Complex games

What games have really complex and esoteric mechanics?

SaGa series as a whole, basically.

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How so also in before dorf

Any fighting game

The Last Remnant.

Dwarf Fortress

Knights in the Nightmare

How is SHENZHEN I/O.

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The fuck is this and how do I play it

Dominions

Dominions.
It's a glorious clusterfuck of a wargame grand strategy sorta thing.
You can play as a fucking rock.

First thing that came to mind as well.

>HOW MANY GENRES CAN WE FIT INTO ONE GAME?

The Void.

Not him, but SaGa is pretty much the Dorf Fort of JRPGs, in terms of mechanical complexity it's possibly one of the heaviest RPG franchises in general, with some literal black magic like Unlimited, which was so goddamn complex barely anyone managed to learn how to play the game and it bombed because people were too stupid to understand it.

>SaGa is pretty much the Dorf Fort of JRPGs
It is not, and I hate fake hyping assholes like you.

Then name a series that is more complex or rich in mechanics.
I also hope you understand how figures of speech work.

Dominions 5.
Fuck you it was my turn.

>DUDE DORF FORT
Name one, literally one complex mechanic in DF

No, magma isn't complex

Get fucked, blessrusher.

Look at that goalpost fucking move. SaGa is nothing like Dwarf Fortress, and you know it. Even if I gave you that example, it doesn't make SaGa a fucking DF. What do you get out of misleading people? Do you get paid for it? Do you get enjoyment out of it? Fucking hell.

vpl

So you do not understand how figures of speech work.

Anybody? that huge manual scared me

Expert Sphere grid from FFX

Nigga please.

Nigga are you autistic. That guy clearly wasn't comparing them literally.

One day I'll actually get around to learn Dom4, but it is not this day

wish more games used a mechanic like XCX. Anyone who studied network theory would get a boner seeing this.

It's all about Dominions 5 now, nigga.
REAL TIME COMBAT AND COOL NEW BLESSES

You're joking, right?

>Vic2
>Factorio
>Hoi3
>Distant Worlds
>dorf
>""""""""""""complex"""""""""""""
Didn't play the rest, but I still think chess is more difficult.

Nigger, that isn't complex, all you are looking at here is essentially pic related
It's nothing more than a laundry list of 1 designated activity per hex.

it's quite fun, don't get scared i have no idea coding and so far i'm having a blast

t. uneducated idiot

>REAL TIME COMBAT
Who wanted that?

It's pretty neat. It makes first-striking much less important and a lot of the more niche spells more useful thanks to lower cast times.
No more turn 1 multi-earthquake acid-storm army wipes without your mages having a chance to do anything anymore.

I think user meant XCX as a whole.
Or probe optimization, but definitely not segment recon.

Carnage Heart

my man

>HURRDURR IM RETARDED

Typical smashfag

>really want to play this
>forced vn-like dialogues
>tutorials at every step
>decide I don't want to play it anymore

>Last Remnant
>complex
Just grind until healers get revive skills, then just tank until remnant skill is ready.

Real time as in the magic and arrows and cqc takes place at the same time.

>grind

He is kinda right, what you are basically doing is saying "SaGa is the Dark Souls of JRPGs".
It's not descriptive at all and only shows you don't know anything about Dwarf Fortress.

Why so many of these look like complete fucking ass visually?

Bioshock Infinite

>graphicsfag

they were made for advanced autism, and at that point you either give no fucks and deal with it or give just enough fucks to make a personal graphics mod

because they could not look like complete fucking ass in any other way.

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Well, you're wrong. Some of those aren't so complicated, but Factorio, Distant Worlds and Dwarf Fortress certainly are.

Look at all these butthurt STEMfags. They couldn't recognise good art is it shat on their face.
>is it too much to ask that a science fiction writer know sciiieeennce?
Have fun reading Asimov, pleb.

This isn't to imply that Bioshock: Infinite is anything but unfiltered sewage.

They are absolutely right tough, you can't have science-fiction without the science part.
One of the reasons Bioshock Infinite sucks so much is because they use "quantum mechanics" as an abbreviation for magic. Even the setting, you know why Columbia floats? Because of quantum particles of course! I ain't gonna explain shit.

>you can't have science-fiction without the science part
Yes you fucking can. See: Book of the New Sun. Science is used for literary effect, not for STEMlord masturbation.

Magic is fine.

>you can't have science-fiction without the science part

The World Ends With You.
Not in the sense that it's hard, but it has a lot of mechanics that make your numbers change.

> Science is used for literary effect, not for STEMlord masturbation.
You know, I have always tried to sum this concept up in few words but I have always failed, I think I'll steal this sentence.

Name one scientific thing about Dune.

To be fair, it's part of the world of midday setting, and authors do explain things sometimes, not to mention that they were physicists themselves.

