I literally never use the computer without a mouse. Should I bother learning VIM? Or can I just stick with Sublime?
Does proficient use of VIM actually lead to increased productivity or is it just a meme? I understand the benefit if you're working remotely and don't have a full mouse + keyboard but it seems silly to use an editor which actively ignores the fact that I have a mouse sitting in front of me.
For those that use VIM as their daily drivers: how long did it take for you to prefer VIM to traditional editors?
VIM is a meme. Emacs is a meme. Linux in general is a meme.
No fucking clue why people waste time with all of that clunky shit. Just use windows and notepad++.
Juan Martinez
Vim integrates well under linux therefor it is a part of the toolchain. Vim is very useful if you learn how to use it, but of equal importance is that you configure it heavily, don't do the whole "sane defaults" shit, you will die.
You're a fucking dummy, don't talk to me.
Carter Ross
>"Clunky shit" >uses windows >guranteed replies >promoted to troll lord extreme by GNAA
Levi Barnes
shitson, i need to git gud
Joseph Nguyen
that first record/repeat 98 times is just retarded, just use: :r!seq 1 100 and be done with it
Grayson Robinson
Fuck, i want to install OSX just for that gorgeous font rendering
Jack Nguyen
Do whatever you want. You sound like an idiot, so you probably won't benefit from using vim and will declare it a "meme" regardless.
Of course you can stick with Sublime. What kind of question even is that? You can continue to keep using anything that serves your purposes. To get the most benefit, you should use whatever provides an interface powerful enough to sate your usage capabilities. If you can't mentally handle more than a couple of keybinds and need a visual indicator and one-to-one input device just to navigate, then don't try to use an editor built for people who are above that.
Kevin Butler
It is nice to know how to use at least one text editor you can use over ssh to edit some remote files without downloading/editing/reuploading or having to start a remote desktop application.
Nathaniel Gomez
autism
Ayden Price
You don't need vim or emacs but for the sake of your productivity master the key bindings of Sublime Text. Be able to select and edit multiple lines, swap them, change their case style, go to line X and column Y with the keyboard, go to file Z on so on. It will save you hours per week and programming will be less frustrating.
Honestly I know that this kind of habits is unrelated from a programmer skill but it really makes you sound like an intern or a student. One day you'll have a situation bad enough (unclean code, shitty file as input) on your hand to solve it with shortcuts. Shortcuts can complete every task in parallel, a mouse can't.
Mason Johnson
>another prime example for useless shit
Ethan King
emacs can edit remote files just fine
Logan Turner
Pretty sure that sublime has an emulated vim mode built in, it uses all the same key binds, can't remember how it's enabled
Wyatt Morris
you just configure the settings and remove Vintage mode from ignored_packages
Christian Clark
>Is VIM a meme
Yes.
Michael Peterson
It can't since it's not installed by default on RHEL and for business critical machines you dont want usless packages installed just because a random neckbeard cant understand how vim works
Adam Cooper
Feels pretty bad using shitty vi which is all most boxes have, but still an upgrade over nano for sure.
Austin Garcia
Visual Studio is the only thing you should be using to code. VIM/emacs are for snowflakes.
Levi Morgan
>notepad++ The dev declared that anyone who voted FN in France's last elections is obliged to uninstall notepad++. Thus, he equates himself with the scum that are ruining France (and because of whom most people who voted FN did it). Good riddance.
Isaac Hill
>2016 >thinking any serious users on Sup Forums are dumb enough for windows
Jeremiah Harris
VS might be tolerable if it wasn't for Windows.
Ethan Nelson
Sublime and other GUI text editors are slow as fuck to do anything on. Using your mouse means you're already being slower than using Vim which is designed to never take your hands off the keyboard.
You can't do things faster with only 1 hand on the keyboard as opposed to 2 now can you nigger?
Chase Torres
Just use IDEs
I haven't had a single good experience with texteditors.
I guess sublime text is kinda okay but that's about it.
