What is the appeal of turn-based combat?

What is the appeal of turn-based combat?

it's not even turn-based, it's meter based. I hate ATB.

There's a pretty large amount of turn based gameplay types. The JRPG implementation of standing in a line and picking options from a menu is shitty. SRPG/turn based tactics gameplay is great though. Turn based allows you to control a large amount of characters while in real time you generally can't. The best you can do is constantly switch between them but while you're not playing as one they have to be controlled by AI. The same with RTWP.

its for brainlets

>hit fire weakness enemy with fire move!

you can completely shut your brain down while playing it. it's probably my go-to genre after a long day of work because it's so effortless

Not good turn based games. IE anything but jrpgs.

It's good.
If you pick up a shitty franchise like FF you're obviously not going to understand what makes it good though, that stuff is trash.

low stress, comfy gameplay. the kind you can just wrap yourself up in a blanket on a cold evening, hot chocolate on the side. no fucking pressure for you to leave off to get a snack, or make a sandwich, and clean up in between.

need to grind? put it on mute, & do it while watching a TV show, YT, animu, film, shitposting, etc. on another device, like your laptop or tablet (or if you're on PC, put the game on one half of the screen and the other whatever you'd prefer to do to keep the boredom away). 5-10 level ups feels like a 5-10 minute affair when you're distracted by something else for the last 2-3 hours.

ATB is not low-stress!

you don't have to mash buttons.

Yeah, it's garbage, like all FF.

>not putting that shit on Wait
>in before complaining "B-but that's not what it's for!"

In ff7, you pick which one you want in options. I think they also ask you which one you want to use at least once in the course of the game itself.

tactics and planning it's only supposed to be a representatino of what the characters are actually doing though
JRPG's completey ruined with flashy animations and other crap

I was a brainlet, but I never saw a difference between Wait and default.

>visit mother in nursing home
>there's a PSX hooked up to the common room big TV
>they play classic JRPGs

The accessibility of turn based combat is good not just to get kids to sit down, think about what they're doing and read what's on the screen, but its also good for the elderly who can't manage twitch based games anymore.
I for one hope that Dragon Quest is still around doing its thing in 10 years when I retire.

wait - atb stops when you open menus or target. sometimes for animations too
active - atb doesnt pause

>full ATB
>select enemy to attack, open magic/item/summon/etc. menu, without confirming
>go off to take a piss
>play with pet
>eat a bow of cereal
>go buy groceries
>sleep
>finally make your choice the next day without the enemy having taken a move.

oh shit. I was so flustered I probably turned Wait on for a second and didn't notice anything, and quickly turned it back.

Its comfy

I thought it was super interesting in Mana Khemia. The turn bar has a bunch of blank space and you had abilities that could nullify the turn order. Hasted characters getting a lot more turns would be much more obvious to see and if an enemy was hasted (many enemy cards) or there were damage over time effects on the field you could swap out beefier characters to tank those hits or use a move that squashes all the turns between 2 points to stop those actions from ever taking place. Likewise you had some items/moves that would slow time and increase the distance between two points on the bar for emergency healing or something.

Only turn based games I really liked were Fallout and Wasteland.

Shadow Hearts was neat too, because it was all about managing the special bar. With special you could move twice in one turn or combo your turn into a party member's or do double combo moves and it was supported by the ability to knock enemies into the air or down to the ground so that different special attacks were more effective. It ended up working very similar to SMT or Persona where your goal is a turn 0 victory or else the enemies are able to do the same thing and kill at least one party member.

it's garbage

people like it because it's brainless and they can beat every enemy by outstatting/cheesing

devs like it because it's easy to design, developing a skill-based action combat system takes too much effort

It is fine for bosses, but boring as hell for every shitty mob.

Full party control.

It's really nice to be able to just take your time especially if you're high as fuck

Strategy turn based is best. That at least has a little thought required.

>single monitor PC setups
I forgot it was possible.

we can't all have 3 shitty $75 walmart monitors

But I want to roleplay as just one person.

dnd is turn based and there's nothing wrong with that.

>new gen ADD gamers can't handle turn based

weebs always go on about strategy or some shit, but I think they're just too stupid to realize they made a poor buying choice and won't admit it

I liked Battle Chasers

Not shit like Shin Megami Tensei RPGs.
Buffs, debuffs, weaknesses, and strengths.
I'm pretty bad at those types like Nocturne or that Cyber Sleuth Digimon game.

It's comfy.

also, emulating some games and turning up the res to 16:9 1080P don't always work out so well, especially with pre-rendered backgrounds.

cat looks like janny LOL

I liked the game a lot more when I turned ATB to Active and set the Battle Speed all the way up. The game suddenly got more interesting for me.

Now if it had timed hits like Super Mario RPG, it'd be even more engaging, but that was an improvement.

I always set it to Wait if the game has an ATB system. I guess it works well enough in general but it just seems to be the worst of both worlds. Not only do you get to sit around doing absolutely nothing while everyone's meters fill up, in the normal mode you also get the pleasure of getting murder-raped while you're sorting through your inventory of 50+ knickknacks looking for a potion.

