to happen to modern Sonic, what the fuck are you talking about you absolute philistines?

Dude they attempted to kill boost with LW, since that failed along with boom, they had to go back and rush a quick game.
Will it kill it again? Who knows

No, it wasn't. Now shut the fuck up.

Where the fuck was the Generations team? They brought back directs and producers from 06. Sega of Japan didn’t see 06 as a failure like the rest of the world since Silver is loved over there for some reason and the Japanese Sonic fans have no taste

The director of Generations was put on the Mario & Sonic Rio 2016 3DS game.

The producer of Forces was from 06 (I don't think he was a problem in Forces desu) and the director was from Colors and Lost World.

No, you autistic cunt, listen here. Boost was the BEST thing to happen to modern Sonic. Adventure 1 and 2 are okay, but nowhere near as fun as LITERALLY hitting Sonic speeds with the boost. It makes the nigga actually FEEL FAST.

You realize that's what ST wanted from the get-go, right? SoA and SoE is the reason is wasn't. Thank fuck.

The direction they were going with lost world was better, they just didn't use all it's potential and made sonic a little too slow.

Can we try parkour from Lost World again but improved please.

They'll never go back man.
Wonder when will SoA or SoE fund their own non ST sonic game, unless mania counts.
Maybe try 3D

>This is one of the only times the west knows better then the East. Sonic Team and Japan in general need to fuck off from Sonic.
Are Maniafags the next big cancer of the Sonic fanbase?

Forgive me if the analogy isn't great, but in my opinion, a roller-coaster with many ups and downs and different speeds is much more fun than a near-straight track where you're almost always going super fast. I prefer the heavy momentum based platforming of the classic games, which they STILL haven't managed to perfectly capture in a 3D game.

This, they were getting close but they decided to just scrap in favor of doing boost again but worse.

I hope forces killed the boost, shits the worst thing to happen to sonic since 06, honestly if sonic didnt have that cancerous anti-momentum homing attack in 06 id prefer that game to anything coming out
save for the shadow levels in forces, if the game was all shadow levels with sweet remixes of old songs the game would be fucking great

the difference is that when you go fast in the adventure games youre in FULL control
YOU are going fast

when you hit the fucking boost button in new sonic games youre literally watching sonic go fast, might as well just be watching the game play its self

sonic should have the control and platforming of adventure games with the speed capabilities and level size of boost games
or at least make the boost ACTUALLY limited, like making it so the gage has to be full in order to even activate and if you fall out of it even once you have to refill the gage all over again

>the difference is that when you go fast in the adventure games youre in FULL control
YOU are going fast
Yeah you're in full control going fast down linear pathways with boost pats and springs and scripted ramp sequences that if you try and disengage from 90% of the time you just die.

It realy sounds like their main project fell apart and they had to quickly cobble something together from what they had.

its finding the 10% that gives you the real feel of fast bud, homing attack platforming and lightspeed dash all give you the real feeling of going fast as sonic

boost games are 100% linear scripted paths, just keep the boost gage up and watch sonic clear through a stage, no challenge, no danger

in an adventure game sonic going through a lightspeed dash into a wave of baddies to homing attack past and then landing onto a dashpad etc etc is how sonic FEELS fast in adventure games, you control the momentum and through skill achieve the speed you want, in a boost game you would literally just boost through all of that with no inputs unless the game forces you to homing attack for height, boost games have no tempo its just holding a single button and watching sonic boost through enemies while hes invincible

Hey guys, this is actually an official survey put out by SEGA regarding Forces.
docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfNowGW4qwu0NVUUHbrDVD66mkVGPezMo1xFGWcv1zFCZM0QQ/viewform

SEGA seems to be actually listening this time.

Nah. I'd rather they try something with actual physics and momentum.

>The direction they were going with lost world was better
No it wasn't. It was a Mario Galaxy knockoff and had clunky as fuck controls with no sense of momentum at all. The direction it was headed wasn't fixing any of the fundamental problems with 3D Sonic, and yet it wasn't breaking it either. It was turning it into something else entirely.

