So...

So, the devs over at paradox interactive have decided that they're going to remove Warp and Wormhole travel from Stellaris an force everyone to use Hyperlanes only.

They are cutting out features that have been in the game from the start, calling it an "improvement" and the fanboys are sucking their dick for "being so brave to make changes".

They claim that hyperlanes-only makes the game more "strategic", except it doesn't. What it does, is turn the game into Sins-of-a-Solar-Empire.
Here's a fucking clue, Paradox. If I wanted to play SoaSE, I'd just go and play that instead.
One of the reasons I like Stellaris is that you can't just build chokepoints in space and then not have to think about defence.

And it's not even fucking necessary. There's already and option to play Hyperlane-only games if you want, so players who want to can, and those who don't want to don't have to. You're forcing players who want no part of your shitty changes to take it, and then your justifying it by saying "Turning the game into babby's first space RTS makes it more interesting".

Maybe if you hadn't nerfed Hyperlanes to be fucking useless in patch 1.4 then you wouldn't have people complaining how bad they are, and you wouldn't be forcing everyone to have to use it.

Fuck you, Paradox. You don't get to cut features out of a title and have people praise you for it. If my car dealer came to my house and smashed the windscreens of my car claiming "It's an improvement" I wouldn't thank him and then suck his dick for "Being so brave to make changes".

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sinsofasolarempire.wikia.com/wiki/Vasari
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It's just them being too lazy to balance everything equally. So, you'd have in depth hyperlanes with their own story quests and tech while the others are half assed.

The game isn't even that good, though. Balance is fucked and the AI is not done well AT ALL. The customization, while interesting at first, leads all to the same points in the end and really what's varied is how your race looks. The beginning of the game and end game is also terribly boring and often times you're idling waiting for something to complete or happen.

I've put a lot of hours into Stellaris. Even so I think it's an average quality game. It tries to handle demography and internal politics but doesn't do it as well as something like Victoria 2. It tries to be a 4x game but others like Master of Orion have better combat. The game slows down drastically the longer you play.

funny, never used hyperspace, it just sounds so gay compared to motherfucking wormholes or warp

This is a lazy solution to that too, less options = less chance of AI fuck ups. Apparently, all the DLC money doesn't give them enough money to figure out a better solution.

It's true, the game is basically just teleport on your enemys home world with a bigger fleet

Worse yet if you have a federation all wits different FTL drives it impossible to move together

The game is a colossal mess. I don't understand how anyone can defend it.

So make it an option to have everyone be one of the three types of FTL and balance each option. Mixed would still be in, but wouldn't be balanced. Or just leave the others as an unsupported option. There's no reason to remove them.

>turn the game into Sins-of-a-Solar-Empire

Stellaris is a shit casual game that will never be even half as good as Sins.

Also I read that you can just change the settings so there is a hyperlane between every pair systems. But why bother with Stellaris when it’s just a more casual version of Distant Worlds?

I'm fine with the change - vanilla travel tech was all boring "[x] but better" and wormholes were both vastly superior to the other travel types and stupidly tedious for everyone involved. You'd be dumb to think Paradox could actually fix that shit without gutting it the way they are now.

could i have a link?

It's actually a good change though. There are still over forms of FTL available via research.

Hyperlanes do make the map more strategic by making strategic chokepoints that can be defended.

Let me guess they're going to copy Endless Space in having hyperlanes the main form of transport but keep the hyperdrive and wormhole as lesser alternatives. Because that would be the laziest and most unimaginative solution to this mess of a system.

>implying this is the worst upcoming change
Don't you just love the tedious mine building micromanagement? Well, we've decided to add the requirement of building an outpost in EVERY system you want to expand to. Enjoy your ugly as borders!

>Hyperlanes do make the map more strategic by making strategic chokepoints that can be defended.
Strategic chokepoints in space. Think about that for a moment. Isn't it already enough that the space is limited to a 2D plane, too?

>Wars are still determined by a single battle
>Tech still means jack shit in comparison to raw numbers
Fuck these devs.

>building an outpost in EVERY system you want to expand to

Is this real? Thank fuck I dropped this shitty game

In theory it sounds like a good change. Instead of people warping wherever the fuck they want, whenever they want, there will be some actual strategy in setting up chokepoints and defenses and what not.

