What do you think of Bamham-style melee combat?

What do you think of Bamham-style melee combat?

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I didn't like it in the Batman games I played because it felt so weightless but I enjoyed it in Sleeping Dogs and Mad Max

crap 0 skill automatic combat, what we really need is a revival of NGB and DMC3 tier combat systems

IMO it's fun and easy and it looks cool. I don't have a problem with it being easy because it seems like the whole point is to style on fools anyway, never losing your combo.

Still I say it's easy but I sometimes will get out-of-my-rhythm, where I will get punched in the back of the neck like 3 times in a row

I think it can be done well theoretically but because thea games are stuck on babymode there's no case example of interesting combat encounters with it.

are there any games like this where the enemies can accidentally strike eachother? It would make a whole lot more sense for why they seem to only attack you 2-3 at a time maximum.

Also there should be specific guys who are just berserk aggressive at you, and never stop rushing at you until they're KO'd, even if there are three other guys already swinging at you. The regular (pussy) enemies can all hang back and take turns until these tough guys are dead first

it's okay
FUCK this trophy in the eye socket

Most enemies in Mad Max has a rage mode where they will just bull rush you no matter how many other people your currently fighting and depending on what weapon they're using they will most likely end up killing or hurting a couple of their own in the process.

>webm of dunkey's review instantly clearing a tough encounter by pressing counter repeatedly because the game doesn't punish you for using it in any way

Who could possibly want this instead of an actually good combat system like DMC?

>thinks the game is easy
>never got three stars on the Joker's Carnival challenge in Batman Arkham City
you have no idea what it takes

fags

I only just scraped through the batman one
I can't imagine how hard the robin/catwoman ones must have been

that wasn't a tough encounter, and doing that only "works" on the most basic goons in the game. I say "works" because it takes about a five minutes to knock out even these easiest enemies in the game using nothing but counters, because regular counters do very little damage

I like it. It made me feel like Batman

I got that reference.

it was cute for a licensed game that also had stealth and puzzle elements
once original properties and action-focused games started implementing it things got bad. slowly tapping X or Y is not a fun, deep combat system and none of these games have made additions that turn it into anything special

It works well for super hero games

So is Mad Max a good game? I thought it was a movie tie in game and avoided it

the criticism for bamham combat being too easy is quite off. i think the game does get quite challenging when you're further into the game because of the fact that you have to keep track of different kind of enemies and different ways to counter them.
even then i would say the focus of the combat isnt so much about surviving as trying to keep a long, quick,varied combo. when you really get a good combo going and you're countering three people at once, disarming some machete guy, throwing a batarang at a guy across the room, batclawing the dude with the machine gun 15 feet away, all while still having that super armored BIG GUY stunned into a fast-punching combo, thats when it gets satisfying.

its like playing hotline miami and complaining that the game is too easy because you're slowly walking from room to room baiting one enemy at a time around the corner

>It would make a whole lot more sense for why they seem to only attack you 2-3 at a time maximum.
I really wish this weren't a thing. AssCreed series is just as bad for it. Why are crowds of enemies incapable of just piling onto you like they would RL?

Instead you just sit back and bait out counters.

Sleeping Dogs just felt fucking great in general, but it had enough variety to distract from the melee combat being on the easy side also since it regularly has enemies shooting at you as well.

Sleeping Dogs was great

Mindless and pointless: too forgiving to be challenging, too few options to be cuhrayzee

If they want to do a proper counter-system, it needs to be active on the player's part rather than doing 'It's spidey-I mean Bat senses"

I had fun with it, and the graphics are gorgeous. The game is extremely well optimized too. Combat is fun, car combat is sometimes fun and sometimes just frustrating.
However, it is also an extremely repetitive collect-a-thon with a meh story and infinitely less fun shit to do in the open world the further you progress through the game. I put a lot of hours into it and finally completed it with a maxed-out car anyway, though

vigilante
not a super hero

I think ironically it's more suited to Spider-Man I mean they even give him Spider Sense ffs

But as a form of gameplay? I think it's fun

I think it works in Sleeping Dogs because there are still things that can hurt you and they give you enough creative options so that it feels like the Hong Kong Cop movie homage they intended.

