Is it possible to get into jrpgs if you've played only wrpgs before...

Is it possible to get into jrpgs if you've played only wrpgs before? Especially if you've played what's considered the best from the genre like Fallout games, Deus Ex, VtMB or Planescape. I know lots of people just don't really find jrpgs that impressive.

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Sure, why not

jrpgs are just dumbed down mechanically wrpgs, but can make up for it in neat settings and characters

Not really.
Most jrpgs have really dull combat and dialogue only a tween could love.

No because you'd have developed what is commonly called "good taste" in the process.

You've gotta go in with a different mindset.
WRPGs are meant to make you think, while JRPGs are meant to make you feel.
It's gay shit in theory but in practice it's pretty good, I recommend you start with FF12 - it's a great middle ground between western and eastern influences, and has good voice acting and dialogue.

It's like trying to get into Harry Potter after reading Tolkien, Wolfe, and Pratchett. Might work if you're a manchild and don't mind eating feces from time to time

It's not possible to get into JRPGs if you're over 16 years old

Yes, but you should think of it as a different genre altogether, as they have less emphasis on player choices affecting the world and more on things like combat, character building and following a linear story. Liking WRPG doesn't mean you can't like RTS or action games, right? There's a lot of variety in the genre too, so you might not enjoy Final Fantasy but end up liking SMT or Tales.

I wouldn't listen to because I think FF12 is dogshit but what do I know, I'm the guy who loves FFVIII.

>dull combat
>compared to the shitfest that is planescape

>WRPGs are meant to make you think, while JRPGs are meant to make you feel.
What do you by this exactly? I mean Planescape: Torment was one of the most feels heavy game I've ever played. Even more than some of the japanese games I have managed to play like Majora's Mask, Shadow of the Colossus or Chrono Trigger.

Most of the gameplay in Torment is done through interactive dialogues and those are never dull.

Yeah, just start with chrono trigger,ff4-6-7 or some SMT game
but don't expect much, they have cool settings and characters but combat and writing are extremely dumbed down from wrpgs

Sure, stuff like SaGa might be right up your alley, though most of the better JRPGs are JP only stuff, other than those you're mostly left with casual garbage.
Don't believe all the memeshit that has been posted in this thread, there are a lot of really good JRPGs with amazing systems out there.

Also for god's sake avoid FF, Chrono Trigger, Xenoshit and all that other trash because it will really give a horrible idea of Japanese RPGs and what they can do.

...

JRPGs are great games to play when your mind is jelly. They are very colorful, don't require a lot of thought, and are easy. They're casual games to relax with.

It means nothing. All games makes you 'feel' including fucking pacman.

Planescape basically is a JRPG, complete with oversized weapons, waifus, and ridiculous spell animations:
youtube.com/watch?v=WcGC2byVmoA
youtube.com/watch?v=G_bgE5Rq8xo
The credits literally list FF games an the source of inspiration

earthbound is fine tough

My favorite wrpgs were the top down action rpgs that had co op play. I wish there were jrpgs similar to these games.

>They are very colorful, don't require a lot of thought, and are easy. They're casual games to relax with.
Outside of the colorful part, you can say the same of every WRPG bar a small handful of exception.
>I wish there were jrpgs similar to these games.
There's many of those, Dungeon Explorer is probably the classic game for that, though it's more arcade-y and basically japanese Gauntlet with a bit more RPG elements.

It's basically a JRPG but with good writing, characters and a unique, consistent and atmospheric setting without any kind of teenage angst and shitty shounen artstyle.

>top down action rpgs that had co op play
Seiken Densetsu?

Sure, you just focus on gameplay instead of story

>good writing
>Torment
The reason it's called Torment is because you have to slog through some of the most inane, pseudophilosophical shit ever conceived in the medium, and put in a horribly muddy prose.
Now, if you take BG or Ultima, yeah, but Torment is an abomination, it's literally the Xenogears of WRPG, a game with horrible gameplay and horrible writing praised by a fanbase of fedorakiddies.

