Japan is a more collective society but produces more authorial, evocative video games with unique character

Japan is a more collective society but produces more authorial, evocative video games with unique character

America is a highly individualistic society but produces more bland, focus tested video games for a broad audience

I’ve always wondered why this is the case. How come? America would never make something like Dark Souls, SMT or Xenoblade Chronicles.

Quite easy to disprove those statements.

H-Games
Indie games

I guess you would have a point if you only look at one section of the gaming industry, rather than the whole picture. Japan produces as much trash as the west.

both are simply pandering to general societal desire and wish fulfillment

both desire the opposite of how they live

SotC is overrated garbage.

no

Because in America people want to be the face of a trend or any popular idea. So a lot of people latche on to the same generic game and try their (not very) unique take on it. The Japs are just weird and don't care what other people think

Japs are more willing to let the director actually be the director.

With western devs way more people think they know better and the game ends up with a messy vision because everyone wants a say in the matter.

Japanese are respressed on average and their resentment and expression seeps into their work.

Americans aren’t really individualists anymore, at least not the current generation. They believe they are, but they’re more concerned about other people liking them and not upsetting anyone, so their work tends to be vanilla even in the way it tries to upset people.

Almost this. American productions pander to individualism on a personal level where a character is self inserted and created, where Japan tries to achieve this via character development where multiple characters are present and change over time.

I’m not sure you understand what proving or disproving means.

Two edge cases don’t disprove anything. It’s also ironic that Cave Story, literally the god of indie games, that in many ways elevated the entire movement is a Japanese game produced by a single Japanese man.

Unique on the inside vs. on the outside.
Murrica is obsessed with outside displays "individualism" through stupid shit like rainbow colored hair, expressing your quirkiness by Nerdy (TM) hobbies, "thinking different" by buying apple products. This makes for a culture of freaks and geeks which still end up producing boring autistic shit.
Japs culture on the other hand is VERY concious of one person having "multiple faces": one they display at work, one they display with family, etc. This allows them to cultivate auteurs while still fitting them in within the corporate enviroment.

Then look at the japanese mobage market with all its authorial, evocative design and unique characters. Or the plethora of copy paste VN that released by the minute and are as bland as the newest CoD. How about the next monster hunter ripoff? Uniqueness all around.

Just face it, you cherrypick shit. Most of the garbage japan produces never sees the light of day here in the first place.

Americans are willing to make unique and trippy shit, but as soon as the budget gets too big and a major publisher steps in, you can say goodbye to creativity.

america needs a self insert photorealistic jesus mcsuperman to play as in games

Jap corporations are more willing to tolerate auteurs like Suda 51 and Fumito Ueda. In contrast to, say, EA, who is just trying to squeeze as much money as possible from the greatest number of people.

>the west dominates actually respectful mediums like film, music, art, literature etc.
>japan dominates in manchild mediums like anime and videogames
>therefore Japan has its best writers on vidya while it's virgin manchildren competing with them in the west

BUT, why is this the case?

Because in Japan you're expected to do the most work possible for a project while in America you're expected to only do as much as need be done. Remember though that stress suicide rates are enormous in Japan, and that yearly released grinding RPGs are their equivalent of yearly release FPS.

It's also important to understand that Japan is a much smaller country with much higher urban population density; low-budget games have been able to release through self-publishing much more successfully than in America.

Japan is always getting blown up or crushed under a tidal wave, they're fucked. Tortured artists make better art.

>America is a highly individualistic society
The reality is that most people, Americans or Japanese, are collective normies.

But user, it's not the individualism that leads to boring shit, it's the need for companies to appeal to as broad a range of individuals as possible to make as much money as possible. When you have a wide variety of individuals in a society, you have to make your product more bland to appeal to them all at least equally. If US consumers would stop being idiots and buying bland big budget titles, they'd have publishers push for varieties of more smaller, niche titles instead of one yearly flavor-of-the-month blockbuster.

You can see this apparent paradox in animation too. In America, animation movies are only known by their studio, while in Japan they are typically known by their director.

>Or the plethora of copy paste VN that released by the minute and are as bland as the newest CoD.
And do you think those are focus tested and mass market-oriented?

>le manchild bogeyman meme

100 individuals who would all rather be doing their own shit vs
99 unquestioning but talented slaves under 1 authorial voice

Western executives basically force their devs to dumb down and monetize everything in order to make themselves richer. Japan only escapes via it being easier to make smaller budget titles and because they have a culture of auteur-ship that is not present in the West for a number of factors (turn-over is very high, Western people resent being lorded over by a single person, executives hate having someone they can't dispose of on a whim).

