Sup Forums here
for those of you who have considered or tried running pic related instead of Windows, how did you find the experience and what do you think needs to change or improve?
from ideological and technological standpoints, Linux is leagues ahead of Windows, but we all know that the user experience simply isn't anywhere near good enough and that's without bringing the smaller library into question. so how could we fix it?
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By having it not break in a new and exciting way every time I boot up.
It has less games than a PS3
what distro were you using?
pretty sure that's technically false but sure. it's missing a ton of games. improving the platform will get more people to adopt and thus more devs to target it though.
It can't run Microsoft Office flawlessly.
that's not vidya
Open source drivers are simply shit, unless you have the most compatible hardware, get ready for random fuck ups and the need to fix shit on your own, the user experience is pretty much non existent, not to mention the new bios bullshit when you can literally break your machine with a simple move.
I could go on and on and most of the complains would be graphic related, such as fonts, missing codecs, not even youtube can work without intervention, using wine to run windows applications is a joke when you're using windows anyway, there's still no adobe software equivalent.
The only think i enjoyed is the packet manager, everything is centered and easy to solve dependencies, but then again, one deprecated package can introduce more bugs.
What is your opinion on buying a Chromebook and dual booting Linux?
the way software installs, is installed or is run without doing so was more confusing than I felt it needed to be
having a big variety of not just games but also multimedia programs I regularly use either not be available, have worse options available or be significantly more cumbersome to make available is the real deal breaker
software is what makes a system, and even when the system itself is better in every way, if switching to it means drawbacks in software then that's a major deal
I tried several distros and I really liked what I saw. Except one thing: nvidia drivers. That part was catastrophic and interfered with a large part of what I need an OS to do.
But I already run linux
UI is better than windows unless you intentionally make it worse by using xfeces or something
everything aside from no gaems is better than windows
t. GNU/Linux expert
I did this. Then I never touched it again because it couldn't do anything much more than word processing and I needed Word for that, and web browsing but the keyboard was atrocious so I never used it.
KDEgenerate detected.
drop that toaster into some soapy bath water and get in
Are you defending these fags who are literally worse than windows/osx devs?
bugzilla.gnome.org
bugzilla.gnome.org
>Open source drivers are simply shit
a lot of them are actually pretty fucking good but it definitely is hit or miss. depends on the hardware manufacturer really.
>not to mention the new bios bullshit when you can literally break your machine with a simple move.
never heard of this. source?
Crouton might be a bit difficult to setup for a non-technical person but if you don't like ChromeOS and want a cheap laptop then I can't see why not.
how would you like software to be ran/installed? package managers are pretty straightforward and generally considered the best thing about desktop Linux but they only work well with free/libre software..
new bundling/sandboxing tech like flatpak, appimage and snappy will make it as simple as windows/os x but they're still a long way coming.
man I don't know about that. I have to constantly fuck with linking issues to get half my steam games to run after installation. I regularly do shit that 99% of people wouldn't be able to do for the sake of making my system work.
I like what Linux could be in theory but it simply isn't there.
Is Linux good for toasters? My laptop is borderline unusable in its current state with windows 8
Me an intellectual
yeah. I'd recommend a stable well-maintained distro though. something like Fedora or openSUSE.
>install Sup Forumsentoo thread
Do you have an AMD cpu and GPU?
wow im op im so smart i recomend linux
Absolutely, a lightweight distro is a good way to revive a toaster. there are a lot of distros to try, but for tosters you're looking at desktop environments like xfce, mate or lxde. You could start with mint xfce and see if it's fast enough.
why are you intimidated by software
Nah, go back to W7 ultimate edition 64-bits, I have a 1GHz integrated gpu in cpu machine running well on that
this is Sup Forums stupid fuck go to Sup Forums with this gay ass shit
I've been using an old computer I've had since ~2004. Decided to try and install Lubuntu.
Probably not the best lightweight distro, but I can't remember this old piece of shit being this fast when I first bought it.
Debian
debian is a piece of shit
>I-I just want to play my m-mario game...
>how would you like software to be ran/installed?
I'm just used to everything either installing into whatever directories out of the way they're designed to work in that's also automatically compatible with everything else. I use plenty of little tools here and there that are just exe and libraries with no installer I have to throw into some kind of folder for that kind of programs but it's never preferable, and Windows has come with built-in solution for that for as long as I can remember.
>so how could we fix it?
You can't, linux will never adapt to the average consumer's likings nor the game developer's needs in the foreseeable future
Hey Sup Forums, I had the weirdest thing happen to me on linux. I wanted to check what's on all the USB sticks I have lying around, so I plugged them in one by one. But linux just remembered what's on the first one and showed the exact same thing again on every other stick, even though they were absolutely not copies of each other. What's up with that?
