Why hasn't any video game tried to compete with Dota 2 yet?

Why hasn't any video game tried to compete with Dota 2 yet?

There really isn't a lot of niche room for "MOBA but like the complicated one"
Maybe if Valve fucks something up incredibly bad, then that window might open, but they haven't yet.

Its has become a somewhat niche outlier of its own genre, once a game achieves that status it gathers a small die hard following that can't/won't change games definitely. Compared to other niche stuff its only this big because of Valve and some peculiarities.

Many dota players would claim that they already fucked up incredibly bad by having the most complicated multiplayer game in the world developed by a team of literally 5 people.

>that EA game
>HoTS
>that game where you could create your own items for the shop
>battlerite
???

Only people who started playing Dota during the beta would claim that.

Blizzard tried to compete, except they made a game that didn't make the losing team homicidal, and has a whole bunch of varied maps, with different objectives for each one. It's pretty good, you should try it

>WTF MY ITEM THAT +5 IS +4 NOW, DOTA IS RUINED FOREEEEEEEEEEEEEEVEEEEEEEER

it's hard and currently pubg and overwatch are eating too much of the market

i still play dota 2 occasionally but really i'm just waiting to jump ship to a new game i can spend a lot of time on

If by good you mean boring, then yeah, hots is pretty damn good.

This
>attacks, even ults do like 10% health damage at max
>move speed is turtle speed, even when "mounted"
>stuns are measured in the fractions of a second
>huge mega stuns might even be a whole second!

Blizzard tried to hard to make everything super friendly and not scary but the forgot to make it fun

The competitive league is far from boring, you've probably just queued in quick play

>non free to play game competing with a free to play game
That's not how it works.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention for the past few years, but HOTS is free to play

How are those games cited not F2P?

>playing HoTS

I'd rather play Heroes of Newerth and that game is fucking dead.

Because you can buy things that provide gameplay advantages.

Such as? The only thing you can buy in HOTS that remotely modifies gameplay is an XP booster

There's LoL, but they don't need to compete with Dota since they have 100x the player count.

>play ranked
>win and gain zero to five mmr
>lose and lose thirty to fifty mmr
>not even a decent rank

Except for hero counters

You can earn them with ingame currency also. Heaven forbid you play the game to earn items within it.

Then why do they hide their player numbers?

That's more related to the HoTS team being garbage at their job, not their business model itself. Although one could argue the balance is shit BECAUSE of the model.

Doesn't explain why one would say that about battlerite.

>Oh boy I'm new and love this game
>Enemy team picks Hero X
>Only counter is Hero Y
>No one on my team bought Hero Y
>lose automatically
Wow awesome

HOTS has the same shit problem LoL. If you don't own the counter you are at a distinct disadvantage. To argue otherwise is retarded. Stop.

>the absolute state of blizzard slurpers

>Although one could argue the balance is shit BECAUSE of the model.
It destroyed League balance too.
You gotta have every hero in a class be exactly the same other the balance goes right out the window with the inability for most players to directly counter a chosen niche hero

But then again that's more of a shitty practice from the developers, not really them not trying to compete with Dota2

If you're blaming not having a certain hero for losing, you're probably just bad

If being out-drafted isn't a strategic possibility, then your game is just bad.

Noon. It's all skill based.
Nova zera and Valeria all "counter" aba

Until they don't because the aba is actually good. Noob

Of course its possible to be out-drafted, the idea that its going to deny you any statistical chance of winning is dishonestly excusing yourself from being outplayed by claiming it was never possible to win. Absolute garbage

Until you're at the top 1% of players, drafts literally mean NOTHING. It's like saying muy Thai is better than taekwondo. Flat out wrong and completely dependent on the practitioner.

>implying that a game of Riki vs Slardar or Riki vs Zeus is not a LOT harder for the Riki regardless of the skill bracket

Sure you can outplay someone, but denying the statistical chance of losing because you can't counter a pick is silly.

But you're both fucking retarded since you're backing up pay walls, pay to win/play, and buying content.

You're either good enough to anticipate and outplay someone or not.

Noobs like you just think about only your rotation and instead of treating it like chess, you're treating it like checkers.

Noooooob

Everyone thinks they're in the top 1% of players, and min-maxes as if it even matters. Even in WoW days, players would scream about certain talents being nerfed when if it wasn't datamined, guaranteed they wouldn't have even noticed unless they were in the top 10 arena teams in the world.

