How can other action games even compete?

How can other action games even compete?

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khwiki.com/Second_Chance
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Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix

It was a great game, but dmc 3 was better

>garbage ARPG
>anywhere close to any action game
Fucking KH faggots always trying to push their shit taste

KHII is definitely on this level. Get some taste, loser.

I saw this thread on the catalog and wondered how many posts in it would take for Kingdom Hearts fags to inject their shitty game into the thread. I thought we would at least get more than 5 before you faggots showed up. Sad to see I was wrong.

>implying Kingdom Hearts II isn't one of the strongest games in the genre, even carrying obvious influence from other pinnacles like DMC3

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By not having 'puzzles' or platforming sections.

Kingdom Hearts is a joke.

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LOL

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>all posts directly mention KH2
>posts a game that isn't KH2 to try and prove point
I don't even agree with them, but this is pretty stupid.

To be fair, that mechanic in the webm is in like every KH game including 2. Not sure what the issue is though.

khwiki.com/Second_Chance
khwiki.com/Leaf_Bracer
khwiki.com/Once_More
Hey look this exact problem is present in KH2.

DMC4 could have if it was actually finished. Here's hoping DMC5 delivers and doesn't get ruined by modern trends.

I'm a huge Kingdom Hearts fan but no, not even close. Barely even the same genre frankly.

>Not sure what the issue is though.
Are you joking? These three abilities mean any damage you take can be countered by mashing out with Cure. This removes tension, this makes health meaningless to track, this makes the game brain dead and easy. Why give the player such low health if you're going to give them such a powerful heal spell? No matter where you're at so long as you brought ethers, you can Cure out of anything. It's shit design.

Leaf Bracer isn't in the original KH1 at least, got added with Final Mix.

Not necessarily. You can still easily die if you tech at the wrong time and get hit again before healing. Also, healing uses all of your Mana and starts a cool down so if you get hit again there's no saving yourself. I don't see why you'd have an issue with this but not the fact that you can hit the pause button at any time in DMC and use a vital star if you're dying.

>DMC5 delivers and doesn't get ruined by modern trends.

DMC4 was already half ruined by "modern trends". It was made for a "wider audience" and it had practically nothing in common with the series before it apart from Dante himself and even there they fucked up

That is some ridiculous hyperbole.

>nothing in common with the series before it
what did he mean by this

>remove the dark and gothic visuals, outright state that it was done to make the game more appealing to women and a wider audience
>make Nero a cheap donut steel Dante but with far easier QTE tier gimmicks
>the easiest Dante Must Die mode in the series so far
>Bloody Palace is some fucked time attack mode and actually REMOVES depth from the DMC3 version
>Dante completely regresses as a character and the game is tonally a far cry from the series before it
>Make the entire upgrade system meaningless since the balance of orbs buying both healing/dt upgrades and items while also being the currency for abilities is now broken via proud souls

Literally the only thing that identifies it as DMC is the lockon/directional combat system and the camera angles, not a single DMC fan would even bat an eye about the game if Dante wasnt in it to backtrack through 40% of the game in a straight fucking line. It did everything in its power to pander to the lowest common denominator and CAPCOM tried even fucking harder to do that with DmC

>Also, healing uses all of your Mana and starts a cool down so if you get hit again there's no saving yourself.
This is why I explicitly mentioned ethers. Ethers are items that restore your mana. There's no item bracer but once you're at full health it's pretty free to just consume one.
>I don't see why you'd have an issue with this but not the fact that you can hit the pause button at any time in DMC and use a vital star if you're dying.
Are you joking once more?
- Vital Stars cost Red Orbs which are much better spent on new attacks
- Using Vital Stars penalizes your mission score, resulting in less Red Orbs for completion.
- Vital Stars are capped. You can only purchase 30.
Just stop posting.

Like I said, ridiculous hyperbole. You didn't talk at all about the core combat mechanics, the controls, the level design, the enemy design, etc etc.

>Literally the only thing that identifies it as DMC is the lockon/directional combat system

Wait hold up... the only thing that identifies it as DMC... is the combat? Whoa...

>Wait hold up... the only thing that identifies it as DMC... is the combat? Whoa...

