How much of what Tsumugi said was lies?

How much of what Tsumugi said was lies?

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Most of it. An easier question would be what was true. And, since we're in the lie/truth idea, Kokichi didn't do anything wrong and didn't want to kill anyone.

She was telling the truth until she got desperate about convincing them that everything is fake to make them vote, like telling them their thoughts and feelings were lies. She gives it away by saying how she was glad K1-B0 survived to be the audience's camera, which means she didn't have total control over everyone's actions

She was such an awful asspull, even by danganronpa standards

>didn't do anything wrong
>tricked an impressionable lummox to kill for him

the entire world was a lie. Basically everything she said was a lie by omission.

But I assume you mean when she was "telling the truth" in 3-6

who the fuck knows, if DR supplemental material is any indication I'm sure the answer will be disappointing

How much of Kiibo is "human"? I'm still under the impression that he's an emotionless robot that just follows Twitch chat and when he had his antenna knocked off he was programmed to destroy in the name of H O P E

Everything that happens in V3's ending is way better and more clever than the first two games', and when the emotional responses finally settle people will say in a few years it was easily the best game of the series.

Chapters 1-5 a lot since she was pretending to be an innocent student
Chapter 6 is where she is forced to admit the truth

He had no choice, it was either that or be killed by Miu. Also, it was central to his overall plan to end the killing game

They would have been in better position if they had just restrained her. Kokichi is still a piece of shit.

None of him was "human" but his AI is advanced enough to let him be like a human. He has free will and emotions.

Tsumugi was a brainwashed student who was put into the role of mastermind by team DR.

That's why she appears in the prologue alongside the rest who remember being kidnapped.

how is any of it an asspull

I seriously don't understand all the hate towards the ending. People say that it makes the entire rest of the game, and all the character development completely irrelevant, but that's just untrue. The entire point is that the show may be fiction, but what happened is still real to them, and that it's monstrous to put them through that.

Virgin Lie Guy VS Chad Hope Messiah edit when?

>Tsumugi was a brainwashed student who was put into the role of mastermind by team DR.
I hope so. I want a sequel that explores this.

given he knew her plan he had plenty of ways to avoid being killed without killing her

he wanted gonta to kill miu because he wanted to win the game and this way two people die
no reason to sugarcoat or make excuses for it

BUILT FOR SEX!

Most of the criticism is from emotional people who hate when things change to the things they like, or people who are so shallow the only interpretation they extrapolate from the ending is "le it's all a dream endings are bad kohacka". Give it two years and people will realize how much better it is.

and is dead

Yeah, that's the impression I'm getting too. I feel like it will be remembered a lot more fondly in the future.

Her cosplaypox has no proper basis and with nothing to back it up it's likely a lie to further the game.
Her skin rash is likely a mixture of the make up she uses to change her skin tone when she cosplays.

Shuichi called her a copycat, similarly rantarou called the monokubs a pathetic copy, it's safe to say that danganronpa is a copy of a real danganronpa.
This backs up how none of the teens knew what was going on when they saw the kubs and the other 15 students when they supposedly signed up for this game that they loved.
I think the biggest pokemon fans would recognise pikachu re skins especially if it happened 52 times and the pikachus had the same body shape and size.

Yeah cause you'd sure be comfortable living with some bitch who plotted to kill you

You're never going to give up on this, are you?

Lucario is better
Who is the Lucario of DR?

so you're saying it's okay to kill people because you're uncomfortable?
again, no reason to sugarcoat things
if you're in a killing game most people adapt a kill or be killed mentality and ouma was no exception

He should've obviously just told everyone that Miu was trying to kill him. They would've had to believe him because he's been nothing but helpful and trustworthy the entire game and definitely not an annoying piece of shit

She never existed anyways. She's a video game character, user.

Well, Coxpox was obviously a lie, that isn't even a theory. If she was telling the truth, she would have been fine cosplaying Kaede, since she's a fictional character

Why do Kaede and Shuichi remember being kidnapped before the first flashback light? This memory is destroyed during the prologue, too.

Are the characters in the prologue actual human beings or "blank slates" manufactured by Team Danganronpa? Either their memories are already wiped, or Tsumigi was lying them being fans who interview to apply.

Were the interviews faked? No one knew what was happening in the prologue, despite apparently interviewing to be on Danganronpa. Rantaro, a previous survivor, is the only one to remember?

