Why did it take everyone this long to get upset by loot crate systems? TF2 has been doing this for 7 years...

Why did it take everyone this long to get upset by loot crate systems? TF2 has been doing this for 7 years. Counter strike GO has been doing it for 5. Rocket league has been doing it for years as well. Suddenly overwatch does it and they start to appear all over the place

Alot of people always hated and bitched about it, Overwatch just happens to be played by a lot more normies and so 'Gaming Journalists' finally discovered them hence more coverage.

The other games you mentioned didn't make lootboxes a core aspect of their whole longevity plan like Overwatch did, they actually relied on good gameplay to keep players in and this is most evident with Valve's games that didn't even have lootboxes before and were added years later.

I don't think they understand you don't have to buy them.

>The other games you mentioned didn't make lootboxes a core aspect of their whole longevity plan like Overwatch did,
how is it any different? overwatch has more frequent updates than TF2 ever did. TF2 and CSGO both rely on the loot boxes AND the trade market. Rocket League relies on it as well. So what if overwatch was ahead of the game and launched with it? They're all guilty of using this gambling model.

YA GOTTA OPEN UP WITH SOME SUPER GLUE

>a core aspect of their whole longevity plan like Overwatch did
What the literal and metaphorical hell is this supposed to mean, user?

How the fuck do TF2 and CSGO rely on loot boxes? They were already extremely long-lasting games before they even had boxes.
I think all gambleboxes need to fuck off but there's a clear difference between how Valve and Blizzard treat them, with Valve it's a way to feed their community market and make money out of transaction fees, with Blizzard the game itself and all events orbit around loot boxes and making the players gambling junkies craving for the next box fix.
They even lowered the competitive seasons duration because no one was playing the game once their rankings stabilized, literally no one plays it for the gameplay.

Some faggot eceleb started complaining so his fans made threads on Sup Forums and then it gained traction from there
Overwatch came out a year before the outrage

>Blizzard the game itself and all events orbit around loot boxes and making the players gambling junkies craving for the next box fix.
Find that hard to believe considering the boxes don't even give anything gameplay-altering or particularly unique like TF2's Strange Weapons. Your point seems to boil down to "Overwatch supported lootboxes from the beginning, so obviously it is a conspiracy to make a gambling game disguised as a shooter". As opposed to TF2, where the base game was altered to incorporate them and their keys after the fact.

> with Blizzard the game itself and all events orbit around loot boxes and making the players gambling junkies craving for the next box fix.
this is the same as TF2 and CSGO. players pick up items as they play, including crates, and the entire server knows what you got. It's actually far worse in those games than it is in OW. CSGO had literal gambling sites. TF2 players are encouraged to show off their loot with different rarities of the same items, such as Unusuals and the like. OW loot boxes are entirely separate from the game.
It doesn't matter that it took valve like 4 years to jump TF2 to a different model and CSGO has the same if not worse model as OW.

I've got to buy these crates.
I've got to buy these crates.
Purchase and then I close.
Purchase and then I close.
Nope, don't add to cart.

TF2 has alternatives to random loot. Overwatch does not.

Those games you mentioned were all PC exclusives. Overwatch is normie shit for consoletards.

What are coins?

this thread is now a jerma thread , post the CCC

what do you mean?

What are you talking about conspiracies? Are you an idiot?
It's a simple fact that Overwatch is one of the shallowest FPS games in existence, it's also a blizzard-confirmed fact that people barely played the game near the ending of seasons and it's also a fact that all "events" are nothing but just more gamblebox cosmetics.
The shallow gameplay combined with the huge focus on lootboxes clearly shows blizzard's intentions, they applied every single mobileshit addiction trick but in a fully-priced game.

>It's a simple fact that Overwatch is one of the shallowest FPS games in existence
its not a fact, that's an opinion. It's more or less as varied as TF2 and far more complex than CSGO.
> they applied every single mobileshit addiction trick
my gut tells me you havent actually seen the worst cancer mobile games have to offer.

I dont know what to tell you man, you seem to have a hate boner for OW for no reason. They're all using the same systems. I mean, TF2 just released a bunch of new content you have to pay for that encourages more loot shenanigans, how is that not the same as themed skins?

Things you can only get from random loot. At an extremely slow rate.
Making direct purchases from the store or direct transactions from other players.

...

so can overwatch
you get one loot crate per level you gain and you get free ones during certain events like christmas

>conspiracy
>noun [ C or U ]
>UK - /kənˈspJr.ə.si/
>US - /kənˈspJr.ə.si/
>The activity of secretly planning with other people to do something bad or illegal

>with Blizzard the game itself and all events orbit around loot boxes and making the players gambling junkies craving for the next box fix.
>making players gambling junkies is a bad thing
>Blizzard isn't openly admitting that that's what they're planning
>Therefore it's a conspiracy.

