Indie

>indie
>published by ATLUS

Do people think "indie" means "small quirky game" nowadays?

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>small independent company develops game, ask big name to publish it for some profit
I think you're just retarded OP.

>bankrolled by external publisher
>indie

Apparently so.

>bankroll
user, that isn't how this works. Atlus didn't provide money for the development of the title.

>small company ask big company to publish their game
>big company checks it out, thinks it might be worth the cost for a % of profit
Yeah, you're retarded.

>announcement trailer has ATLUS as the first thing you see

hmmm. where are you two getting the idea that Atlus wasn't in this from the very beginning? Indie is an abused label nowadays.

youtube.com/watch?v=U9-ZRwrH99w

>having a publisher
>being independent

Doesn't steam just let you tag anything woth anything

Okay, then Atlus paided for the development of Demon Souls?

>first thing you see
That's in everything that is published. Studio is never first.

Was Demon Souls called indie while being published by Sony of Japan and Atlus?

How many times you moving that goal post?

The goalpost is still the OP question.

>Do people think "indie" means "small quirky game" nowadays?

Fucking christ, that's one major goal post

Indie means a small team of developers who usually do not have large budgets backing their titles.

The team of the title you posted has 15 employees and no funding from Atlas. Google is your friend.

>say the name being first means they paid for development
>except when it proves me wrong!
The state of Sup Forums

> no funding from Atlas

Except when they published it, right? What's the difference between an indie team that publishes their own game and one that has the financial backing of a publisher?

It's the same shit with music, indie is now a genre rather than doing it on your own.

Indie is a completely meaningless term in gaming.

Marketing purposes. A big publisher backing your work means more exposure and more money for both of you.

>except when they published it right
That isn't how publishing works. Publishers take a cut of the income after the product is shipped and sold. A developer, (team ACE) would lose profits and gain nothing else from the publisher.

The publishers job is to move the product and advertise it for the company who hired them. Not pay their checks or the cost of software.

How young are you?

Indie games have virtually lost all credibility. Almost every small developer is trying to sign deals with mega publishers for the most money possible, yet companies like Microsoft will gloat about Cuphead being an indie game.

So indie is a marketing label rather than an actual clarification nowadays.

>I don't know the difference between advertising/logistics and development costs
Let me guess, you want to be a "game designer"

It's fine.

Indie only became synonymous with hipster trash developed by 3 art college dropouts around 2007 when the scene got hijacked by hipsters.
There was a time when the vast majority of pc scene was independently developed and people would pray somebody would pick their game for wide release.

That was weird to me.

>look at this indie game, made by just two guys!
>also all the guys at Microsoft + a few million dollars, but we don't talk about that!

here's my Sup Forums guaranteedreplies.jpg

>itt people don't understand business
Indie means indie, all the means of production to launch are indie. Done by the team/studio

If you ask a big name publisher to publish your game, you lose your rights to the IP. It becomes theirs forevermore all because you asked them to publish the game and market it.

As Said, it's now just marketing unless publisher is by the studio that made the game.

>Zeno Clash doesn't work on modern GPUs because it stutters like crazy for some fucking reason

Welp. How's Rock of Ages?

Lemme explain it like this. Imagine a young, aspiring author. He writes a book. Let's pretend books written by small writers are called indie books. He calls a major bookstore and says "Hey, please sell my books. You can take a portion of every sale if you do". This doesn't stop him from being an independent author, nor does that magically make the books written by a giant corporation.

Wouldn't that be like sending your manuscript to Random House/Penguin/whoever? For your analogy to work, they would also have to print the books and advertise them everywhere. The bookstore is more like Steam in this case.

>>If you ask a big name publisher to publish your game, you lose your rights to the IP
t. a retard.

> If you ask a big name publisher to publish your game, you lose your rights to the IP.

False, although this is a popular option because it usually does mean more $$$ for the dev or does make the difference between a publisher agreeing to publish your game or not. Another common option is a a X year exclusive clause, meaning you can't pursue another publisher for a certain amount of time for that IP.

You're right actually. But still, doesn't change the fact you're a writer by yourself with no assistants or whatever?

Treasure
Platinum
I can go on

>If you ask a big name publisher to publish your game, you lose your rights to the IP.

And yet Sony was STRUGGLING to find characters they could use for Playstation Allstars because even they don't own jackshit.

And Falcom is only 50 people and nobody ever called Ys and Trails an indie game

So, what's the limit for a game company/team to be considered indie then? Or is it more of a case of whether you've incorporated yourselves or something? If I set up my own company and it gets listed on the stock exchange but I'm the only employee, am I indie? Am I still indie if I get a bunch of shareholders?

Keep going on because every name you add makes you more wrong. Those developers never had any rights for the IPs involved in the first place.
Platinum is a contractor not different from Studio ninja doing work for Capcom, they don't make their own IPs.

You could have your game being published and keep the IP rights.
The IP could be shared and both companies could cockblock eachother forever.
And the most obvious example, you could have your game published but just in one region.

Here's some actual examples:
Obsidian: could have kept AP IP but didn't due to financial issues.
Kept POE IP despite it being published by Paradox.
Had no IP rights for Stick of truth and worked as a contractor (like platinum)

CD project:
Witcher 1 published by Atari
Witcher 2 and 3 self published.