Basically it's the same shit that's happened in Hollywood, only without the mitigating factors of unions and guilds that creative types can use to bludgeon the rich financiers into letting them do what the fuck they want.

>and that yearly released grinding RPGs are their equivalent of yearly release FPS.
I get what you're saying with this.
But let's be real. Even their uninspired light RPGs still have more variety at the very least their looks and presentation than the yearly shooters.

I would rather work under a talented director I respect and try to learn from them.

Japs also like anime and wish they could live their highschool and middleschool life forever. Americans like big bang theory and want to be seen as adults and be done with school and with that their childish ambitions. It makes sense that japs are more willing to buy something outlandish and not based on reality

I used to play japanese games because I was a huge weeb. These days I mostly only play them because their games are free of hamfisted agendas and politicial messages that feel out of place and forced.

>99 unquestioning but talented slaves under 1 authorial voice
The director may have the final word but it doesn't mean everyone else are just "slaves" who play no creative role.

Western game devs seem to be controlled by their marketing departments instead of the people who make games.

The more interesting question would be why games cinematic garbage games do comparably terrible in Japan while they're the all time highlights in America.

I remember how it was going around that in MGS4, Kojima wanted to kill Otacon and Snake at the end, but his team forced him out of it.

But JRPGs are top sellers in japan.

Western CEOs don't want to have to share power and be forced to negotiate with guys like Kojima, even if it ends up creating historical games in the process.

I have a feeling it's the lack of arcade culture in the West that Japan stemmed from, where you want to play a game many times over and get good at it, while in the West the general vibe seems to be a "play once, and done forever" type of thing. I can't deny that sentiment exists on both sides but the difference in the kind of popular games from both spheres kinda makes me think that way.

true

Devs really should union up. I can't imagine any other way for games to get better..

>The Japs are just weird and don't care what other people think

You couldn't be more wrong.

But I don't blame you, the whole thread including OP is just regurgitated clichés of what you saw on some documentaries or during your trip to Roppongi and Akihabra.

Publishers are truly the source of all evil in modern gaming so that might help.

General corporate structure is surprisingly similar everywhere around the world. There's a boss, and chances are high that they want to make money. They minimize risk and losses by controlling their underlings and directing them towards a common goal. The cultural difference in Japan is that there is a drive to do your best to avoid shame and dishonor, as opposed to being fired. Firing someone is actually shame on the company. Whereas in the US and EU, there's a drive for bonuses and promotions, and specific criteria set by the boss must be met to achieve those things. Not doing your job perfectly means your boss has an excuse for firing you if you fail to be politically correct in any situation, which is of utmost importance to a society that prizes individualism - everyone is special and unique, and capable of being uniquely offended, so be PC, amicable, and bland all the time!

Japanese devs overall have more freedom in design choices than those in the US and EU because they don't have a stifling political climate to surrender to. They will make offensive choices and stand by them because they like what they did, and so does everyone else in the office - and they know their fans will like it because they think like their own fans.

>h-games don't have unique characters
the good ones do

Not just gaming, music too.

>video games
>art
Bruh, look at this dude...

>saying this while the current catalog is dominated by bland, mass produced weebshit

America values money, Japan values the artist

Even their more straight forward RPGs typically have games in how to most effectively break them.
You could be silly and misrepresent them as "Lel you're just mashing confirm over and over!" but by the end of the day they've got far more gameplay than whatever you'd call Uncharted or The Last of Us.

N-no user! That w-would be communism!
Yes! It would be communism! We can't have that! That's evil!

Now shut up, listen to papa EA and mama Activision and do as you're told!
Don't you dare diminish the authority of the publishers! You aren't a filthy communist are you!?

Weebshit by definition is something not made by the Japanese.

>Japan's games are for the most part turboshit, particularly in terms of generic artstyle and playstyle
>American games are for the most part turboshit particularly in appearance and gameplay
>Indie games are for the most part turboshit but vary in artstyle and gameplay and """"""gameplay"""""""
>elitists and fanboys will say that their favorite produces better games despite the vast majority of games from anywhere being complete fucking shit

>Japan
>"Oh, director mister Nagasaki shinjiwatermellonoto wishes us to create character fitting this description." "GET TO WORK FILTHY UNDERLINGS"

>The West
>"I think we should make the character a black woman with an afro. What about you, snivelling beta cuck soyboys who've never been this close to a real woman before?" "Whatever you say. Can I sniff your chair?"

