Casuals used to love fighting games

Casuals used to love fighting games
Why is it so hard to make them buy fighting games these days?

Cause the FGC are cunts

They suck.

maybe because everyone plays online instead of in person now and if you go online in any given fighting game you will get stomped by people who take the game way more seriously than you.

the same FGC cunts made tons of guides and resources for absolute beginners

fpbp
Elitism is cancer.
Thankfully, as a fighting game casual, I managed to ignore them and enjoy fighting games anyway.

This is one area that the general public aren't to be blamed. The developers fucked.
You see, fighting games were fun and casual, but with the depth to be played seriously, HT dettection, counting frames, this kind of bullshit.
Fighting games today are extremelly complicated to these people. It looks like now it is a niche genre because it started to apeal to a niche type of players.
Also this, .
Take what I said before and add what said. It's a tough pill to sell for everyone.

Arcades are pretty much extinct in America, playing online lacks the banter and social aspect that you used to find in the arcades. Also the godawful lag makes lagtics and similar shit that will just frustrate the average player pretty common.

This is often overlooked. In fact, I know several who frown on getting any kind of help. Instead you'll get casuals who say "WTF I have to LEARN all this shit to be good at the game? Pass!" Casuals used to like ALL games because games were meant to be engaging. Now they just want to be entertained. Any further engagement is too much.

>company makes basic fighting game
TOO BASIC
>company makes complex fighting game
TOO COMPLEX
>company makes easy to learn, complex to master fighting game
TOO MANY TRYHARDS
>company makes versatile game that can be enjoyed seriously or for fun
TOO DIFFERENT
>company makes game with lots of characters people like
TOO CASUAL
>company makes game with a few characters but with balance in mind first
NOT WORTH THE MONEY

The list goes on and on.

The kinds of people who casually buy fighting games are like young Muriel in that episode of Courage the Cowardly Dog with the macaroni.

Not true actually. Mastering most of the advanced mechanics that you find in most modern FGs is not necessary to enjoy the title. You pulled a cross up or some tight setup in SF2 or korean backdashing in T3/TTT and some shitter would crying that you're a cheater because he can wrap his head around how the game works when you get closer to the skill ceiling.

Injustice is pretty popular among casuals

They're generally averse to learning, that's why they're casuals, and traditional fighting games don't offer much in the way of gratification unless you're able to learn.

There's a simple litmust test for wether a genre of game is bad enough to appeal to casuals : did Blizzard make a game in that genre ?
If the answer is no, the genre can't appeal to casuals.

Then someone could make a non-traditional fighting game that sells like hotcakes

If you gave people Hyper Fighting today with what people know about fighting games casuals would immediately cry it's too complicated (partly because people are really good at making old obvious shit sound super technical now for some gay ass reason). The games only seemed simple enough for casuals because most people played where maybe one guy understood anything about the game and everyone just played in a super simplistic retarded way like spamming heavy kicks.

When casuals loved fighting games they were the only multiplayer versus games to speak of, anyways. If they came after FPS they probably never would have been popular at all.

Its because being challenged isn't fun.

Video games are for fun not even shitposting

My friends and i still play injustice and persona 4 arena/ultimax on 360. These were pretty easy to get into, we learned fast, and thus, we stuck with them. Thats really the key to it. Easy to learn and flashy enough to keep your interest so you can start learning more of it

Multiplayer in other genres :
>elo system / matchmaking makes sure you're matched with people just as bad as you, and you can only progress by getting significantly better than them untill you reach your next plateau and eventually stay there for all eternity because you're normie casual filth

multiplayer in fighting games
>routinely find players way above your skill level, and instead of taking the learning opportunity and treasuring this event, you bitch and moan that you're losing and the matchmaking is broken

Being challenged can be part of the fun, what people hate is humiliation, that's why they go for titles in which it's easier to win by chance or to blame your faults on team mates.

I'm not exactly a casual when it comes to fighting games, but not even a high level player. Personally my issue with current fighting games is that they're too dumbed down for the sake of attraction for an audience who doesn't care about that, which results in a less interesting game to both play and spectate overall. That is especially true for current Capcom fighting games, which have been lackluster and boring in terms of gameplay mechanics and general polish.

They tried, that was the entire point of rising storm and fantasy strike
they're not doing so good

They do. They just buy Mortal Kombat instead of your irrelevant Jap fighter.