Is K1-B0 even a robot? He A.) doesn't speak at all in the prologue and B.) doesn't look like a robot.

As much as the plot of the next game needs it to be

>died
>her simulated version died
>doesnt exist in the first place
>tfw she's fucking triple dead

They were kidnapped. They send in their auditions and then Team DR just goes and grabs whoever they accept. They don't know what's going on because nobody explains to them that they got picked until they arrive at the gym. Kibo is a robot.

>"I'm gonna kill everyone and win!"
Why didn't Kaito start shanking people as soon as he heard the words "Killing Game"?

They were students who auditioned to be on the show. They were chosen to be on the show and kidnapped and taken to the set, and they remember the ordeal but don't know why it's happening until after this get their Ultimate clothing. This memory is erased after they get the flashback light because it took place in the real, non-DR world. Rantaro remembers because he recorded a video of himself after winning the previous season, and played this video back for himself when his memories were re-erased. Keebo was created to be the audience's eyes, because that was the gimmick of the season. So he's a robot.

Because it was a lie

And she's still better than any of the girls that survived.

As another person argued, they'd recognize immediately that they're in Danganronpa.
>They're in a school with the windows barred
>There's 16 of them
>Only Rantaro comments on this: "If this is what I think it is..."
>Maki says: "If this is what you think it is?
>Aren't aware of what Ultimate Talents are
>Even when the knock-off mascots of the show appear, they aren't aware that they're in Dangranronpa
So you're both wrong. There's no way they auditioned, were kidnapped, and placed within Danganronpa V3 without either:
>Having their memories replaced pre-prologue
or
>Never having interviewed for Danganronpa at all

If everything was scripted, then why didn't Monokuma know what happened in trial 5? Why would she have to monitor them in the first place?

>tsumugi brings up cos pox once
>everyone assumes its true

>they'd recognize immediately that they're in Danganronpa.
This is nothing but your own assumption. The game says otherwise.

MOOOOOODS

I'm inclined to believe the interviews are real, because Kaede's "I have no faith in humanity" personality fits how she acts in the prologue, where she talk about how rotten people are for letting her get kidnapped. She never talks like this throughout the rest of the game

prove me wrong

>This is nothing but your own assumption. The game says otherwise.
How? Where does it say otherwise?

The two truths we're presented with are incompatible with the interviews. The interviews are either a lie, the characters' memories were wiped pre-prologue, or the literal Team Danganronpa are terrible writers. I'm confident that these are the only possibilities.
Characters who were enthusiastic enough about Dangranronpa to invent characterizations, Ultimate Talents (Shuichi), and murders (Kaito) would immediately recognize that they're in Danganronpa (the show) based on the fact that they're 16 high school students collected in a high school with the windows barred - and mini Monokumas literally referring to a "script".

It's fanfiction. The fact that it doesn't exist anywhere in the game already proves it wrong.

But wasn't Tsumugi lying about them wanting to participate since she lied about what happened in the prologue?

I hate that people hate Tsumugi when she is one of my favorite DR characters.

Maybe they weren't aware that the process involved them becoming brain-washed, because their answers such as "I don't have a talent, just a skill that I devote myself to" still remains consistent. Maybe they were just really stupid, slow high school students who were surprised to be chased around by giant robots

>How? Where does it say otherwise?
In the prologue, where they didn't recognize they were on Danganronpa.

I want her to rape me if that counts as anything.

If Danganronpa is actually a show, it's likely that it's a "scripted" reality TV show. Imagine influencing human agents to act according to a script with pre-planted motives.
The NPCs have scripted dialogue, which is why the Monokubs reference going off-script by appearing in the Exisals initially. The 15 non-Mastermind students are implanted with personalities and memories, but aren't strictly scripted.

What are you talking about? wWe see then not recognise danganronpa. I mean if you got a bunch of die hard fans of danganronpa who see monokubs and looks like they're in the game. Wouldn't they be excited?

Also If you're talking about the flashback with then being excited, that's fake. We saw them being confused in the prologue while Tusmugi says they weren't.
The memory shows them with their new Shsl clothes and we know that happened straight before they got their first memories by the monokubs. We never saw them excited.
It's fake user.