In the Arkham games, it feels lifeless because it's the equivalent of some DBZ power-level bullshit: it's invincibility that doesn't produce cool new interactions, it's just Batwank

>If they want to do a proper counter-system, it needs to be active on the player's part rather than doing 'It's spidey-I mean Bat senses"
So you just want to remove the "incoming attack" indicators then, so you just have to rely on watching the enemies actual movements? Because you can already do that in most of these games

It works fine enough in the Arkham series but I hate how many other games have copypasted it.

Insomniac's Spider-Man especially, pretty much lost all interest in the game as soon as I saw that combat. That doesn't fit Spider-Man at all. Spider-Man is way more mobile, he's not a regular (albeit strong) human like Batman. Insomniac had so many previous Spider-Man games to draw from but instead they decided to play it safe and follow the industry trends. Even though it probably would not made a difference with sales either way. It's either developer laziness or retarded corporate suits who demanded the devs follow a checklist.

>the game doesn't punish you for using it in any way
Maybe that changed in Knight, but when I played Asylum and City doing that left me open for a hit

Or have it be like a counter system like in SF3 where you have a parry button but you need to read enemies' animations and hit the parry button plus the direction of the incoming attack to do a parry.

In the first BamHam (don't know about the rest), hard difficulty turns off spidey-sense. The problem still is that the window for countering is so wide, and all the enemies have obvious wind-up telegraphs before they can hurt you.

>That doesn't fit Spider-Man at all.
System literally relies on Spider Sense

Holy shit please tell me you're the same one making that argument in every thread.

PLAY LITERALLY ANY SPIDER-MAN GAME (that's not Amazing Spider-Man 2) and you will understand how restrictive Bamham-style combat is for Spidey.

Short of limited web cartridges, I don't know how you'd do proper Spiderman combat while having fluid feeling controls, because his speed and mobility would make any thug you come across a complete joke.

Spiderman games literally used it before the Arkham games.
It doesn't make sense for Batman to have straight of foresight whereas Spidey Sense LITERALLY is the first video game use of that mechanic

on release I liked the combat in Mordor. but going back to it yesterday, it feels clunky and slow.

Man I miss Web of Shadows

That's getting into Superman type arguments but I think other Spider-Man games did it well enough by making him agile and powerful but still mortal.

Why do you retards obsess over the single defensive gimmick when offense matters as well? There's a world of difference between being able to jump around freely and do combos and shoot your webs, and being stuck doing one-button combos that occasionally allow you to press other buttons if you get a high enough combo or have to deal with a gimmicky enemy. I feel like I'm the only one who actually plays video games.

I realize I said "combos" twice when Bamham-style combos aren't combos in the action-game sense but more like rhythm games, it's just "number of times you have pushed the button the way the game asked you to".

Dunkey was joking around. If you just literally spammed the counter button you'll never would be able to defeat anyone, you need to actually be in free flow to be able to defeat enemies when there's a lot of them around. And then later on, enemies will get knives, shields, guns and stun batons of which are things you can't just spam the counter button against.

>enemies incapable of just piling onto you like they would RL?
lots of people IRL are pussies and would rather let their friends do the fighting in such a 10v1 situation, while they standby ready to jump in (but only if need be, ofc.)

Also, unless it's one guy on the ground with 6 standing people kicking him in a circle, there is not enough room to maneuver when you have that many people trying to hit the same guy at once. In reality they would all just end up in eachother's way, grappling and wrestling the guy to the floor, and that would make for be fun gameplay. And when people are swinging around knives and swords, no group of fighters would ever use disorganized swarming tactics like that. You need a little room to maneuver in a sword fight

Because it makes even less sense for Batman.
I know it's a meme but Dunkey was right that a lot of the point of playing action games built around particular characters is the "feeling" or the fantasy of being that character with their powers and shit.
So all the mechanics have to fit around the idea of that character. Batman wasn't some super human, uber-fisticuffs borderline prescient fighter in the comics, movies or cartoons. The more appropriate type of gameplay for batman would be more akin to Metal Gear Solid than an action game like the old Spiderman games, which is more or less what all the Arkham games are built around.