By bringing more games and something that could handle Office, the thing that most desk jobs use.
as a guy who write .NET software for a living I can assure you that Windows has no built-in solution for this. you typically get a self-extracting binary package that's scripted to handle all the complexity (registry entries, %APPDATA% or %PROGRAMDATA% crap, etc) for you. the most popular way to solve linking issues is to just bundle every single DLL you need for the executable to run, which doubles the size of the installer and install directory on average.
this is a third-party solution that's mainly feasible because Windows is ONE target that hardly changes from system to system. they go through great pains to allow retro-compatibility even across new OS releases, but that's not without consequences.
if everybody who wrote software for Linux only targeted, say, Fedora, then you'd get the exact same thing pretty much. in any case, containers like flatpak should largely solve this problem for you and work across all distros. assuming it doesn't turn into a fragmented collection of systems to the point where devs don't bother because they don't want to maintain half a dozen packages.
the software itself can be made to do anything. just look at Android. what you're describing is a community problem.
that's actually probably a file manager bug. what distro were you using?
>what distro were you using?
I was distrohopping, but I'm almost sure that happened on elementary os.
Since you're on Sup Forums, I'll just get to it and say: Games. While games aren't the only reason I have this computer, it's still a big reason, and Linux doesn't have a good solution to this. The second biggest issue comes down to drivers and software support. I'd honestly rather spend an hour trying to at least make Windows *pretend* it's not hemorrhaging my PII and removing choice from me than use shit like Gimp, and losing access to the overwhelming bulk of my games.
i use linux
95% of what i want to play is on linux, its usually AAA drivel that doesnt get ported, but even that is showing up more often
Pretty shit, I spend more time trying to fix things than doing some useful or enjoyable.
>b-but it works on my machine
>b-but you're just dumb
^
And this mainly the reason people hate linuxfags.
You'd think a bunch of nerds trying so hard to make their shitty OS work would be able to make some fucking video drivers.
>How would you like software installed
I want to double click whatever it is and have it install, or right click the install archive and have it give me an install option
I used mint and any time I wanted to install Jack shit I had to go into terminal and do some sudo apt get shit, only for that to not work because I'm missing dependencies so I have to find out what dependencies I need so I can then install the program through terminal. Software manager fucking blows.
>Hurrhurr terminal is too hard for this brainlet
And Linux will never fucking catch on with normies if I can't so much as install rollercoaster tycoon 2 without jumping through a million hoops with drivers and dependencies. Still use it for my laptop though as it's very lightweight compared to windows
I unironically never want to get linux to never take over the desktop / gaming space. It's just going to become a shitshow of help vampires and people who are not willing to learn.
Oh hey you play the new Starwars Battlefront game? Oh wait, it's not available on your shitty meme OS.
this is a given. Linux has no games because it has no users because it has no games. the only way it can get users without games is to make it a better platform than Windows. what I'd like to know is what the average PC gamer would like their OS to do.
I agree
making a modern GPU driver is one of the hardest things to do in computer science. I could not communicate to you the unfathomable complexity of it. the fact that projects like Nouveau even work reliably without any help from Nvidia is a fucking miracle.
apt-get should pull dependencies for you. I'm surprised this happened at all. how long ago was this?
I understand you're used to install wizards and would like to keep it the same way. that's perfectly fine. that doesn't mean they're not complete and utter garbage though.
Windows is already as retard friendly as possible and I still get calls to help people do simple fucking things like printing shit, I can't imagine what a world where the majority of people using Linux would be like.
hte problem s mass appeal. linux is not easy to use and is too open unlike windows and the extreme case of locked down shit that is a mac.
linux will have to break into the casual market. then devs will start bothering with native support. also devs can barely make a decent windows port these days. devs want to make the software run by powerful hardware's brute forceforce
Doesn't help when on windows world people always use some different shilled shitty GUI tool, so you can't even spoonfeed them. "Oh you use that SQL Database editor, well fuck, maybe google where you can enter the sql query or something"
When I was young I couldnt figure out howto do anything. Havent tried it since.
it's a terrible garbage game for normies anyway. it should be a console exclusive since console gamers are already completely lost anyway.
the argument against this is always the same: Android
ultimately people should not even realize they're running FLOSS. we can simultaneously make it nice and cozy for them whilst still keeping it interesting and malleable for us.
OS X is not any more locked down than Windows
Star Wars 2K18 is AAA drivel
I'm guy #3 in that reply string but this was about 2 months ago. You can say what you will about the technical side of install wizards being stupid but people aren't going to want to switch over to terminal commands installing all of their stuff.
