Sonic

Who likes these mediocre platformers? How is this better than Super Mario World?

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World was mediocre.

>How is this better than Super Mario World?

It's not and never has been. Controls have always been ass and level design is contradictory to its purpose of going fast.

Sonic gameplay has always been mediocre to shit with amazing music.

>DUDE SONIC GAMES ARE JUST HOLD RIGHT TO WIN LMAO
>WTF DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T JUST HOLD RIGHT TO WIN? THIS GAME IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED

Sonic was never good. Sonic Mania came out with an 8/10 but still had issues preventing it from even being GOTY.
Sonic Mania is supposed to be how Sonic 1 was from the start, but it's far to late to fix him now after 25 years.

3D World was mediocre. Fixed it for you.

do you just do this all day?

the autists speak for themselves.

low IQ posts

Sonic 3 > SMW2 > Sonic 2 > SMW > Sonic 1

>Yoshi's island is under Sonic 2
>World is under Sonic 3
No wonder Sonic Forces sold well, shit taste senpai.

Mario> Pokemon> Kirby>>>>>>>>>Crash >>>> All Classic Sonic games.

No.world was mediocre.
Gimmick dino that didn't serve any real purpose.
No new poweups except a feather
Less level themes than predecessor
Every level has the same exact music only with slight variations.
Boring bonus rounds

Why the fuck is Pokemon there, it's not even a platformer.

...

might just be that 2d mario has been milked dry, but I prefer the classic sonics now just because it's way more fresh and different from everything else.

How is Crash better than classic Sonic? I mean, I'm not particularly fond of either of them, but atleast there is a certain vision to Sonic. There is a skill ceiling to it, it has level design with thought put into it.

Crash is just random obstacles to jump over without any pacing or design.

>crash only cared about pushing graphics
>naughty dog still makes hallway games that just push graphics
huh I guess they haven't changed too much since then

I still get dread from listening to Metropolis zone. Most bullshit enemies ever

>>naughty dog still makes hallway games that just push graphics

The J&D games were open world/sandbox.

Chances are, people who say the former don't say the latter, and vice versa.

>No new poweups except a feather
>Gimmick dino that didn't serve any real purpose.
The purpose of Yoshi is that it's a new powerup other than the feather.

>That many signs before Crash
>Pokemon
Holy shit, fuck off.

How is Crash good? Gameplay wise it's about as interesting as Banana Prince for the NES.

Crash has tighter controls than any sonic game. Not as many annoying/shitty characters, and they don't reuse the same fucking stages over and over again.

Also Coco.

Are you talking about 3D sonic or the original Mega Drive

Mario, Crash, and Pokemon was good since their very first games. They had the most impact in video game history. Sonic was not good since Sonic 1. Fuck off.

Its a fucking 2D platform in 3D, what is there even to hate.

how is Kirby or Pokemon better then Crash

meant for

>Sonic 1-3K
>Tight controls
It took them 25 years to make the classic games actually fun. Sonic being a tight platformer is just a meme. He controls slipperier than the floor at the taco bell bathroom.

>Sonic was not good since Sonic 1
>literally one of the worst 2D Sonics and worst out of the original games

I was refering to the annoying characters and resusing stages part

It's fast that automatically means it's better.
Forget the awful uninspired level design you can go really fast bro.

>tight controls
Do you even play any other platformers? Most great platformers don't have tight controls, because a sense of momentum is important, especially with how platforming levels usually are designed. They give the gameplay pacing.
Examples for good platformers that don't have a sense of momentum is stuff like Contra or Megaman, because in those games you have to shoot/dodge projectiles at the same time as jumping and running. If you have a Megaman game without projectiles where you kill enemies by jumping on them, it would be a pretty fucking shitty game, and that is exactly what Crash feels like.

>annoying/shitty characters
Granted. But the classic Sonic games didn't have... most of them.

