/hpg/ - Headphone General

/hpg/ - HeadPhone General

>Headphone purchase advice
pastebin.com/fYZLW7Ub

Noise isolation ≠ Noise cancellation

If you dislike a suggestion, try giving a better suggestion to whomever asked instead of going "hurr, x sucks"

>Sup Forums wiki headphone FAQ:
wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php?title=Headphones

Last Thread:

Other urls found in this thread:

innerfidelity.com/headphone-measurements
hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/restmp.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor_ladder
stereophile.com/content/weiss-dac202-firewire-da-converter-measurements
stereophile.com/content/benchmark-dac2-hgc-da-processorheadphone-amplifier-measurements
reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/48dhsq/well_after_two_years_of_interest_in_this_hobby/d0lg9fo
reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/41s5zp/z_review_schiit_bifrost_multibit_dac/cz8fmk1
reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/4dwz1p/schiit_stack_upgrade_bifrost_multibit/d1vxl71
innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHMSR7.pdf
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

HD800S gets you dual 3DPD

HE1000 on the other hand gives you depression

What do I get if I buy the Utopia?

Hello, please recommend me something.

>Budget
400$
>Location
Europe
>Source
desktop
>Preferred type of headphone
full sized
>Open or closed
closed
>Comfort level
Very comfy, I'm going to wear them at least 5 hours a day
>Past headphones
Got gifted beats a long time ago and never bothered to get something decent.
Also they aren't comfortable.

Manic depression

Hilariously overpriced dynamic drivers.

Chronic beryllium disease

I know they are in different price brackets but dunno if I should buy a SHP 9500 or go all way for some X2
Gonna be powered by a Fiio E10K

What are the differences between the Fostex t50rp mk2 and mk3?

I can find new mk2s on ebay for $90, refurbished mk3s for $115, and new mk3s for $160.

My old pair broke and I'm looking for something new

>Budget
$200
>Location
Asia
>Source
A PC and an iPhone
>Preferred type of headphone
Full sized
>Open or closed
Closed
>Comfort level
Decent comfiness, as long as it feels good and not like a brick's been taped to my ears I'll be happy

X2 is miles better than the 9500, not that they sound that similar. the 9500 has honestly become a reddit-tier meme now. unless you can get them for like $40 don't bother.

thx00 is $500 I think so... PM3.

innerfidelity.com/headphone-measurements

I wouldn't buy either unless you're going to get into a mod project. mk2 has more tried and tested mods. mk3 is new territory, though the mods will be similar, the outcomes will be different because they have different stock response.

xpt-100, or save up for an hp50

What happenes to wireless is frowned upon?

I've had these AKG Q701s for several years now, but the headband is broken and the left speaker keeps buzzing. I've taken it apart, tried fixing the wiring, tried making sure it wasn't interference from my amp or sound card, etc.

I really liked these, but the headband is absurdly uncomfortable. I have them wrapped in soft deer hide because they're so uncomfortable. What would you guys recommend?

I haven't been back to Sup Forums in years admittedly.

kys

Fill out the pastebin form, nigga

>Budget
$250
>Location
USA
>Source
AUX/Phone connector
>Preferred type of headphone
Full (over-ear)
>Open or closed
Open
>Comfort level
Prefer more comfy for longer sessions.
>Preferred tonal balance
Warm or Neutral
>Past headphones
AKG Q701

Looks good.
Does OPPO PM3 have a mic though?

no but I think you can get a cable with one

might want to try hd600 since you have q701. I have both and like them.

I see, I don't know how practical is a cable for talking during gaming but I will see.
I'm going to the headphones store tomorrow so if you have more rec my ears are all open.
thanks already for the pm3

Since you like both, how would you compare the K7__ to the HD600? I'm currently trying to decide between them, it's hard with the mountains of bullshit in reviews.

HE400S, used should be under $250
HD600, may find it used or on sale for under $300
MDR-MA900, only available used

Well the Mk3's seem to have universally better reviews in their stock form. The Mk2's have a massive wealth of existing mod information and are said to have huge potential.

Personally, I have an unmodded pair of T50RP MK3 and I think they sound great as is. I'm sure at some point in the future I'll try some mods, but I think the stock quality of these phones is often overlooked because of the huge modding potential they have.