So why is Bayonetta a separate franchise? I just explained to you that the game literally did everything in its power to take as much of the appeal of DMC as possible away while still keeping the core gameplay similar (yet casualized and boring because of Nero being used for the majority of the completely corridor tier linear campaign)

>You didn't talk at all about the core combat mechanics,

Dante is just a lazy portjob with dumbed down styles slapped onto the DPAD, Nero on the other hand has less fucking depth than the DMC1 Dante while also being DMC2 tier boring in terms of personality. Muh epic QTE arm and timing based "depth" that does nothing but add some extra meat per slice to the one fucking weapon he has

>the level design

Ahh yes, I didnt go in depth about the final fantasy jungles and white marble cathedrals of the vatican in a series known for its very tangible, interconnected levels that are shapeshifting and transforming constantly, coated in a gothic horror paintjob that gives the series its dark style and a fitting location for fighting actual demons. Then again who cares if it happens in a brightly lit acid green jungle when the "demons" are the waddling scarecrows that are maybe a step away from being the same comic relief that Grunts are in HALO

Ninja Gaiden 1 > Bayonetta 1 > DMC 3
Ninja Gaiden 2 > Bayonetta 2 > DMC 4
and the rest of the DMC games suck

>So why is Bayonetta a separate franchise?

Because of Witch Time? Because the core gimmick is in the name, "Bayonet"ta, as in combining guns and melee into one attack? Because of a SHITTON OF OTHER THINGS YOU WOULD KNOW IF YOU ACTUALLY PLAYED THE VIDEO GAME.

>while still keeping the core gameplay similar

You didn't say that, you said:
>it had practically nothing in common with the series before it

I have a feeling I've met you before and this doesn't end well, so I'm gonna stop now.

ether use is not free and you said it yourself. you'll be at full health so it's less of a risk but you're still taking a chance by using it. the games obviously have different philosophies because they're still different genres, but KH2 is a well designed action game in terms of combat options and boss design.

as far as DMC goes
>mission score
irrelevant towards simply beating the game
>costs red orbs
>capped
this is true. ether costs money in KH but since it's an RPG and not a strict action game like DMC you can grind for those. still, you shouldn't act like it's so difficult to purchase items for use in DMC. once you have your basic essential abilities you don't really need to get any more if you don't want to. you can spend your orbs on all three sizes of stars if you'd like. then you can use them at your leisure with basically no risk at all.

I don't care much though because I love both series.

One more (You) because this part is so horrendous.

>Dante is just a lazy portjob

No. Jesus Christ no. Pandora alone makes him not a portjob by any means. Stop your bullshit.

DMC4 fucked up but I think what you're saying is bullshit. If every series in any medium held itself so strictly to the previous entries you'd never see any evolution. I'll just touch on the level design by saying I enjoyed it much less than DMC and DMC3 but they were obviously experimenting with new, more open area types and variety. The game was obviously unfinished so I would have liked to see how they could have fleshed it out.

Maybe with DMC5.

>Pandora alone makes him not a portjob by any means.

You mean the most fucking useless gun in the series which is either exclusively used in the air or by some autist wanking themselves off with the final transformation to finish something off?

Meanwhile Lucifer is a "weapon" thats almost completely useless without Swordmaster and just shows how flawed these weapons are when they are designed with the context of the style switcher

>If every series in any medium held itself so strictly to the previous entries you'd never see any evolution.

The franchise identity of devil may cry is "dark, gothic horror setting but the superpowered main character is actually stylish while fighting these demons rather than merely surviving". Keeping the core of what the franchise is doesnt somehow cancel out "evolution". The loadout system and styles of DMC3 were evolution. What DMC4 did with everything that wasnt the core mechanics of Dante was consciously stripping away franchise identity in a vain attempt of conning more people into liking the franchise while taking away from what made the core audience like it in the first place. If the only fucking thing you care about is the core mechanics then you shouldnt be playing DMC in the first place since it simply pales in comparison to actual fighting games

>pales in comparison to actual fighting games
I mean... yeah? The thing is, DMC doesn't have to leave you trapped in a dark gothic setting. It worked well, they did it more than once. There's absolutely no reason why they can't try out new shit. All of the fundamentals are still there. The game still has demons, gods, angels, and shit. Still stylish. Just experimentation. Sometimes experimentation doesn't work. Like I said, I think DMC4 has its merits but it also fucked a lot up. I still appreciate them trying to do something new while trying to keep semblance of what the series is about.

>The game still has demons, gods, angels, and shit.

Barely, most people would describe DMC1 as atleast trying to be horror with the Shadows, enemies like the sin scissors/goatheads, the different puppet enemies and bosses like Nightmare. DMC3 had entire stages like the Leviathans intestines and in general constant unnerving environments like nowhere and "hell"

DMC4 has bosses that are lifted straight up from final fantasy or something, all of the environments fit that exact same nonoffensive fantasy theme and the "vatican" of this series was a complete fucking joke and straight out of some anime series (and not even the type where it would have been fitting to lift from)

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>Meanwhile Lucifer is a "weapon" thats almost completely useless without Swordmaster and just shows how flawed these weapons are when they are designed with the context of the style switcher.

But that's not even true, the Lucifer swordmaster moves are mostly just a shitty and cumbersome summoned swords. I barely ever use it because the attacks actually require you to summon the swords first for proper damage.

