Prof bans the use of any IDEs in the lab

>Prof bans the use of any IDEs in the lab
>Only allows us to use vim/emacs and GCC
>I ask him why
>Laughs in my face and says IDEs promote sloppy programming and bad habits
>Says I have it easy because back when he started he used punchcards
>mfw this idiot is teaching programming

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Now hundreds of fizzbuzzers will angrily post saying that a text editor and a compiler is all you need.

You don't need an IDE for C

He's teaching programming, yes. Unfortunately programming won't be particularly useful to you in your career of being a code monkey, where you'll just bash your face on the keyboard until the result passess the unit tests someone else wrote for you.

He's not wrong though.
IDEs promote not thinking about your code but just typing and using the suggestions.
For college size projects you shouldn't *need* an IDE because it will be pretty self contained.

And the refactoring stuff also suggests not thinking before working. So for a learning experience I think IDEs are actually bad. For working, things change quite a bit.

In theory, it IS all you need. In a real world enviroment, having an IDE helps you a lot. Teacher surely is one of those "hurr durr in my times everything was better"

>go to india
>no computers
>cs taught using pencil and paper
>10 year old textbooks
>instructors with forged certificates

You think YOUR professor has it tough

Are you paying to attend that class? I would ask for my money back.

>things that never happened
my prof forced us to use MS word and find a way to convert it to plaintext so we could compile it

Consider yourself lucky.

There emacs and vim (and maybe gedit, but it was kind of a jock) were the only editors installed on our lab computers.

And the teacher had the habit to take all the mouses.

No wonder Indians are so fucking bad at it

Did they at least give out foot pedals to the emacs users?

>all these people agreeing with the professor

The problem with programmers today is they fixate on what they like and shun everything else when it should be fixate on anything programming because it's fucking interesting.

Programming went from personal interest and excitement to, "what's the biggest money making app these days?"

emacs -nw works actually pretty well.

>baby needs his IDE to hand hold him

one my community college classes taught the fundamentals of Javascript in this method. To be fair though, it was a low level class worth 2 credits, and the teacher was actually a Pajeet. We then "converted" our writings to a shitty IDE like Blue J, at home.

Literally the worst experience I ever had in school. Maybe it was just Blue J though.

>not using evil mode for emacs

Question is pajeet, why do YOU need an IDE ?.

He's not wrong though. It forces you to think about your code more than an IDE. There's nothing wrong with either way of programming. For basic C, you should have no problem using a text editor.

That being said, I like IDEs because I can constantly compile and make sure nothing is fucked. I don't know if you can do similar in VIM because I've never used it kek.

>make a living writing tools and algorithms to make complex work simpler
>refuse to use tools that make your own work simpler
I'll never understand this mentality in programmers

>IDE

Dijkstra never used computers, and he contributed more to CS than anyone.

>Despite having invented much of the technology of software, Dijkstra eschewed the use of computers in his own work for many decades. Even after he succumbed to his UT colleagues' encouragement and acquired a Macintosh computer, he used it only for e-mail and for browsing the World Wide Web.[104] Dijkstra never wrote his articles using a computer. He preferred to rely on his typewriter and later on his Montblanc pen.[105] Dijkstra's favorite writing instrument was the Montblanc Meisterstück fountain pen. He repeatedly tried other pens, but none ever displaced the Montblanc.

>He had no use for word processors, believing that one should be able to write a letter or article without rough drafts, rewriting, or any significant editing. He would work it all out in his head before putting pen to paper, and once mentioned that when he was a physics student he would solve his homework problems in his head while walking the streets of Leiden.[15] Most of Dijkstra's publications were written by him alone. He never had a secretary and took care of all his correspondence alone.[106] When colleagues prepared a Festschrift for his sixtieth birthday, published by Springer-Verlag, he took the trouble to thank each of the 61 contributors separately, in a hand-written letter.[107]

I want the devops to go.

He should also ban paper and writing implements since they promote inconsistency by allowing you to erase mistakes. All note taking should be done using stone slabs and chisels.

And they should do away with electricity and air conditioning as well. Back in my day everyone learned in a single room lit by candles. All these newfangled inventions make you soft.

They're mostly bad at it because they barely grasp the language of the person handing out their assignments and don't actually comprehend what's being assigned to them.