Basically the collectivist japanese ideals lend themselves well to strict hierarchies of authority. If the director says this is how it is, it's how it is. Because he's the director.

In the West everyone is led to believe their ideas are special or as valuable as anyone elses by the individualistic freedoms our dominance hierarchies are based upon.

>In America, animation movies are only known by their studio, while in Japan they are typically known by their director.

>it's a Bluth film, you know you're in for some weird shit
>it's a Chuck Jones cartoon / film, everything is fluffy and squiggly
>it's a Tartakovsky cartoon, hope you like "that style"
>it's a McCracken cartoon, prepare for Faustian overtones

Disney has a studio in Japan and everything is released under "Disney Japan" there, no director highlights. It really depends on the studio and fame of the director.

>Bluth
>Jones
>relevant in the current disney-owned market
>Tartakovsky making anything good since Clone Wars
>McCracken not completely worthless

I think the point is that there are less bland japanese games than western games, not that there aren’t any.

How do you reckon this would actually help devs? Unless the Union is run by someone with Publisher connections that can rival the big three it'd be ducking useless, and if someone had those connections they'd have no incentive to unionize. Are you retarded?

You answered your own question.
A group of collective mindless drones (japanese) can work towards a goal without muddying it up individually.
A group of special snowflakes (americans) all piss into the same cup and call it a game.

What's it matter in the end though? Japanese games, and japan itself are dying. American's are too obsessed with political correctness to produce anything different from the usual AAA trash and pixel shit.

We need another crash.

>I think we should make the character a black woman with an afro. What about you, snivelling beta cuck soyboys who've never been this close to a real woman before?
>Oh, well I think-
>No. Nobody cares what you think, fuckwad. She's gonna be black and she don't need no man because marketing says that's who she's gonna be. You? You aren't paid to think. Sit the fuck down and get back to work. Where the fuck's my coffee?

>Because in Japan you're expected to do the most work possible for a project while in America you're expected to only do as much as need be done.
Reminded me of this.

There are maybe a few exceptions, mostly long in the past and not very well known outside of animation enthusiasts. What I said is still true. Animation films are rarely associated with an individual, even if they are highly successful ones. Only the studio is known.

Television is a little different and the showrunners can become known (like they can in live action television).

Not really. I'm sure that the general lack of attempts at photorealism make Jap media feel fresher, but for the most part you have 1 dominant visual style for entire franchises that doesn't tend to vary a lot.

Look at Dragon Quest, they're still using a softened Akira Toriyama late 80s style even though he has changed his own style significantly, Falcon games have one universal anime style, etc. And that's without talking about reused assets.

Name a successful Japanese animation director that doesnt have their shit air at 2AM.

I've always wondered how video games even sell in Japan. Isn't Japan a society that basically views humans as cogs in the machine, working is your sole worth, output is above well being, and wasting any time on things you enjoy or fun is considered shameful?

I think that's just the capitalist mindset in general.

I think you have it confused with Puritan Christian American values, but if I can trust what I've read then Japan was heavily influenced by this work culture from American during their occupation of Japan after World War 2

Opinions, user. Their works are still identified by the people who made those styles famous if they put their names on it. You'd be surprised to know that in this society of individualism the US cherishes so much, there is a stigma against putting your name on your own work and being anything more than humble about your successes. Yet, in Japan, bragging and shows of power are encouraged and expected.

See any Miyazaki interview. It is all about him, his successes, and how he thinks. The other animators are trash by comparison and not worth any mention. Then watch a Pixar studio interview and notice the studio head give complements to the vast talent they employ, too many to name and all address themselves as "we" and as equals even if their jobs are not as objectively important to the whole.

Makoto Shinkai, but that literally only changed this year. Aside from Ghibli you'd be be right.

I am once again talking about films, not television. But the principle applies to television too.

I'd say because of the sheer mass of jap games that there are more bland games

Really this.

Americans are individualistic on a very surface level tho.

There's Shinkai and Ghibli, but there's also at least Satoshi Kon, Mamoru Oshii, Mamoru Hosoda, Katsuhiro Outomo and Hideaki Anno. They're known as directors the same way live action film directors are. In America there's just the studio.