Everything isn't scripted, she lied to make them cower into voting hope or despair. She even says that she's glad Keebo survived, meaning she ultimately couldn't control his fate

I think you're misinterpreting my argument. I'm arguing that they SHOULD have recognized that they're in Danganronpa if the interviews are real, not that they did. Only Rantaro, as a survivor, recognizes that they're in a killing game. Which goes back to:
>The two truths we're presented with are incompatible with the interviews. The interviews are either a lie, the characters' memories were wiped pre-prologue, or the literal Team Danganronpa are terrible writers. I'm confident that these are the only possibilities.

What are you talking about?
Are you saying since the game doesn't address it means it's fake automatically?
There's no fucking reason to believe that tsumugi has cosplaypox. Its a mystery game, she has no concrete reason to make you believe she has cosplaypox other than her word since she proved she can easily fake it.

That doesn't excuse the fact that Monokuma effectively appears in front of them, to their faces, and starts referencing a show. Wouldn't you recognize a character identical to the mascot of the show you supposedly auditioned for?

Plus there's the fact that Rantaro literally knows it's a killing game, and another character comments on not knowing what's going on when he references it.
The evidence is that they're given every opportunity to recognize Dangranronpa, and they don't.

>I'm arguing that they SHOULD have recognized that they're in Danganronpa if the interviews are real,
This is where I'm saying you're wrong. You assume that if they are fans, that they would instantly recognize it. But the game shows that even though they were fans, they didn't recognize it until the Monokubs said "killing game". You can say that you think they should have realized sooner, but that's just your own opinion. The writers felt differently.

She was a wallpaper, and everytime she showed up (Which were like maybe 12 in the whole game) was only to make an obscure anime reference.

She should've been an interesting character then

TV show thing has got to be true. Otherwise
A. Saihara an co. convincing the audience to stop Danganronpa
B. Kiibo acting as an audience surrogate (and then going against Tsumugi's will)
C. Rantarou's survivor perk and shit
won't make any sort of sense.

The beginning also has the characters remembering they got kidnapped and seeing no one lifting a finger to help despite their cries, so the bored and rotten world thing Tsumugi talks about is also likely true. The characters also briefly realize who the Monokubs are before their personalities get wiped (Kaede says something along the lines of "Wait, you're the Monokubs?!") when the latter introduce themselves in the prologue for the first time, so they must have heard about them from somewhere.

Most of the stuff Tsumugi said were probably the truth, however up for question is whether the characters joined the game willingly (not likely considering the pre-brainwashing intro directly conflicts with the application videos + Saihara ponders this as well) and whether the previous games' events also actually happened after all (considering what Saihara says at the end).

>they didn't recognize it until the Monokubs said "killing game

Not him but that's where you're wrong.
They didn't recognise it at all. They were all confused.
Pay attention to the prolouge.

They got their SHSL clothes then were immediately mind wiped.
Anything after, like in the flash back where tsumugi said they wated to be in the game was probably from the brainwashing or a hoax entirely.

Kaede is both fictional and real though. Tsumugi's Cospox could've as well been explained with her getting an allergic reaction from wearing clothes other people have just worn.

>They didn't recognize it until the Monokubs said "killing game".
They say killing game AFTER their memories have been implanted by the flashback lights. I thought it was self-evident, but I'm referring to the prologue before the first flashback light. No one recognizes Danganronpa at that point, EXCEPT Rantaro who clearly knows he's in a killing game.
Also note that Rantaro asks what a killing game "means" when Monokuma shows up in the (post-memory wipe) prologue.

How do I make this as clear as possible:
The characters SHOULD recognize that they're in Danganronpa in the initial half of the prologue, but they DON'T (except Rantaro).
The characters SHOULDN'T recognize that they're in Danganronpa in the latter half of the prologue, and they don't (INCLUDING Rantaro).

v2 exists kodaka confirmed that Rantarou was in it.

>seeing no one lifting a finger to help despite their cries, so the bored and rotten world thing Tsumugi talks about is also likely true

Kaede says she was shocked nobody helped her.
Meaning it isn't normal, otherwise why would you point that out?

More than likely it was staged. The people around her were in on the kidnapping and pretended to act normal so she'd feel secure .
It's proved by the book the kidnapper was holding.

>he characters also briefly realize who the Monokubs are before their personalities get wiped (Kaede says something along the lines of "Wait, you're the Monokubs?!") when the latter introduce themselves in the prologue for the first time, so they must have heard about them from somewhere.

