Is this the current most JUST genre?

Is this the current most JUST genre?

Is it too late to fix it or is it unfixable?

Feels more and more unfixable. I think final fantasy online did a decent job but I personally never played it.

I don't think it's dead as there's plenty of them in development and enough demand, but there's no good MMOs atm. I guess wow classic will be good in ~2019 but it won't save MMOs because it won't do anything new. I'm waiting for Pantheon to see if it's still possible to do real MMOs nowadays, and for Ascent:Infinite Realm to know if they can still innovate.

i doubt pantheon is ever coming out, sadly.

How so? The devs aren't making progress?
Fuck I was kinda interested in this one

>final fantasy
>doing a good job fixing MMOs
FF14 is literally THE most casual, carebear MMO ever made, literally the opposite of everything an MMO should be. Even the devs said that's it's meant to be a more 'casual' experience.

i havent seen a any progress for months now, might be me just being blind of course but it seems dead

Not as JUST as real time strategy.

No, RTS is

mmo's are for gaming what females are for comedy.

you feel like there's no reason they can't have good gameplay but they just don't.

>make game that you think is good
>don't try to appeal to literally everyone
>don't design a game around attracting tens of millions of players
>don't invest financially into the expectation that you'll be the second WoW

There is nothing wrong with MMORPGs. The fault lies within both developers and players. WoW made everyone think that MMOs have to be this bombastic and huge thing that millions want to play at the same time.
I've played MMOs with a couple of hundred people and had great fun.

WoW was the MMO holocaust. Not because it ruined the concept, but it ruined the expectations and ideas people connect with the genre.

By not appealing to everyone you only get a small clutch of autists that barely (or can't even) pay the production and maintenance costs of a current title.

The only games I've played with a few hundred people were old games that exist solely on server fees, since the game itself can be reproduced through emulation (P1999, Genesis/Uthgard, Nasomi, etc.

You can't just wish your idea into existence. That's what Kikestarter is for, and we have a few games of those "on the way" like CU, Pantheon and others.

You got Spellforce 3 which looks pretty interesting. That's rts right?

>>don't design a game around attracting tens of millions of players
>>don't invest financially into the expectation that you'll be the second WoW
You forgot to read those two lines.

My dude, that was the line I was responding to. Continual updates come at a cost. You think someone is going to work for peanuts on a big game update/expansion that literally 500 people play (and only because it's free)?

They need to stop with the shitty combat and gameplay keep over from Runsescape/Wow

Make MMO combat be more like Dragons Dogma, Grand Theft Auto, Dark Souls, depending on the setting, whatever but make it more responsive and enemies less about cool down abilities

Everyone has a good internet connection these days so no need for turn based combat moves pretending to be real time combat

Make the first few hours of the game actually enjoyable and not turn off new players, throw in fun abilities and gear progression earlier to hook players instead of making them go through tedious boring tutorial sections with nothing fun to do

>big game update/expansion
>(and only because it's free)
How am I supposed to argue against someone who makes blind assumptions that suit his argument?
A small game can have small updates and a tiny user-base. As long as it pays for itself and the people making it, it doesn't matter. This is the "has to be bombastic" mentality I was talking about.

Let's be real here, it doesn't matter what you make, WoW is going to kill your mmo in sales, population, and popularity. Your dream mmo is dead before it was even though up.

>Make MMO combat be more like Dragons Dogma, Grand Theft Auto, Dark Souls, depending on the setting, whatever but make it more responsive and enemies less about cool down abilities
kys

ah yes dragons dogma combat but with 5x of the grind
ebin
>b-but they could reduce the grind
and at that point they could just make a singleplayer rpg
would be 1:1 similar too

I just want old mabinogi back

>Warhammer Online done properly.

>Plays like Dragons Dogma.
>The world is just the Empire.
>3 factions
>Chaos: (Beastmen, Norsca)
>Empire: (Imperial Elves, Imperial Dwarves, Imperial Humans)
>Destruction: (Skaven, Orcs.)
>Entire world is broken into capturable zones similar to Planetside, by capturing Zones you open up new PvE quests and resources in that area for your faction.
>Career system from WHFRP
>Major PVE quests taken from WHFRP like Enemy Within campaign.
>World is filled with large roaming dangerous mobs like Dragons Dogma that you can take down with a group for rare items/resources/quests etc
>Guilds can pool resources to "hire" major beasts, units of NPC's etc to help during PvP. Say you hire a Giant, your guild can summon the Giant into combat during a large PVP RVR battle and your guild can keep doing this until the giant is slain.