I bought both these and a pair of AKG K702 and while there were some things I liked about the AKG's ultimately I preferred the Fostex and returned the K702's.

If you're going to buy to do a specific mod, sure get Mk2's. If you want a good sounding stock can and huge future mod potential, get the Mk3.

Nice amp & DAC. A multibit Bifrost is next on my list.

Is multibit worth it? Tempted to try the Modi Multibit to see if it's just a meme.

>Is multibit worth it?
No.

Reminder to have good source audio components.

Ok, is it literally just snake oil BS or just a very small improvement?

It's literally just another method of achieving the same thing, except the outdated, obsolete method they use requires the DAC to be on at ALL times.

If it's in a desktop system then I don't care if it's on all the time, does it sound better even a little?

No.

Honestly, it's a pretty contentious issue. A lot of people believe like this guy that it's absolutely indistinguishable.

However, some of tech talk from guys like Mike Moffet, who have been top industry digital engineers for decades, can be pretty convincing that there is a reason for it. I mean, they're working on it because they really think it's the way to go.

Granted, these people also stand to benefit from sales. There's bias built in and I think it's easy for people to dismiss it because of that. However, the larger margins are in affordable equipment so why even bother with expensive architectures if you make more money by selling volume?


I've only tried regular old onboard DAC's and one nicer standalone delta sigma. But, I'll "waste" the money on one to try it for myself. I could have returned the Lyr 2 at any time for 15 days if it didn't win me over, but I liked it enough to keep it. We'll see what happens with the Bifrost.

Yeah I was afraid of that.. I'll see if I can audition a multibit DAC sometime, I doubt I'll throw money at one just to test it.

>However, the larger margins are in affordable equipment so why even bother with expensive architectures if you make more money by selling volume?
You need statement products to build reputation as a company and manufacturer. There's a reason why places like head-fi have this stigma that FiiO just make entry level products.

check back in this thread ill post when I get back to my main PC.

It has nothing to do with it being on all the time you dunce. It's just a different circuit architecture for achieving the same thing. It requires more expensive and complex circuits.

Some people swear it's different. Some swear it isn't. Most people who claim either way have never ABX blind tested in otherwise identical setups so their opinions are meaningless, and even those who have fall on both sides.

So who knows, basically. People with jobs can try it out, people without jobs get to read about it, and everyone can pick a tribe.

I'm going to try it.

>It has nothing to do with it being on all the time you dunce.
Except the components don't work best until they're at ideal temps for operation.

The statement products thing makes sense to a point, but company's like Schiit for instance built their reputation with their early, less expensive products like Asgard. They didn't even release their "statement" products until like 5 years in after they were already largely successful.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

The point still stands though, especially in an industry where performance is almost entirely subjective to the people who purchase the products.

Just look at how the new Jontunheim from Schiit is being written off as a 'mid-fi' amplifier because of its price point, when it reality Jason's intention was for it to be a better SS amplifier than the Mjolnir and even Ragnarok.

I'm pretty sure multibit and delta-sigma DAC's respond identically to "warming up". As in it doesn't matter any more than any of your other solid state electronics warming up.

It's definitely interesting how the Jotunheim is going kind of ignored when the designer came out and directly stated it measured and performed better than ANY of their existing lineup, flagships included.

I was half tempted to return my Lyr for one. It's probably the best value item in their lineup now besides maybe the regular Magni/Modi.

>I'm pretty sure multibit and delta-sigma DAC's respond identically to "warming up"
I'll just copypaste since I'm too lazy to write it up myself.

"A real resistor doesn't have a constant value but it is actually dependent on temperature:

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/restmp.html

For many devices this difference in resistance due to operating temperature can be tolerated, even most DACs. Certain multibit DACs however use many resistors in parallel to process a digital signal. Here is an link:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor_ladder

You don't really need to know the details but what you do need to know is that it requires many many resistors at extremely tight tolerances, around 0.01%. With a slight deviation in temperature it is easy to go outside this tolerance and you get behavior that wasn't intended. The manufacturer designed the circuit when the resistors are running warm. For a DAC the current is actually pretty low through these resistors so they won't generate much heat. Which means it might take awhile for the circuit to get up to operating temperature."