Nobody other than Rantarou and Kaede reacted. I don't think it's world famous like she said.
I mean wouldn't you recognised a pikachu re-skin? It's likely a video game that Tsumugi made a clone of, that's how they recognised it.

>How do I make this as clear as possible:
>The characters SHOULD recognize that they're in Danganronpa in the initial half of the prologue, but they DON'T (except Rantaro).
This is where your argument falls apart. This is just how you think the scene should have gone. But your opinion on what you think should have happened is irrelevant to what actually happened. The fact is, they were fans of the game, but they didn't immediately recognize it. That's how the story was written. You may not like it, but you can't say that the writers are wrong about their own story because you think it should be different.

Kaede recognizes it's DR, because she keeps saying things like "If you call yourselves the Monokubs then this is-" before being cut off. We just don't hear the other characters contribute their thoughts on the subject, aside from expressing confusion over the kubs talking about their Ultimate Hunt and forgotten talents backstory, which they wouldn't understand. It's just obfuscation. No one literally ever says "I don't know what these robots are or what an ultimate talent is"

>v2 exists kodaka confirmed that Rantarou was in it.
I'm not doubting you but got a source? I don't usually follow dev tweets.

So assuming the audition tapes were faked does that also mean the recording Rantaro also had in his lab was also faked? Because that also doesn't match up with prologue

>(Kaede says something along the lines of "Wait, you're the Monokubs?!")
I don't think this is true, but I checked regardless. Here's what I found:

>In the first half of the prologue, pre-flashback light
Multiple characters react with confusion to the Monokubs. Kaito, Tsumugi, and Maki don't recognize them at all. Ryoma says, "Huh, they're calling themselves the Monokubs," and Kaede reacts with confusion:
>Moving stuffed animals? Monokubs?
>"Wait! You guys call yourselves... the Monokubs?"
I wouldn't call that recognition, but it's ambiguous. I'd argue that they don't recognize them. In contrast, Rantaro immediately recognizes them and the killing game.

>In the second half of the prologue, post-flashback light
Kaede literally says she's never seen the Monokubs before when they appear to both her and Shuichi in the classroom where they wake up. This is self-explanatory because she's had her memory wiped.

I don't think the audition tapes are fake because Kaede is a bitch in hers and is a bitch in the prologue.

There's no way to know. If the audition tapes are fakes then it's safe to assume Rantaro's video is also fake, but if the audition tapes are real then Rantaro's video is also real. But, since it was never made clear I guess we'll never know unless a direct sequel is made. It's all just speculation from here

BTW here's the book in case people doubt it was a stage kidnapping.
They got people who they thought were somewhat talented or skilled but not an ultimate per say.

It's only the characters' personalities and backstories that are scripted. Everything else happens naturally, although the mastermind can influence things and has knowledge of everything that happens.

>Kaito, Tsumugi, and Maki don't recognize them at all
Doesn't Monokuma say somewhere in the game how the Monokubs are the reason the season's ratings are higher? Doesn't this imply the Monokubs may be a new addition to the season? Also, Kaede's reaction can be interpreted as her finally understanding the situation, rather than being confused as to what's happening

She lied in pretty much everything (She even lied about her Underwear color).

The audition taped were probably faked, since if they wanted to participate in the Killing games for what purpose they were kidnaped.

I like to think that the Cospox is total bullshit because is pretty stupid even by Danganronpa standards.

The show being scripted is very likely a lie since why then Tsumugi freaked out about Kaede's plan failing? You would think that she would have a better backup plan in case that the convulted machine plan failed, or that she would have prepared a better mechanism to kill Rantaro.

No, she's just fictional. Kaede is a character being played by whoever Kaede was before the brainwashing. This is why she was able to cosplay all the characters from DR1 and 2

My image had bad quality
If you look closely at the original pic you can see the pages of the book

That's not an opinion at all, it's a fact about the basic structure of the story. The fact that the characters do not recognize Danganronpa at that point in the story is an obvious, obvious plot point intentionally made by the writers. The fact that the Monokubs directly reference both the flashback lights and the literal the script for Danganronpa (the show) proves this point.
The writers set up the fact that Danganronpa is (potentially) a reality TV series from the first chapter, yet you think they'd intentionally omit these characters - who are portrayed as huge fans of that TV series - logically recognizing it?

Are you actually retarded?

Thats the back of the seat of the car though.