>Making direct purchases from the store or direct transactions from other players.
how is that better? it encourages a dependency on what the crates themselves contain. Creating a free market for your items is how you get people to play your game and buy keys. OW loot crates are basically only for the player himself. No one really cares what you look like.

Those games are Free to play autism simulators so no one ever cared

Retardation.

And the loot you gain is random.
Whether or not you gain coins is random.
You literally have no control over what you are able to purchase.
Are you intentionally trying to confirm your Overcuck kind as braindead?
Because you are guaranteed an item based on what you pay with the money you earn or what specific achievements you perform. The $5 it takes to by a certain item in TF2 can extend to $500 in being cheated out of it by RNG in Overwatch.

>It's more or less as varied as TF2 and far more complex than CSGO
Holy fucking shit dude you are one clueless moron, do you even understand what skill depth means? OW is the worst offender of "press buttan do thing" in any FPS ever and has a hard skill cap since there's absolutely zero technical skill involved in doing anything, characters are extremely slow and hotboxes are gigantic. Once you learn the buttons you will be just as good as anyone else mechanically speaking, only "decisions" will matter and even then the decisions are extremely shallow and usually boil down to "wait until team has ults and then use them at the same time when the enemy team is clustered together".
It's a bad joke of a game that does nothing but cater to people that don't play games.
CS is far deeper than TF2 and obviously OW and it's obvious you have no experience with shooters or games in general.

TF2 and CSGO's lootbox mechanics are nothing like OW's, they are shit too but at least they were afterthoughts.

but why does it bother you so much? using buzzwords does not make you right lmao
>waah I can't control what different color character skin I get that have no change to the gameplay at all even though I can still get it for freee

but you can acquire specific items with coins in OW. you don't actually need to spend the outrageous $500 you claim. As long as you play the game, you acquire the means to create the items you want. It's the same as TF2

>but you can acquire specific items with coins in OW.
WHICH YOU GET AT COMPLETE FUCKING RANDOM HOW FUCKING RETARDED ARE YOU??!?! YOU STUPID, FUCKING GOD DAMN IDIOT.
When you work a job you are guaranteed a wage. That guaranteed money can be spent on an item in TF2. In Overwatch, the only currency you can directly make the purchase of a specific item is NOT guaranteed and is arbitrarily withheld from the player by RNG.
You literally cannot "get" anything for free in Overwatch. You can only "get" a small chance of receiving it. You STUPID Gen Z idiots have your minds warped by raised in an anti-consumer nu-gaming industry.

In TF2 you get random crates sometimes where you'd normally receive a random weapon. You have to pay 2.49 to open a crate. So unless you're curious and whatnot, you won't be exposed to it much.
The contents of a TF2 crate is always tradeable, meaning if you get something you dislike you can sell it. If you're lucky: for a profit.

In Overwatch you HAVE to open crates. You are subjected to the gambling experience. The game is set up in a way to addict you to the act of opening a crate, which has a lot of flashy detail put into it.
If you get an item, it's permanently tethered to your account. If you get a duplicate, you are given a paltry amount of monopoly money which you can use to buy non-rare skins.

See the difference here? It's very obvious how despite them both being negative, one is clearly more anti-consumer than the other.

Because now it's happening to [game that whiners care about].

Nothing changed when we whined about TF2. I hope the people that are pissed off now enjoy nothing changing for them either.

>See the difference here?
Yeah, the difference is you're grasping at straws to make Overwatch sound a lot more sinister.
>In Overwatch you HAVE to open crates. You are subjected to the gambling experience. The game is set up in a way to addict you to the act of opening a crate, which has a lot of flashy detail put into it.
>subjected to the gambling experience
>it is set up in a way to addict you
Alright, Jack Thompson.
Also, you don't have to open them, they can just sit in the menu for eternity for all you can care.

When I played Overwatch for a few months, I would play consecutive rounds to get lootboxes, not because it was fun enough to keep playing on its own.

In TF2, I would keep playing consecutive rounds because it's fun. I didn't need another reason.

TF2 also has random drops and trading, so there's no huge incentive to open boxes. One key can net you literally every weapon with unique stats, and a very nice loadout for your favorite class. That's why nobody complains about TF2's boxes.

