Meta Gear 2

“No one is invalidated, but nobody is right.”
What did he mean by this?

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MGS2 predicted social media and the government surveillance of it

that line describes the internet pretty well in general

mgs2 came out 2001, i would hardly say it predicted anything about the internet. it was already happening

MGS3>MGS2

In 2001 the internet wasn't shit all it had was google and newgrounds

He's talking about relativism.

track4.mixtape.moe/bsuaza.webm

Confirmation bias. Your beliefs are always right and anyone who disagrees is a shill/sjw/poltard/feminist/misogynist. Not even natural selection can happen here. Conflicting truths existing at the same time with no one being proven right or wrong.

The S3 plan doesn't stand for "Solid Snake Simulation". It stands for "Selection for Societal Sanity".

>what was usenet

>listening to the AI

no thanks

It's talking about social media circlejerks where no one steps on anyone else's toes but also no one ever meaningfully discusses anything and everyone ends up living in their own deluded bubble where they think they're right no matter what.

So this is what "comfy" threads are?

No, It's essentially Tumblr and all those safe space people but mainstream/on a bigger scale

>Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum.
>They stay inside their little ponds,
leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large.
>The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh.
>No one is invalidated, but nobody is right.

Its eerie how closely this mirrors the political landscape today. We're not talking about disagrees on one subject anymore, but ascribing to a different set of truths entirely. When right wingers talked about Seth Rich and Pizzagate, no one from the left gave them any time of day. When the left talks about the possibility of Russian influence on the election, the right completely laughs it off. We have entered our own bubbles with our own idea of "truth." Chances are if you follow politics you belong to one side, and you'll support one of the statements above and scoff at the other. You are but another little fish in your pond.

No, it's about safe spaces and ideological bubbles. Tumblr and /pol. The_Donald and ResetEra

>Chances are if you follow politics you belong to one side, and you'll support one of the statements above and scoff at the other. You are but another little fish in your pond.

What if I think they're both idiotic?

But comfy threads fit the same criteria though. Nothing but circlejerks where everyone says shit in a positive manner and pertains no real discussion. This is why shitposters are needed.

You're either a fiscal conservative or a median voter.

Amazing villains, you can't deny a lot of what they say, Raiden doesn't even beat them at the end of MGS2. Their future was left ambiguous until MGS4 came and ruined everything.

Well sure but they don't apply to the idea of idealogical debate, which is what Kojima is trying to get at. He's not talking about "comfy threads."

I wonder if Fukushima or Kojima wrote it

>Being civil when discussing things you have in common with people is bad and on the same level as a political topic

This is what children actually believe. Have an image older than you.

>you can't deny a lot of what they say,

except that they were lying the entire game so you have no reason to suddenly believe them at the end

MGS2 clearly exists outside of the canon of the series.

>MGS2 clearly exists outside of the canon of the series.

MGS4 says otherwise

MGS4 attempts to contextualize MGS2 into the series, while ignoring 90% of the insane 4th wall breaks and retconning everything.

MGS2 is it's own thing. MGS4 only exists because people saw MGS2 as something literal.

>while ignoring 90% of the insane 4th wall breaks and retconning everything.
see the image

>MGS2 is it's own thing
it's a (poorly done) sequel to MGS1

t.brainlet

MGS canon is absolute dogshit. MGS2 is the only good game in the series exactly because it shits on it's own canon while telling a meta story.

>MGS2 is the only good game in the series exactly because it shits on it's own canon while telling a meta story.

if MGS2 was so good, why did MGS4 need to fix everything about MGS2?

That people's right and ability to voice opinions and make arguments becomes bigger and more protected than any response, criticism or evaluation directed to the arguments or opinions.

>Fix

You mean how, up until MGSV, MGSS4 was the least liked game in the entire series and how it caused a delayed shift in opinionss that made MGS2 be accepted as the masterpiece it is?

>MGSS4 was the least liked game in the entire series and how it caused a delayed shift in opinions that made MGS2 be accepted as the masterpiece it is?

if you only listened to MGS2 fanboys.

>it's a (poorly done) sequel to MGS1

It's the only game after MGS1 that continued the story without fanwank retcon bullshit, how is it a bad sequel?