In practice, every war is still going to be decided by a single battle and then it will just be a slog of sieging down planets to up warscore, exactly how it is now - only this time with less mobility.

Well I read the dev diary just now to see the reaction and I can't find anything indicating they're going to do that, care to provide a link OP?

Its a few dev diaries ago

Yes, and borders are based entirely on them too. The new outposts cost an increasing amount of influence, so you need to be more picky on the systems you expand to. The side effect is weird looking borders and even more clicks for each system.

Oh fuck I found it, that's shitty

They're redoing the war goal system.

Warp was shit anyways and Wormholes have become another separate technology you can use with gates and shit.
Stop bitching about nothing.

That annoys me. I used to love playing xenophobic empires and having fuckmassive borders that strangled the life out of every empire near me.

Its pretty damn clear the stellaris devs have no fucking idea how to balance the game. Its a shame because there is genuinely a good game in there if they get their shit together.

They've redone the war goal system several times already, and it has always been the same shit afterwards. Don't get your hopes up.

>They claim that hyperlanes-only makes the game more "strategic", except it doesn't. What it does, is turn the game into Sins-of-a-Solar-Empire.
>Here's a fucking clue, Paradox. If I wanted to play SoaSE, I'd just go and play that instead.

Sins of a Solar Empire has one race that can build structures that allow them to travel outside the default space lanes.

>Phase TechnologyEdit
VasariEmpirePhaseMastery

>Phase space mastery is a specialty of the Vasari. Vasari phase mastery is incomparable, and they possess the strongest sensors in the known universe being able to detect all enemy movement across multiple star systems. The Vasari's knowledge of phase space is so vast that they can even hide their ships and orbital structures within it should it be deemed necessary. Their FTL communications systems are also very specialized allowing them to field much larger fleets than both the Advent or TEC.
>Testaments to the power of Vasari knowledge of phase space are the Kostura Cannon and Phase Stabilizer, the latter of which allows them to create their own phase lanes to increase the mobility of their fleets.

sinsofasolarempire.wikia.com/wiki/Vasari

Wait, seriously? Why would they remove that?
It was one of the more interesting parts of the game.

Wormholes were just a bit overpowered. Knock down their maximum range (when fully upgraded) and you're golden.

You can still have massive borders, it just won't be easily done until you're already bored of the current campaign. Muh balance strikes once again.

Creating your own isn't the same as not travelling in them. And sins is a much smaller scope game.

WH and Warp were both problems and both contributed to the deathstack problem.

How do you design a system which stops wormhole races defending their entire empire with 1 fleet, and just dropping it on someone else's homeworld?

Wormholes are cool, but now they're more like the bajoran wormhole where they'll connect you to distance places, some places which can't be reached without the wormhole or the late game jump drive tech. You can't fix warfare when projecting your entire fleet into a single point with no repercussions is possible.

You can probably still do that. But in a different way.

oh yea, sins also has wormholes too

>One of the reasons I like Stellaris is that you can't just build chokepoints in space and then not have to think about defence.

Because all you have to think about is "does my blob beat his blob"

If yes congratulations you've won, if not congratulations you can now run away from his blob and try and do whatever minor damage you can, which will be minimal if he's a half decent player.

It's sad. I thought Stellaris had a lot of potential, but incompetent fucking Paradox shitheads just threw it all in the trash.

I even preordered too. I thought "oh it just needs a few updates" and then they release paid DLCs that add shit that was meant to be in base game.

It is an improvement though. Hyperlanes are how you have terrain that matters. Imagine if you could teleport an EUIV army behind every fort your enemy tried to build, and you didn't have the ability to take specific provinces and just had to guess which of the provinces you are allowed to take over in war granted you control over them. It doesn't make sense having to capture a planet full of hostile aliens far into enemy territory in order to take a valuable uninhabited resource system right next to your border.