I'm considering getting a Jotunheim but I just got an Asgard 2 a few months back. I could just move it to the bedroom though. I also heard the Audio GD NFB-11 is comparable, has anyone tried one? I don't know anyone locally that has an Audio GD amp.

AGD stuff is not comparable, it's honestly laughed away by most non head-fiers. Kevin Gilmore even used AGD as a comparison to another amp as an extremely low benchmark that even the other amp couldn't match.

The things people are saying about the Jotunheim is that it's basically going to topple the current amp price / performance ladder because nothing else at $400 can touch it.

Could easily be just hype and hyperbole, but people usually reserve that for much more expensive products.

The idea that I could have had a DAC right onboard for the same price as Lyr 2 + LISST is nagging at me, but no SPDIF input so I'd ultimately still rather have the Bifrost.

>but no SPDIF input so I'd ultimately still rather have the Bifrost.
Since it's a hotswappable module it could just be a matter of time before that happens.

>Jotunheim
Basically a less expensive HA-1 with less inputs?
Highly considering one now to build my system around.

So it's much better is what you're saying? I found a post on headfi saying that Kevin Gilmore praised one of the AGD amps so that seems like a good sign. I wish I could actually try one in the states though

Fewer inputs (most of them were unnecessary to begin with), no display, no remote.

And less than half the price, with an interesting new amp topology that (on paper) beats anything else even close in price.

Seems like an ideal centerpiece for any desktop setup.

I want to get a pair of headphones this weekend. Please help recommend something! I want the best I can possibly afford.

>Budget
$150
>Location
USA
>Source
phone, computer, and receiver (vinyl)
>Preferred type of headphone
over the ear
>Open or closed
Either, but open preferrred
>Comfort level
as comfortable as possible without losing quality
>Preferred tonal balance
neutral
>Past headphones
nothing to note

Some open back Audio Technicas. Supposed to be very efficient and neutral I understand.

Is there a specific model that you can recommend? I'd also prefer a pair with a detachable cable, but the pair I was looking at in my price range didn't have that.

I can't personally recommend any of them because I haven't listened to them, but the ATH-AD900X seem to fit your criteria neatly.

I've got Fostex T50RP (mk3) which I'm really enjoying, but they aren't maybe the most neutral and they definitely would be more comfortable with new pads.

>~$100
>IEM
>Focue on comfort and isolation
Will the se215s provide a decent ammount of isolation against my neighbors talking and walking around?
Currently using HD598s and am getting disturbed by outside noise when working. Im not replacing my 598s, I know the 215s arent as well balanced to my tastes. I just need something as comfortable as my 598s but with isolation.

Anyone here tried this Tennmak Pro?

Alright, thanks. Those will probably be what I buy since I was looking at them already.

>Budget
$150 USD

>Location
USA

>Source
Fiio E10k (feeling like it was a waste of money)
T430 thinkpad

>Preferred type of headphone
Full sized, over ear

>Open or closed
Absolutely closed

>Comfort level
Very

>Preferred tonal balance
V or flat, didn't enjoy bright cans when I had them. Listen to pretty much everything but I'm getting into stuff like Sleep and Earth more recently.

>Past headphones
Sony mdr-V6, Dt-990 currently used

Selling off my dt-990 (black edition with shitty looking pads) to get something closed for college. Currently leaning for the Dt770 since I like the velour pads but I'd like to hear what your favorite closed cans are in that range.

The dt770 also comes in lower ohm versions so I'm considering selling the fiio off. But for now I'm only going to get rid of the dt990.

I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but practically all modern DACs are multi-bit. One-bit converters haven't been a thing since the turn of the millennium.
The R-2R (segmented) version of the Modi has subpar performance, if we take some of Atomicbob's measurements as representative of the product.
Resistor ladders and strings are obsolete for audio use. They got thrown out by delta-sigma architectures for being cheaper and higher performance at audio. Building a DAC in the same vein as Schiit is going through a lot of effort to build a converter for more money that performs like a hack job but is still arguably good enough for its application (Redbook audio). Reminds me of those people who put together inefficient ways to print "Hello world", except Schiit actually says their solution is better.