>MGS2 is the only good game in the series exactly because it shits on it's own canon while telling a meta story.

How did it shit on its own canon? MGS4 did that, MGS4 retcons pretty much every game in the series.

>if MGS2 was so good, why did MGS4 need to fix everything about MGS2?

People wanted answers to things the game din't ant or have to answer, Kojima folded, doesn't mean it was a good idea.

>why did MGS4 need to fix everything about MGS2?

MGS4 brought Big Boss back from the dead in better condition than Snake was currently in, just to give more endless waffle and die again. Enough said.

>People wanted answers to things the game din't ant or have to answer

that's what happens when you end the game with the main bad guys still out there ruining shit

It's called an ambiguous ending, used in many many different forms of media, MGS2, Sopranos, Inception...

>It's called an ambiguous ending, used in many many different forms of media, MGS2, Sopranos, Inception...

and your point is? Fans demanded enough for a proper ending and we got it.

It's not my fault that MGS2 "fans" don't like how MGS4 "ruined" MGS2

Definitely including Sup Forums, which people around here tend to deliberately overlook.

I hope the MGS3fags who say that MGS2fags have to accept the events of MGS4 as canon realise that MGS4, Peace Walker and Phantom Pain have absolutely obliterated MGS3.

Yes, you people got exactly the garbage kind of ending you deserved. MGS4 ruined MGS2 the most but it still dumped on the other games as well, Naomi's character was fucking ruined in MGS4, so was Meryl's, but people are too stupid to realise.

>garbage

says the MGS2 fan.

Kojima didn't fold, Konami forced him to do it. And he was getting death threats for not providing the answers the fans wanted. If you look at everything MGS4 has to offer, it's a fanservice game that gives those people exactly what they want in the worst possible way, like a fucking monkey's paw. Snake's back, but he's an old man. Meryl's back, but she marries the joke character that shits himself. Vamp's powers are explained, but they're nanomachines. We find out what happened to Olga's child, but she's got mental issues. We find out what happens to Raiden, but he's now the most badass character in the series. We find out why Ocelot gets possessed by Liquid, but it's actually just a nanomachine farce. The list goes on.

>We find out what happens to Raiden, but he's now the most badass character in the series

and this pisses off the MGS2 fanboys for some retarded reason.

New Raiden is better than old Raiden and has been in more games.

It doesn't piss fanboys off, it's just a complete 180 of his character. Kojima took the character that was universally reviled by players (intentionally so) and makes him the most badass character after the player gives up control of him. It's more shitting on the fans than anything else.

> it's just a complete 180 of his character.
When his "character" in MGS2 was a whiny bitch, this is a good 180.

>Kojima took the character that was universally reviled by players (intentionally so)

they made a bad character (on purpose) but then they made him good. How can anyone be pissed at this?

I like MGS3 and MGS1 too though, so nice try. Again, MGS4 also shit on those games, but I guess the kind of mouth breather who didn't understand MGS2's ending won't understand the bigger picture here.

Agreed but

> We find out what happens to Raiden, but he's now the most badass character in the series.

He is hands down the whiniest character in the series, except maybe after Huey. We got the infamous 'It even rained the day I was born" exchange from one of his emo fits.

People should see a hamfisted tryhard attempt at 'badass' when they see one. There's a world of difference between Grey Fox and Raiden, Grey Fox was fucking dying but Raiden just puts on this really gay raspy voice. Also, your picture is from a game where Raiden was actually not a complete shitshow, not MGS4.

another reason to kick kojima in the balls. he was just a whiny bitch.

i hate MGS2, but if he really believed in his ideals, the ideals that inspired him to make MGS2, he could have quit konami and ingored the death threats, no gamer would be THAT stupid to actually follow thru.

>Codec icon is changed to a gun

it's the little things

fuck MGS4

If Raiden wasn't voiced by Quintonn flynn, no one would say he was whiny at all, meanwhile in MGS1 Liquid Snake's entire motivation is inferiority complex and daddy issues but it's okay because he's a manly man with muscles.

Comfy threads are some of the best threads, kys senpai.

>but I guess the kind of mouth breather who didn't understand MGS2's ending
All I understood from the ending was that there was an AI out there that was lying and manipulating crap and it needed to be stopped.