By being about freckled hardcore tomboys.

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>But that's not even true,

Yes it fucking is retard, the "normal" moveset of lucifer is just completey limp and the only useful attack is the one where Dante throws an entire row of pins in front of him, and Swordmaster is the only way to actually align these pins to do anything useful. Its the most gimmicky and least useful Devil Arm in the whole franchise so far while Nevan was basically the perfect demonstration of how to pull off a gimmick weapon like this

If you didnt always have access to swordmaster literally nobody would ever use Lucifer for anything when even now its mostly relegated to being a juggle tool in the air

>If you didnt always have access to swordmaster

But you do always have access to it?

>flashy over the top moves that do no damage
>basic bitch enemies that take 200 hits to kill

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>t. swordmaster

JC starfall says hello.

Yes, and it shows just how built around it the weapon is when something like rebellion or gilgamesh still stand on their own without it

The fuck does this mean? I don't even play action games, I just played dmc for an hour before uninstalling because I realised how crap it was.

What game are you playing? Teen Dante is OP as fuck as long as you are playing properly. The most OP he has ever
Been.

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By being alive and getting released.

I literally do not understand what you mean, DMC3 dante cuts through standard enemies like they are butter. He is ubsurdly OP compared to them.

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I played dmc4

We aren’t talking about that game though, look at the OP and he specifically mentions DMC3

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What exactly is supposed to be the problem here?

Fair enough, DMC4 is trash.

What the fuck are you talking about? DMC3 has tons of "puzzles" and even platforming in some cases.

asuka kazama disaprooves.

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Try looking two posts below

OP: How can other action games even compete?
user: By not having 'puzzles' or platforming sections.
Try reading carefully.

But Rebellion needs swordmaster way more than Lucifer because DMC4 has a way bigger focus on aerial combat.

Ah, I see. Sorry for that.

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>DMC4 has a way bigger focus on aerial combat.

Not necessary in the slightest and even if it was gilgamesh can keep them in the air without any style moves (just like lucifer)

Bayonetta 1 and 2 are superior to any Devil May Cry game.

If DMC5 does happen, it's has to be grander in scale.

haven't played 2 but bayo 1 is a potentially great action game utterly crippled by terrible scripted scenes, quick time events, minigames, platforming segments, and really monotonous giant bosses.

The platforming sections were fine, since Bayo's jump isn't as ridiculously stiff as Dante's. The other things you listed are shit though, I agree.

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>If DMC5 does happen, it's has to be grander in scale.

I really fucking hope not. The worst part about Bayonetta is its fucking obsession with being grand and epic. I am so fucking tired of gigantic set piece bosses, just give me more fights like Jeanne.

Pic related is "grand scale DMC" and it fucking blows ass.

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This image is pure kino

Oh god, what the fuck were they thinking
We need more fights like Vergil and Credo.

Does the PS4 controller work with DMC HD Collection on PC?

Are you new to vidyagaems? Giant scale can be done well. Have you ever played pic related? DMC combat can be meshed with bosses that actually feel big. It would take a good designer though. Present day Capcom is bad at hiring those.

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I use DS4windows. I didn't even try if it works without it.

SotC handles like shit, though. It does a lot of things great, but it controls pretty badly. The feeling of being shaken around on a giant monster helps to hide it, though.

Unironically the best Dante has looked

What do the controls matter? You can rip out SotC's tasteful, reactive, skill-demanding movement for some instantaneous frame-1 arcade controls without changing how the rest works.

The thing is that SotC mechanics are 100% built around fighting huge enemies, with a heavy focus on simply climbing them.

DMC and Bayonetta's combat is not built around huge bosses, so what happens is that you get shit where you stand on a platform with the boss playing fucking whac-a-mole on you.

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Thankfully you aren't in charge of a new DMC.
Giant bosses really aren't DMC's thing, the combat isn't suited for them.
Plenty of moves (think of stuff like High Time) and even whole weapons become useless when the boss is so big you can't interact with him in any meaningful way except damaging him or "hit the bright spot to stun the big guy" like with the final boss in 4.

There's more to change about how bosses behave. Here's a quick list of troubles that can be addressed that wouldn't demand copying SotC down to the letter
>XL Bosses don't utilize their stature. They wait around, they let you have your own little platform.
>XL Bosses don't interact with the environment. They don't bang their heads on bridges, throw trees, or get slowed down by rivers. They don't destroy things you hide behind.
>XL Bosses can't be clung to or scaled at all. Most of the time they don't even have proper collision.
>XL Bosses are almost exclusively fought on tiny circle arenas, sometimes with invisible walls. There's nothing interesting to deal with in the level. We're in 3D for God's sake, do something with the third axis.
>XL Bosses can't be entered. I'm not into vore but, come on, their innards have level design potential.

