Lots of small changes, none of these are live yet.
GPUs: -Changed the GTX 750 Ti to GTX 950 in Fair tier
CPUs: -Instead of a Celeron and a Pentium option, two Celerons, and two Pentiums, in the Minimum and Entry tiers. -Added the G4400 to Modest. Also changed the required mobos and RAM type. -Removed the 860K from one tier. -Moved the 6300 up a tier. -Added the i3 to a new tier. Now we have two tiers with 6350, two with the i3.
SSDs: -Removed the 120GB option from Superb. Now, the first tier in which SSDs are recommended starts with 256GB. -Removed the "fast 256GB" options from the relevant tier (850 Pro/Extreme Pro). Added 500GB options instead.
RAM (not shown, working on it): -Excellent tier (and all above) should have 2400MHz RAM. Or should I make 2400MHz the default, and ignore 2133? -Enthusiast tier and above should have 3000MHz RAM, or faster.
The RAM changes are in response to articles showing that DDR4 RAM speed has a higher impact on performance than DDR3 speeds.
Don't you think its time to add some H170 or B150 motherboards?
Jaxson Rivera
>no macbook tier
Juan Robinson
I probably will, now that the G4400 is in there.
Jackson Bell
It would also be a good idea to pair one if not both with the I3-6100 to save $20-$40.
Elijah Cooper
Indeed, at least with one i3, since we have two tiers with that now.
Zachary Bell
You comments, suggestions, and criticisms are welcome.
Julian Bell
I think using your tripcode outside of logicalincrements threads or on posts relating to logicalincrements is plainly retarded and bad practice
Nolan Butler
knowing where he is allows you to call him out if he needs to update logical increments or whatever. the tripcode gives a semblance of confidence that you're talking to the right guy and not just some idiot who's bored and wants to troll some people.
Sup Forums allows you to post without registering. if you think you're truly "anonymous", you're a fucking retard. get over this Sup Forumstard mentality and either ignore the name field or use it to inform the post's credibility (up or down). stop posting about it, because you just sound like a fucking faggot.
Jason Perry
Is there a potato masher/super toaster budget build available on this thing?
Carson Martinez
if you can't scrounge together $170 for a computer, you should be looking for work, not building desktops.
Mason Gray
170? Try 300 dollars, or current console prices. I'm feeling the itch to assemble an emulator build, too bad the anniversary pentium cpu build is no longer viable.
Henry Gutierrez
there's a destitute tier build for $170. if you're asking for a "potato masher budget" recommendation, I assumed it fell somewhere below the lowest budget.
Cameron Brown
Just buy a tablet
Brody Bennett
1- It would be a major hassle if I were to remove the tripcode and put it back on for every PC building related thread. 2- Are we not supposed to judge each post by its content, instead of by who posted it?
You can get by with a Raspberry Pi. But these builds are "gaming oriented", so even the absolutely cheapest tier can play old games. Any cheaper, and your gaming capabilities get impaired.
Levi Rogers
Gj Mr logical increments
Gavin Ramirez
For $300 you should be looking at used parts for sure. Used i5-2400, new lga 1155 mobo is like $100-120. 8GB ram is like $40. PSU, consider a decent quality used one for $40. Then the rest goes to GPU, used 7950 perhaps. As for case, just find something.
Adam Mitchell
As long as the premium isn't a lot I think it's fine to increase the speed of the recommended ram in the "normal" tiers.
Jaxson Ross
>As for case, just find something. An old Nintendo case.
Ryan James
I am looking into it. It seems that now 2400MHz is the same price as 2133, so might as well use that as the minimum speed.
Mason Sanders
Ah in that case no reason not to I suppose. It won't make an appreciable difference in most cases but it can't really be worse.
Josiah Anderson
I'm on a Haswell refresh build, should I get the highest DDR3 RAM supported by my mobo or will that make no real difference?