Jordan Murphy
Emacs has Tramp built-in, which let's you edit files remotely. That means that you only need emacs on your dev machine and not the servers you're targeting. You misunderstood.
Camden Young
Yes. Apart from the low key latency compared to web based shit tier editors there is nothing compelling about it.
Jace Brown
>without downloading/editing/reuploading
But this is so much better than remote editing.
Ian Hill
I have heard that sublime is good. I have no knowledge of it at all, though.
Vim is good enough that when I am at work and have to use an IDE, I install a vim plugin, which gives a few of the benefits of vim.
Kevin Russell
sublime isn't web based
Elijah Ortiz
>For those that use VIM as their daily drivers: how long did it take for you to prefer VIM to traditional editors? Maybe a week? Hard to remember, I've been using vim for so long that I can't even imagine what it was like before
Hunter Kelly
>Sublime and other GUI text editors are slow as fuck to do anything on. you're a fucking idiot
Austin Bennett
>IDEs
lol
Xavier Garcia
IDEs are bloat cancer literally made for codemonkeys who need their hands held
Michael Jenkins
IDEs are great for dumber programmers, user :^) Let them be.
Kayden Sanchez
You're ignoring the fact that a mouse can target a specific character with the flick of a wrist where VIM will require several key inputs. There is an argument to be made about not having to switch from "1 hand on keyboard, 1 on mouse" "2 hands on keyboard" but don't write off the mouse entirely.
Christopher Bailey
>You're ignoring the fact that a mouse can target a specific character with the flick of a wrist where VIM will require several key inputs.
f / ? t w e b
Choose one of those. Wow, so many keystrokes!
Matthew White
are you autistic?
Nolan Williams
A little bit. But at least I won't suffer from that delicious wrist pain.
Brandon Hernandez
You may find this video interesting, feel free to skip around: youtube.com/watch?v=aHm36-na4-4 Also once you get used to vim movement commands, it's hard to resist trying to use them in other editors. Luckily there are plugins for those.
Adam Brooks
>*tips fedora* This is why Sup Forums is so cancerous.
>Oh look at me I'm so much better than everyone else because I don't use a tool that makes a certain task easier without needing to spend more time configuring it than time spend on the actual task. Who do you think you're impressing?
Cameron Sullivan
> Calls an editor that has been around for about 25 years a "me-me", although this editor is shipped with virtually all distros for like forever. > Doesn't recognize Vim as a traditional editor despite being a quarter century old and based on an editor from the 70ies (vi). >Implies using a mouse (a pointing device) for text input.
Nigga stop trying so hard.
Camden Smith
>OP wants a serious discussion about the benefits and cons of vim >you, a literal retard underage child, go on an autistic rant about "memes" And that's why Sup Forums thinks WIndows users that post here consist almost entirely of vidya children.
Jack Cooper
You must be 18 or older to be here.
Dylan Cook
Not an argument.
Brandon Walker
Sublime text is a one man meme. Just like vim, only for another reason.
Daniel James
>doesn't provide any evidence as of to how i'm wrong
wew lad
>several inputs
Have you even used Vim?
If you're gonna tell me pressing letter d twice is slower than dragging your mouse to highlight an entire line of code and then pressing backspace to delete is faster you need to get your head checked m8.
If you have your hands off the keyboard, it's slower to work with, it's that fucking simple. Thats why Vi/Vim is on every GNU/Linux machine in the world and not slow shit like Sublime.
Jayden Brown
You have a large file open and need to move the cursor to a specific position.
j j j w w w l l l
or
*slide* *click*
Cooper Moore
You're completely fucking exaggerating. For starters, you can move up down by paragraphs and word for word way faster than that. You can also just find the word/char.
Stop being a faggot.
Wyatt Baker
More like
j j j w w w l l l
vs.