>One of the reasons I like Stellaris is that you can't just build chokepoints in space and then not have to think about defence.
You can't actually DO defence in Stellaris because a blob-fleet kills more of a nation's ships that divides its fleets to cover its borders, and when everyone's starting off against each other on equal footing, that means that it's basically a guaranteed win for whoever has more allies or surrounds the other side, meaning it's geopolitical factors that decide who wins wars, not strategy or tactics. This has to be bait or else you're just not interested in having any depth to the execution of warfare.

just make defensive buildings that stop that from happening. I can think of several stupid ways of doing that right now. with some iteration it shouldn't be a problem to arrive at one that actually works

but fuck that I guess. just removing the content so they don't have to do any work is better

Read the entire devblog you absolute nigger. This will actually make the game a bit strategic.

Except the most recent dev diary says that systems are owned by whoever owns the starbase there, so no.

>just make defensive buildings that stop that from happening. I can think of several stupid ways of doing that right now. with some iteration it shouldn't be a problem to arrive at one that actually works

Okay, so go on, what stops wormholes that isn't also a "you free lose" because it's something memey like "if you go to a system that causes your path to intersect a bubble you go to a point, or sends your ships scattering randomly.

And how does that problem solve the fact that you can defend your entire empire with 1 fleet with wormholes and warp trivially. And Hyperlanes easily.

Play the actual game, you nigger. No matter what changes are made to the FTL methods, wars are still going to be entirely decided by whoever has the larger fleet. There is absolutely no mention of any change that would impact this.

You build a random shitty starbase that has literally nothing on it.

you can take those easily, or build dozens of them rapidly (probably) with the right build.

Your space being much less traversable actually does go a long way to fixing the doomstack problem.

And they even specified they're talking about things like command limits.

That means going to war to take those non-colonized systems on your enemies fringes instead of just stealing them away with massive borders.

Revert the patch or mod it. FTL needs changes in Stellaris and there will always be crybaby's like you, and I'm glad they're ignoring you and improving the game anyways.

>Strategic chokepoints in space
This can make sense in terms of technology because you can say the gravity of a star draws the ship out of warp/hyperspace, or that the nature of hyperspace means you can only plot a stable path from a star to another star within a certain distance.

The way a xenophobic empire will get massive borders after the patch is actually going to make sense: they'll have to fight for them rather than just somehow have their claims to space taken more seriously because they refuse to engage in diplomacy with everyone else.

>Your space being much less traversable actually does go a long way to fixing the doomstack problem
No it fucking doesn't. What's the point of splitting up your fleet when you can just chase down the enemy's fleet and wipe them the fuck out in a single battle due to your superior numbers?

it isn't my job to sit here thinking about how to solve these problems for them. that's their own job. I ditched stellaris long ago so I don't care.

>ball up your fleet and take it to the north
>someone on the south attacks you
>they get to rape the shit out of your south before you can get back

>The way a xenophobic empire will get massive borders after the patch is actually going to make sense
Fuck off, I don't care about games making sense, only about them being fun. This change means that they will play exactly like every other empire in the game and that's really fucking lame.

>I can think of them right now
>okay go on
>It's not my job!

Really makes you think.

True I wasn't saying this will fix the game, but it's a step in the right direction. Those spaceports might actually help if you have a smaller fleet.

>you're the one who declared war
>you're taking the wargoals
>you're doing it faster because bigger fleet

You can ignore most fleets in your territory right now in the game, what makes you think this change will have any impact at all? The AI just fucks around and doesn't even focus on wargoals.

I actually like playing hyper lanes only and agree that it allows for more strategy. I'm fine with them balancing everything going forward based around hyper lane only.

However, I think it's really fucking shitty that they're removing the other methods from the game. Why not just leave them in as an option? Ya wormhole is op, but just turn off achievements if you think it's like cheating. Don't see why they have to remove it completely.

Space highways suck dick and for faggots who can't into strategy. My 4X game is going to blow all these MoO copying faggots away.

Have they fixed combat or can you still win late game with default corvette rush?

>my game is going to be better than all the others
Said every developer ever.

Actually, it is necessary, and you are just retarded for not realizing it.

I honestly liked Stellaris but I just cannot really see how you fix it. It's always just going to be stack v stack.

Because that's not how wargoals work now, coupled with the fact that a more direct progression into your state means the AI has a much easier time planning what to do. On top of that

>AI

No shit, beating the ai isn't hard it's never going to be because AI's are dumb as fuck. Imagine you're actually playing other people and how much they can wreck you now that you can't get back in time to intercept them nearly 100% of the time.

that was fixed in the previous patch. Now cruisers and battleships are the go to.