Hudson Davis
I was just going to make a thread Using a 2009 MAD 955 w/ a 7870, what's the best CPU upgrade? Looking at the FX-8350 but I'd like more speed or oc potential
It looks like the performance increase is worth it up to ~3000MHz, if you can afford it.
For you on DDR3, 1600/1866 is fine.
Bentley Turner
Are you as excited as I am for the looming Polaris, (smaller) Pascal, and Zen releases?
Jason Collins
Hey Falcon, just wanna say thanks for being so ridiculously caring. I posted a quick anonymous question on your site a while ago expecting it to be lost, but you gave a really long and thoughtful response that seriously helped me out. You're the best, keep saving us all!
Hudson Jones
The $200 price point really deserves some love. I hope that the RX 480 is a knockout.
You are most welcome. Hopefully this helps Sup Forums as much as Sup Forums has helped me.
Dylan Sullivan
Interesting reads, thanks.
I really hope Zen shakes the market, AMD catching up to Intel in IPC will play merry hob with market prices.
Brody Phillips
>Looking at the FX-8350 but I'd like more speed or oc potential That is AMD's best chip at the moment, barring the 9xxx stuff. If you want more power than that, you will need to switch to the dark side, maybe 6600K?
Daniel Jackson
I think we're supposed to judge if the post is all about technology.
Yours, however, is just plain and simple consumerism.
get the fuck out to
Joshua Robinson
I'm willing to spend 30-60 more for the 9xxx's But I don't want to shell out if a release is nearby then see their prices fall
>Intel >Buy a mobo Not unless I picked up a Xeon board and processors for cheap
Ian Bailey
I find that the increased price and pricier required HSF make the FX 9xxx series illogical, when compared to the competition. Might as well save your $$$ and stick with a 8350/6350 instead. If you are gaming, you can use the saved $$$ to get a better GPU, which will have a more significant impact on your gaming.
Chase Cox
Foul coon is foul
Chase Green
Any feedback on the CPU changes?
Elijah Ramirez
Needs more AMD
Christopher Watson
AMD has slowly been shrinking, when it comes to CPUs. If Intel had the brains to put the HD530 into its Skylake Celerons, it would do even better.
Hopefully, Zen will be good. AMD needs it.
Asher Lee
>Yours, however, is just plain and simple consumerism. And you think "consumerism" is mutually exclusive with technology? Or that computer parts aren't technology? Fuck off. A lot of technology is nothing but products so discussion about them is expected and even warranted. A well thought out thread about computer parts is a heck of a lot better than "should I buy this" "hey I just purchased" "how'd i do Sup Forums" "my first build" "is this worth it" etc catalog clutter.
Xavier Cruz
We're gonna get an explosion of AMD when Zen comes out. The shit wrecker did work on it.
Hudson Jenkins
>And you think "consumerism" is mutually exclusive with technology?
Absolutely yes. Money is no object. If you're more into comparing prices or on "why buy X when you ought to get Y instead" memes, fuck off to your materialism boards like
James Russell
Falcon, question about this.
In Mexico for whatever reason 1150 motherboards are really rare or overpriced right now.
I was thinking of selling the I5-4460 i got and get a I5-6500 together with a H170 or a Z170 motherboard. Is this a bad idea?
The i5-4460 has been laying there for a few months already and i haven't got the chance to use it because this anyway.
Jaxon Long
You mean an explosion of disappointment that's as timely as fusion power
Juan Evans
If the total price (6500 price + 1151 mobo - revenue from selling 4460) is fine by you, go ahead. Just keep in mind that you will need DDR4 RAM as well, if you already have DDR3 and were not taking that into account.
That said: The performance increase from 4460 to 6500 is small, so going either way is fine. Whatever saves you $$$ is the best option.
Adam Johnson
Since i would be using the IGPU for a while i do see a great advantage of doing this because skylake IGPUS and DDR4 RAM. Also the I5-4460 apparently doesn't met the minimum VR requeriments so this means i wont have to upgrade if i ever want to use it. Also faster M2 slot.