>matchmaking makes sure you're matched with people just as bad as you
Most games have shit matchmaking and players who make new accounts and the like to humiliate lesser players though.

fighting games were ruined by the internet

giving everyone access to the ability to practice fighting games made them unplayable

it's an inherently casual genre based around casual play that is also the most autistic genre, doesnt make any sense, has nowhere to go and no crowd to attract

ELO isn't what makes the difference, it's just a combination of fighting game playerbases being too small for skill based matchmaking to work like, at all outside of Jive, and that having 1 under ranked player in a 6v6 is barely noticeable because he still has to carry 5 shitters while in 1v1 he will just skullfuck you.

For example, you go to training mode.
All that options and red blocks and green blocks and frames and i-frames and numbers.
I am not against this, the more options the better. But then you go see a video to get better and there is a fuckton of things you don't understand. If said person don't want to spend hours and hours learning one game, it's a no go. That's why shooters are so common today. The basic idea is, just shoot.

I agree with you in everything. And the FPS part nailed it, in my opinion.

Overall fighting games today are very hard to get in and have fun.

Yet Smash is super successful

On the contrary, it only ruined it for those who don't make their research on how to improve. Every person who can actually bother will only find that the game has much more in offer than what they previously thought.

you're so clueless it hurts, just because you mashed buttons with your friend for 30 minutes doesn't mean they're supposed to be played like this, shithead

My post wasnt necessarily about the matchmaking itself but about the mentality of non-fighting game players regarding being matched with higher skilled players. It's a very common thing to call smurfing in other games "unfair" because it pits a skilled player vs less skilled opponents, and that's something that should be avoided in their minds, because they don't want to be on the recieving end of that kind of relationship. If the game / matchmaking system makes that kind of thing a possibility, it's broken, it doesn't work, the devs should fix it. That's what they think.

Meanwhile, fighting game players literally pay money out of their pocket to moneymatch top players so they have a chance at testing themselves vs players of that caliber, or online will rematch someone that is stomping them 15 times to learn their tricks.

>All that options and red blocks and green blocks and frames and i-frames and numbers.
Very few games actually show you this upfront. KI, Skullgirls and Injustice 2(which is very popular among casuals) are some of the games that inform you about this. But now that I think about it people like Yahtzee couldn't even finished that tutorial so it's likely that even that is too much for them.

>Anyone who is better than me is an elitist

>improve
yeah see that's why the genre is bad
nobody cares about "improving" at casual video games
Funny since I played SFII TWW when it was new. What do you think people did back in those days? Do you think everyone knew combos and mixups and crossovers and keepaway and shit? back in what 1992?

And that was about the last time fighting games were relevant, or rather MK soon after that

It was casual, we played to have fun, now fighting games have evolved into this autistic monster and people practice for hours and shit...its gay shit...it was a casual genre

Smash's complexity is on the higher end of fighting games, especially melee's. Melee especially has probably the highest execution barrier in any fighting game in existence.

The availability of the tutorial is a good thing for people that are in the market for this kind of explanation, it's just that you can't fix someone's mindset. If they don't want to learn, they won't do your tutorial.

>Smash's complexity is on the higher end of fighting games
LOL

No, no its not

Local multiplayer is pretty much the only way to get 'casuals' (god I fucking hate that word) to play a fighting game with a high skill ceiling, because rest assured their friends will never learn the deeper/hidden mechanics either.

Either you have no idea what goes into playing melee optimally or you're trolling, either way debating this with you is worthless

>playing optimally

gee, why can't fighting games sell anymore? why don't they take off??

that game divekick was actually a really noble idea

>yeah see that's why the genre is bad
Not really, it is only bad for the shitters who don't bother to make their research as explained in my post. This doesn't say anything negative about the game, only the player, and even then there's something that casuals can enjoy at some level too specially if the game adds auto combos and similar shit.

Take your shitty bait and fuck off

Well yeah you're right, I couldn't fathom the mindset of 90% of people going one and done in fucking casual matches in the DBFZ beta, what the fuck is the point of wasting your time searching instead of playing the goddamn game when you barely know the buttons? (maybe)

Those aren't appealing to new players, they're just excuses for the devs to jack off. Tekken is very complex yet still has massive appeal to newer and moderately skilled players. Think about why.

Why play casualized bullshit when Melee exists?

>Tekken is very complex
tekken is the least complex fighting game on the market

you completely skipped over the point that the seminal and most important and most relevant game of the entire genre was a casual game that didnt include pro autism elements

thanks for the clarification that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and are just gatekeeping a genre that has evolved in complexity to serve a tiny player base that NOBODY WNATS TO PLAY WITH :^)

No one wants to play locally.(Not fighting game's fault. Just the climate we're in)

Online is full of tryhards and people far more experienced than yourself.