>reusing stages
Who the fuck cares about aesthetics in a platforming game over the actual level design? Also, the first level is often the only good thing in a sonic game, so there is that.

>Coco
Your fap bait waifu does not improve the quality of a game.

2D Sonic is literally better than 2D Mario.

Hell, every 2D platformer is superior to Mario at this point.

Rayman, DK, Kirby, Megaman, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Wario, Castlevania and majority of those series surpassed Mario.

3D Mario is what Mario shines at and there hasn't been a series or game that did 3D platformers better than Mario

>Its a fucking 2D platform in 3D, what is there even to hate.
It helps no one to be reductive. You should try to get a more nuanced outlook on game design.

True but to be fair 3D Mario is partially only the best because most 3D platformers got phased out during the PS2/Gamecube era. For a while, Mario and Sonic were the only ones doing 3D platformers aside from literally who or tie-in games and Sonic's sucked so Mario got the crown by default.

Now that 3D platformers are sort of kind of coming back, I'm curious if Mario's crown will eventually be contested. I mean A Hat in Time already comes close. It's not better than Odyssey but it came closer than anything else before. If Sonic Utopia ever becomes an actual fully complete game, that could also usurp the crown.

Mario is still the king of good level design. The art style and characters and all that funk may be the blandest most boring shit in the world, Mairo has generally really good level design. Only thing of that list that may have surpassed peak 2D Mario might be DKC and Shovel Knight.
And I'm saying this as someone who vastly prefers Megaman to Mario.

>Shantae
Come on, man, I like her, but her games are only good at best.

A Hat in Time got movement perfectly but I feel like Level design was weak in certain parts.

However for a small budget 3D platformer, it's great.

PlayStation needs to bring back more platformers and stop riding on Indies and Crash's dick.

Jak and Sly Cooper need new games for fuck sakes.

ITT: brainlets who can't into 2d sonics.
AAA garbage made new generations dumber.
I still have to beat thunderforce IV and those little shits cry about some of the easiest genesis games out there.
There is no justice.

Yeah but I feel like what other games do with their level designs, abilities and control makes them stronger compared to Mario.

It ain't aesthetic, it's more of the things they do. Like Mario reached his peaked in World/3 and those NSMB games have slight stronger,level design but don't change it enough aside from New power ups.

Playstation is all about mature games with deep stories now. But since Crash came back and it seems like they're testing the waters the same way with the Medievil remake, it feels like they're slowly experimenting and seeing if people want their older more silly franchises back. Jak, Sly, and especially Ape Escape all need to come back.

>these games want you to go fast but they always stop you from going fast sonic's gameplay doesn't work wtf
This argument is always how you spot low IQ brainlets.

>Yeah but I feel like what other games do with their level designs, abilities and control makes them stronger compared to Mario.
In what way? Just by the virtue of experimenting? Of course experimenting is important, but it's not the same as quality.

I suppose it comes down to if you are bored by Mario's style, and I can see that, but if you only play one Mario game every once in a while rather than marathoning them, I don't see why you really would be.

>sonic knob slobbers consider Sonic to be a "thinking man's" game

The delusion of these "people'

No one past elementary school darling. Sonic 3K failed the rival era because it had some bad zones, questionable level designs, and took little skill to beat.

>don't have tight controls, because a sense of momentum is important
bullshit. Name 3 platformers that did this.

Agreed. You got the simple gameplay that makes it so accessible yet the level design fails after the first stage because Sonic is terrible at precise platforming.
Why do you think Mania removed the platforming lava rocks from Lava Reef? Or the Death Egg gimmicks? Or the Flying Battery weights? They knew platforming killed the sense of "fast" that people love.