>map more strategic by making strategic chokepoints

no it doesn't, it's a fake illusion

hurrdurr should I spread my fleets around my empire or just move all of them to the closest single point that intercepts all enemies hurrdurr I'm such a strategic genius!!!

>tfw can finally properly make a LotGH map in next update
Can even do the Phezzan route you need their permission to use.

But that's the current state. Your fleet sits around and then you teleport it directly to wherever the enemy are.

>Imagine you're actually playing other people

I don't understand how the fuck people do this for strategy games that require many hours to complete.

Source?

by utilising basic organisational skills?

>No matter what changes are made to the FTL methods, wars are still going to be entirely decided by whoever has the larger fleet.
In EUIV the country with the army that's larger in absolute terms doesn't automatically win because attrition and the connection paths between provinces force them to break their army up into smaller parts. If France could teleport their army in one big doomstack from Barrois to Vienna and capture the province with no siege, and suffer no attrition, it would be a completely different game.

Idiot, they already have the same mechanics as everyone else, they have to colonise planets to control space just like they'll have to build starports like everyone else. If all you want from the game is to choose the side that can build the biggest blob the easiest without regard to story, you'll probably just want to switch to pacifist because it'll probably be them who get the bonuses to just building everywhere rather than taking other people's stuff in war.

Why if it necessary to completely remove the option? I agree with them basing future design and balance decisions around hyper lanes, but why take the option away? If they're too op, just disable achievements and default to not allowing them in multiplayer.

that's just going to force you into more war with the shit diplomacy the game has, and I like games where there are multiple sovereign races in the map instead of 3 giant blobs

>Because that's not how wargoals work now
That's exactly how wargoals work. You declare war for shit you can easily take while the AI tries to take half a dozen systems all on different sides of the galaxy.

>Imagine you're actually playing other people and how much they can wreck you now that you can't get back in time to intercept them nearly 100% of the time.

>he's a savescumming faggot
No wonder your opinions are so shit.

Also, how the fuck do you manage to play this shit with other people? It's so god damn slow, I would lose my mind if I had to wait for other people.

Dont you have any friends to play with every now and then user

The devs are complete fucking wacko, i've already changed my review of the game to negative, this is EA kind of retarded, who the fuck thinks removing features which make the game unique in the first place.

honestly paradox has always been shady as shit with the DLC practices and shit but fuck me this is next level rainman shit.

No, because they're changing them completely. On top of that 1. This change will make the AI not do that inherently, and 2. no, currently you can cross the galaxy in a negligible amount of time with warp or WH tech, which means you have time to actually see the enemy turn up then just go there.

>In EUIV the country with the army that's larger in absolute terms doesn't automatically win because attrition and the connection paths between provinces force them to break their army up into smaller parts. If France could teleport their army in one big doomstack from Barrois to Vienna and capture the province with no siege, and suffer no attrition, it would be a completely different game.
No shit, that's exactly what I'm saying. Teleportation or no, Stellaris is and probably always will be about moving around the biggest doomstack. So long as that stays, the combat is always going to be shit.

>Idiot, they already have the same mechanics as everyone else
Confirmed for never playing a xenophobic empire. Seriously, try it. It's fun.

That's not the issue, the issue is that you're never motivated to split your fleets.
The fleet system also needs to be revised so big fleets start getting massive penalties if you just mass them, with the cap based on the admiral.

That is part of it though. If you couldn't just do that you would have motivation to have a second at least, coupled that with the fact they're probably going to be putting command limits on admirals based on the end of the latest dev diary should do a hell of a lot to discourage doomstacking.

>This change will make the AI not do that inherently
Source? Because so long as the AI is defending they are always go to try to give out your planets to all their allies, which means they are going for planets all over the fucking place instead of a tight, easily taken cluster.

>currently the AI can go anywhere really easily
>after the patch the AI will have to go through systems to try and do that.

Also the new claims system will encourage them to be contiguous, and will make wars a lot less all out.

I can't wait for distant worlds 2

Unless its absolute early game you're going to be bordering more than one enemy in a war, which means they will try to take planets from more than one location. Stop being a retard, dude.