*move hands away from keyboard* *move head away from screen* *try to locate mouse device with eyes* *finally find it on the other side of the desk* *eat a couple of painkillers to combat the painful CTS you have from years of using a computer mouse* *very uncomfortably reach over and grab the mouse* *place hand on mouse* *slide it uncomfortably across the desk* *stop and move mug out of the way* *continue sliding mouse across desk* *finally, you awkwardly place the cursor over the line of text you want to place your cursor at* *click* *move hand away from mouse* *turn 90 degrees so you properly face your screen and keyboard again* *place hands on keys* *resume typing*
Gee, sure seems easier.
Aaron Young
you're both fucking exaggerating. selecting a line is just a double click in most editors 3jfX where X is the letter you're trying to get to or even just /foobar to jump to where you want to be too. I think that with Vim, not having to deal with the mouse makes things a lot faster and more pleasant. Once you learn the editor you can generally do whatever you want very quickly with marks and registers and clever use of regex in searches. With the mouse you have to deal with it being slower and more inaccurate thanks to being off to the side away from where you're typing. Without the mouse you have to put more thought into what you're doing if you want to do it well.
Andrew Mitchell
wtf i hate mice now
Nicholas Phillips
I would learn vim but I don't want to struggle for 3 months before I begin to not be 100% awful.
Wyatt Thomas
Windows is fucking clunky lol. I don't know how anyone gets anything done with all that shit just shitting up your computer. It takes AGESSSSS to fucking boot up, and even after you log in it goes slow for the first few minutes because it's opening all that spyware or whatever the fuck it's doing. Linux just boots in ten seconds and I'm ready to work.
Asher Miller
Not that guy but Sublime has a shortcut to delete lines, ctrl+shift+k And shortcuts for most of the basic tasks.. gist.github.com/nuxlli/1207014
Blake Adams
you'll be productive enough to get normal text editing done within the first day if you follow vimtutor. after that spend some time with derek wyatt's videos and you'll be up to speed within a month or two don't try to do this for something like a work project though, obviously. do it in spare time so you retain your productivity.
Landon Rogers
Even less with EasyMotion.
About 3 keystrokes to move anywhere.
Liam Russell
It doesn't take 3 months, it's actually really simple because Vim was designed will full logic in mind. Everything in it "makes sense", it really doesn't take long to pick up.
Follow this video and I'm willing to bet in a week you'll have the majority of it down.
Jaxon Morales
Looks like Vim 8 is going to put Emacs on suicide watch with the final arrival of official async support.
Juan Carter
heavy configuration should be something that the user arrives at organically rather than being handed in a lump right at the start
Landon Ramirez
>vim gets features decades after mainline emacs >"e-emacsfags on suicide watch!" Meanwhile in emacs 25
Elijah Kelly
Whats the elisp for that wich file is opened in the top? Or isnt that your emacs
Brayden Wood
This ain't the /chinkshit/ general.
Jacob Gray
>Idk whats computers Get out of Sup Forums
Bentley Phillips
> not using nano
Ryder Parker
>using memeo
Enjoy having less features than Vim and Emacs lmao
Jack Smith
Enjoy having useless features
Brayden Wilson
there's no productive programmer using linux
Liam Price
you can also slide and click in vim even though it defeats its purpose
Lucas Ross
What is the thing called in OP where it shows a scrollable miniature overview of the code off to the right?
Juan Adams
emacs + evil mode + footpedals
Colton Bailey
Use a trackball instead of a mouse if you must use a pointing device. Then send me the thousands of dollars you've saved by not developing CTS and needing medication and therapy for it. You'll still come out ahead by not having to go through the pain and suffering.
Carter Adams
sublime
Blake Lee
>I literally never use the computer without a mouse. Should I bother learning terminals? Or can I just stick with Unity?
>Does proficient use of terminal actually lead to increased productivity or is it just a meme? I understand the benefit if you're working remotely and don't have a full mouse + keyboard but it seems silly to use an interface which actively ignores the fact that I have a mouse sitting in front of me.
Thomas Perez
No I mean what is that feature I know what the program is called.
Jonathan Lopez
Emacs didn't die with neovim and it's not dying with vim8 either.
Owen Kelly
>>> Sup Forums
Juan Kelly
It's a useful text editor.