What about monomi, shirokuma, kurokuma?
Every danganronpa had a new monokuma.
Even giant and different version of monokuma.

The back seat is really dark blue. Look behind Kaede and what kaede is sitting on.
The blook is just completely black.
Once again you cann see the pages.

>Book
user I have to give you that you are
A)Pretty Creative
B)Stoned as Fuck

My mistake, I was wrong, she says this. Pic. related.

So Kaede and Rantaro recognize that they're in Danganronpa, but all the other characters don't. It still seems very weird that they wouldn't immediately recognize that they're in the famous reality TV show they interviewed for, but obviously this isn't the whole truth.

Nigga, that's the back of the front seat of the car. Look closely. The light part.

You're calling me retarded? Your argument is that the plot of the game is wrong because the characters didn't act the way you wanted them to act.
>The fact that the characters do not recognize Danganronpa at that point in the story is an obvious, obvious plot point intentionally made by the writers
>you think they'd intentionally omit these characters - who are portrayed as huge fans of that TV series - logically recognizing it?
YES, because otherwise they would be spoiling the plot of the entire game in the first ten minutes.

>If the audition tapes are fakes then it's safe to assume Rantaro's video is also fake, but if the audition tapes are real then Rantaro's video is also real
Thats not true at all, the Auditions can be fake and the Video Real.
We don't know Rantaro's motives to be in another Killing game, he just says "He wanted that killing game", but we don't really know why he wanted to be in it.

You're probably right considering Kaede recognizes them:

My best take on the prologue is that they obfuscate information and that it's unreliable, as evidenced by the fact that they show you something that the player doesn't see during Chap 6 even though it should have occurred during the segment. So any refusal to acknowledge the Monokubs being apart of Danganronpa is simply the writers intentionally leaving it out to keep the player in the dark

>asspull

Don't use words you don't know.

this isn't even the right question. faggots who ask questions like this should be lynched. you're the same retards who finished MGS2 and begged Kojima to "explain everything" which resulted in the abortion that is MGS4 (we're lucky he made MGS3 in the interim).

not every story exists as a beautiful work of internal consistency. sometimes one can read between the lines and try and find the intended meaning of a work, instead of obsessing over unnecessary details.

MGS2 and DRV3 both actively try and make the player stop thinking about the universe portrayed within as a necessarily believable universe, inviting players to read into the intent behind the broad strokes of the storyline presented instead. however, Sup Forums is all brainlets and the idea that there's more to storytelling than soap opera writing is literally completely beyond their comprehension

>"we don't know how much the main villain's words about the outside world were true" again
>"hope is not necessarily good" for the umpteenth time as well
So deep.

I can love this ending (like I did) and still want to understand more about the internal logic of it as well. Chill.

user we all know that the point wasn't what was real or not, but that fiction can change the world. I don't see any harm in speculating what really happened though? You are not very fun.

>hope is not necessarily good" for the umpteenth time as well
Where did you even get this interpretation from? Did I somehow miss this throughout all three games? I'm pretty sure the moral of all the games is finding and creating meaning in a meaningless, hopeless situation.

Here's a better example
Why is the left side of the book have so much light?
The car doesn't have that much light on it if you look on the left side of the kidnapper.

Kaede's seat's perspective doesn't go in that direction.
It's also a dark blue.
Also why would his right hand be like that?
Try putting your fist like that. It's like you're holding something.
Also if you zoom in
you can see the pages.

I think it's that the themes of DRV3 aren't interesting. Hotline Miami had a similar intent, but the themes are ingrained in the gameplay in an engrossing way: walking back to the car after completing a level, giving the player character nonsensical motives through the phonecalls, etc. It all points to the way we desire violence when we condemn it, and enacts those themes through player agency.
With Danganronpa, you're subjected to an over-long lecture delivered in the final few hours of the game. "Why would you want this? Why do you want to watch despair?" And the epilogue of the game actively encourages players to consider what is and isn't true, both by having Shuichi explicitly state it, and the very fact that the characters survive.

tl;dr DRV3 has shitty themes we've all seen through games like Spec Ops: The Line and Hotline Miami; so it's more interesting to discuss the logical construction of the world Kodaka's created.

Also, I'll link this because it's relevant: tanoshimi.xyz/2017/02/16/do-not-touch-my-beautiful-boy-saihara/

just played through the series in the course of the last two months, r8 my tastes