The problem with buying things straight up is there is inflated value, created by valve itself, for specific items. There are only a handful of specific items in the game. So you're not always guaranteed the item you want, if no one is selling it for a price you want. People are paying 5 to 500 dollars for one item just because there are fewer of them than others. It's directly based on what other players don't have. it's unhealthy.
in OW, there is no inflated value. There are 4 rarities of items and items are only as valuable as these rarities indicate, and only if you like the way they look. You don't even have to play that much to work towards items you want, you acquire enough coins to get any legendary by like level 30. And if you're smart, you save up for special events because the more you play, the more coins you get from every generic box because of duplicates.
I don't know how inflated value based on rarity is somehow better than OW just because you can spend $50 on a hat.

It sounds like you're just really clueless about simple skinner box mechanics.

Are you really going to be this dumb and hardheaded about this? I can tell you've never set foot inside a publisher's offices before.

sounds like a personal problem

>TF2 has been doing this for 7 years
you can craft,buy and get itens by random drops


what excuse new games have for not having a similar trading/drop system?

in OW you don't have to open crates.
In TF2, you HAVE to see the loot you pick up. It's right in your face. If you read the chat dialogue, you also see other players items
How is that not more intrusive?

And like user mentioned, I suppose the fact that in TF2 any special items you uncrate are announced serverwide is completely harmless and not at all an attempt at luring your innocent mind to the notion that opening crates is the cool thing to do with the kids nowdays.

It sure is, the fact that they give you locked boxes is also a tactic to encourage you to buy keys.
What is your point? I don't defend TF2's lootboxes but at least I realize they are less damaging to the game's actual gameplay compared to OW's lootboxes.

Oh I forgot about those keyless crates from the Jungle Campaign.

I haven't seen somebody unbox a crate in a server in a long time. If anything, they just serve as a reminder that all you'll get is trash worth $1 at most.

>to the game's actual gameplay compared to OW's lootboxes.
but OW boxes dont impact game play at all

Yes there is: the value inflated by RNG. As I said, you can spend hundreds on loot boxes and still not get the item you want, thus making it essentially a hundred+ dollar item. To get it for "free" you have to grind levels, and your example of getting what you want within 30 of them is merely an anecdotal one that can be contrasted by those who never saw theirs after hundreds.
Think of how upset people get about how modern gaming involves purchasing a corporately-controlled service to play a game rather than the game itself. Imagine if instead of game on Steam costing $60 to directly purchase and then dropping down to $15 during sales, you spent an arbitrary amount of money for the random chance of receiving that game. And because the odds weren't in your favor you ended up spending over $300 in total to get it rather than during your first three $5 transactions. Because the alternative was completing Ride to Hell: Retribution from beginning to end at least twelve times in a row with each completion giving you a very small chance of obtaining the game.
That is the Overwatch system you are defending.

Yes they do and this was already explained in the thread. Do you have amnesia or do you do just choose to ignore completely valid analyses on the game's mechanics because they don't fit your preconceptions?

i dont know do you? because OW boxes come at you the same exact way. So if you want to say OW boxes impact gameplay, that's fine, but either way it's no different from the way TF2 does it

>paying $100 for one skin
>playing the game is grinding
you are delusional.

My point is really just that I don't agree that a game with built-in cosmetic content lootbox support from release is inherently more damaging for the gameplay than a game that was originally NOT supposed to have such content, only for the devs to add that system later down the line, which then necessarily created a demand for items to fill said lootboxed with.
Also that you overlooked things in TF2 that could be reasonably traced back to said lootboxes if we are to talk about creating a lootbox addiction, while in Overwatch's case going after relatively minor things like the opening animation.

Also, the fact that I see other anons trying to tie the problem of lootboxes to the problem of gameplay depth in Overwatch just confuses me, when the two are completely separate things and every single attempt to bind the two together just comes off as conspiratorial.

You clearly never played TF2 if you think boxes work the same as in OW.
As it was already explained to you in this thread, OW and all events orbit around lootboxes, they are propped up as the main incentive to play the game.

>OW loot boxes are entirely separate from the game.
They most certainly are not, you get one for every level up and they show you every unlock you don't have when you go to look at the ones you do. Hell most events are a single new game mode or something and a bunch of limited time skins, they were very deliberately designed and are a huge part of the game.

>Overwatch forces you into a position where this can very likely be the case
>but the one criticizing Overwatch is delusional
The absolute STATE of OWIDF.

>how is that better?
other than giving you the option to make money off the game if you're smart enough? it also allows you to get a specific item you want as opposed to overwatch where outside of gathering up coins that you collect at an extremely slow rate you will never be sure you will get the item you actually want.

>As it was already explained to you in this thread, OW and all events orbit around lootboxes, they are propped up as the main incentive to play the game.
One user's empty claim does not constitute an explanation. If anything, lootboxes are propped up as incentives to play gamemodes that are not quickplay, that's why you can get them as reward for trying out arcade modes.