This, you can get comfy and look away at at show or afk whenever you need without any pressure or worry.

This.

You get to feel like you're powerful with absolutely no skill or technique whatsoever.

Also, even though it gets a little old, Limit Breaks, Summons, E Skills, and Endgame Spells all have neat animations and sounds followed by huge numbers. It's a simple pleasure.

I always did the timed hits with all characters in FF8 not just Squall. I felt like I was getting more crits that way.

Shit, FF8 has timed hits? I need to play that fucking game someday. Just like I need to actually finish FF7.

I like them because their combat mechanics are systematic and nuanced in just about everything behind the scenes in actual combat.

They're really fun if you're into powergaming and just breaking shit in unconventional ways.

Real time combat=player mechanically intensive

Turn-based=player innovation

That's how it's always been for me anyway.

FF7 specifically has Materia, and there's few limits to what you can do if you think of a combination and the game actually lets you do it.

I wonder why more turn-based RPGs don't include Paper Mario/Mario RPG-esque action commands. That makes turn based infinitely more interesting.

only with Squall. The idea is you pull the trigger of his gunblade to crit. It doesn't work for anyone else but I did it anyway in hopes of it working sort of like mashing B to catch a pokemon

I always liked turn based tactics games, focusing on one individual grunt and turning them into a demi-god of war is satisfying. Real time strategy games never offer anything like that.

>pick up a shitty franchise like FF
>you're not going to understand what makes it good
>that stuff is trash
spoken like a true genius. wubba lubba dub dub, amirite fellow intellectual?

I've always thought combining ATB with actual Active and a fast speed could go with Timed Hits to have a JRPG that is a lot more engaging even if it's still stuck being a JRPG, which are for some reason more addictive than they should be.

Well, that's a little disappointing, but at least it's for the character that's always around from the beginning to the end. Unless he's not like Cloud.

>all these brainlets in here that thinks button mashing is more tactical than turn based

me too, but not the camera shake that you cant disable
nor can you speed up the animations

FF IS trash though, it requires no effort whatsoever and is stuck in archaic design conventions, no wonder devs gave up and turned it into an action game, which is unsurprisingly as mediocre as the turn based ones.

FF8 has some moments where he's not around but they are interesting times

All that stuff is interesting until you realize Anna makes 90% of it irrelevant by making it be her turn forever. Then Roxis's ability to wipe out enemy time effect attacks becomes the only other thing that continues to matter.

shit I did the same thing

you must be at least 18 to post here

Yeah, in those days it always was kind of interesting the reasons why a main character would leave their own game. Like with Cloud, you'd find out the game's own main character has been lying to everyone, including you, only he doesn't know he's doing it.

they are just impatient kids, they'll grow into it

That's probably the thing I enjoyed most about FF7. It's something fairly exclusive to the JRPG genre that I feel people don't take into account when looking at the genre most of the time. I also understand that breaking combat systems isn't everyone's cup of tea though. I just love the feeling of having outsmarted the limitations of the game.

This. I don't have to have quick reflexes. I can take my time and plan my moves.

It's fun.

never understood why having quick reflexes is an insult on nu-Sup Forums
classic games are mostly pretty fast

Traditional Turn-based combat is boring without any good gimmick going with it.

The only game where Turn-based combat was actually appealing to me was LISA's turn-based combat.

>I just love the feeling of having outsmarted the limitations of the game.
Doesn't amount to much when the game doesn't really demand anything other than the bare minimum.

>Turn-based waaaaaaay back when
>Normal enemies killing your ass was a very real possibility and you had limited inventory space.

>Most turn-based by the mid 90s
>Not even the final boss can manage to shave off more than 10% of your party's health with their ultimate attack and you can carry 99 of every healing item.

I remember really enjoying Final Fantasy I & II Dawn of Souls when I was in the hospital. I am so thankful for turn based games or I would have went insane laying in bed all day watching shitty television on a 7 inch screen. There was an Xbox with Halo but using a huge controller when you have tubes, wires and machinery stuck in you is uncomfortable at best or outright impossible.

Fuck I hated the original Xbox controller and the trip cord thing. I tried to pull the TV/ Xbox trolley toward me and the controller just pops out.

When you become an adult, you tend to accumulate things in your life. Each time I upgrade my monitor, my newest monitor becomes my primary, and my old one replaces my secondary monitor. I even set my mom up with one of my old monitors as a secondary and she uses it all the time. I suggest keeping both monitors when you finally feel the need to upgrade.

I only played the beginning of this game but isn't the only difference that if you can do a dragon punch you get a little extra damage compared to picking the move out of your skill menu?

Play through the entire game user, trust me it gets better. After Act 2, the game really speeds up.

I consider most of the best JRPGs to contain secret bosses that basically had to be cheesed with deeper understanding of the game's combat system to actually complete. Persona 5's reaper was like this, Final Fantasy VII's weapons were like this etc.