If you plan on working with servers, it's an absolute standard you should know how to use vim somewhat because pretty much everything at least has vi, especially if it's an old server (which is very common.)
It doesn't mean you need to live and breathe vim (but people like it for a reason is all we are saying senpai), but if you aren't comfortable with it, you cut yourself off in a few areas.
Elijah Lewis
Nano is great and simple for editing config files remotely, but complete shit for serious software development.
Liam Anderson
vim is good, but people who use it and are religiously anti-mouse are memes:
"This feels true but is false. There were some fascinating experiments done a few years ago in which people were given a long, tedious editing task. Some of the people were keyboard fans, some were mouse fans. Both folks were asked to do the task two ways, in random order, once using the mouse to do the editing, once using cursor keys etc. Regardless of their predilections, which was stated up front, after the experiment everyone who did the task agreed that it was faster to use the keyboard than the mouse to complete the task. Everyone. Here’s the kicker: everyone was wrong. They were being timed, and in fact the reverse was true. Although they thought the keyboard was faster, doing the task using the mouse was faster for everyone, by a substantial fraction.
The explanation, besides the obvious that arrow keys are actually pretty slow if you’re going more than a line or character, is that people feel the mouse wastes time because you need to grab it and move it, but it’s time well spent. The part of the brain that uses keyboard commands to move the cursor is a higher-order function, and thinking and planning how to use the keys to get to the destination blocks thinking about the editing task at hand. But using the mouse is done by a lower-order part of the brain, which keeps the editing part of the brain clear. There’s less task switching going on when you use the mouse, so you work more efficiently.
Programmers at decent companies aren't even allowed to use Windows. Sorry you work in some irrelevant shit hole and can't cut it with the big boys in SV.
Luis Green
It's called minimap.
Luis Martinez
It's probably worth noting that that study used an editor that wasn't like vim or emacs, the editor was not one that made it easy to jump around the text in the keyboard like they do. If you look at any vim user who's used it for more than a few months, you'll never see them go for the arrow keys and you'll never see them use hjkl to move more than a few lines without using a repeat modifier in front or just using one of (){}[];:/? to jump around more precisely. The same goes for emacs users.
Jonathan Robinson
minimap and it's completely useless.
Dylan Rogers
Minimap and multiple cursors are based and actually intuitive to use. Fight me.
Camden Powell
>hey let's see if Tom is as fast as Dick but chain Tom's legs together
Joshua Phillips
tag navigation, location stack, multiple buffers and code folding >>>>> minimap
every editor has multiple cursors, pretty sure vim probably invented it
This is a good point - the study is talking about specifically cursor keys. However, I'd be interested to see a modern study with an experienced vim/emacs user vs. someone using a mouse-driven editor. I imagine the results would be similar, but that's just based on my experience from using both types of editors and timing myself. Not a fool-proof study.
This doesn't change the main argument, though: using keys of any kind for navigation is a higher-order function and breaks the flow of thinking of the editing task at hand. This is really the main advantage of mouse-driven editors.
Brayden Green
>Does proficient use of VIM actually lead to increased productivity it might, but increased comfort is a given
>but it seems silly to use an editor which actively ignores the fact that I have a mouse sitting in front of me mouse is suited for some things but text editing isn't one of them
>For those that use VIM as their daily drivers: how long did it take for you to prefer VIM to traditional editors? five minutes
your post is a meme
Oliver Lewis
This is the meme factory OP, everything here is a meme.
Blake Gonzalez
I encounter much less friction using vim keyboard navigation than a mouse. A mouse doesn't change your flow of thinking as much as the keyboard o ly because you're more used to using a mouse than a keyboard for it.
Kevin Sanchez
>using hjkl for general movement wew lad
John Gray
I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's nice to understand the flow of a program.
The minimap is useless for understanding the flow of a program. have you ever programmed?
Nicholas Reyes
...
Kayden Edwards
I like seeing where functions and variables are used. It works fine as long as you're not autistic enough to make 8k line files because you can't into think before do.