>ultimately people should not even realize they're running FLOSS. we can simultaneously make it nice and cozy for them whilst still keeping it interesting and malleable for us.
Android is a shitty OS that is rotten from the core running a buggy bionic libc with a braindamaged idea of running mobile software from heavy JVM, it's definitely not a full FLOSS software stack either. Getting anything running on it without heavy modifications is also PITA.
Android is a meme and will never kill off IOS or Windows Mobile.
Windows is retard-friendly up until the point one cog in the pointlessly bloated and obtuse machine shits the bed, and you have to spend hours figuring out why something arbitrarily decided it didn't want to work any more.
>this is a given. Linux has no games because it has no users because it has no games. the only way it can get users without games is to make it a better platform than Windows. what I'd like to know is what the average PC gamer would like their OS to do.
The average PC gamers are steamtards that have neither the desire nor the inclination to fix problems themselves, meaning that a lot of the shit they'd want to use would have to work *out of the box*. If I would have to say the biggest thing a linux OS would need to accomplish this is good dependency resolution.
None of the OS can do simple task of forking a process and communicating over IPC. All code must exist in a single binary, which is the reason all your mobile software is unstable crap. Play and Appstore are full of malware and spyware. If you use Android at least install f-droid and remove the google services.
f-droid is detected as malware on newer phones
>linux will have to break into the casual market
this, but sadly that probably won't happen because as long as it hasn't broken into the casual market, the user experience will remain bad
imagine how sweet it would be to have a very large community working on a mainstream linux release, hell it could be just as shit as windows in terms of bloat and UI, but as long as it would have the same kind of support and isn't literal spyware, I'd be pretty happy already
the "apt-get" command is just a CLI tool to use the underlying system. ubuntu/etc also have GUI package managers but they're shit because nobody really uses them.
obviously, we have to account for the fact that most users are going to want the most intuitive way to do these things instead of the most efficient one. which is why things like flatpak are being developed.
current day desktop Linux has some extremely problematic issues but you're describing one of the least pressing ones.
I don't like it from a technological standpoint either but the UX is completely fine for your average user. it's solid proof that you can build normie-proof systems with FLOSS if you have the manpower and proper direction.
also, AOSP on its own is pretty much the Android experience. proprietary GAPPS and hardware drivers are a big problem but they're besides the point.
if you want another decent example, try Firefox and Webkit. almost everybody you know uses one of those.
Android is the most successful mobile OS by a long shot. what are you smoking?
Things like TempleOS fill the need for a casual market OS.
you gotta herd the nigger cattle after all
If Android is so successful how come most desktop PCs in offices and at homes are running Windows?
You can call it least pressing all you like but the huge userbase you want is (surprisingly) more retarded than I am and my issue will gatekeep them from ever wanting anything to do with Linux.
>Sorry Barbara I can't install Facebook messenger, my computer doesn't install things
Terry, I'm CIA.
I have a 150GB gaming partition with Windows to run Steam. Gaming on Linux is shit, no matter how much I wish it wasn't.
If your harddrive is fast enough, dual booting isn't that big of an issue.
You can also run windows inside qemu and dedicate it a GPU, this gives you native performance with the advantage that windows is basically contained.
>dedicate it a GPU
I only have one of those, and I'm assuming that one can't be shared between host and emulation.
If you have intel HD graphics, that's enough for linux.
Nope, can't share it when they are running at the same time at least. If you have intel CPU you usually have integrated GPU though and that's enough for linux. You also of course need to give the windows vm own monitor, or switch since windows will be totally in control of that GPU and drive the graphics.
because when Android showed up it filled a market segment that wasn't satisfied by anything else. just like Windows did in the 80's. if iOS had been a tiny bit less of a walled garden, it would probably have rapidly expanded to 98% market share.
that's just the way the game works. your success guarantees itself because people aren't going to want to go through the trouble of migrating unless there's a very good reason to do so. no desktop OS has provided a very good reason to get people off of Windows.
I say it's not pressing because it's on the verge of being fixed, not because it's not important. bad writing on my part.
I think I'll stick to dual booting.
SR-IOV actually allows both the guest and the OS to use the GPU. if you don't mind paying over a grand for 1070 tier performance that is.
I'm kind of disappointed consumer Vega doesn't have it.
>how did you find the experience and what do you think needs to change or improve?
It felt odd, new, most things you did on windows no longer are valid and ultimately it feels extremely rewarding to have gone through it.
Basic rookie example: Downloading Nvidia drivers from their site.
Interesting, is that some sort of hardware level multiplexing?
it's probably like VT-d/x (kind of how you can pass CPU instructions to the metal from a guest kernel) but I don't know the specifics of it.
