ITT: examples of terrible game design

ITT: examples of terrible game design
>can fast travel to any of the cities as soon as you leave the starting dungeon

I mean, I don't want to walk there, the terrain looks like it was made in unity.

that's good game design because you can simply choose not to use it on your first playthrough, and use it as a kind of alternate start on subsequent games.

As soon as you leave he starting dungeon you've seen everything there is to for scenery.

>medium to large skill tree
>92% of the skills are passive that give incremental upgrades to stats

>play open world game
>don't want to walk to cities and villages

Nothing pisses me off more than people who abuse fast travel in open world games

That entire game in a nutshell

>In order to maximize stats, spend most of your in-game time training skills that aren't your major skills so you avoid leveling up too quickly
>If you don't maximize stats you grow weaker as you level because literally everyone else from the random wolves in the forest to random bandits in the street will grow stronger
>after leveling up a certain point trolls will magically go extinct and get replaced by minotaurs
>bandits will also run around in supposedly rare glass armor, marauders somehow gained access to daedric armor as well
>have all of the quest rewards tied to your level, so that ultra cool artifact you got at level 2 is now useless later on
>intro takes forever and can't be skipped
>everyone will suddenly go apeshit if you steal a small slice of bread and the guards will want your blood
>main quest where you're not even really the hero, it's martin who makes all the important decisions and you're basically his sidekick, also there's supposedly an oblivion invasion going on but the entire world is basically unaffected, most people don't seem to give a shit outside of that one attack on kvatch
>oblivion gates are boring and tedious and no one likes them

What if...you've already been to all those cities before, that's why you can fast travel to them.

>open world game
>quests don't tell you where to go so you can find the objective yourself by looking at landmarks and following directions, they just say the objective and add a marker exactly where you need to go on the map, making the quest impossible to complete if you have markers turned off

Fuck developers who do this

>It's good game design because they made the overworld so shitty you don't want to travel manually at all, so fast travel lets you skip it!

at least post the modern skill tree

What is Daggerfall?

>Nothing pisses me off more than people who abuse fast travel in open world games
Sorry.

sphere grid. PoE still use Materia too?

I like the way Morrowind did fast travel, in that they made it an actual mechanic.

>Nothing pisses me off more than people who abuse fast travel in open world games
Why? Do you actually enjoy spending 10+ minutes walking to a taxi each and every time you need to go anywhere, particularly when all you need to do is dump items? Can you imagine how long it would take to carry the 37 gold bars in New Vegas from the DLC entrance to your house in Novac unless you did the OWB DLC? That's like a minimum of one hour of walking or 10 minutes of inventory management and fast travel.

So much this. In games like Skyrim or Witcher 3, I almost always went about my quests on foot or on horseback, to give myself the opportunity to actually experience the world rather than just jumping from place to place, it's more immersive this way.

>>or 10 minutes of inventory management and fast travel.
>he didn't take Long Haul

Wwwwwhhhuuutttt.....

.....wewhhhuuuttttt

>Wasting a perk slot that could be used on literally anything else to boost your damage.
I can count on my hand the number of times Long Haul would have been useful in my seven playthroughs and they all involve the golden bars.

yeah, this totally didnt stop me from adventuring on my own. it's not the games fault for giving you the options to play how you want.

>"people who ABUSE fast travel"

>can fast travel if you want
>can not fast travel if you want

What exactly is the fucking problem with this? I can understand telling people saying all games should be insanely easy in order to be accessible to fuck off but we aren't talking about meaningful gameplay here, we are talking about walking. Allowing fast travel to me is akin to allowing skipping the cutscenes, if you don't want to sit through the filler you don't have to.

Using a mod that wipes the map for you first time you play really improves the game a LOT.

The map is supposed to be empty until you find the important places. By marking the cities on the map from the get-go, it kills the feeling of awe one would have felt upon reaching a new city after exploring the wilderness.

>taking perks to increase damage instead of for roleplaying/character reasons
I bet you don't even Gunslinger/Quick Draw/Cowboy/Rapid Reload

Really, it's hardly necessary to minmax for damage with perks, and personally I found Long Haul one of the most useful utility perks in the game. Especially if you've got Strong Back and Pack Rat, or you do a lot of repairing - it lets you take essentially as much loot as you want back to your stash at once, rather than making multiple trips.
It's also really useful for going shopping.

The game is designed with fast travel and markers in mind and without those it's impossible to find anything. To get rid of it, you'd need to implement massive quest overhauls that add new lines of dialogue to all npc's which contain directions.