Also, yes it would be really expensive, some motherboards are even twice the price they should be. Getting a Z97 motherboard would be as expensive as get a Z170 and a third of the I5-6500, other motherboards are out stock and they have been since january.
John Russell
>$40 case in the destitute tier
Are there really no cheaper cases out there? Seems kinda expensive
Lucas Ward
Cases can be bought for $20 and they will function just as well. It's just that OP will stop getting money from NZXT if he puts a cheaper case in the guide.
Jackson Harris
>some motherboards are even twice the price they should be. Go for it then!
That is the price of the cheapest "good" cases. But I will make another check. You are right, $40 is a bit too much for that tier.
Jordan Anderson
Yes if you want to sacrifice airflow, number of fans, USB 3.0, looks, how HDDs you can put on it, backspace, quality and how easy is to use it.
If you sacrifice all that you csn even go lower as $25-30. Not worth it IMO.
Carter Davis
Anyone have any experience with cases that come with their own PSU? How is the PSU?
Ian Evans
Rule No.1 of building a PC.
Never cheap out in your PSU.
Luis Ramirez
Usually, cases that have free PSUs are trash/fire hazard/ishygddt tier.
I will be afking for a couple of hours, then checking back on this thread. Please give me more suggestions, comments, and criticisms. Thank you.
Logan Howard
I know that, I want to know if anyone has any horror stories to share. I know the diablotek case + psu combo was hell. So was the rosewill case + psu. But that was a while ago.
They are almost acceptable for low power machines but you should avoid them unless you want to play Russian roulette with your PC.
Just get a cheap EVGA PSU if you cant afford a good one.
Thomas Bell
My first PC 15 years ago utilized a case which came with some antec PSU. Luckily the thing lasted for about 5 years before finally dying. PSU quality has certainly improved since then so you would probably be okay, but I would still recommend buying your psu and case separately. If you have to wait another week or two in order to afford doing that then so be it.
Owen Moore
>EVGA >SuperNova G2 / P2 / T2 Super Flower
Whoa what, since when did SuperNova G2 become Tier 1? I have a 750w G2.
Sebastian Murphy
I'm assuming you are talking about regular mid/full tower cases and not HTTP and mini itx cases which sometimes come with their own PSU. The latter usually are good PSU so no need to worry about them, but they are usually pricier too.
Any advantage for picking a "Z" mobo instead of a H170 if I'm not going to overclock? For an i5 6500
Brandon Edwards
You can use higher RAM speeds but really you should just get the cheapest H110 board with 2*8GiB DDR4-2133 RAM. The extra cost is not worth it.
Zachary Morgan
That's idiotic, forget about the money and prices. What about the discussion about the plethora of different kinds of products which are technology and you yourself probably use every day? Are you a consumerist whore for purchasing a computer? Something like audio and computer electronics aren't suited to any other board than this. A lot of that discussion probably involves products but it isn't the only topic.
Jonathan Gutierrez
Depends on the motherboards.
Just get a GA-Z170XP-SLI and call it a day.
Jonathan Thomas
The problem is that prices scale up really quick from importing+resellers so that one ends up costing around $250 here in South America
Jack Stewart
>What about the discussion about the plethora of different kinds of products which are technology and you yourself probably use every day?
They are as you say it: products. Not technology per se, but products. Such rampant consumerism ought not to be of this board, and we'd be better keen on discussing actual technology (e.g. the differing implementations of video card hardware, versus their mere price.)
Carter Hughes
just rob some tourists like everyone else does in your country.
Owen Bailey
Thanks Falcon. Invaluable newbie guide. I've used it as a base myself.
I assume it'll need a serious update when Summit Ridge and Kaby Lake comes out, as well as Vega, Raven Ridge and friends, depending on how it all costs and performs of course. And how Intel responds on price.
For now, eh, if you really have to get a PC now. I've personally advised waiting until Q4 at this point. There is such a thing as a bad time to buy a PC.