>Is it possible to get into jrpgs if you've played only wrpgs before?
No, it is not possible. Your RPG elitism is going to get in the way and you will not be able to handle things being different. Your ability to simply have fun is permanently damaged. I'm sorry.

Ask /vr/. They can recommend you some games from when they were good.

Try taking a deep breath before you just write the first thing that comes to your mind.

Do the same when you reply to this as well.

Japanese games have good gameplay (Okami, Zelda, Ico games, Souls), but jrpgs are the exception. Can't into stories, can't into gameplay and don't know how to merge the two properly.

>I've never actually played jrpgs

>Okami, Zelda, Ico games
>Good gameplay
>but jrpgs are the exception
>mentions Souls
Quality shitpost

Is there even wrpg with good writing? Should I just go /lit/?

Age of Decadence

Considering the OP's example of a good wrpg had trash gameplay, I'd hate to think of what you played to give you that impression

First of all, you've failed to refer to the second part. All the games I mention merge the gameplay well with the story. WRPGS do have a lot more dialogue, but it tends to be interactive, so you're not really torn out of the experience.

In Chrono Trigger you do get some responses, but they don't matter at all. In Persona you've got more of them, but you still only respond to like 2% of the dialogue and usually it's just the good answer and bad answer. There isn't really much roleplaying or just different interesting consequences depending on your choices.

>mentions Souls
You're just being contrarian.

Oh you're one of those fags that only enjoys "real roleplaying"

Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Xenosaga, Final Fantasy VI and X, Earthbound and Persona 4.

A selection of entry level trash. Woo.
Go play something that won't let you get away with attack/heal and maybe you'll understand. And I hope you didn't grind in those, because that'd really single you out as an idiot

What are you talking about? Okami, SotC or Dark Souls don't have any roleplaying. The point is that unlike jrpgs, you're practically constantly immersed in the game and aren't pulled out from the experience via lengthy exposition heavy, non-interactive cutscenes. It's the same reason I'm not a fan of The Last of US or MGS games.

Well, that's too bad for jprgs. Among wrpgs even the entry level stuff is good and it just gets better from there.

>Is there even wrpg with good writing?
Sure, as long as you don't really pretend to find the next James Joyce or something, writing is just a complement to contextualize the gameplay, take it further than that and you get atrocious slogs like Torment.
BG has entertaining characters and questlines, it's more than enough to keep you interested if you want good writing, so do other JRPGs like FM2.

Then again, after more than a decade on this site I'm pretty wary that most people who want "good writing" in a game and in RPGs just want an epic main quest storyline with a lot of pointless NPC flavour text, so it all depends on what you actually mean when you say good writing.
>All the games I mention merge the gameplay well with the story.
So you contradict yourself even more by mentioning Souls, a japanese RPG, you're even more pathetic than I thought.
>but it tends to be interactive
Which is exactly like CT in the vast majority of cases, see games being hailed as classic like Gothic or Gothic 2 when 90% of the dialogue choices are literally flavour text that doesn't even add anything to the lore, nor puts you in a different quest branch, same thing for trash like TES or Witchershit.
>There isn't really much roleplaying or just different interesting consequences depending on your choices.
If all you play is casual trash for EOPs, of course there isn't.
Take something like Zill O'll, that has more than 10 different starting points with completely different backgrounds that also lead to their unique endings in a non linear game that has hundreds of quests with variations depending on pretty much everything you do and around 60 different endings and you have everything you want from your WRPGs and more, but since you're a casual you wouldn't know this and keep parroting the same retarded shit.

>be like 14, i dont remember
>start playing planescape torment
>i loved baldur's gate and i expected something similiar but this game seems weird..
>eventualy get to the Marta the Seamstress
>she is supposedly blind, but she is inspecting you with touching you and checking you up physicaly
>bitch starts to sew you
>takes out your eye and guts while delicately creasing your muscular, scar filled body
>she puts the needle inside your skin
>suddenly start to feel a tingling sensation in my head
>first ASMR was delivered to me by accident in a game

nice

>without any kind of teenage angst

Only if you can get into a mindset that accepts JRPGs are not for roleplaying.