So hey, what about Gal Civ 3?

well too bad this isnt EU4 though and people were hoping the devs would be creative enough to balance the game around its own theme. why even make new games for fucks sake

>So long as that stays, the combat is always going to be shit.
But how does it make sense for a tiny army to beat a large army if not by using chokepoints and "terrain"?
>inb4 "I hate making sense!"
How would you get combat that isn't doomstack beats small army.

>Confirmed for never playing a xenophobic empire. Seriously, try it. It's fun.
I've mostly played xenophobic empires and have found myself going to war far less often than other empires because everything I need can be taken over by colony spam. As a pacifist I declared more wars, and the only xenophobic empires I went to war regularly with were the ones the game puts you basically on ironman mode in terms of diplomacy.

Trash in comparison to 2.

If their alliance borders you in more ways yes they'll push in more, but they won't just sit on the ass end of your space because they thought there was something there they really needed to attack.

pretty lame honestly. got it for free though

>balance the game around its own theme
What do you even mean by this in concrete terms?

IThe Crusade expansion pack fixed a lot of issues, I think it's alright now.

This. They could port the old game into a more modern engine and I'd be happy.

>AI
>AI
>AI
These type of games are played with friends only, lol

>that was fixed in the previous patch. Now cruisers and battleships are the go to.
Seriously? I might actually try out this game again.

I can live with that. I don't like it, but I can tolerate it. Now, what really matters is:

HAVE THEY FIXED SECTORS YET??
>S E C T O R S
>E
>C
>T
>O
>R
>S

Holy shit, just remembering them I get pissed!
>build nice planet
>balanced or specialized
>enough food to make a good population growth but not enough to be considered a waste
>nice mineral output
>room for growth
Then, have to sector it because ""too much planets"" bullshit
>every empty square gets a hydroponic
>lots and lots of unutilized spaces
>20+ food production
>energy waste
>mineral deficit
>"your terraforming project has been interrupted because the fucking AI decided to send robots to an incomplete planet"

>How would you get combat that isn't doomstack beats small army.
There are plenty of ways that are already represented in other PDX games. For example, in EU4 there's a combat width where only a certain number of troops can be in a battle at once depending on the terrain. Disciplined troops defending in mountainous terrain can hold off gigantic doomstacks. In Stellaris, there is no terrain, no combat width, no discipline. This upcoming patch is only going to add chokepoints but that will not effect the actual combat mechanics at all, only the action of moving fleets around.

>I've mostly played xenophobic empires and have found myself going to war far less often than other empires because everything I need can be taken over by colony spam.
That's what makes it so fun.

You people are so retarded, the game was BAD before. Like, it was BAD and NOT FUN. It would take a lot more than some balance patches to fix this shit. So now they are making huge changes to the game and all the people who have talked about how boring it is are all of a sudden acting like they've enjoyed it all along and want Paradox to balance the FTL as if it was ever in any way good. I say fuck it up, we had nothing before so maybe these changes will actually make the game fun to play, where as if they wasted all their time trying to balance all this shit it would just bloat the game and I bet it would be just as shit as it was before.

Not like it matters what I say because you people would literally be mad about whatever they announced regardless.

You can literally tick a box that says "AI can't change things I've set up"

This patch isn't going to have any effect on the core problems of the game, though. That's what people in this thread are saying if you even bothered to read it. Changing the way you move fleets around means shit since a bigger fleet will always win against a smaller fleet.

But they can still fuck up things I didn't. Like leaving the population unemployed, investing in power plants when you have a fuck huge energy surplus already, and SETTLING TERRAFORMING PROJECTS

Did you miss the way they not so subtley hinted at the fact they're adding specialised behaviour AI's for ships

>Fuck you, Paradox. You don't get to cut features out of a title and have people praise you for it. If my car dealer came to my house and smashed the windscreens of my car claiming "It's an improvement" I wouldn't thank him and then suck his dick for "Being so brave to make changes".


Blame right wing libertarian politics for allowing them to legally do that bullshit. Shit you don't even own any game technically since even for physical copies all one legally buys is a license to use the thing.

Right wing libertarian bullshit has pushed for corporations of ALL sorts to be able to do shit like that while at the same time stripping away any consumer protection that could empower faggotry nerds to actually be able to rightfully whine about that shit to them to stop.