Why Sup Forums regards this game as "Casul's RPG"?

Why Sup Forums regards this game as "Casul's RPG"?

Minimal handholding,
Easy as fuck to overlevel with useless skills and perks,
Bullshit difficulty spikes,
Game mechanics often obscure,

Isn't it the opposite of "casual"?

Have you touched an actual RPG?

its considered casual because most of the people that play it are casual gamers.

>Isn't it the opposite of "casual"?
Nope.

>bullshit difficulty spikes
When and where?

I'm confused. I never thought this game was regarded as casual. Casual is stuff like Candy Crush or Flappy Bird.

I'm not even sure about that. I always got the impression that most people who played it were people who usually played a lot of games.

Its not an RPG.
Only way to roleplay in this game is to actively avoid quests.

>When and where?

High Hrothgar troll for starters. If you're doing the just the main quest line you'll be around lvl 5 with Iron/Steel weapons when you reach him, and he'll mope the floor with you.

>A single scripted encounter
You can esily avoid him, just run past him you fucking goof.

>Minimal handholding
Have you ever played any other game in your life?

This is where the part about it being a casual game comes to play. You can avoid the main story, random quest, etc and do whatever and come back at anytime. There's no sense of urgency or requirement to do the main story when you can do almost anything else and be a stronger player.

I want to refute the handholding part because just like many games today, your quest markers are always visible. However you could chalk that up to modern gaming conveniences since its sort of standard now.

Have you played Skyrim?

You can actually walk around him. I know I missed him the first two times I did that quest after I wondered off the stone path.

Yes, it's extremely handholdy for an RPG.

>Minimal handholding
Quest markers alone already invalidate your point.
>Easy as fuck to overlevel with useless skills and perks
Doesn't matter at all because the game's completely broken and the combat is pathetic, like all TES, if it were like Daggerfall/Morrowind it would be a nuisance, yes, but Skyrim is so piss easy to break it's embarassing.
>Bullshit difficulty spikes
?
>Game mechanics often obscure
You must be a brainlet if you think Skyrim has any obscure mechanic, or even any that actually matters.

Anyway, Skyrim is hardly even a RPG to begin with.
>There's no sense of urgency or requirement to do the main story when you can do almost anything else and be a stronger player.
That doesn't have anything to do with it being a casual game, you can have a game like that and still have a fairly deep and challenging experience, the problem with Skyrim is the trash design for everything, combat, quests, character building, you name it.
Earlier TES games at least could mask the shitty combat with some nice quests or some crazy shit you could do in terms of character builidng, Skyrim doesn't even have that.

>Why Sup Forums regards this game as "Casul's RPG"?
This is news to me.

It's not an RPG at all.

Just let Obsidian ghost develop all Bethesds' open world RPGs, atl east they got it right

>You must be a brainlet if you think Skyrim has any obscure mechanic

If you never played a TES game you're not going to know that enemies level with you,
that location's enemy level is set the first time you visit,
Some unique items are leveled and if you get them early they're going to suck

Because it's Western and it was popular.

because they removed attributes and the distinction between major/misc skills. picking perks isn't building a character, that's the most barebones form of role playing you can possibly get.

That sounds less like a mechanic and more like terrible game design.

>a five minute tutorial which shows you the basics of everything
>some tooltips you can turn off later
It's not DF or anything but come the fuck on.

There are fucking floating markers pointing at exactly where you need to go at all times and there's zero decision-making in the game, that's the definition of handholding.

Pretty good bait, I didn't think anybody would take it.

whole new user here, not only is it terrible game design, it's also a moot fucking point because you can generally make better items in the game after just a scant hour or two of gameplay than you would be able to find for the next 20 levels.

In other game I'd be against it, but Skyrim is just too open and big to constantly deal with 20+ quests in your journal without any markers.

That's part and parcel of having a sandbox.

There are no open world games without quest markers and your second point is entirely unrelated.

Nobody argues that it isn't terrible, but it exists and no one tells you it does, meaning it's very easy to screw up. Game for casuals they said...

Morrowind, a game of the same fucking series did exactly that, what is your point?

You ignored absolutely everything else I put into that post, I said within an hour of gameplay you can have already broken the game beyond belief from casual smithing.