Done, fixed Warhammer Online, too bad a good Warhammer Online will never be made and EA fucked the chance of ever getting one forever.

You can make an MMO without trying to compete with WoW. You can be successful without being the biggest player.

There's no audience for MMOs anymore. It's kind of strange playing a MMO when there's not a lot of underage players.

>Dragon's Dogma gameplay in a MMO
>or any kind of action gameplay
Yeah, that sounds awesome and not at all like it will be even more singleplayer than modern MMOs that at least require you to work as a team in dungeons

I'm pretty sure this is just cause most modern MMOs attempt to appeal to grown ups so much.
Like what the fuck are you doing? That's on par with advertising diapers for adults, of course there's going to be some parse market of shitters and fetishists, but these people are shooting way off goal.

The children who start playing your game at the start of it have the biggest potential to be people who still play said game after 10 years, hell, you can look at shit like Mabinogi, Maplestory, Ragnarok, DFO, Lineage or any gook MMO and you'll notice that most of the population is the population who has been playing the games for fucking decades now.

user you do realize DD Online is a thing and the definitive MMO experience right now alongside Phantasy Star Online 2 and MonHun?

You just sound like a shitter eith loe standards and bad reflexes. Enjoy your static animations loser.

>2017
>younger gamers have the attention span of a goldfish
>mmorpg

The majority of people playing these games at this point are 30-40 year olds that got into them years ago.

Whats REALLY dead is the social mmos genre especially ones aimed for kids. Every mmo coming out is some pve, pvp raid focused shit. Rip sweet prince

>definitive MMO experience
>Phantasy Star Online 2

i have to admit it was good for a while

Good luck getting your retarded pawns to stagger an infected behemoth.

too bad all of those games you mentioned are under the MOM genre instead of MMO, which further proves that this genre should die

I'd like a VR Mabinogi before it dies though, the load based system would work very well with VR considering it means you won't be swinging your arms around like a wet noodle 24/7 but taking strategic stances and positions for most melee combat.

>PSO2
>definitive MMO experience
1 100% Triboost has been sent to your visiphone

>DD Online
>Phantasy Star Online 2
>definitive MMO experience
I bet for the Japanese, they truly do get that BR BR HEUHUE experience that we've all come to know and love.

Seed by by by by by by by by by Klang

Thats not the point. All MMOs are like that they just have an open hub where you can kill boarasses together. Any raid or dungeon is instanced and essentially the same.

The point was that DD combat and MonHun work in teams and require co-operation, which the one I replied to stated did not.

> come to a discussion on why X game mechanics an MMO good or not
> b-but thirdworlders!

Thirdworlders ruin any game, not relevant to the discussion.

There hasn't been a real MMO since Ultima Online.

You had semi-MMO's like Everquest and vanilla MMO, but post-Vanilla WoW, and every other MMO, has been a glorified Diablo 3 clone except an overworld to level.

Any game that claims to be an MMO but its main activity is not in the overworld doesn't deserve to be called that.

Jails were instanced in Ultima, making Ultima not an actual MMO :^]

Not where the main activity was, most of it was in the overworld, as was the economy, and you had housing.

All of this wasn't instanced.

Describe "main activity" here, as WoW main activity couldn't have been raiding considering you couldn't possibly spend even close to half of your gametime raiding.

How the fuck is EQ a semi-MMO. It was the truest form of one.

I put my faith in Classic WoW, as the return to a more hardcore gameplay may set the ground for other MMO's as there will be a more vocal community. The problem nowadays is mmo's copying MODERN WoW 'cause they think there is no money on older style mmo's.

You can't do something like this on an MMO server. Combat like Dragons Dogma, Dark Souls require pitch perfect precision which is hard to do on a server with 20,000 people on it. It'll never happen, not for a very long time. The genre is inherently flawed.

Classic WoW was what started the whole casualization process. World of Warcraft took the then-modern formulas and clubbed them over the head so they were simple and compact for retards, while setting it in a tried and tested franchise (Warcraft) for good measure. That anybody thinks the original game is "hardcore" really doesn't know what hardcore is.

With most popular multiplayer games being 1 click to get the full game experience no one is going to spend hours leveling up a character. No one is going to spend even 1 hour killing shit to get .5% stronger.

You can't say it isn't way more harcore than current. Maybe I'll use another term, like: It's more accessible. And yet, it still has a need for community. I think that's the middle term that most other mmo's should base themselves on.