Laser guns.

people will say Dwarf Fortress but it's not that hard

Laser guns are not scientific.

Than why US government spends billions on developing one?

Currently playing Spacechem and I'm having the time of my life, can't wait to finish it and get into Tis 100.

Theres a lot of science stuff in the background wich is explained in the prologue, like the raise and fall of AI, the evolution of fremen and lots of biology, especially about Sandworms.
Also most things have an explanation at the very least so Dune does the science part very well.

Legend of Mana

Magic is fine, just don't treat science like it's magic.
Magic and science can even co-exist in the same setting, see Shadowrun or M&M.

>just don't treat science like it's magic.
Why on Earth not?

Nice, you can now call people names to avoid having to actually debate!
You can now be a politician.

>rhetorical language is now ad-hominem

>Dominions 5

Holy shit, I never even knew it was in development.

Please tell me you can still blanket the world in undead while blocking the sun and making everyone age a year in a week

>like the raise and fall of AI
Science!
>the evolution of fremen and lots of biology
This is legit science, but also (as you say) extremely muted. It's pretty much just that one appendix.
>most things have an explanation at the very least
if that's your definition of good writing...lol

They announced it and released it in like the same month (last month).

What other new features does it have besides real time action? Are there any new fun races?

I do think there's some new nations. The big change, though, is that you can design your own blesses. There's also a host of smaller changes I haven't been able to experience because I don't have a PC any more. brb killing myself

Because by definition they are different things and work in different ways.
If science doesn't make sense then it's bullshit.
If magic is uncreative and unispired then it's boring.
At the end science without an explanation just looks like magic anyway, maybe thats what Levine wanted but it didn't work because he made it so Elizabeth knew how the system works and even explain it so anyone who paid attention realized when they broke their own rules.
Also you can leave some science things unexplained, and you obviously have to, otherwise why aren't you practicing eugenics and building AI right now? But there is a limit, you have to keep your setting believable.

>Because by definition they are different things and work in different ways.
Check out this intellectually barren pleb. The contrast between the two, and your combination of them, is the entire point.
>If science doesn't make sense then it's bullshit.
lol why
>If magic is uncreative and unispired then it's boring.
Well yeah, those words are practically synonymous.
>At the end science without an explanation just looks like magic anyway
gg wp
>maybe thats what Levine wanted but it didn't work because
He's a hack who can't write for shit.
>you have to keep your setting believable.
No. By and large, there's no such thing as rules when it comes to good writing.

DF is only complex due to its annoying HUD. The game plays relatively straightforward, pretty much just a slightly more complex Rimworld with several z levels.

The game is impressive as fuck though, with amazing world and history creator.

AI War is one of my favorite games of all time and is incredibly complex. Tons of variety too when you count all the expansions/modes/ai types

>DF is only complex due to its annoying HUD
I don't know who you're trying to impress, but it's certainly complicated. If you mean "it's not as complicated as people say it is", you're going to have to understand that doesn't mean it's not complicated.

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>La-Mulana
>Complex
It's one of the best games ever made, but it's hardly complicated. It's just a very dense metroidvania.

UFO isn't that hard although managing items across different bases could a little more streamlined.

Genius of Sappheiros had fairly involved status effect mechanics with own stats called IND abd RES governing their effectiveness. For example you could prevent enemies from dispelling the debuffs you put on them by buffing their RES before. It has a couple other interesting mechanics like shielding, divine barrier and formation bonuses. Some of those are inspired by the Romancing SaGa games. On top of all that the enemy encounter design is fairly challenging and you can run into boss-tier random encounters in the very first stage, not boring you with the RPG typical rat killing phase.

DF is honestly about as complicated as taking a shit

The mechanics involved in that process are absurdly complicated. You don't need a horse anus to see that.

>don't treat science like it's magic

*tips fedora*

*unsheaths katana*

I know about the third law of Clarke, it's part of why I'm arguing that. If you present something as science but go too far without providing an explanation then you just end up with magic. Just like Bioshock Infinite does, everything is supposed to be about quantum mechanics but they break their own rules so many times that it ends up feeling like magic.
On a side note, theres a party member in Shadowrun Hong Kong who actually holds this belief, that the magic that exists in the setting is just very advanced technology from an unknown source.

Literally not an argument

>TIS-100
>complex

It's just dumbed down assembly
Spacechem gave me a fucking run for my money though, that shit just hits a fucking difficulty WALL out of nowhere

>they break their own rules so many times that it ends up feeling like magic
Thats not magic, just asspulls and shit writing. Good magic is consistent, unless its unpredictability is the point of having it in the setting.

I didn't mean to insult good magic systems, I was thinking more about the "lol I ain't gonna explain shit" kind of magic.

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