I'm sure the schools play into it, but in my experience it's really the language barrier.

>LOL WHO NEEDS SYNTAX HIGHLIGHTING FUCKING KIDS THESE DAYS

You're right, both sides of programming are okay, but the professor is saying that IDE's are shit when they should be embraced as their own concept instead of grouped in this ambiguous definition of programming the professor has created.

>needing an IDE for schoolwork

just drop out now.

> Syntax and error highlighting are bad and waste time

vim and emacs do this though

>converted Javascript to Blue J, a Java IDE.

Who is the real Pajeet in this story?

Both vim and emacs are god tier.

>>Laughs in my face and says IDEs promote sloppy programming and bad habits. Says I have it easy because back when he started he used punchcards

Old people today still living in his weird habits of 70s

>When colleagues prepared a Festschrift for his sixtieth birthday, published by Springer-Verlag, he took the trouble to thank each of the 61 contributors separately, in a hand-written letter.
He seriously must've loved that fountain pen.

And they are IDEs. At least Emacs is.

read the OP at least

>I'm going to type some stupid extremist strawman
If he banned things because they're too easy sure, he's being a dick. But he's banning things that generate code or fix mistakes for you which makes no sense in a class. You're not learning programming if by pressing a button in Eclipse it fixes 200 errors.
In a lab I can kind of get IDEs, but in tests they almost always restrict you to simple editors.

also, its a text editor, not ide

>But moooooooooooooooooooom, I need syntax and error highlighting for hello world!!!!

I see 'web development general' posting in your near future gentlemen.

>But he's banning things that generate code or fix mistakes for you
So they just invented an IDE that solves the halting problem. That's news to me.

Do you also code blindfolded with your toes only?

not even that. The point of an IDE is how it eases the management and organization of large projects. When you're writing fizz buzz in javascript, an ide just gets in the way

cs.utexas.edu/~EWD

Put it this way, he used a fountain pen to write about 500 articles

In my intro to c++ class we didn't use ides either. Pretty sure it's standard practice to only use a text editor in a class. I used notepad++ and had no issue completing assignments, that was my first time programming. So suck it up, and deal with it.

>fountain pen
Lol what a pussy, REAL programmers smear poo on paper with their fingers

> lol, all you faggots do is hello world
> I've graduated to the glorious fizz buzz

Why don't you try some professional work, kiddo?

I actually don't use IDEs because I feel they make the task more complex. Most seem to have a very confusing interface, and I feel like they try to hide the build system from me.

>GCC

geez it's almost like we're talking about schoolwork here or something

>I need an IDE to wipe my chin for me
>bro, but I need auto-complete

Yes. Yes. You are correct little one.

there is autocomplete on vim and emacs as well though.

Seems like a lot of people actually like IDE's here.
Can someone explain why?
I mean I get the appeal of the intelligent editor, but that is not what I am talking about.
Some is worse than others in this regard, but they all come with some sort of horrible tiling beast, where you get a lot of windows tiled in a way so you can't see what is on any of them.
Why?
Why aren't they just letting the window manager handle that for the users?
Because it is never done in a sensible way.
I assume that I am not the only one who wants to view the code in fullscreen, maybe I could sacrifice a small portion to show a detailed error message at the same time as I see where the error is, but anything more and it gets unusable.

Am I alone in this line of thinking?

It's great when you're working with a large set of files or APIs.

And a good IDE lets you put the text editor in fullscreen...

Using Blue J in Java course at uni, can confirm for pajeet-poo-in-the-loo tier ide. Wish i don't have to take the course, but is obligatory for the degree

Because this is America

Because this is America

no makefiles

what?

You can use an IDE later if you get a programming job, OP. Try to learn something from this instead of whining on a listserv for Lithuanian recipes. And have some respect for yourself and for history.

Most people use cmake or qmake anyway, that is not something that is exclusive to an IDE.

it is a good idea to have a strong foundation before using an IDE. You are learning to program, not be a code monkey.

>dissing on /wdg/
C'mon man, we're the future of computing.

R-right?