Also, fun fact: Forces is literally built off of the Forces engine. So there's your """"potential"""" in action.

I can't wait for the autistic apologists and the "hurr I'll just buy it ironically to piss off the haters" fags to feel this too

>boost is finally dead with this game
>chance the next style they make can actually utilize physics and momentum
I changed my mind, Forces is EXACTLY what we needed.

Forces is built off of LW's engine.

>when a 12 year old has a better grasp on game design than you

fuck forces, post rouge instead

Those physics make me nauseous

rouge lost her charm in forces too, her old VA made her sound seductive now shes just lower pitched amy

Wrong, Lost world was still based off the Hedgehog engine, they seemed to have completely dropped it here.

>No, you autistic cunt, listen here. Boost was the BEST thing to happen to modern Sonic. Adventure 1 and 2 are okay, but nowhere near as fun as LITERALLY hitting Sonic speeds with the boost. It makes the nigga actually FEEL FAST.
The reason that all the modern boost games have so much filler and alternate gameplay styles (werehog, wisp, classic Sonic, OC) in them is because if it were only boosting, the gameplay would feel short and hollow as fuck. Which is why you never get to play as Sonic without some forced gimmick. It's to pad out game time. The boost is more of a detriment than a benefit.

And yet Adventure 1 does that less than the Boost games do, which is 100% of the time.

I'm not saying SA1 wasn't scripted out the ass, because it was, but there's also a fair chunk of the game that you play yourself and it's in those particular sections that you feel like you obtained the speed naturally, rather than just hitting a button and watching Sonic go.

The boost itself isn't even bad. It's just implemented incorrectly. The entire game shouldn't be focused around the boost, the boost should be a by product of skillful play. I'm not saying Advance 2 style boost needs to come back, but I do think that making boosting a reward rather than something the game gives out freely is a step in the right direction.

I dunno guys, the 10% I remember of the adventure games was buggy ass slow platforming and terrible other characters.

The "Hedgehog Engine" was nothing more than a lighting engine. Why does everyone forget that and think it ever had anything to do with physics?

Iizuka talking about how much better the game is thanks to the "Hedgehog Engine 2" is nothing more than horseshit like Blast Processing.

>There are people in this very thread who trusted Sonic Team enough to buy this game
>And some of those people probably didn't even buy Mania
It's like you fucks NEVER LEARN! What really stings is that Sega being the spiteful fucks they are will probably never make a game like Mania again because of the reaction Forces is getting.

The hedgehog engine is just a lighting engine.

Honestly they should head in a Sonic Utopia fashion
Yeah yeah I know Utopia gets memed here but they're honestly on to something. Sonic games are best as short, sweet, highly replayable experiences. If I was Sonic team the next 3d game would be an open-world affair with multiple objectives per level and secrets everywhere. Give Sonic some cool parkour moves like wallrunning, slide-into-roll, ledge-grabbing etc and give the player multiple things to do per level. Sonic Utopia is honestly a lot of fun thanks to it's physics but there's so much more you can do with the concept.

Sonic has and always will be about momentum and spectacle, and what better way to milk that shit then letting the player experience it on their own?

>buggy slow

thats because you were shit, I clear through sonic and shadow stages smoothly and quickly hitting the perfect jumps and using the homing attack to fix momentum when I fuck up
your sonic is slow because youre slow, thats why shit players like you enjoy boost games since you dont have to earn speed with skill

>terrible other characters
sega always feels the need to toss in extra tidbits in order to add verity, complaining about them is akin to me calling boost games shit because werehog sonic existed

Where'd you even find this?

They need to outsource the series to a competent dev. Sonic Team needs to get the axe.
I think Lost World was a good step, as far as movement options go, but it fucked up a lot with its speed and shit level design. I think Lost World + Unleashed style controls combined with a more open ended Adventure level design would be the best bet.
Sonic needs to copy Mario more, more movement options, larger more open levels, actual enemy variety.

I don't get how anyone could believe this game was going to be good after all the footage we saw before release.
Are people really so illiterate and naive about videogames they can't see when a game is shit just by looking at gameplay footage? Or is it blind fanboyism?