>you've failed to refer to the second part
because they have a problem with the first bit

Neither are WRPGs.

>So you contradict yourself even more by mentioning Souls, a japanese RPG, you're even more pathetic than I thought.
It is a lot different from the jrpgs I played. It didn't interrupt gameplay constantly.
>Which is exactly like CT in the vast majority of cases, see games being hailed as classic like Gothic or Gothic 2 when 90% of the dialogue choices are literally flavour text that doesn't even add anything to the lore, nor puts you in a different quest branch, same thing for trash like TES or Witchershit.
I never mentioned any of those, though I did like Morrowind a lot. But that's because of the rich, unique world and gameplay not the characters or story (though it did present some interesting ideas).
>EOPs
What?

If I play jrpgs do I also become an angsty, edgy boy like you?

>It's not a JRPG if I like it!

My point is that it's hard to appreciate gameplay when you can ignore 99% of it through grinding and brainlessly healing through things. Most final fantasy games have a lot of good stuff to tinker with, but most people won't see it because they'll just attack and heal until everything's dead, regardless of how much grinding they have to do to make it work.

They don't, they were just being contrarian for the sake of it in that one.

I didn't say it's not. But I can't really say I'm "into jrpgs" if I liked one. Which is the whole point of the thread. I mean even with wrpgs there were more I played that I disliked than I liked, but I still liked about a dozen of them.

>It is a lot different from the jrpgs I played.
And guess what? There's a lot more JRPGs like that, if you actually ever bothered playing them, just like there's a metric ton of trash WRPGs.
>Morrowind
>unique world and gameplay
So you don't play a lot of RPGs altogether, well that explains it, I've been talking to a complete casual all the time, and a newfag to boot.
No, but you'll probably stop being a mad little bitch and actually start enjoying things on both sides and see how this whole dispute is pointless.

>So you don't play a lot of RPGs altogether, well that explains it, I've been talking to a complete casual all the time, and a newfag to boot.
Maybe let the convincing to others, there were people in this thread that were actually sensible. You're just an annoying distraction that I find hard to treat seriously.

Try Shin Megami Tensei for snes (with the translation patches obviously)

>there were people in this thread that were actually sensible
Oh yeah, those people who parroted the same bullshit as you do, very sensible people.
Take you hurt feelings somewhere else, you've already been proven a huge hypocritical and ignorant faggot talking about shit you know nothing about, next time just shut the fuck up.

Which ones? I always had a bit of a concern that they might come off as a bit edgy like Elfen Lied or Tokyo Ghould.

First take a deep breath and refer back to this:
Next, take a deep breath again before you try to respond.

There's only two patched SMT for the SNES, SMTI and II, If... doesn't have a patch.
>I always had a bit of a concern that they might come off as a bit edgy like Elfen Lied or Tokyo Ghould.
They're as edgy as your average WRPG, though unlike a lot of WRPGs they rarely take themselves seriously.

>though unlike a lot of WRPGs they rarely take themselves seriously.
I don't get what's good about that. If the game is good it can allow itself to be taken seriously.

>I don't get what's good about that.
t. Coldsteel the Edgehog

JRPGs and WRPGs aren't alike because the core philosophy behind both stemmed from different ideas of what tabletop RPGs should be.

Japanese really like the stat-building, gameplay, dungeon crawling of Tabletop RPGs.
Westerners really like the openness, immersion and freedom of Tabletop RPGs.

See how specific the Japanese' tastes are compared to how vague the Westerners' tastes are, this is why so many JRPGs are alike whilst WRPGs tend to cover a much broader range.