>Mario 3
>Sonic
>Shovel Knight

I enjoy Sonic Mania more than any other 2D Mario, because
>It actually has interesting and unique level themes (Even though most of them are recycled from previous games)
>it has a way cooler artstyle (Its pixel art god-tier)
>better enemy designs
>WAY better bosses
>fucking orgasmic music (Tee Lopes is a legend)
>great level design and pacing - it knows when to stop and show you "new" shit
>multiple characters with different routes and levels
>a good amount of content outside of the main game (Blue Spheres, Versus mode, medal hunting, Mean Bean Machine etc.)
The only issues I have with the game is the easy difficulty and the recycling of old zones. (Which is Iizuka's fault.) I'm just not that big of a fan of 2D Mario. 64, Sunshine, Galaxy and Odyssey is where the series really shines, imo.

Your reading comprehension is low like your IQ.
Sonic has always been easy shit.
You are just even shittier at action games.

>bullshit. Name 3 platformers that did this.
Super Mario Bros, Yoshi's Island, and I suppose I could name Sonic as the most extreme example.

Shovel Knight has pretty tight controls. You can turn on the spot without any acceleration. But that's fine, because Shovel Knight, like Megaman, is also about combat WHILE platforming.

Sonic was made for low IQ brainlets. Picking up rings was so stupid because the game can't punish you unless it used crushing objects or pits which really kills the level design with artificial difficulty.
Compare Megaman 2, Mario World, Kirby's Adventure and Rayman 1 back then. Sonic was a babies first platformer.

>it's too easy then it becomes hard so it's artificial difficulty

Sonic is a low skill floor but a high skill ceiling. Low IQ brainlets can't comprehend why it has a high skill ceiling though.

>the game can't punish you unless it used crushing objects or pits
just like Mario, Kirby, Rayman, and Megaman?

soniczone0.com/games/sonic2/downloads/s2-mz-act3map.png
lol

>sonic babbies literally using the terms skill floor and ceiling for their shit franchise

Laughable.

Mario had tight controls that didn't overshadow the momentum platforming. You could beat the whole game without the run button so I don't see your point.
>Sonic
Fails at tight platforming in exchange for momentum, yet Marble Zone was made for characters like Mario and still be a good stage.

Looks like TF2 is a shit game amirite

>You could beat the whole game without the run button so I don't see your point.
What Mario game can you beat without the run button? Also, Mario has weight even without running in SMB.

>Fails at tight platforming
False
Sonic 1 is the best classic game for having brilliant platforming design and rewarding you for learning the layout of the level
Of course fucking hentai faggots like you wouldnt know this because you're too busy shoving hentai quills up your fucking ass

>Enemies who throw shit at you before you see them
>The cogs crush you making another cheap death
>Slippery platforming on screws and still dodging star bullets
>Big bottomless pit that anyone could run past the platform and fall to their doom

Gee, what fair level designs that complement momentum and fair difficulty. Now compare that the Grandmaster galaxy which uses all your skills and experience and fuck off.

This world is a huge step down from 3

>Sonic 1 fags
Not even once.

>lmao just learn the level after dying to the cheap shit

Sonic fans mang.

>>>>>Big bottomless pit that anyone could run past the platform and fall to their doom
Did you even play the game

Ask /vr/. I'm more interested in how to improve the formula.

*I see you mean at the very end of the level but seriously you should see it rolling in

>What Mario game can you beat without the run button?
Every single one of them. You don't even need to roll in Odyssey to beat the game.

>Mario has weight even without running in SMB
It's called a platformer. That's the fucking point.

I bet you hate game like DKC, Rayman and Megaman, since this is common in every 90's game

Read the fucking map you moron. By the time you reach to the platform that you should dare I say, stop and wait, you are running at full speed and fall off because of slippery controls.
And I played the original box screen Sonic 2 on the megadrive, you don't see that or the poorly designed enemies coming. They want you to be careful in a Sonic game.

>Every single one of them.
I think there is usually a jump you can't pull off without running. There is in the original SMB anyway, which was the given example.
Haven't played Odyssey.