I haven't even played the new games. I'm just saying don't pretend like the Adventure games were suddenly good, cause they fucking weren't.
Honestly Sonic should just stick to 2D

...

>not buying mania
then they weren't fans in the first place, just filthy casuals who shout the ''sonic was never good'' meme.

Sonic Utopia is just an Adventure game with less control. If anything I would rather they just make another Adventure game.

I don't think open world really works for a "get to the goal" type game. Too much freedom can make a game like that far too easy.

Fuck off Konami

Rouge lost her charm when she lost her goddamn figure. She barely and I mean just barely has feminine curves because those Jap faggots like to keep Sonic Family Faggot Friendly. So that means generally featureless females. Notice how Amy's boobs are also essentially gone (they fully disappeared after Heroes).

The only purpose Sonic has these days is release a shitty game for more porn of the females, but they made them so unappealing that? Who cares.

Sonic Team needs to work on different stuff, like Puyo Puyo, Chu Chu Rocket, Rub Rabbits and so on.
Leave Sonic to someone else.

Sonic Team would just think that the only reason Mania got good scores was because it was a classic game and then go make another Sonic 4, when in truth it's just because it was made by a competent developer.

Mania Teamu should be new Sonic Teamu

Who’s gone troo far now, you rat-faced fuck

>This apparently doesn't count pre-orders, but if I'm interpreting correctly:
>Forces 24h - 4184 owners
>Mania 24h - 64,000+ owners

twitter.com/Tracker_TD/status/928397917328756736

JUST

I can't believe Forces will sell worse than Mania in the long term.
I hope it but I highly doubt it.

adventure games were good, the only issues those games have ever had were the unnecessary extra characters

honestly if they put out sanic adventure 3 with sonic, shadow, and like blaze or another go fast character as the only playable characters going back to the old adventure action stage playstyle and characters having a base homing attack, spin dash, light speed dash, and then each of them having one or two specific abilities that have a focus on keeping or controlling momentum the game would be an instant hit, it would be the botw or odyssey that sonic wants
but because 06 was such a shit flop thats not likely and instead we'll get another 5 or 6 games of boost stages + gimmick stages

maybe shadows positive response could get them to put out shadow 2 but itd probably just be edgy boost

Literally nothing wrong with boost gameplay and since when did people hate it

Apotos in unleashed blew my fuckin mind when I first played it

Here the truth, the hate for the boost was originally from people who didn't like sonic rush, then you faggots (who weren't even 10 when rush was released) jumped on the bandwagon and act as if you know what the fuck your talking about

There is nothing wrong with boost gameplay when done right

NO ADVENTURE OR BUST

>Just like how 06 killed the Adventure style of gameplay.
But Adventure style of gameplay sucks

>Mania sells more copies than Forces day 1 even after sabotaging Mania's PC release.
This is just sad at this point.

>Forces actually selling less than Mania

Is this real life?

aside from the gimmicks can you tell me whats the difference between unleashed sonic stages, generations sonic stages, and forces sonic stages?

because boost gameplay is literally turning 3d sonic into call of duty

>being this delusional

Except it's barely done right past Unleashed and Rush.

>adventure games were good, the only issues those games have ever had were the unnecessary extra characters
No.
Adventure games are bad. Bad camera, bad controls, buggy as shit, etc. The stuff around the gameplay is bad too, with really stupid stories, Adventure 1 having god awful animation and Adventure 2 having some of the worst audio work in a professional game.
Only good thing about the adventure series was the chaos

Sonic has probably at this point like 5% good games. That's 1/20.

I don't think there is even one that's absolutely amazing. Sonic Adventure 1/2 may be perceived as "good" but they're insanely flawed. Every "modern" Sonic game after them is garbage.

Why do people even try to continue to like it?

>>This apparently doesn't count pre-orders, but if I'm interpreting correctly:
>>Forces 24h - 4184 owners
>>Mania 24h - 64,000+ owners
>twitter.com/Tracker_TD/status/928397917328756736
IIRC, didn't the steam version of Mania get the lowest sales out of all of the platforms? If those are the numbers for the steam version then... wew.