Haha I've been playing hots since technical alpha. I had a third of the heroes in the game until the rewards based on account level. Guess What? I filled out almost the whole champ roster with that

League player detected
Stealth characters are just HARD countered by the two examples I gave.
Same with choosing a Brood against an Axe
Or an Alch against an AA

Counters EXIST in Dota. But in League

They don't have the luxury of an endless tap of money like Valve does with the Steam store to subsidize the game. Valve can give away all their games for free forever and not suffer for it. HOTS has the same model as every other F2P game, because they actually have to make money to pay programmers/artists/support staff.

I play league dota and hots. You're just a N O O B

You need to be 18+ to post on this webside little child.

>You're just a N O O B
>N O O B
Jesus Christ, we have a real player here

>Can't refute argument
>Focus instead on superficial word choice

That's the sign of no argument right there fellas. As soon as someone starts attacking the way you type out a message trying to show superiority is when you know you've won

What argument was offered?

League has stronger counters than Dota?
What's the argument there?

That crying a game is pay to win because you don't know how to play around counters makes you a noob. I've seen one tricks so good they are absolutely untouchable on their mains regardless of matchup. Just about effort and time you put in. Noobs usually don't like that and want to be catered to. Hence the current balancing state of online games in general OUTSIDE of fps

It's easier to complain that the game is inherently unfair that just realising you need to git gud

>I like it when I get fucked up the ass
>It's hard, but if you use lube, you can play around it

>git gud
more like "open your wallet"

Your go to argument is to badly paraphrase and compare playing a game to getting fucked in the ass.
1. You're a faggot
2.thats not what I said.
3.git gud

More like do some research, figure out ranges, cooldowns, hitboxes, and how to not be a predictable noob

In HOTS, you literally have access to one of each character class type without paying any money. Most of the differences between characters within class types are cosmetic barring a few really obvious examples like Abathur. Stop trying to justifying being shit

I've tried to get into HotS about three times for the sake of just playing a new game and every time I realize its just not very fun

>Most of the differences between characters within class types are cosmetic

wow the game sounds really exciting when you put it like that

Look, what you're saying is that being forced into a disadvantage by greedy Jew tactics is actually GOOD because it's an opportunity to improve as a player.

But imagine this. Get this. Hold on to your fucking pants because I'm going to blow your mind.
What if two players have the same skill and on paid money and one did not.
Who would win? Neither can "git gud" because they're at the same level of skill.
Who wins more?
Nigger, the one who paid more.

QED P2W

If your characters are exactly the same in each class then your game is boring as fuck TBQH PHAM

You're being disingenuous if you don't acknowledge all MOBAs are like this to some extent. How many different variations of support can designers design. The answer is enough to keep you interested, but ultimately they're all fairly similiar.

The reason I mentioned this is that claiming buying one particular support over another is suddenly going to make you not lose is transparently rationalizing being bad at the game.

The first step to not being bad is acknowledging you're bad instead of blaming the game.

No whoever wins is the person who plays better in those specific circumstances. Your skill level is dynamic. Not static. You're not going to play the best you can play every game. Blaming it on p2w is just another way to shift the blame from yourself and avoid being responsible for your own shortcomings in that particular game. G e t G u d

You're avoiding my scenario
Matchmaking pulled a miracle and put two teams who are actually perfectly matched. 100% the same skill.
Who wins? The one who paid more and therefore can outdraft or the one who paid less and literally cannot?

That's the entire reason why MOBAs can't compete with Dota 2.

>Most of the differences between characters within class types are cosmetic barring a few really obvious examples
Wow, thanks for making me not want to play HOTS, faggot.
I guess I'll switch to league then.

>You're being disingenuous if you don't acknowledge all MOBAs are like this to some extent.

all the bad ones

>implying League isn't actually worse
At least HotS has "Specialists" who break class barriers intentionally.

If you want a game where class types are merely suggestions and ignored as much as possible, there's only one.

You must not understand what dynamic and static mean.
I hope you didn't go to college, because if so you wasted your money. The scenario you describe will never happen because the nature of matchmaking is chaotic and not all that accurate.

I'd rather play league. It has prettier skins for my non characters/waifus.

>give a hypothetical scenario
>even say it must be a miracle
>NO IT CAN NEVER EXIST, SO I REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT REEEEE
That's you.
That's how you sound

All MOBAs are like this. Ranged DPS has nukes, some flavour moves, gap creators. Melee has gap closers, melee nukes. Also:
>implying you were going to play it anyway

>What is dota

>using hypothetical situations with NO data behind it
>trying to use said hypothetical non-existent data in an argument
At what point did anything I say give you the impression of TEE?