The issue is that that single defensive mechanic renders the gameplay of every fist fight mindless. There is literally no point to bothering with fist fights because they're so monotonous but the game forces you into them. The entire game should have been stealth and misdirection with Batman being capable but very fragile. You know, as if he was a human being just like the mooks he was beating up

that's supposed to say:
>and that would not make for fun gameplay

meh

That'd be way too hard. Players would just roll out of the way of every attack instead

Yeah, almost as if Batman is a fallible human who primarily relies on stealth, tactics and misdirection rather than straight-forward combat

Friend I'm not gonna argue with what you said. I used Batman as a comparison with Spider-Man because I think it makes LESS sense for Spider-Man to be using that system by contrast. At least in the Arkham series' case they probably looked at that one scene in Batman Begins where Bruce takes on a bunch of prisoners and built a whole combat system around it. I would call Arkham's combat serviceable at best, and only because the game has enough variety and decent level design to make up for it. If the entire game was just that combat it would be bad.

>The entire game should have been stealth and misdirection with Batman being capable but very fragile
Then you don't know batman at all.
And i'm glad idiots like you are not in charged to develop any batman game because you idiots totally missed the point of the game.

The first game was fun. Then they put it into every game they have. Now it's just fucking lazy

It's DMC for casuals.
It's fun

I'd argue all four games were solid but they shouldn't continue since they've covered all the points they need to

>one button for attacking enemies
>one button for counter to enemy's attack
>one button to stun enemies, opening them up for attack
>one button for dodging when the enemy attacks with an un-counterable attack

Anyone who honestly considers this system difficult or rewarding is a shithead of the highest tier. In these games you adjust difficulty which controls
>enemy numbers
>enemy aggression
>enemy health
all of which has nothing to do with skill in the rhythm-based system, only lengthens the combat sequence and causes greater consequences for failure to press the right button - which ironically in the majority of these games has less to do with skill and more to do with enemy number and aggression - it's common in these rhythm based games which systematically rely on enemies "waiting their turn", you'll see the enemies attack from multiple directions and methods at the same time. In many of these games it's unavoidable to dodge or cancel or counter these rapid attacks so you'll inevitably lose health in combat no matter how perfect your reactions are. In games like Assassin's creed or middle-earth or Mad Max, you see that combat is based on dealing with enemies in a basic combat system but that system gets bypassed when there's 3 or more enemies attacking at the same time, so if you react by countering the first attack, you can get locked into an animation that will make you unable to dodge or counter the 2nd attack and so on. On higher and higher difficulties this can lead to even one hit kills that result in your death right off the bat. This is a poor system and I have no idea why it's considered accepted at this time.

Here's a video detailing exactly what I think: youtube.com/watch?v=KLzEfOhBoWo

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That would be God of War. Bamham is more like a rhythm game, and has very little connection to DMC besides both technically being "3D action games".

Nah baham is DMC lite by virture of the incentive to actually use your gear being style.

Like sure you can get through DMC by just spamming stinger and abusing high level trickster to become untouchable but that's not stylish.
Same with baham, you could just win or you could look good while doing it.

You had a point until the multiple enemies thing. In Shadow of Mordor at least, pressing the counter button continuously will counter every enemy's attack regardless of whether you're in an animation or not. Because you have that ghost elf guy. I only played through the first area during a free weekend.

I like it, script could be a bit tighter but you got your point across.

I loved the brutality in mad max's fighting.
IIRC this looks so blue because of my ENBseries stuff I set up for the game. That, or it's because the screen loses color when you are in fury mode (or when you have very low health, I can't remember).

Difficult no rewarding yes
Chaincombing 20 people by flawlessly counter all of their respective assaults, especially when most of them have different weapons and require separate tactics to defeat them, isn't rewarding at all? I would contest this. It's like rhythm games, user, doing the actual stuff is easy it's keeping the combo that's hard