Ninja Gaiden fanboys can never get over the fact that DMC3 pioneered the Hack and Slash Genre.

this. the bosses in Bayo were a missed opportunity. smashing some node that sticks out for a few seconds out of some stupid statue that takes up three screens is not fun at any point.

I'm currently playing DMC3, nearing the end, and honestly there were no weak bosses thus far and most of them have been near player-size.

DMC would be so much better if they just gave up on the terrible platforming and "muh epic" bosses like Mundus and MUH SAVIOR, but we can't have that, nooo.

>Bayo1 finally ported to PC
>hoo boy I can't wait to play this game, fuck I'm hyped
>Bayo acts "sexy" half the time and it just doesn't work because the Japanese can't animate anything resembling real people (even though Bayo is 80% legs)
>terrible QTEs everywhere
>bosses so terrible you even get your own special "boss fight" form where you mindlessly spam wicked weaves at them
>garbage story and pacing
>on a first playthrough at least 60% of my playtime was spent watching cutscenes
I sure fucking hope Bayo 2 is better, because otherwise you're all literally insane.

Don't get me wrong, the game had a ton of cool shit and when it was fun, it was REALLY fun, but goddamn it had a ton of issues and I dislike people pretending it's perfect.

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are you fucking retarded?

Even GoW2 and 3 are better than Ninja Garbage

the fuck are yoiu talking about? There's not even a super-weak attack option that you could be accidentally using to think this.
How??

I mean, there's the pistols (yes I'm samefagging) but that's the weakest there is and even then...

The pistols are clearly meant to be used to simply keep up your style/juggle enemies in the air.

He looks like Ichigo.
Who's stringer Dante or Ichigo?

Trule gameplay starts at the 1 minute mark
How can a group of ten people make the most fluid action game ever?

youtube.com/watch?v=z5El-yYNUwU

By actually fucking working?
Its so damn fast on my 144hz gsync display its unplayable.

Seething

where can i get dmc4 for cheap on pc? im just about done with the hd collection, and steam regional pricing is a nightmare

>Can't make an argument so he just says "seething"
Absolutely mad because its the truth. I see.

>How can other action games even compete?

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There's no need argue with ignorant retards.

Why the fuck wasn't Nevan ever re-used after 3? Its the fucking pinnacle of fun weapons

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Ninja Goyim wouldn't last a second against XX's Super Azurebolt

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The thing is all of these games have tons of flaws and some downright godawful parts. They are judged primarily on the quality of their combat mechanics and sometimes enemy designs above everything else. If those are all good then you can have fun for dozens of hours without seeing the parts you dislike by just replaying chapters you enjoyed over and over on the higher difficulties, becoming better and getting better scores. When someone praises these games whether it's DMC or Bayonetta, MGR, God Hand or whatever else you have to keep that in mind.

NGfags have nothing to back up their claims, they're only capable of shilling their terrible games that no one outside of their little circle of elitism does not care about.

FUCKING BAT-BITCH STOLE MY DT REEEEEEEEEE

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>DMC3 is technically all taking place in one tower.
>Absolute impossible to get any sense of place of where the fuck you actually are.

It's better than DMC4's level design, but still; I wish they would get better at that shit. DMC1 might have had the castle transforming but at least you could kind of get a feel for Mallet Island.

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But in DMC4 Nero obliterates enemies no problem.

Just buy a gun or rev upgrade if you really can't take it.

I love DMC3 Lady

>terrible games that no one outside of their little circle of elitism does not care about.
Are you talking about DMC? A series that is fucking dead.

Actually, you can backtrack through most of the tower and back to Dante's shop on later missions before entering Leviathan. It really helps establish the Tower's layout as opposed to rooms only "existing" for their missions. It also adds more oomph when you see the mishmash of rooms once the Tower transforms.

this one cool looking guy years ago in high school was obsessed with DMC
he probably liked DMC more than his GF
he was pretty cool

>Actually, you can backtrack through most of the tower and back to Dante's shop on later missions before entering Leviathan.

Yeah, but that is kind of my problem. It's technically a "place" you explore, but it's extremely fucking hard to wrap your head around. In something like Resident Evil you feel like you know the Spencer Mansion, and a lot of that carries over into Devil May Cry 1.

Temenigru on the other hand just fails to leave an overall impression, there's cool parts of the tower but it never really comes together into something greater than the sum of its parts.

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>it's extremely fucking hard to wrap your head around
Only if you are a brainlet

Its pretty easy to actually grasp how the tower works and probably to even map it out to an extent if someone cared, I think the only really confusing room visually is the giant space where the gigapede fight happens because it doesnt look like it belongs inside the tower

I can see what you mean, but I disagree. Then again, I spent a lot of time just exploring the tower, so I may have learned its layout enough to visualize it in 3D in my head.