>Also, your picture is from a game where Raiden was actually not a complete shitshow, not MGS4.

because it's a development from his new self in MGS4

because in MGS you were playing as a whining game nut instead of a supersoldier.

and in MGS4 the whining game nut BECAME a supersoldier because you werent playing as him.

MGS2 went out of his way to insult the players of the time thru raiden and the totally unneccessary hardships he faced in order to force them to see the game story and its themes rather than the adventures of the cheracters themselves.

in MGS4 Kojima did everything to still make gamers feel bad about themselves thru that.

So you didn't understand MGS2's ending, gotcha

I don't believe this death threat bullshit, I'm not saying he didn't get any I just can't believe he took them seriously, howm any times have we heard about death threats? Look at NGE, as if some fucking weeb nerd NEET piece of shit will go out and kill someone without knowing where the fuck they even live.

>MGS3 BB was just an autistic mommyfag
>tfw Liquid truly was his father's son
P O T T E R Y
O
T
T
E
R
Y

Actually god tier game

this, i dont believe it either.

some claim that kojima USED the threats as an inspiration for MGS4, technically, he didnt took them seriously, but still.

>listening to the words of an AI who lied the entire game

Sup Forums and Sup Forums are objectively right- freedom of speech is all that matters. Back to tumblr niggers.

>We got the infamous 'It even rained the day I was born" exchange from one of his emo fits.

This is right before he takes down a team of FROGs with no arms despite using a sword, and having lightning powers for some reason.

because MGS4 was weird, I really did enjoy raiden even though it basically shifts the entire ending of 2 to some weird black hole. Like Rosemary admitting she was there for the AI corruption and nobody wondering why Raiden was a fucking mental wreck after big shell like what the fuck

Might as well post the whole conversation
youtube.com/watch?v=eKl6WjfDqYA

>he thinks the ai is talking to raiden
he is talking to the player at that point.

He didn't lie about anything. I mean this in the least sarcastic way but raiden didn't ask the right questions. You assumed that the colonel was the same one from MGS1, he seemed just as confused as you about the wacky shit happening. Honestly snake lied to you more than the patriots and even sold you the fuck out as soon as it benefited him

You exercise your right to 'freedom' and this is the result.

He meant that MGS2 is the most kino game of the series

>All I understood from the ending was that there was an AI out there that was lying and manipulating crap and it needed to be stopped.

This is literally what Snake's final speech was about, how they can censor and control information but they can't stop us passing on our beliefs to our children, hence why memes is the main theme of MGS2.

>because it's a development from his new self in MGS4

Yes, Rising definitely salvaged an interesting character arc from the shitpile that was MGS4 Raiden, 'm not denying that, I actually think the damage control Rising did to Raiden was fucking impressive as hell, they gave him an arc and they even had something to say about hack and slash games where you murder 1000s of people, I'm just making a very clear distinction between Risng Raiden and MGS4 Raiden is all.

>and in MGS4 the whining game nut BECAME a supersoldier because you werent playing as him.

He became a whining supersoldier instead, cool. As an aside, how amazing was that plotline right? The whole Rose pretending to have left Raiden for the fucking Colonel to protect their family, and Raiden buying this? Yeah, what an amazing storyline.

>This is right before he takes down a team of FROGs with no arms despite using a sword, and having lightning powers for some reason.

Raiden took down SEVERAL Rays in MGS2, after taking down a small battalion with a Katana, but I guess that doesn't count for most people.

>he is talking to the player at that point.

and according to the MGS2 fanboys, Raiden represents the player so it's still talking to Raiden.

>He didn't lie about anything.
Says who? The AI is designed to lie and manipulate.

>Honestly snake lied to you more than the patriots and even sold you the fuck out as soon as it benefited him
You had no reason to distrust Snake.

>that feel when replaying MGS2 and not sure which Rose codec conversations were real and which were AI

>Says who?

says the game, again at no point did the AI give conflicting information, it told you what to do, you did it. When raiden questioned it, either it told raiden again to do something and raiden followed blindly or it stumbled over its own dick telling you to hold on while it gathered more intel to tell you later.

there's a difference between being a player surrogate and being the player themselves. you're just trolling at this point

>What is the result?