Other genres offer more "visceral" experiences, without the need to train. As the rise of the cinematic game took the allure away from the spectacle of fighters.

The problem with that is inevitably with enough people someone will find something to cheese that everyone else is too retarded to beat and accuse them of being a tryhard ruining the game even though they are fucking terrible.

Anyone who's been exposed to more technical, more dynamic fighting games will quickly pass on tekken. Other top fighters, namely Street Fighter, MvC and MK have advanced impressively in their latest installments; but the relic that is tekken just can't seem to evolve, furthermore many combos can be done simply by hitting 1-button, and the nearly "instant-kill" rage art moves are just laughably broken. Instead of a supplying a proper fighting engine, matches in T7 seem to rely heavily on "who can get their rage move off first". So many elements of the gameplay don't even require any sort of skill. In my book, slow motion over and over again also gets old very quickly. And in the end, it's more of a novelty or gimmick rather than an actual, thought-out fighting game mechanic. But hey, the casual crowd will be pleased!

If you want something a little more "button-masher-friendly," tekken might be your cup of tea.... Key word, might.

>WAAH WHY ARE PEOPLE BETTER THAN ME
>IT MUST BE A-AUTISM

Thank god for the Elitists who shut down shitters, otherwise these threads would be just as littered with scrubs like every RTS thread ever.

Not one company made a well produced story mode that encourages the player to learn the game by successfully performing given tasks. Then rewarding them with comfy cutscenes, and character building exp.

I absolutely hate tekken so my interpretation of why is very biased. Tekken is just a game that appears very simple on the surface and seemingly designed around throwing random normals out while always staying at the same exact distance, so it's very easy to fathom at first glance. It has none of the zoning situations that casuals hate, airtight pressure is short and unopressive, and combos are generally low execution.
It gives you the illusion of being easy to play and understand, which is part of it's big success, but even that casual appeal doesn't really give it a playerbase as big as SF or Smash.

...

And you completely skipped how the game can still be enjoyed at a casual level because you don't have to learn any of the advanced shit. This "issue" is only present if you find a player who understands the game better than you, and this is going to happen in most PvP titles that aren't designed as party titles.
Play CoD and a player who understands how to play the game is going to ruin your day, same with SF2. The only thing SF2 lacks is that you have more players in the game so it's easier to find someone of a lesser skill level than you.
You were a little kid who only had shit opponents of a similar skill level when you played those, the genre was never really that different.

>characterize me as someone who cares if people are better than me in fighting games

yes user it is autism. being good at fighting games is fucking straight up autism even other people in this thread wont dispute that

If you think you don't have to be autistic to be good at SFII I have news for you

>Play CoD and a player who understands how to play the game is going to ruin your day, same with SF2.

that's an awful comparison. anyone who plays shooters can jump straight into any new shooter and be competent, and basically every single gamer plays shooters to some extent, or semi shooters, or third person games that approximate shooters

because

1) everyone plays online
2) fgc is cancer
3) online has lag
4) people are tryhards
5) fighting games now just go for the realistic look too much, the characters themselves are stale, too many copycat characters, and the games generally just aren't that fun
6) developers traded in fun for "balance"

Same goes for fighting games, most of the important skills carry over from game to game

SFII 26 years after arrival has nothing to do with what I'm talking about

no they don't not at all

i used to play snk games autistic as fuck it never helped whatsoever with stuff like tekken virtua fighter soul calibur or when the anime fighting games came out they felt totally different

missing the point anyway shooter skills are semi ubiqitous among gamers, fighting game skills are not

>anyone who plays shooters can jump straight into any new shooter and be competent
Competent? No. Get the basic idea of how to play? Yes, same with fighting games.
You give the controller to someone unfamiliar with the FPS genre and he won't be able to play competently, same with a fighting game. Once someone plays a fighting game he'll be able to have a basic idea of how to play another similar title.

Because fighting games are primarily Japanese and Jap games haven't been "cool" since the early PS2 era.

No, what you're talking about is an environment where nobody knows to play the game so the playing field is even. You're wrong for believing that. Even at a lower level of understanding of the game, dedicated people will find strategies to dominate and someone that plays casually will get destroyed anyway.

Do you think CoD kiddies can even get a kill in Quake or ARMA

>tryhards
Go back to gamefaqs

then you're not very good at snk games either

SNK fighters are not 3d fighters like those others. That's like saying playing Quake is the same as playing Battlefield or R6 Siege.