How is that bad? It's optional and the player is missing out by not immediately exploring on their way between locations.

Why? It's fair to assume the player character lived in Cyrodiil so they should know where all the cities in the province are. Especially so considering they seem to have a fucking map of the place.

And the golden bars aren't even necessary because by the time you hit the recommended level to start Dead Money you've already got enough cash to buy a top-tier armor, helmet, and weapon, and then Dead Money throws even more cash at you not even counting the gold.

>Really, it's hardly necessary to minmax for damage with perks,
I do it anyway, I minmax in all games unintentionally, I just can't bare to pass up damage for utility. I'd rather take the Survival perks to be perfectly honest and I usually do. Like I said I usually have more than enough space, and it's just one fast travel away to get back anyway and loot everything again. On normal runs you tend to have around 170ish weight, and on Project Nevada runs it's like 120 unless you go mental.

the entrance is right outside nelson though, which has a relatively short road leading directly into novac. that wouldn't take an hour. i walked over-encumbered from crescent canyon to primm once, it took about 10 minutes. i'm assuming that's about half the distance. you don't need all those bars anyway, it's not like money is hard to come by.

It's called a PASSIVE tree for a reason you retards.

>Selling the golden bars instead of hoarding them.
>Nor hoarding unique and special items in general.
You're playing these games wrong, you sell stuff you can get infinitely, not stuff that's one time only.

Morrowind's fast travel was basically the equivalent of taking a bus. I mean, I'm okay with that, but let's not put lipstick on a pig here.

It was still more than just clicking on a spot and required a modicum of thought, especially if you used divine intervention/almsivi.

True, but it at least fit the theme and setting. You had silt striders and gondoliers to take you around, but there was also teleportation between mages guilds, as well as the intervention and recalls which came in scrolls, potions, enchantments and spells.

The cities would still be on the map even if you couldn't fast travel to them at the start.

>I do it anyway, I minmax in all games unintentionally,
That's fair enough, user. I used to minmax everything out of habit, but lately there are some games where I've started to enjoy making character builds around my 'ideal' concept instead. I like the survival perks too and I usually take them, it's a shame because I just don't have enough perk choices to take all the ones I want in a single playthrough (I think I'm two or three over).

I don't mind having to make multiple trips for loot, but I really notice the difference once I've unlocked Long Haul - it's nice to be able to stash everything you want in one place and take it back in one trip, rather than have to make multiple ones, and it makes hitting up merchants a lot easier as well because you can do a circuit rather than have to go back and forth.

You act as if Oblivion was the first game to have fast travel, and that Morrowind didn't. Boy do I love those mark/recall spells and scrolls that allows even MORE fast travel then in Oblivion, and all those spells and scrolls for teleporting to the nearest temple. Let's not forget the Silt Striders and ships that transport you to all the cities.

>intro takes forever and can't be skipped
You can make a save at the end of the intro and start there on future playthroughs. The game lets you change everything about your character when you activate the door that takes you out of the sewers.

Want me to not abuse fast travel? Make walking there worth my time, because it almost never is.

>required a modicum of thought
More like "required a high tolerance for tedium". Even the most efficient use of the fast travel systems usually still left you with a lot of walking to do.

>directions
If an NPC can give you directions, then they know where the place is, so why can't they just mark it on a map?

Don't forget
>enemies keep leveling forever long after you max out your damage cap

Oblivion is the only rpg that I know about where leveling actually lowers your relative power past certain point and it's not even intended mechanic.

>92% of the skills are passive that give incremental upgrades to stats

I thought I was the only one who hated that shit. How hard would be make skills that actually change how you play the game to prevent it from getting stale? No, you're getting plus 8% damage on ranged attacks or some shit. I keep that developers should look into /tg/ stuff instead basing their systems on vague recollection of D&D and cRPGs they played in high school.

Didn't Bethesda keep the same system in Skyrim?

in poe you move througj the tree to bigger and more complex skills that change the way your character works in a lot of ways, good and bad

Hardly. Most enemies have a cap. Bandit Chiefs cap at 30 somthing, Vampire Lords cap at 50 something. When you first enter a dungeon it's set to that level permanently so if you enter it later it will be easier. Some boss enemies have a set level, like Dragon Priests will always be level 50. Enemies without a level cap or whose cap goes beyond what a player will get to, like Miraak capping at 150, are the exception. Trolls and wolves don't get replaced by different enemies any more, just stronger versions of themselves who cap out early.

They also fixed the issue of bandits wearing top-tier armor. No bandit ever wears anything better than steel plate, and even that is restricted to bosses.