>It's called a platformer. That's the fucking point.
Yeah, it was my point that good platformers usually have momentum based physics unless they focus on combat while platforming. And the fact that ND doesn't understand that is why Crash isn't a good platformer.

>modern morans
not even once

You can't beat SMB1,2,3,W, yoshi island, NSMBU and Luigi U without running though.

And if you're going with 3D you can't beat any mario game just by only walking

Are you a 70 years old with no reflexes anymore?
I died once there in my life just because I wanted to check the area.
Hating on the mega mack would be less embarassing.

I like how people make threads just to shit talk the Sonic games

/vr/, we don't want you here

On the contrary, I love DKC and Mega Man games. Because they won't punish you for going fast in those games, nor do they encourage it.

They're much better paced in terms of gameplay flow.

Wrong again dumbass. Learn the difference between cheap deaths and good design. The faster you are, the less reaction time you'll get to an obstacle.

Did you know in Galaxy you can't run. Also 64 3DLand and Odyssey doesn't have a run button. You never tried to beat the game casually so you don't know.

For some reason some fags take very seriously their ineptitude at 2d sonic, and need to assert that the game is shit, not them.

>Mega muck
Changing goal posts again. I'm talking about Metropolis' map. Chemical plant wasn't that good of a stage to begin with. I don't know why they try to bring it back or get obsessed into turning Sonic into a pinball and calling it good level design.

I like some of the modern titles, but 2 and Mania are my favourites. Nice try, though.
Jesus christ, how many times do people have to say this: Going fast is not the point in Sonic games. Going fast is the REWARD for learning the level layouts or by just having good reflexes.

64, 3D Land and Odyssey do have run buttons though. The fact that you're assuming this from me means you don't have any real argument so you're calling me out for something I don't do.

If you made a Sonic game that was almost entirely hold right to win levels, you'll get Sonic Forces, which was considered shit because of its level design.

>punish you for going fast
git gud
if they did otherwise you'd just be squealing "PRESS RIGHT TO WIN"

Fuck off sonygro

Sonic only moves fast when he's in a ball in he's practically invulnerable at that point, when he's running he's just as fast as any other game character relatively. Every other platfromer doesn't have something like a spinball that lets you go through enemies, so yeah in a game like DKC or Megaman you'll get hit still.

>All Sonic games are gud
>Gud reflexes make the game perfect

Fuck no. Sonic games by design were always awful. Just challenge would've worked better with health bars instead of rings. And by design, the game punishing you for going fast and not reacting enough is the definition of a running QTE game.

Most Sonic games have just turned into "hold x to win". Like the grating dodgy boostshit with enemies shamelessly placed in a bowling pin formation ad nauseum.

>Jesus christ, how many times do people have to say this: Going fast is not the point in Sonic games

Right? It's not like the adverts indicated that at all.

youtu.be/FJXT2OTFERo

you heard it here first.
all fighting games are QTE games

By your logic, every game played at high speeds is a qte
It's time to go to bed grandpa

Trick question, sweetie. 64 didn't have a run button. You're just talking out of your ass and never played the original 64.

>Going fast is the REWARD for learning the level layouts or by just having good reflexes.

Exactly on point.

>the design is bad because there are obstacles that stop you from achieving your goal
Congrats user. You described what a "challenge" is.

It's not, of course.

Childhood is idolizing Sanic, Mario and Megaman.

Adulthood is realizing Shinobi, Donkey Kong, and Ghosts 'n Goblins made so much more sense.

Go back to your movies

strategywiki.org/wiki/Super_Mario_64/Controls

>The run button was added due to the limitations of the d-pad in that it cannot alter movement speed between walking and running.

I like how you use sweetie trying to act like you've won an argument you set up yourself, now try beating 64 without running

Its not, sonic is a meme for people on the spectrum.
I played 2 and 3 out if curiosity, it's mediocre.

>how is this better than one of the greatest and most renown 2D platformers ever made
gee user i don't know
sonic isn't literally perfect but it's still great, especially after 1