This is why you see modern JRPGs that still use core concepts/mechanics in their gameplay that were established from tabletop roleplaying games, while WRPGs have mostly abandoned these core tabletop gameplay mechanics to make something more immersive.
The Japanese don't really understand roleplaying. They've made attempts to incorporate more immersive Western elements into their JRPGs recently (Souls games, Xenoblade), but the JRPGs that do take these immersive Western elements completely removes the immersion and instead make these aspects very mechanical instead. A hunger/sleep system in a WRPG is used as a means to add realism and roleplaying into the game. A hunger/sleep system in a JRPG is just another gauge or menu you need to keep an eye on.

On the topic of writing, the only JRPGs that have come close to, and arguably is equal to WRPG writing are Xenogears and Trails, but they play like very traditional JRPGs. Xenogears is just a really great story (despite being an Eva clone) and Trails' worldbuilding is so extensive that you can really only compare its depth multi-media franchises or extremely long book series'.

Did you play Ultima IV and V?

I'm a fan of both but they really aren't even close to each other

JRPGs are descendants of Dragon Quest, WRPGs are descendants of Ultima. The only reason they have anything in common is because they both share D&D somewhere far back in their bloodline

They're fundamentally completely different. They both have "RPG" in the name but in the same way that apes and monkeys are both primates

So basically your enjoyment of one will not affect your potential enjoyment of the other. However if you go into JRPGs and judge them by the standards of a WRPG, you're going to be back here in a year going "lmao u gotta be a weeb man child to like simplistic gay ass jrpg xD" like all the faggots in this thread

tl;dr JRPGs are to WRPGs as Mario 64 is to GTA and you should not take the "RPG" part of the name to mean anything other than that they both are based on stats

Dragon quest is a descendant of Ultima.

>this is why so many JRPGs are alike whilst WRPGs tend to cover a much broader range.
Hello RPGCODEX, now get out.

JRPGS are descendants of Wizardry

no lol I played final fantasy and yume nikki and gothic 1 and 2

Live combat with pause is terrible though though, turn based is much preferable and also why Fallout had the best combat system of all the classic wrpgs.

Ultima too. The top down perspective 2D JRPGs have come from it.

JRPGs are descendants of Dragon Slayer, Hydlide and Panorama Island; early 80s Japanese action RPGs.

That's only really true for the action ones.
Turn based ones have all been greatly inspired by the Llylgamyn trilogy and Ultima IV because those games were THE hot shit in Japan for RPG nerds.

Action JRPGs still influenced turn-based JRPGs.
Dragon Slayer is the first true JRPG and it's also the first action RPG, its influence is undeniable on both the turn-based and action-based genres.

Same with Ys that came out a few years later, same developers and expanded upon the groundwork that Dragon Slayer laid.

Overall a good post, but I think it's unfair to note Xeno and Trails as exceptional for their genre when most WRPG writing is not exactly the height of literature either

You've got Planescape Torment, but then you've got Fallout, Baldur's Gate, NWN, etc that are the flagships of WRPGs and though they have good character writing and dialogue it's not particularly better than the best JRPG writing (Persona, DQVIII, FFIX)

I'd say the average JRPG is worse than the average WRPG but I'd attribute that to the fact that WRPGs were an extremely niche genre even in the West whereas JRPGs were a sensation in Japan and everyone and their senpai could shit one out

Correct, DQ was an attempt to adapt Ultima, but the simplified style of DQ was distinct and became the model for its genre whereas Ultima continued to be the model of its

So it was inaccurate for me to imply the only DNA they share is D&D/Wizardry. A better way to say it would be that JRPGs branched off of Western CRPGs in their early days and went in a different direction. But I was more trying to communicate to OP that they're not even the same genre and only share a common ancestor a long time ago

>lmao u gotta be a weeb man child to like simplistic gay ass jrpg
The thing is I am a weeb. Evangelion, Cashern Sins, Lain, Utena and in general works by Gainax, Oshii, Kon or Yuasa are some of my favorite works ever. But on the other hand I don't like shounen anime, and jrpgs remind of those a lot more, not my seinen and surreal arthouse shit.