>Skyrim is just too open and big to constantly deal with 20+ quests in your journal without any markers
What did he meme by this?
Ever heard of quest objective descriptions? The default descriptions are so fucking bad since the markers pull the player around by the nose, there's a mod that fixes that though and makes them actually descriptive and you can play without markers then.

>Game tells you where to go and what to do at every point, so much that you can skip quest dialogue, not read the entry, walk through the dungeon and get the item you need without having an inkling of an idea of what it is, what it's for, or even who it's for
>Not handholding

Are you retarded?

Morrowind is smaller than Skyrim, it seems bigger because you start out walking slower. Many quests were a pain in the ass because the quest directions were outdated or inaccurate. Did you also know that quest markers can be turned off? There are also mods who disable them by default.

>Did you also know that quest markers can be turned off? There are also mods who disable them by default.
It's absolutely impossible to play Skyrim without quest markers unless you mod the descriptions too, see .

Also calling Morrowind a "pain in the ass" just proves how babied you are by Skyrim.

>First time in
>Go to level up smithing cause it's always a good idea
>Realize I get basically the same xp from making a dagger as full plate
>realize I can sell a dagger for more than the price of what it costs to buy ore
>Make basically infinite money in two hours, max out smithing
>Doesn't matter because there isn't anything to spend your money on that matters in the first place

>Minimal handholding,
This is just plain wrong.

>Easy as fuck to overlevel with useless skills and perks,
>Bullshit difficulty spikes,
>Game mechanics often obscure,
These are simply the result of bad design.

That system is arbitrary and not comparable because there's next to no voice acting in Morrowind so quest creation is way easier than in fully voiced games. And please don't tell me you think that Morrowind's quests were much more than "go to X talk to Y slay monsters in den Z"

Yeah, there's also that ez pz quest dragon you fight that you can go get full dragon bone armor of your choice after you spend about 2 hours doing that. In addition if you used your infinite money you could have maxed enchanting as well. Pretty much make everything in the game trivial and pointless in about three hours of gameplay.

As someone who has clocked over 1000 hours into unmodded Morrowind since I was 14 I can only say you are utterly blinded by nostalgia and only hate on Skyrim because it was popular. You are a contrarian pseudo-hipster defending a system which was only good in one aspect, barely giving you good directions while you turn a blind eye on how utterly bad it was executed most of the times.

Well they changed it about smithing.

t. never played Skyrim past the couple patches or love repeating memes on Sup Forums
Leveling smithing past 1.14 I think turns into a crawl past level 50 and enchanting is prolly useless unless you invest more perk points into it than you can gain by levelling up.

Morrowind quest descriptions weren't great but Skyrim is absolutely abysmal, they often only tell you what you need to kill and nothing else, not even the name of the cave or the general location.
That's a symptom of the game being designed around quest markers and it's just bad design.

>Game so shittily thought out it required 14 patches so you couldn't make infinite money selling daggers the minute you get to the first city
>So buggy it was literally unplayable for a while after launch
>With combat so basic it's the exact same at levels 1-90
>With straight line dungeons
>Quests so slapped on you don't need to read anything you just fast travel to the waypoint, kill the draugr, and fast travel back
>Epic dragon combat so intense you stand there and face tank them or die immediately

>10/10s all around gotyay from every website

You need 13 Dragon Scales and 6 Dragon Bones for the full set plus at least 6 perk points and Smithing skill of 100 (even before they patched Smithing that were a few hundred iron daggers) so let's say you get 2-3 scales per dragon and 1-2 bones you have to kill around 5 dragons to make the set. At the beginning there's one dragon when you're half an hour or an hour into the game and your next one is most likely another hour away. Your post is plain bullshit.

You're playing a Bethesda game, remember? Considering that Morrowind has one of the easiest and biggest loops in my video game knowledge you retards could've at least tried restraining yourself from the smithing loop. There's a smithing loop in Gothic too and a fucking beer loop in Risen.

Games with such a big world like Skyrim tend to have shit like that, it's pretty normal. I'm sorry Todd didn't go through user's little faggy wishlist.

>Implying f3/4 don't suck
>Implying Oblivion doesn't suck
>Implying risen doesn't suck

Morrowind gets a pass on a lot of that shit because it came out fifteen fucking years ago.