We want the resistor values maintain monotonicity and relative values. The resistors inside are subject to uneven heating from the current being passed through components with different resistance, which breaks linearity. This gets more problematic as you demand higher bit depth.
This is part of the reason why we can't just have converters with arbitrarily high performance.

They don't use a straight R-2R, the MSBs are dealt with by resistor string. Takes some of the matching burden off the ladder.

Do Audio Technica ATH-M50x headphones actually sound good or are they a meme? Are there any noteable downfalls to them? I'm looking for something with good clarity at all ranges.

>Do Audio Technica ATH-M50x headphones actually sound good
Nobody here calls them good so what gave you that idea?

Very bassy and dark which obscure "clarity", shallow pads and high clamp lead to easy discomfort.

A cable too thin to neck yourself.

Performs worse than the Delta-Sigma standard version, has absolutely no benefit due to this reason and it's more expensive. In terms of performance both are well beyond what we can hear but if you feel like putting some money on just a mere different topology is somehow worth it, it's up to you.

Moffat got blown the fuck out with his claims about multibit and its benefits in things such as spatial hearing and soundstage. He should stick to engineering and leave the discussion about human hearing to those who understand it. I guess that crap made for a great sales pitch given how most people don't understand a fraction of what he does and he's got a title and a name in the industry. Yggdrasil is particularly impressive performance wise but it simply doesn't do what Moffat claims it to.

>Do Audio Technica ATH-M50x headphones actually sound good
To some they do.
>Or are they a meme?
The what?

They have a significant bass boost and a spiky treble. For better clarity, without defining the term further, you should look for a more even and less colored response.

But you're admitting Yggdrasil has best of class performance.

What aspect of it's design gives it this? Would it be better off somehow as a delta-sigma design?

>Moffat got blown the fuck out with his claims about multibit and its benefits in things such as spatial hearing and soundstage
Source?

Can someone redpill me on wireless headphones? I kind of want a set for use with my Vive but I don't know anything about them

>redpill

They're made by jews and pushed by globalists

I KNEW IT!

>Budget
$200-$400 but prefer lower end.

>Location
USA

>Source
o2/odac

>Preferred type of headphone
full sized

>Open or closed
closed; needs excellent isolation.

>Comfort level
don't care.

>Preferred tonal balance
neural; k702 is perfect for me

>Past headphones
k702, hf5, k550, 7506

>headphones I'm considering or have considered
oppo pm-3 but it seems a rip-off since k553 apparently sounds better.
meanwhile k553 has poor seal.
maybe msr7 but I hear mixed things.

>But you're admitting Yggdrasil has best of class performance.
I won't go that far. It's certainly up there. Some very well performing DACs:

stereophile.com/content/weiss-dac202-firewire-da-converter-measurements
stereophile.com/content/benchmark-dac2-hgc-da-processorheadphone-amplifier-measurements

>What aspect of it's design gives it this?
I couldn't say, I'm no engineer myself. Vaguely the answer is just the sum of its parts and excellent job at circuit design. No single good component in a large circuit can make it perform well. Neither R2R or delta-sigma inherently achieve some level of performance.
>Would it be better off somehow as a delta-sigma design?
Since the topology differs here I don't think that's a good question. Had they been designing a delta-sigma DAC instead, they probably could've gotten very close to Yggrasil's performance for less amount of R&D. Whether they'd have topped it in some areas is anyone's guess at this point. Focusing on topology and design instead of the performance is rather pointless. I think they just wanted to make something different and do it well at which they succeeded.

The problem I have are the claims about audible benefits which are simply unfounded as well as the horde of "enthusiasts" repeating those claims as truths.

Someone linked these here a time ago when Yggdrasil was released. I found some posts related to the matter quick:
reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/48dhsq/well_after_two_years_of_interest_in_this_hobby/d0lg9fo
reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/41s5zp/z_review_schiit_bifrost_multibit_dac/cz8fmk1
reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/4dwz1p/schiit_stack_upgrade_bifrost_multibit/d1vxl71

Aside from his cocky know-it-all way of posting, the post history is rather amazing. Full of cited papers backing up his claims and genuinely seems to have a solid understanding of audio in multiple fields. Some arguments are rather entertaining.