>Persona, DQVIII, FFIX
>Best JRPG writing
>JRPG is a genre

Dungeon crawlers are the purest and overall the best form of the jrpgs since they aren't bogged down by cliched stories. Prove me wrong

>The thing is I am a weeb

No that makes you a hipster.

>Prove me wrong
SMT
I don't even need to bring out the endless amount of shovelware DCs like Persona Q, Demon Gaze and all that other shit.

It depends of the game and what you are looking for really
DQ games tot his day tend to be the distilled party building, number crunching, resource management experience of early Wizardry and Ultima games, Im playing the SFC remake of DQ3 and its really charming in its simplicity
FF games put more emphasis on characters, so if you dont click with the cast of a particular entry that will color your perspective.

Series like SaGa tend to experiment a bit more with the boundaries of traditional JRPG´s, given that the series director is a huge fan of wargames (and his favorite game of all time is Ultima IV), with titles like Unlimited being closer to a board game mixed with a VN than your average DQ descendant.
Then you have more action focused series like the Tales of [insert here], the more open ended progression of Metal Max games and so on and so forth.

If you dont want a game you could literally make with RPG maker you only have to scratch the surface a bit before you encounter something like Vagrant Story or The Last Remnant

True, so there's no hipster jrpgs for people who prefer Eva, Kaiba and Angel's Egg to HxH, FMA and Dragonball? But that also aren't edgy like Mirai Nikki, Tokyo Ghoul or Elfen Lied?

Depends, how highly do you value the Power of Friendship?

SMT is a series of dungeon crawlers. Checkmate

But jrpgs are very rarely edgy and even more rarely hipster-bait.

And it always had boring, cliched stories like all other games.
What are you even checkmating you imbecile?

>guys i like anime so much guys
>so let me list off the most basic entry-level 14 year old-tier buttseinens imaginable haha
Eva/Lain/Utena/Cashern Sins are literally the Dragon Ball/Hokuto no Ken/One Piece/Jojo of seinen anime

Well, I want something that is hipster (all memes aside, I just mean something unique and a bit weird and arthouse) but not edgy, though dark in tone is fine.

You mean they're both anime?

None of them are even seinen.

Play SMT right now, avoid 4 and 4a since they are more shounen though

I don't think you know what seinen means.

Nothing wrong with that, buddy. Though I will say not ALL JRPGs are shonenshit anymore than all WRPGs are just some guy's D&D campaign

Not gonna say Persona is "arthouse" because it does have its fair share of cheese, but the character writing and imagery is all based in Freudian psychology, Tarot, demonology and religious symbolism (as is the rest of the SMT series) and other things that stuff like Utena and Evangelion use heavily. If you're OK with JRPG gameplay you really should check out either Persona 2: Innocent Sin or Persona 3 and see if you like them

I'm not sure I'd put Persona Q in there even for all of its retarded flaws.

>boring
maybe
>cliched
definitely (besides Thorman because that is the single most original thing in any jrpg)

>not recommending the best game in the series

TLR is part of the SaGa series though, and basically an elaboration of a mechanical subset of Romancing SaGa 3, I don't understand why you classify that as scratching the surface and say the main series only experiments "a bit more" when it's one of the most experimental series conceived in general when it comes to RPGs, and TLR doesn't really add a lot to the mechanical side other than the concept of Unions, even the generic command mechanics can be traced back to things like Wild Card.

There's also the various STING RPGs like Knights in the Nightmare, which fuse a lot of different genres together, Wild Card, Baroque, and many other different games that all do something unique.
All SMT are Shounen, don't kid yourself.
Even Devil Summor.

let me tell you about SaGa frontier, it aint arthouse but its weird
by the end of one of the character routes you will be a toku hero fighting a string of bosses that goes from a spider boss lady at the top of a building to the nemesis that killed your father to a mechanic ninja and ending with a giant crossbreed between mother brain and a spider mastermind.

I haven't played it so I can't recommend it

I think he means that JRPGs are about melodrama and thus focus more on the character's feelings as opposed to discussing grand ideas.

>Lists a bunch of good things
What did he mean by this?