It's arguably one universal trait that people praise about the genre if you're not a fan of the other tropes they fall into.

I was bored out of my fucking mind by everything in the first two hours, I stopped playing. The combat especially is such a god damn awful slog.

I like how Ruby and Emerald Weapon have different mechanics from each other as well as most every boss in the game. Superbosses in general are a neat idea to me. Though given the nature of JRPGs the only one I bother with every time is Culex from Super Mario RPG.

What's the appeal of this?

>I consider most of the best JRPGs to contain secret bosses that basically had to be cheesed with deeper understanding of the game's combat system to actually complete
Again, that doesn't mean a lot when the system itself is paper thin, deeper understanding of a puddle doesn't amount to much, even worse when all there is to the game is fighting.

I hate ATB so fucking much who thought that was a good system?

It lets your mind fill in the gaps for the metaphor the turn based combat insists exists. With modern games everything is filled in for you. realism is boring because it emulates what already exists visually. There's usually no room for the fantasy aspect to exist.

The reason fantasy and fiction are so popular and why table top games still exist is because your mind is allowed to fill in the gaps, which is important for becoming absorbed into the game.

>muh action games are deep as the mariana

Mostly all the pussy you get.

While combos make it slightly better, it's still unbalanced and not very interesting. Games with turn-order manipulation, systems like Grandia, really customizable systems (materia), turn-0 systems, timed hits, and SRPGs (Tactics Ogre) are all differing flavors to keep things interesting.

Im fine with atb
FFX was good actual turn based though even if being able to see how moves effected youre que made it easy if you paid any attention

FF designers stopped trying after III, V was the only game that tried to somewhat make a decent system.
I'm not talking in favour of action games, shallow games are shallow, be it action or turn based, FFVII is a shallow game that doesn't require any thought and it's free of get out of jail for free cards at all points in the game, which is terrible since combat is all there is to the game and it's horribly easy to break into little pieces with zero effort.

FFX stales itself by not using that aspect enough along with having a boring "counter" system and limited sphere grid.

lmao

Most of the between time I spend trying to figure out the best way to go about each mob
Im autistic I guess so It will bother me to no end if I hit something for 900 damage if it only has 20 hp left and theres another monster alive
Same with overhealing
And I hoard all my items refusing to use them so gotta conserve that MP between rest points

I like it. That's enough for me. Now fuck off.

I liked the sphere grid enough even though it was effectively just normal leveling for the main story that made you navigate a menu
Thats one of the biggest things I dislike about a decent portion of FF titles
Everyone ends up doing everything/the same shit

The issue with homogeneity in FF games is more due to damage being the only real thing to do on a turn besides heal.

in regards to what game? You're not providing a lot of context here. Just saying there isn't depth doesn't justify that there isn't any, since we're not being provided for the context of this 'depth' you're talking about, so you're basically saying nothing.

>Everyone ends up doing everything/the same shit
Oh yeah, much better having all characters arbitrarily locked to a handful of abilities and equipment and have stupid shit like a bigass knight not being able to equip daggers for some reason but being totally fine with bigass swords.
The problem isn't that everyone can do the same stuff, the problem is that those games are designed by incompetent people who can't even realize that having characters being able to do everything without any kind of drawback or minimal personal traits is horrible.

There's nothing wrong with having all characters have access to a common set of abilities as long as you make each character defined enough on at least a basic stat level, so they can have pros and cons about being developed in a certain way, something which FF never, ever had because none of the systems they needlessly pile up on top of each other work as they're supposed to do with each other.
That's why you get trash like FFVII or VIII when the only difference between characters are limit breaks.

I'll take turn-based over this borefest any day of the week.

my dream FF combat system would be FF XV except
>Multiple enemies at a time that are a actual threat
>you set up Gambits like in FFXII for all the other party members
>at any time you can give a command to a character, change targets or change Gambits which they will act out the next time they can move.
>a slightly more restricted version of the way the bravely series handles jobs (certain characters can do certain jobs)

This isn't just a problem with final fantasy games. It's almost any game with mechanical overload issues. Action games do this by giving you a swathe of movesets even though players will just opt for the lowest effort with the greatest returns. Too much implementation and not enough "why should this be used as an option" as to what developers put in their games.

>Oh yeah, much better having all characters arbitrarily locked to a handful of abilities and equipment
But thats exactly what I prefer
Even when it is open ended I try to force certain archetypes on characters like in 5 my magic caster(usualyl galfu/krile) will always be some form of damage caster and faris will always fall in line as a thief/ninja/sometimes dragoon or ranger and bartz will always be knight/samurai/mystic knight/dragoon wearing plate

its one of the reasons 4 and 9 are my favorite titles in the series coupled by the fact they are more medieval fantasy in tone compared to alot of the franchise

>Only difference between characters are limit breaks
I actually legit forget that they all have different stats sometimes, weird in a game where the main mechanic always nerfs those. And it's not something that you notice except for the early parts where Aerith is obviously the best for spells. After that it blurs.