>forcing GCC
I'd leave just for that alone

IMHO, feel free to debate on this, but i think for cs101/102 you should only be able to use a text editor and your compiler. It helps you truly understand why things work at first rather than your ide doing them for you. Maybe its just because thats how my uni was.

emacs is worth learning though

what autistic compiler would you choose and why would it matter

That's also the right way to do it because IDEs are totally useless at that level

It's just a shill, don't reply.

Pajeet pls

yep exactly! if you're learning basic control flow you don't need an IDE, but people still use them because they have build in error checking, but then they fail the tests because tehy can't write basic shit out by hand. Oh well, more jobs for us.

That's the right way. You can use an ide after you've learned it the hard way. Using vim and similar forces you to actually think about what you're programming rather than shitting out code quickly.

>forces you to actually think about what you're programming
>spend two hours of googling trying to find the keyboard combination to refactor a block of code

if you have to refactor anything that's not search and replace in a school size "learn how to program" project, you didn't think about your code and are the reason that statemant is valid.

you can fuck right off to reddit with a pathetic sense of humor like that.

>school size "learn how to program" project
Is the most complex program you wrote in school fizzbuzz?

>you didn't think about your code
In the real world, specifications change. In the real world, you need to change other people's shitty code.

If you don't learn the functionality of at least 1 IDE, you're setup to fail in the real world.

stop spouting popsci shit, code generation is not impossible

complexity =/= size

And I'm pretty sure you don't need to go to school to learn how to use an IDE

>being pedantic
>conveniently skipping over all of the important points

What does he think of sublime text?

I use VS2013 with ReSharper at work and no, I don't think it's better than a properly extended vim.

It does use 200x as much memory though.

I honestly can't go back to a bloated IDE after using sublime

You don't need to go to school to learn about anything. But if you're going to school to learn how to program professionally, then you shouldn't waste your time learning the hard way before the easy and realistic way.

uh, no.

You don't learn how to code by learning how to use an IDE. That's two different things

>dumbass professor says we have to use Eclipse
>do everything in vim
>have the highest grade in the class

who /smug/ here?

The only thing I like about IDEs is the ability to press a button and have the compiler check for errors / do a quick test run and figure out runtime errors. For home programming I always just used a text editor. I do like my mouse support though; I dislike using the keyboard as text input AND control device. Maybe that will change in the future but not for now.
At work I use Eclipse because the program I'm maintaining is fuckhuge and simple interpreter and subversion integration is convenient.

>working with large files or APIs
>APIs

Ohoho, the ugly head of the hipster 'programmers' rears it ugly head once again.

whats the matter baby cant code without an IDE to hold his wittle hand?

...

You went to a shit school.

The point is that using something like Vim will get in your way when you're still learning to program. An IDE simplifies the process and if you have the patience, you can learn Vim later. If you're not programming something large enough to require an IDE, then you are going to a shit school.

>no makefiles

What do you think these IDEs do in the backend? Wow, these neo-programmers are babby tier.

>not writing your code directly to disc using pins

>professor allows us to use whatever IDE or editor we want
>it doesn't matter as long as the program is good
i know it's a strange and confusing idea, Sup Forums

Of course you are, even if you aren't you'll still get a participation trophy.

How do IDE's promote not thinking about my code?

I use an IDE on a daily basis and have since starting to program.

The most important feature is it makes me type faster. That's it. I can use descriptive variable names because ANameLikeThis auto completes after ana and I don't have to explicitly remember variable names.

Of course, something catching errors as you type must be bad compared to writing everything out and then getting 100 errors at the end and not realizing they all are happening because the 1 error and getting discouraged because that's "real" programming.

er, the other way around actually. Vim is a clean straightforward application whereas an IDE provides a bunch of unnecessary cruft and abstraction that provides no benefit to the beginner programmer.

If you can't be bothered to learn how to issue commands from an command line then you don't have enough time to learn what the output directory structure is of the IDE either...

woah looks like you answered your own question there, buddy

>an IDE is just a text editor with an “execute compile batch script” button
>implying you will ever need this

If you are asking if you can turn VIM or Emacs into a pseudo IDE then the answer is yes you can, but then what the fuck is the point of not just letting people use IDE's?

I don't understand new programmers trying to force people to do it their way, instead of learning how its actually done properly.

Its like a basketball novice telling people to shoot underhanded from 2 feet away, just cause its easier for them, instead of learning to shoot the ball properly from anywhere on the court.