Overwatch's shallowness is tied to lootboxes because it would simply be dead without lootboxes since the gameplay itself is not designed to be deep.
That's how Blizzard designed the game, they made the gameplay easy for mass appeal and relied on lootboxes and lootbox events for the longevity since the gameplay doesn't provide that, it's very similar to how mobile games work.

you can also not spend money on loot boxes if you're smart enough.

CHEETOS

>Overwatch's shallowness is tied to lootboxes because it would simply be dead without lootboxes since the gameplay itself is not designed to be deep.
this is an empty claim. Are you seriously suggesting people play OW to open loot boxes rather than to play the game itself? are you really that detached from reality?
>That's how Blizzard designed the game
the fact that you make up motivations for blizzard is what causes some anons to say you sound like a conspiracy theorist.
I think its time to stop drinking the Sup Forums coolaid.

you wanna explain to me how you outsmart an rng system?

literally don't throw money at it. Same thing you do with CSGO and TF2.

Yes that's exactly what I'm suggesting, that and seasonal ranks which are just another form of operant conditioning.
It was also already explained how OW's gameplay is shallow here. You clearly just have no idea of what you're talking about and are just offended that someone is criticizing your favorite game, but facts are facts and you haven't provided any counter arguments showing that OW is not a shallow game that relies on lootboxes.

I dont even play OW anymore. I stopped afrer the first season. sounds like you're in that boat for TF2 because you want it to be different from normie flavor of the month. Too bad it's not.

that's not outsmarting the system you dunce, if you're smart in tf2 or CS you can actually make money or trade up to higher items or an item you actually want.

This.
>I Don't Understand How Capitalism Works and Have Only the Most Basic and Surface-Level Undestanding of the Video Game Medium and Industry: The Post: The Game: The Movie: The Cinematic Experience Movie Game Part 2: Rise of the Return of the Revenge of the Reckoning Electric Boogaloo

> if you're smart in tf2 or CS you can actually make money or trade up to higher items or an item you actually want.
so you want me to play a meta game on top of the actual game? How much time am I meant to devote to not actually playing the game? at least with rocket league and OW, you just play the game and get rewarded.

I don't play OW anymore and stopped playing TF2 years ago, I don't see how that's even remotely relevant to this discussion. If you aren't interested in discussing then why are you even replying?

>I don't see how that's even remotely relevant to this discussion.
then why bring it up

>i use meme arrows to argue
nice. let me try
>I'm so bad at video games that I need to create a conspiracy that makes me a victim of some master mind match making system that pairs me with bad people, but I'm definitely not one of those bad people it's everyone else being bad around me
epic

>Delusion: A tale of one user who believes he is Jeff Goldblum in Independence Day and single-handedly cracked the code behind the alien signal while the rest of the world continued to stare at it in bewilderment
>Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry Series

well they have to keep you hooked somehow when their gameplay is ankle deep.

Wha? You did. I just replied since it was apparently important to you for some reason, implying that I'm making completely valid criticism about the game because I'm a "contrarian" and honestly that's a fucking pathetic excuse of an argument.
Stop trying to defend the indefensible, you're just a complete ignorant.

Yes, the one who has been playing multiplayer shooters since 1997 is the one that sucks, obviously.

It doesn't take a mastermind to figure that if a company has the opportunity to do something that will make them more money, they will do it.

>i've been playing shooters for 20 years! other players have definitely not been playing that long! And there's no way I'm bad, after all i've been playing for so long
you might just be bad at shooters, man. There are guys that play beer league hockey their entire lives, but wouldnt be able to take an 18 year old NHL super star

>games i dont like are shallow

With the exception of the fact that you can buy weapons (which can be found via random drops), TF2's system is exactly the same as Overwatch. Furthermore, people were throwing hissyfits about TF2's system since it was implemented, but it wasn't a core aspect of the game like it is with a lot of upcoming releases that feature the system.

You are pathetic, stop posting.

so this is what it comes down to. You never go out of gold and you're salty about it, so you try to comfort yourself

Sup Forums is not the center of the internet you delusional fuck. Nobody gives a shit about threads here.

>csgo is much deeper than tf2
To be fair you need very high iq to camp the corridors and press m1 when an enemy comes

>he thinks rank is relevant to individual skill
You literally cannot climb on your own accord. Because rank is based entirely on team win/loss binaries, the only way to climb is to strictly follow the meta and strictly play with a strict group of people who follow it as strictly as possible. The fact that the fastest climbers are Mercy mains should make my point ironclad.

Keep digging your grave, Jeff.