I mean just compare the differences in typical locations.
I don't quite know how many worn and torn broken down grey factories I've ran through in shooters.

Like. Destiny is probably one of the western shooters that does different locations and actually appear to put some effort in making other areas different from others beyond just what cover is available. But even then they somehow manage to make most of it look similar any way.

>he hasn't watch anything from Kurosawa

I dunno, unless you’re talking about mobileshit/indie games I don’t see it. Guess you’d have a case with some of the recent nintendo games.

I think that's the very reason video games and cartoons and toys and everything else are so fucking huge in Japan relative to their population. Life is pretty fucking bleak and no fun allowed so escapism is a treasure.

Because America isn't actually individualistic. It's all based around
>muh money
>muh job and marketing

>Life is pretty fucking bleak and no fun allowed
Not every Japanese person is a salaryman and not every company has the same culture. And not everyone is unhappy being a salaryman.

Americans just tell themselves they're individualistic when really they aren't

>not everyone is unhappy being a salaryman.
How do they justify it?

My friend's boyfriend works as an accountant for some mobile game developer in Tokyo. He thinks it's a blast, because he gets to meet famous game devs occasionally and drink with his co-workers like 3 nights a week.

How do most americans justify being wageslaves?

>people aren't individuals
Watch yourself on that edge my dude.

You're saying collective-individualist but you really mean hierarchical-egalitarian.

I agree, Underage Panty Quest XVII really spoke to me.

>Underage Panty Quest XVII
lol so randumb just like all jap games xD

>America would never make something like Dark Souls
>Inspired by Fighting Fantasy universe (written by guys who went on to make warhammer)
>draws extremely heavily from western dungeon crawl design, both in atmosphere and level design
come the fuck on man
>America is a highly individualistic society but produces more bland, focus tested video games for a broad audience
80s-00s western vidya is exponentially more experimental and gritty than anything Japan has ever made. Where is the Japanese Alpha Centauri? Where is the Japanese Legacy of Kain? Where is the Japanese Command and Conquer? Oh right, Japan doesn't innovate, they make games exactly the way you are excusing the West of doing, except that's only AAA in the west, while in Japan everything that isn't AAA either does the same shit or is garbage.

Because if you don't make money you can't live?

>Where is the Japanese Alpha Centauri? Where is the Japanese Legacy of Kain? Where is the Japanese Command and Conquer?
This works both ways. There are many things that were made in Japan but not in America.

>Oh right, Japan doesn't innovate
>in Japan everything that isn't AAA either does the same shit or is garbage
In what parallel universe?

>80s-00s western vidya is exponentially more experimental and gritty than anything Japan has ever made. Where is the Japanese Alpha Centauri? Where is the Japanese Legacy of Kain? Where is the Japanese Command and Conquer? Oh right, Japan doesn't innovate, they make games exactly the way you are excusing the West of doing
Yeah, games like LSD, Germs, and Mizzurna never existed.

You've got to be real fucking retarded to think that the west innovated more than Japan.

weeb games are hot garbage, I don't even bother pirating them

Even if there are weeb games made in America, they are a vanishingly small minority.

>comparing the average American game to niche Jap games
Amazing.

>America is a highly individualistic society
lmfao
Cults of personality were invented here. You can barely tell the difference between two average citizens if you aren't looking straight at them.

That's because Japanese society creates a longing for being an individual free from society

Whereas American society creates a longing for individuals to feel like they can connect to any other human being

People who rise to creative positions in less creative conditions might feel like they need to guard their creations more closely.

Why is Sup Forums full of EOPs that never lived in Japan yet act like experts on it?

>Yeah, games like LSD, Germs, and Mizzurna never existed.
>surely if I list these obscure games that had no impact on the industry whatsoever he won't be able to counter me!
How the fuck is this innovative? LSD and Germs are weird tech demos. Mizzurna is a murder mystery that flopped. I mean fuck, was it ever even re-released in Japan? I don't think even they give a fuck. No, Japan gave us wagglan, casual games, and waifushit. That is their legacy. They have done NOTHING else.

That is because to be a true individual you need to be rooted in a collective to begin with. All those great individuals we worship in our western canon? All set to a backdrop of religious, social or political uniformity.

Hence why the west is no longer capable of producing true artistic genius, because we're all the same in our lack of common bonds.

Why do expats insist on everyone making the same terrible life choices as them?

I dunno. Being English teachers or low level programmers must make the salty.