The key difference between all these games is that no one sucks off risens shit calling it the second coming of Jesus, will never be topped, named their fucking kids after it bullshit that Skyrim gets. I could see normies getting fooled on the initial hype but goddamn it's been six years and even here on Sup Forums you chucklefucks can't stop playing it

>Games with such a big world like Skyrim tend to have shit like that, it's pretty normal.
No it's not normal and quest descriptions being worse because the world is bigger is a terrible excuse since there are several mods that fix them and you would expect them to be better if quests are harder to find, not the opposite.
Quest markers fucked up the game.

Name some games with the amount of quests like in Skyrim, around as many locations and named NPCs and a huge open world.
It's just convenience because next to nobody gives two fucks about quest design on such a huge scale. Witcher 3 comes to mind but also had quest markers and most of the quests in the game were either treasure quests or monster hunts (slightly bigger mobs with way bigger healthbars)

Two wrongs don't make a right, Skyrim holds your hand and that's all there is to it and thinking otherwise is utterly moronic.
You might not care about actually decent game design but other people do.

Skyrim came out in 2011, every developer had 6 years to make a Bethesda-like game but nobody did despite the success of Skyrim and the cries for better everything. Please enlighten me why nobody ever tried making a better open world RPG.

You flaming retard might as well call every linear game handholding because you don't have a choice how to progress and there are features that tell you where to go. The game telling you objectives is handholding, you should be able to figure shit out by yourself.

To be fair, radiant quest system can place a quest in some dungeon with pretty high minimum level, my first quest was at level 7 in falmer cave, with these heavy biting bugs and in the end there was a dwemer centurion.

Linearity is irrelevant to the difficulty of finding or beating your objective, there are linear games that hold your hand just like Skyrim with gigantic markers telling you exactly what to do, and then there are also linear games that don't hold your hand and force you to pay attention to the environment.
It's not a difficult concept to understand and if you honestly think Skyrim doesn't hold your hand then you have zero understanding of game design and shouldn't be throwing around stupid statements like in the OP.

Bait harder

Casual or not it's fucking shit

>There are no open world games without quest markers

cmon user don't be this retarded

yeah morrowind's quests are all really basic but the writing at least makes them bearable. the entire mainquest is nothing but cross-country treks to talk to people about books.

Quest markers have nothing to do with the difficulty of beating the game, just with the difficulty of finding where you need to be to beat the game. It is out of necessity due to the sheer scale of the world. I fail to understand why you dismiss a game as handholding when this and fast travel has been established for more than a decade now.

Do you think you look smart be not being able to form a serious rebuttal?

>argumentum ad lapidem
Why did you shy away from actually proving me wrong?

Because it's popular and Sup Forums hates everything that is popular regardless of what it is

>It is out of necessity due to the sheer scale of the world.
No it's not necessity, insisting on repeating this false statement won't suddenly make it true. There are many RPGs without quest markers that work just fine thanks to better descriptions and a better designed world, and even Skyrim itself has mods that make it playable without quest markers by adding better quest descriptions.

Skyrim is a bad game, get over it.

>skyrim doesn't hold your hand
>actually yes it does
>b-but it's "necessary"!
??

not him but you must not play many games if you've never played a single open world game without quest markers. it also explains why you're defending skyrim, since it's most likely the only rpg you've ever played

>still no examples where it's done different or better

Would you care giving me some examples? All the other anons seems to be at a loss of words.

>stock up on potions
>win game

i know potions were rare as fuck in daggerfall, and morrowind would only let you drink so many before a cool down...

but oblivion (i think) and skyrim really doubled down on the "drink potions and win" schtick and ruins any difficulty the game could bring beyond sponges and ridiculous damage

skyrim's 'difficulty' is just mobs getting stronger. i would consider the game casual because there aren't any complicated mechanics or difficult choices in the game, on top of the fact that none of your choices matter, like the race you pick or the factions you join (outside of the civil war progress). I had fun with skyrim but nowhere near as much fun as I had with oblivion or morrowind. progression in the game is also very fast, most guild quests start their 'you're the chosen one' arc almost immediately with hardly any 'new guy' missions beforehand

>morrowind would only let you drink so many before a cool down

that was oblivion. in morrowind health potions are incredibly overpowered, mostly because they throw marshmerrow and saltrice at you whenever they can. hell, along the entire eastern coast those plants grow right next to eachother, and in the grazelands wickwheat is just as common.