Antec used to be Tier 1 PSUs, many moons ago. That was a long time ago; they fell somewhat. Their cases are still pretty good however. GF's PC has an Antec P100 (buttons on top disqualified Fractal Design, because the PC is where a cat could sleep on it) and it's a joy to work with.
You never go full cardboard PSU. Even with a potato PC, unless you want to seriously risk a baked potato. They are genuinely terrifying inside, could never recommend them to anyone for any price with a clear conscience.
I haven't seen a cheap case/PSU bundle with a decent PSU, because, well, cheap.
Noah Peterson
I doubt that much will change. even if all the info we have on Zen is true, it's still below skylake performance and kaby lake doesn't bring much improvement either. both of these might not be in stock until december/january and who want's to buy them directly on release anyway? waiting so long for a little price drop doesn't seem worth it for me.
Lincoln Smith
They are both, obviously. The price aspect is boring but the technology in these PRODUCTS is not and definitely belongs to this board. Say, you want to discuss about the video codec on a new GPU model. Would you "fuck off to Sup Forums" to discuss muh gayman product video card? Microsoft just acquired LinkedIn for a ridiculous amount of money? /biz/ right because this isn't technology related?
Nathaniel Mitchell
>still no mobile site FALCON REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Asher Bennett
>Say, you want to discuss about the video codec on a new GPU model. Would you "fuck off to Sup Forums" to discuss muh gayman product video card?
Absolutely yes, fuck off to unless you want to talk shop about how the various codecs perform on the said card, and how various minutiae especially against displays affect the visual quality (or heck, even talk about how {,in}accurate color reproduction is.)
If you want to talk about money (and its so obvious,) be a jew and go to .
Ryder Jackson
>if you want to talk about money go to Sup Forums You mean /biz/, also no one talks about money in pol
Dominic Garcia
Yes per Was much alluding to the obvious jewing.
Asher Morgan
I bought an "apevia" 1100w PSU back in 2009.
I read some reviews of it that said that it was actually perfectly efficient at ~600w actual power draw and it was cheap as fuck.
It exploded on me in 2014 or early 2015, can't remember exactly. Came back to apt after a while away and turned on the power supply: something went pop, and the magic smoke got out.
Nothing in computer got harmed though, dunno if that's my gigabyte golden dildo mobo or the PSU saved me from itself
Christian Harris
I feel like picking the motherboard is still the hardest part. on the guide the text on them is literally copy pasted for multiple boards, I guess there's just not much of a difference but this makes it hard to choose.
how the fuck am I supposed to choose between pic related? doesn't one of the manufacturers have some advantage over the others? (better bios or reliability or something)
Asher Williams
I didn't know the guy behind logical increments was one of Sup Forums's own tripfags. I found your chart very useful for my first PC build, thank you for making it.
Julian Fisher
honestly the only things that matter to me in a mobo:- >it doesn't throttle anything >it has at least 3 year warranty >has 2 lan ports >has at least 4 usb ports
all the meme tier hd audio gimmicks are wastes of money, and I doubt that e.g. the capacitor quality of the highly-priced end is actually that different from the ones in your pic
Oliver James
First one to go on sale. I just got an MSI Z-170A Pro for only $80 off newegg just before the sale ended.
Carter Parker
Pro tip for gigabyte the UD stands for ultra durable and the single digit after it denotes how high in the lineup it is, so a UD 5 is going to be more expensive than UD 3 even though the chipset is the same UD 9 is the top of the line shit that is 300 dollars
Joseph Wright
Am back.
Superflower OEM. On the same tier as Seasonic!
Some additional features, such as extra expansions slots for everything. If you do not need those, and you are sure you do not want to overclock, you can buy a lesser chipset.
>There is such a thing as a bad time to buy a PC. That is true, if you have a working machine and you have no need for a new one. But there will always be people who need machines "this week", or even "just lost my PC, and I work from home, need to buy a new machine TODAY" people.
The site was re-written from scratch to be responsive. But mobile needs a full redesign. Tables and mobiles are enemies.