>after taking down a small battalion with a Katana

I used the gun because I could not handle the Katana controls

they way I understood. Rose was swapped out for the AI at Arsenal Gear

>says the game, again at no point did the AI give conflicting information, it told you what to do
it as manipulating you. What's to say that entire rant at the end was not just more manipulation?

Good job the Patriots were all housed on a server in one location that could be hacked, right? :^)

>the seething cuck reported his post to get it deleted

lmao

That was fast lol

Who else could wade through the sea of garbage you people produce, retrieve valuable truths and even interpret their meaning for later generations? That's what it means to create context.

Thanks mods

manipulating someone doesn't require lying, it just requires information, which I suppose is the entire point of memetics.

Looks like someone needs to "wade through the sea of garbage" (i.e ban and censor" the Left wing communist press in America as well?

Wouldn't you agree, comrades :)

>they way I understood. Rose was swapped out for the AI at Arsenal Gear

Yes, but the AI lterally tells you it gave you words of encouragement to ensure Raiden felt empowered and improve his morale, so how can you really say with absolute certainty you don't talk to the AI earlier than Arsenal Gear, there are several conversations where 'Rose' does just that to Raiden earlier on in the game. Not saying none of it was really Rose, but some of it could have been, easily, and it's fucking creepy.

>What's to say that entire rant at the end was not just more manipulation?

It's the exact same as when Emma tells you that there could have been more letters in the alphabet and none of us would be any the wiser, how would we know? It's kinda the point of theg ame.

>I agree with a corrupted AI represented as a Skull-face that wants to massively censor and destroy information

??? imagine being this retarded

I find it hilarious that Monsoon in Rising summarises what memes actually are really well, and it's an action game spin off to the series.

Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum. They stay inside their little ponds, leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large.

The "bad guys" are actually 100% correct in MGS2.

>I find it hilarious that Monsoon in Rising summarises what memes actually are really well, and it's an action game spin off to the series.

same with Armstrong

...

you can find communist threads on Sup Forums

the only thing that makes people withdraw into their ponds is the threat of censorship of speech by overbearing and partisan moderation.

If we had laws protecting freedom of speech on public platforms on the internet (such as Facebook or Twitter), we'd be in a much better place.

But also a much more Right-wing place. TPTB knows that.

t. soyboy

Armstrong was a fool though, the system he'd create would eventually stabilize and grow into the same shit we have today.

>you can find communist threads on Sup Forums
The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards development of convenient half-truths.

tips soy fedora, m'soyboy

MGR doesn't get nearly as much credit for the non action part of the game as it should, I mean, it gave us the classic 'talk-for-hours-about-shit' MGS codec back after MGS4 utterly annhilated it, I dunno' if that's even been mentioned but the codec in MGS4 is amongst the biggest let downs for me.

And I love that MGR did the same type of story that Ninja Gaiden 3 vanilla attempted to tell, but way better..

>the possibility of Russian influence on the election
this isn't what the left is screeching about. the russians have always tried to meddle in our elections (and so have a bunch of other countries, including allies). That's nothing new or controversial to point out. The left is screeching over supposed Trump collusion which IS bullshit but they always frqme it within the larger discussion of countries tampering with our elections. They do it to confuse you and conflate the two so that the collusion hot air doesn't look as far out batshit insane as it actually is.

The only good and memorable things about Ninja Gaiden 3 were the scenes where the alchemist got to ham it up.

Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you.
Freedom is desirable...
... but the government needs to step in to regulate it.
Freedom of speech is an absolute good...
... but communists need to be killed for their opinions.

>durr the patriots are bad

pic related is LITERALLY you

>MGS2 is the only good game in the series
"muh story" fags like this are not even worth having a discussion with

The government needs to regulate it (i.e ensure freedom is respected) because left-wing ideologues are quashing it by force and denying people their right to express themselves.

Communists need to be killed because they seek to enact legislature that is purely antithetical to all Western values, especially freedom of speech.

There is no juxtaposition here; Communists and Leftists are the only problem in our society and must be removed with extreme prejudice.

It was what put MGS1 beyond it's contempories at the time, don't act like it wasn't important.

...

>communists need to be killed for their opinions
No, they need to be killed for wanting to destroy culture and society. They're a pest.

Honestly incredible writing for this particular conversation.

this