You realize that the Adventure style of gameplay is basically a Mario game where you run fast? And I mean Sonic and Shadow, not the other gameplay styles. Adventure Sonic is as basic as Sonic can get in a 3D space.

I found Forces to be pretty enjoyable, and I went in expecting to be disappointed. It has its flaws, but outside of the flaws it’s a fun time. I also enjoyed the avatar maker more than I should have.

Post your OCs.

>Taxman, Stealth and Sonic 2 HD team will get the blame for Mania
>Iizuka comes up with Sonic Adventure 3 in a panic, the only thing that will get fans going
>Mania team gets fired, Mania 2 happens but it's done entirely by Sonic Team and some mobage/handheld company like Bushiroad or Renegade Kid to create the perfect 2D style
>SA3 is a success but given flack for not being original enough
>Mania 2 is a product without Taxman and Stealth

So is it Sonic 06 3? Remember that Rise of Lyric was a thing.

Yeah, the delay + denuvo shit (on top of that, Mania PC couldn't be played offline at first) really drove off a lot of people

>Take the successful formula of Sonic Generations formula
>Make it crap
What went wrong? Sonic Lost World is excused because it was a failed experiment. Sonic Boom is also excused because it was another failed experiment, a bad idea nobody asked for with shitty development progress. What's their excuse with Sonic Forces?

Sonic sells the best on consoles.

Not defending Forces but it'll sell a lot better on consoles.

Thing is, Mania is also on consoles and cheaper.

Mania also has the advantage of us old fucks who just like their 2D stuff.

I can't, I refunded that shit.

I put that I want to see a snuff film starring Sonic Team

Everyone involved with making Generations and Colors good were moved to different SEGA projects.

>Nostalgia sells more to Sonicfags
Why so surprised?

utopia's level is a tech demo and won't be open world in the final game

When crack comes out I'll just mod in all the shit without playing, boom, OC creator without paying or playing.

So how is Forces not selling considering it's also relying a lot on nostalgia?

No, literally nothing about Sonic Forces puts it anywhere near the level of bad as 06.

No one is saying that the boost gameplay is what the problem is.

The problem with Forces is that it does it all poorly and is so unappealing is hard to actually enjoy (especially compared to the actually good Sonic games).
The stages are short, buggy or both, the story has its head up its own ass, and the mechanics are butchered because they're trying to shove too much into one game with a team that's all over the place.

I can see 's point. The same thing over and over again becomes fucking boring and rpetitive, which is why I was hoping Lost World would be good while being a fresh idea. Sadly Lost World was mediocre-bad and Forces is just a fucking mess of bullshit that repeats not only the exact same mechanics while trying to shove it shitty ones but the same crappy versions of levels we've seen before too that barely warrants a 2nd playthrough if you've seen it once.

More like good games sells better than totally shitty ones.

Why does Japan take Sonic so fucking serious? They seem to have ZERO self-awareness.

Mario Odyssey is a better Sonic game than Forces.

Come on man, don’t pirate. At least get it when it’s on sale. Don’t hurt this industry more than it already has been.

blame? what would they be blamed for? saving their mediocre franchise?

their excuse is that sonic generations wasnt good because of the gameplay

it was good because of nostalgia, they actually recreated generations and added another gameplay mode but because it wasnt member berries the game its just the stale boost gameplay youve been given in every other sonic game and people finally realize it
if forces finally makes them take a turn and kill the boost gameplay then this game might be a godsend

>zero self-awareness.

Autism.

Forces' only real nostalgia pandering is classic Sonic, Mania's whole concept is nostalgia and having a literally classic Sonic game in the modern age.

Mania is relying more to nostalgia with being literally like a Sega Genesis game. How is Forces relying on nostalgia when it only appeals to a small part of the fandom that likes shitty edgy Sonic games like Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic '06?

Hey so I'm up for drawing some Sonic porn.

Any requests?