I simply said you can't use non-existent unquantifiable data in an argument because it's not real.

You're the REE here. A REEtard

Dota isn't a MOBA.

Dota has a massive amount of cookie-cutter generic mages, melee. The original character set are all blatantly ripped off Blizzard characters anyway, so of course they share a lot in common.

what the fuck is this sperg even trying to argue here

>Ranged DPS has nukes
eblade drow meta when?

>data behind a hypothetical
What?
What the fuck are you arguing?
Are you literally unable to understand what a hypothetical is?

Name two heroes in dota that are similar to each other.

That hots is perfectly balanced and that it's impossible to get outdrafted because every hero is pretty much the same.

Eblade Drow with Diffusal
Oh shit they nerfed Diff
Eblade Drow with... Eul's?

what is it then?

Not real. Therefore not admissible in a real argument.
>hypothetically if I shit gold I'd destroy the world's economy
Oh wait that's fucking impossible and never will happen so why am I worrying myself with possible ramifications to a fake scenario

yeah and it's boring because of it, congrats

Just buy more eblades.

A guy above was arguing that its possible to lose the game before its started, and the only way to win is to pay blizzard for counter heroes, therefore the game is pay2win. I was countering by suggesting he git gud and stop blaming the game for being terrible.

Lion and Shaman

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying unless you're in the top 1% of players draft doesn't matter. Get good and stop seeing what you want to see. Trying seeing the truth

Hypotheticals aren't impossible by their very nature

Looks I won this argument. You don't even own a dictionary.
Laugh Out Loud. At you

>top 1% can't play around a hero's weaknesses
>complete retards can do it easily
Pfffft

In Dota, you don't need to be a 1% to be affected by drafts.
There are some seriously HARD counters in Dota
Like Oracle or Dazzle against Legion

But having a perfectly matched game is impossible because the nature of matchmaking is flawed due to factors not taken in by said matchmaking. People get placed above and below their MMR all of the time. You either climb or you dont. It's not because of p2w. It's solely based on if you got gud

They are not interchangeable at all. Shadow Shaman is a pusher, lane threat, and inconsistent single target disabler. Lion destroys people who rely on mana and potentially turns fights with an AoE stun.

>403356007
they are similar in that they are int, usually relegated to the support role, have 0 cast delay hex, and a second stun ability

Doesn't Drow have a 50% cooldown reduction on EVERYTHING? Or was it just abilities?

Imagine if she could actually perma ghost someone. She can already perma-slow + perma-silence.

So you're saying it's impossible for a match to be decided by who owns which heroes?
That outdrafting is never a factor to throw off a nearly balanced game towards one team?

even though it's true they both have an ability called hex, the numbers on each ability are different- shaman's hex lasts 3.5 seconds and lion's lasts 4. lion's hex also has the option to become a small aoe hex late in the game at level 25. aside from hex, the two heroes have completely different abilities and serve different roles in a draft

plenty of heroes have the same spell. both lion and nyx share a lion stun. chaos knight's single target stun is just a more wacky version of venge's stun. monkey king's stun is earthshaker's without the temporary immovable terrain. however, all of these heroes are different enough to not be the same or similar hero. they fill different niches.

the biggest slight on the game i can think of as an avid player of dota is that there are usually heroes who are the best at that one niche per patch. it makes picking heroes other than those heroes feel bad, because you are less likely to win.

Funny you say this, because Lion is as similar to Lina as he is to Shaman, but neither Lina nor Shaman are similar to one another, and yet, both Lina and Shaman become fucking disgusting, nearly game winners alone with farm, while Lion doesn't.

Having one good hero per niche isn't that bad when there's 90 niches and only 112 heroes.

as far as I could tell the "different objectives" were just "gather retarded shit so you can do a giant deathpush"

Don't listen to him. You can DEFINITELY win a match by simply having champions the enemy does not (or does not pick). But that takes them picking some really underpowered stuff, rather than having a direct "my pick beats yours" correlation.

I want Icefrog to balance for Riot, just to make champions more different.

It's more or less decided on who's better with the heroes they're playing. A master league KT main is still probably going to beat another master league player who's picking solely to counterpick.

And again it's also dependent on how they play that particular game because again, skill level on a game to game basis is dynamic and not static.

In essence, get fucking good you trash kid. If you can't understand it worded like that then you need to be sterilized.

But then, I guess for example to patriots didn't pay enough money to win those two super bowls they lost to a vastly inferior giants team