>That's like saying playing Quake is the same as playing Battlefield or R6 Siege.

it is

>snk games
2d fighters
>tekken virtua fighter soul calibur
3d fighters

what the fuck man, of course they're different

so you're actually retarded

>tryhard
Im glad casual scrubs like you are shunned from the community

>SKILLS TRANSFER BETWEEN ANY FIGHTING GAMES!!!!
>BUT NOT THOSE!!!!! THEY'RE DIFFERENT!!!!

d-durhh

False
Dive kick requires 200 IQ to get good at

>im going to pick one thing from the block of text and only focus on that

see i can greentext too :DDDDDDD

No. You don't have the same sets of mechanics and how have to approach the games very differently. You can't just run and gun in Battlefield or R6 Siege or you're going to get yourself killed because you need to rely more on how the rest of the team is playing instead of just running and shooting. The only thing they have in common is that you move around and aim to things to shoot them, and if you use that argument then you can apply the same to both 2d and 3d fighting games, you move around, block and punch to win.
They do though, if you become competent at snk fighters you'll have a better understanding about spacing and poking in every other fighting game.

Jesus christ, how can you not understand that playing in a 2d plane is different from playing in a 3d plane?
They're both called fighters because they share the same concept (punch guys till they're dead), not because they play alike, you retarded fuck

desu I kind of agree with him, there's this mentality outside of japan of always picking the best characters or the characters that give the best odds of winning instead of learning the characters you like, like in japan where much more character specialists appear on the scene overall. Rotating to whatever's broken in the latest patch is the most stale shit, and is the definition trying too hard. It has nothing to do with not being willing to learn the game, but more to do with putting winning above all else, which frankly put, is silly when there's no money on the line.

Ok, I play fighting games like 2 times a year with my friends. I am in the thread because the theme has potential.
What the fuck is tryhard?

Varies from person to person but for a lot of shitters it's anyone who puts effort into anything.

Smash exists

Someone that takes winning very seriously and will not accept any shenanigans from teammates or himself, and will do everything in his power to punish his opponent for trying to have fun

Its something shitters say in a desperate attempt to damage control when faced with someone better than them

Because they pandered the wrong people.
The minority.

And the sales tell.

overcoming a challenge is fun you mongoloid

/thread

A dedicated minority is a goldmine, retard-san, it's called a captive market.
Publishers just want broader appeal to make CoD numbers but it's not happening.

Casuals moved onto battle royal games

I demand more chibi chun with ridiculously thick thighs

I'll take lagtics over arcade tactics anyday, which consisted of irl intimidation, taking as much space of the cabinet as possible so you make the other half unconfortable for your opponent, and picking the side of the cabinet that has been less worn down by use.

No they are not. Tons of guides, more any other game. Its than nu gamers hate learning curves.

someone who wins
I've been coming off of anesthesia where I trying to ignore the oncoming pain instead of focusing on the game and I was still called a tryhard. It's more of the shitters chant

Because when arcades were a still thing being good at fighting games meant something even for casuals. Everyone back then knew how satisfying wrecking some local champ in front of your bros and random casual faggots was, so they bothered to buy them and practice a lot to git gud. But now time's different. It's only you before your monitor playing some random guy online. Unlike shooters you don't even have anyone to voice chat with. Casuals don't want that.

>captive market
>hopelessly fragmented into fifty factions of people who hate each others' game/community

people here are so quick to throw out "retard" anymore and half the time they're saying the dumbest shit in the world themselves. Yeah, it's great for fighting game makers that they can count on 1000 sales. I'm sure it's exactly what they want.

You can't teach fighting games in single player. It's entirely different once you play a real human

>Elitism is cancer

Well said comrade

each of these faction is an individual captive market, retard san, fighting game players are not an amorphous blob anymore than "action movie watchers". And fighting games sell very respectably nowadays, arc system works is in business, SNK is making new competent games which hadn't happened since fucking 2002, tekken is still going strong, and there's a new soul calibur on the way.
Please explain how any of this is possible if the market is so weak as you say, do these company hate money or something ?

>which consisted of irl intimidation, taking as much space of the cabinet as possible so you make the other half unconfortable for your opponen
Do people actually do that? I think that as long as the other guy isn't way bigger than you then you can actually do something about it to keep him in check.
>and picking the side of the cabinet that has been less worn down by use.
That's another issue of the average american arcade, they rarely give them proper maintenance. .

I guess I kinda understand now, thank you, anons.
In my opinion, a person being is good in what he likes is a cool thing.. The thing can be useless and shit to others, but hey, if you really like it, why don't you want to be better at it?
I though it was someone that only does "hadoukens" or the same move the entire fight. This is not fun for the other guy. If the other guy can't play for shit too, I mean.