Hell, you could have your game published and even keep the rights for specific characters so even if publisher keeps the IP rights he can't use them without your agreement.

If they developed a game on their own and sought out a publisher for distribution help then it's still independent. Same thing happens in the independent film scene. A movie gets made without any studio backing and then a major studio picks up the film for distribution after the film has gone through the indie circuit.

why does ATLUS USA publish so much shit that ATLUS has no part in?

Because they are separate companies under same umbrella organization.

Atlus doesn't publish their console games on PC so they might as well be some random Indie label. From the looks of it they only publish Kickstarter-backed games on PC? I guess maybe they pressed a few physical discs like Paradox did when they became PoE's publisher.

Valve is an indie company

Indie means independent, you fucking retard. As in made and published independently from a publisher.

>made and published
>and published
So they own their own hosting server, website, CD printing company.

Because None do this, nor have they ever done this.

Back when indie was first coined that's exactly what they did.

>thats exactly what they did
Except they did not, They did not sit in their bedroom making CD copies or floppies of their games and distributed it.

You are mixing up indi bands and indi game developers.

>They did not sit in their bedroom making CD copies or floppies of their games and distributed it.
Yes, that's exactly what they did. You are also mixing up the developer paying for a distribution service and the publisher paying for them.

Yes. Just like fetish is anything you enjoy masturbating to.

>you are mixing up the dev pay for distribution and the publisher
Publishers are the distributor you colossal faggot.

>A person paying a company to print CDs for them is the same as a company coming along and saying they'll pay to have the CDs printed for the person if that person gives them some profits from the sales
No.

They do. What do you think? Answer these questions and say why you chose that answer:
Are Zelda BOTW and Xenoblade Chronicles indie?
Is Portal 2 indie?
Is Super Meat Boy indie?
Are none of the above indie?

>They did not sit in their bedroom making CD copies or floppies of their games and distributed it.
That's exactly what independent developers did even as far back as the fucking Atari 2600 and C64. They would buy the hardware needed, boards/disk, and print their own labels. This is another reason the market crashed and why Nintendo had patents on their shit.

Just now indie developers, meaning a person(s) developing a game not affiliated with no major development team, make their own game, but many often seek publishers with said companies to help broaden the appeal and market, for a % of sales.

It's not god damn brain surgery.

They don't pay them to print CD's dumbass, They also do not pay them to do the advertising. They take a cut of the profit. That is entirely different.

>this is what they did
Except they did not. The market did not crash because joe smoe in his garage printed 10 copies of a game.

It crashed because the big developers flooded the market with lots of shitty titles. Fucking underage fags need to go.

Yes, I just said that a publisher takes the cut of the profit.

>another reason
Work on that reading comprehension buddy.

>Kerbal Space Program
>Best selling Latin American game on Steam
>Published by Squad
>Got bought by take-two

I dunno what are you trying to say OP

indie in popular jargon are games made by like 10~15 people under a budget

Reminds me of the 90s when "alternative" was the term used for the very form of rock and pop music that had the most Billboard chart and corporate radio airplay presence, as opposed to the prior decade when it was the, well, alternative to the synthesizer and arena-oriented music that was mainstream then.

>It crashed because the big developers flooded the market with lots of shitty titles.

It crashed also because "Joe Smoe" and John Smith, Jane Doe, Billy, Willy, etc were all basically buying cheap parts and reselling complete rip-offs of games at cheaper prices. There were hundreds of clones and straight up copies of games. C64 and disk based computer games were also easily pirated effortlessly. My father use to attend meet ups with people who'd pirate Amiga games and do swaps.

>Fucking underage fags need to go
Agreed, get the fuck out of here.

>the reason the market crashed was because nothing I had stated before
Thanks faggot. Glad to see you play yourself.

Not even giving you anymore (you).

Fuck off retard.

Not really. One-man games are considered indie without a doubt, and even games like Divinity OS and OS2, or Mark of the Ninja are considered indie everyhwere when Larian and Klei have 30+ employees.

this is indie being used as independent

It's not though. What even makes you think that?

because these are self funded games

Divinity OS and OS2 are both kickstarter games. Mark of the Ninja was funded and published by Microsoft. They are patently not self-funded.

For Atlus USA specifically they are publishing games into English that are indie in other nations; similar to what XSeed and NISA do with some of the weirder weeb shit they do.

ACE Team specifically is based in Chile, so Atlus is more an international distributor for them; this being more alike to what Deep Silver's original modus operandum was, which was getting Cyrilik games out to Western Europe.

Now, what EA and Take-Two are doing: no, those aren't indie. Take-Two expressly says they don't maintain the IP post release, but EA has a strangle hold on all distribution and publishing of the game and it's future sequels; unless the "indie partner" (Zoink! in the case of FE) is bought out by a larger publisher down the line. Then stuff needs to be re-negotiated. But these two publishers have producers in key roles of development; similar to how Sakamoto or Tanabe are always sent in to supervise what few Western studios Nintendo feels like partnering with.

In summation: Atlus USA translation jobs: Indie. Anything EA or Take-Two touches: not indie

Tax reasons. Before the Sega buy-out, Atlus Japan used to not make enough games for the USA branches translations to turn an operable profit for the branch. USA's various indie distribution deals were meant to balance the budget in-between Persona 4 spin-offs, basically.

Now, though, Atlus USA is just Sega America.