Caleb Smith
Very often, manufacturers will price similarly-featured products at a similar price point. So the mobo from Asus, and the same-price competition from Gigabyte, will have very similar features.
Look for the better warranty, if the products are otherwise the same. If the warranty is ALSO identical... pick based on colour.
Guide has been shaped by Sup Forums since 2010.
Wow... that is 6 years! Have I been here that long?
Adam White
Holy shit, guess I have you to thank for building my first PC. Good job user!
Levi Peterson
Most welcome. It is a community effort. The suggestions, comments, and criticisms I get in threads like these (and in email, too) are what makes it a good guide.
Levi Butler
Also: I plan to change the pop-up description for mobos to be like pic related, either this week, or next week. Hopefully, that will be more helpful than what there is now.
Ethan Howard
Thank you mr falcon for the site.
I bought a Z97-PRO a while ago and I want to upgrade my main drive from a crappy Kingston 120gb SSD to a faster and larger one (also using this as an excuse to reinstall windows etc).
Should I be looking into M2 drives instead of SSD?
Thank you
Cameron Harris
Looks good with extra information. Maybe also add something regarding audio outputs? (I spent a while looking for a card with audio coax for my sound system and had to give up in the end).
Also I always struggle to scroll over items down. The popup menu goes below the item but if I want to check the description of the one it is covering I need to move the mouse around for then go downwards. Not sure how you could go around this though.
Dylan Perez
Just checked. Maybe you just need to increase the spacing between the "box" and the "popup" just a tiny bit more. If I mouse over slowly down between boxes then everything is fine... if I go any faster then the mouse goes into the box and does not fade into the popup box on the item below.
Michael Hernandez
I have a Sandisk Ultra II, a Crucial BX100, and a Samsung SM951 (the prequel to the 950 Pro). In day-to-day usage, I do not feel the difference in speed between them, to be honest.
If the M2 drive you are looking at is similar (or close) in price to the SATA alternative, go for it. Otherwise, you are not missing out on much by sticking to a SATA SSD.
Brayden Jackson
The popup is handled by a third party plugin: Qtip. Unfortunately, it loads the images only AFTER the popup is "popped", so it loads the popup with a smaller size the first time.
I am aware of the issue, but I am not sure what I can do about it. Will look into, if there is time.
Jose Moore
I can confirm. I have a W10 install on both my SSDs just so I can test this.
There is literally no difference in normal usage between my 950 Pro and my Seagate 600 SSD.
Though some games with larger loading screens do see a small benefit from the increased speed. Its not worth the cost if that's all you're after though.
Jackson Brooks
Just get the Intel SSD 750. It goes directly into a PCIe slot instead of using the meme M2 formfactor.
>meme M2 formfactor I mean, M.2 is a great form factor and if you can get an M.2 NVMe drive and your board supports x4 PCIe 3.0 M.2 drives, by all means, it's electrically identical to a "normal" PCIe SSD, but lies flat against the motherboard out of the way.
That being said, it's not worth a price premium.
Carter Peterson
>telling the guy who made logical increments to go back to Sup Forums
No friendo, you fuck off to Sup Forums
Michael Turner
Thank you kind anons.
Is my drive about to rip in bytes? It feels substantially slower than it used to be.
Dominic Cruz
>Is my drive about to rip in bytes? Looks healthy. But 128GB is a small amount, considering today's capacities and prices.
Carter King
Where GeFroce 1060 TI belongs there?
Carter Taylor
i'd upgrade to a nice 850 pro or 850 evo, either 250 or 500GB size.
Those speeds aren't great, but its an older drive and pretty small capacity so its not that unusual. It was also never meant to be a high performance SSD. That being said, it's still slower than it would be new.
Here is my Seagate 600 480GB SSD.
Matthew Sanchez
Fuck off, Falcon
Tyler Lewis
KINGSTON I N G S T O N
Dominic Thomas
and my 950 pro just for comparisons sake.
Nicholas Rogers
Depends on its price, and performance. Most of all, it needs to exist first.