>Serious rebuttal

I don't need a serious rebuttal when your premise is wrong

>Better open world game than Skyrim

Implies that it's a good game. It's boring casualized garbage.

It didnt even function properly in oblivion. If you just closed the inventory menu and opened it back up you could drink more potions until the notification popped up again.

Yet you can't be arsed to name better ones.

Breath of the wild is some magnitude larger than Skyrim and also doesn't have quest markers.

>reddit spacing

Every open world game is better.
All of them. Except fallout four, I guess.

yeah but at least the ingredients for health potions in oblivion took a modicum of effort to collect.

It's very very shallow.

Your choices don't mean much.
Perks don't offer very many styles of play.
Races are barely differentiated from one another in terms of stats.
The main story is weak, short and basic.
The basic gameplay loop is Get quest -> Go through linear dungeon to retrieve quest item -> return to quest giver. Rinse and repeat for the entire run time.
The most common thing you will fight in Skyrim are Draugr and Bandits, neither of which become more interesting as time goes on.

It also has way less quests and content than Skyrim.

It also has a similar amount of tedious, cookie cutter horse shit like shrines, camps, and a steaming pile of a story.

Skyrim is nothing. The Witcher 3 is the one and only true "casul RPG" experience.

Automated autolock combat that requires only 2-3 buttons to win.
Using the shieldspell is the only strategy you need.
Clues and waypoints get shown with big glowing tracks.
Pre-written character without customizing.
Overly simple leveling system that doesn't even offer the slightest form of creativity and freedom.
In essence basicly just a action game disguised as a RPG.

10/10, one of the deepest RPG's ever.

Was this your whole argument? What a waste.

Eh...
At least combat changes slightly as you level, not just swing sword right, swing sword left

>trying to fight an enemy you don't have to fight at a low level is a difficulty spike

I thought witcher has harder combat.

This fucking goal post move jesus christ.

You have a dodge button, Igni and a shield spell.
It isn't difficult.

What am I supposed to even be proving? Not half the people you're linking.
Skyrim is fucking awful and I go out of my way to talk shit about it.
It's fucking easy as fuck. About as hard as leveling in wow these days. Same kind of quest system too. You don't even get new shit as you level up


Would rather watch paint dry.

Is that supposed to be some postironic shitposting?

That fucking retard who doesn't know what "moving a goalpost" means. The point was it worked poorly in Morrowind. It only gets a pass because it came out in 2002.

hit, hit, dodge, hit, hit, shieldspell, dodge, hit, hit, dodge, REPEAT

Not rocket sience brah

you said
>There are no open world games without quest markers and your second point is entirely unrelated.
then user stated that morrowind did exactly that, and you just started saying how it was bad.

that is how 'moving goalposts' works.

>Only gets a pass because it came out before Halo 2, 4 years before the PS3, eight months after the game cube came out, two years after starcraft, etc

No fucking shit it gets a pass it's from the goddamn Stone age

It's a fun game and pretty good for sure. But don't pretend to be a hardcore motherfucker for playing Skyrim on Normal difficulty senpai

Daggerfall>Morrowind>Skyrim>Oblivion

I can't wrap my mind about idea of randomly generated dungeons being good.

>So buggy it was literally unplayable for a while after launch

Played it for two weeks solid after launch on 360. Literally eat, sleep, Skyrim for two weeks. Only encountered two game ending bugs. Both were easily avoided by reloading a save and redoing the quest that bugged. You're full of shit and probably didn't even play the game on launch.

Of course, the classic Old > New horseshit comes up.

You are out of your mind if you think Daggerfall is fucking acceptable.

>Old>New
>When I put skyrim above oblivion nor mentioned arena
Daggerfall is fucking fantastic, anyone who disagrees hasn't given it the time it deserves, ive never played an RPG that gave you so much freedom

Except it literally is you braindead Skyrimfag, as everyone in this thread has explained multiple times.

Daggerfall is something else entirely, you can't really compare it to the crafted worlds of the other games. Daggerfall is a fine RPG but the ranomdly generated dungeons and copy paste towns are shit.