Was using Arch Linux, loved it, but had to switch back to Windows because the art program alternatives available on Linux were just caveman in comparison -- especially if you have to do video editing. Tablet drivers were also borderline nonexistant, with the only help I could find on the subject instructing me to write my own drivers.
>So what is SR-IOV? The short answer is that SR-IOV is a specification that allows a PCIe device to appear to be multiple separate physical PCIe devices. The SR-IOV specification was created and is maintained by the PCI SIG, with the idea that a standard specification will help promote interoperability.
So it's hardware level multiplexing and a PCI standard. That's pretty interesting.
It's not that difficult to write your own drivers. I had to do the same thing to get Overwatch to run on Linux.
>art program alternatives available on Linux
If you mean for digital art, krita and mypaint are IMO better than the alternatives.
I've been using Xubuntu for the last five years. No complaints. Sure you don't get many AAA games, but those are mostly garbage anyway.
I like the idea of Linux, but I just don't have the patience to maintain it or spend my evenings reading documentation whenever I want to try anything slightly advanced or if something has broke.
I'd gotten to a point where I was playing everything in a Windows VM using GPU passthrough but when that stopped working I gave up.
>use shit like Gimp
Anyone who wants to use a "casual photoshop" already uses Krita. For advanced image manipulation it's not the best.
Install CloverOS
It's Gentoo with a nice installer, minimal packages, and is optimized to run on weak computers.
It has several emulators including rpcs3, dolphin, pcsx2, snes9x, and higan.
Plus a lot of great FPS games like doom, quake, urban terror, and open arena are also available.
If you install wine-any, you can start running early DX11 games, with more support coming soon.
Lastly the default kernel does support qemu so setting that up is pretty easy overall.
If they simply added a more simpler approach to playing vidya instead of just emulating it off of WINE.
I guarantee you if they just changed that everyone here would switch to Linux.
We're a lot more tired of win10's shit than you think we are.
>I like the idea of Linux, but I just don't have the patience to maintain it or spend my evenings reading documentation whenever I want to try anything slightly advanced or if something has broke.
If something breaks you google it and 99.9% of the time copypasting a line into the command prompt will fix it.
We don't live in the 90s anymore. Those outdated Linux memes need to die. You can just install a popular distribution and use it without knowing a thing.
The only problem I did have it since I use linux was the proprietary drivers.
Motherfuckin' Broadcom
it runs Enemy Territory just fine
Libre Office is superior in every way
True. Tech supporting would be extremely easy if you could just text your mom "Open terminal and type this"
If linux were more widely used people would at the very least know what terminal is. No further knowledge of the commands needed.
On my laptop i have a discrete intel gpu coupled with an nvidia one, for some reason ubuntu 17.something only let me use the intel one so i can't game on my laptop.
so yeah, shit drivers.
Yeah, if you perform your office work in an isolated bubble where full docx/xlsx compatibility is somehow not needed.
When I can run a fully fledged Windows 7 that acts exactly as a real one would and can play every game I can on a real install I'll switch. There's just no point in doing so now when there are so few games and wine/playonlinux is such a messy fucking pain in the ass to set up. I wouldn't mind having a dedicated Windows PC I solely use to play games that doesn't even have an internet connection because gaming on linux is just so shitty if you want to play something that isn't an emulator or a rougelike
Not in a millon years.
Then again same could be said about windows. Anything under the hood and you're on your own. The difference being that you already know windows quite well so you don't have to google those things again. It might be even harder on windows when there are percentually less people doing the deep end stuff.
How is this the only post in the thread mentioning passthrough.
Oh wait, nu-Sup Forums. Carry on.
different Sup Forums here, I've used Lonux for vidya for ages now, had no problem, even used WINE for a few games
if you're asking how to make this better for normans, then just encourage inclusivity in the community, there's WAY too much division in the linux community and that's not good for anyone. I'm glad that we have Steam even though I hate DRM, as now we have something that we can sort of unite around.
I was going to start my post off with "Linux is worthless for gaming until gpu passthrough takes 30 seconds to set up for a total novice" but didn't
Krita is better than Gimp? How come?
Not him, but he wasn't saying that. He was just pointing to krita as something "easier to use". Gimp is powerful, but overwhelming. Same could be said for something like imagemagick.
It was already mentioned earlier, but not with the "passthrough" word.
I've been myself fixing wine to work with games I've wanted to play. It's probably not something everyone wants to do, but for me that's already game itself.
No need to switch. Windows already does everything i want it to.
gimp is pretty trash, krita is more for painting and creation than editing. Image manipulation software, games, and display server/drivers are whats keeping linux from being a viable alternative for most people desu