I'm thinking about picking up a pair of Sony MDR-V6s. Do you guys have any opinions or thoughts about them?

Good headphones for a good price.

hd600 my nigga

MDR-7056 for neutral, DT770 for V-shape. Really up to you. I think the DT770 is more comfortable.

HD 558. It's neutral and comfortable. Sensitive enough to be driven on weaker mobile devices, too.

They are good and fairly neutral. Nice option in their price point.

Not many neutral options there. Something wrong with the 7506?

>those arguments

It's much easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled.

Newbie here with a quick question for you, guys: is Meizu HD50 for $50 worth buying for a use in office? I kinda like their form factor and size, but I'd like to hear some opinions from owners, if it's possible.
Thanks in advance!

>Not many neutral options there. Something wrong with the 7506?

I just thought they sounded shitty, lacking detail, and even tinny once I got good AKGs.

also when I posted I was considering msr7, but it has that absurd midrange/tremble bump
innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHMSR7.pdf
argh

Got recommended FiiO E10k for my akg702, they seem fine but I can afford to pay up to 130 euros, any other amp worth more than the 80 bucks FiiO E10k that would be an improvement?

EQ

How do the legit DACs and Amps made by real audio manufacturers like TEAC, Pioneer compare?

I dont see whats the difference between these head phone brand gear and regular receivers?

Hey user I'm at the store and didn't find PM3
I got recommended BOSE QC35 black for those criterias How is he?

Of course the store would recommend the QC35, no one who knows anything would recommend those unless you absolutely must have ANC.

They are pretty great headphones, faint noise from the ANC circuitry aside.

Regular receivers have taken a hit in build quality for gimic stuff like bluetooth the last few years.

Basically it goes like this.

1970's name brand stereo flagships = totl solid state and tube
80-90's, still pretty good solid state
Early 2000's name brand theater flagships = excellent solid state and old school ladder DAC

Big receiver amps are fine for stuff like planars that don't require a linear resistance to power curve. All this tiny amounts of clean flat power stuff is necessary for modern dynamics only.

But to answer your question directly, the headphone brands have lower output resistance on the jacks, and a power curve more geared toward modern dynamic headphones. That's really about it.

Hello guys I'm looking for bluetooth headphones
>inb4 bluetooth is shit

>Budget
under 150€ something around 100€ would be great, I'm totallly fine with buying second hand or sniping of ebay to save some bucks
>Location
Germany
>Source
Mobile Phone, Notebook
>Preferred type of headphone
bluetooth headphones no in-ear shit or something on or over-ear are both good
>Open or closed
doesn't matter
>Comfort level
high, I'll wear them while studying and when chillin but not while doing sports or anything
>Preferred tonal balance
i listen to classics and indie a lot not a huge fan of bass
>Past headphones
some philips bluetooth stuff

I already looked around a bit and found the
Sony MDR-ZX770BN that I can get for 99€ of amazon
and
Philips Fidelio M1BT which one can get around 100€ as well.

Has anyone here ever tried one or both of these? how do they compare?
Are there any other great options I should consider?

>inb4 budget way too low

>Budget
50 Eur
>Location
Europe
>Source
Desktop
>Preferred type of headphone
Full sized
>Open or closed
Closed
>Comfort level
Very comfortable
>Preferred tonal balance
Not much choice in this price bracket, I imagine.
>Past headphones
Currently have the Tascam TH-02, looking for something more comfortable.

Yeah I guess they would since it's new but how good are they? Since you know something can you tell me why nobody would recommend this?

I need a DAC/AMP combo for my DT770 Pro 80ohms, I've got $250 I can spend on one so should I opt for FiiO E10K or something else?

How good are the AKG K 240's?

>$1000

is this DAC amp a meme?

No, it's a DAC/amp.

it costs more than my whole computer and my headphones

are the hd650s good or did i buy snake oil

Okay. Thanks for sharing bruh.

May as well consider the schiit stack & o2/odac at that budget.

They're not for sound quality.

The QC35 drivers are really poor without ANC on because when noise cancelling is active so is the DSP that somewhat balances the sound. Without it they sound bad, certainly not worth $300. However, if you need ANC then they're probably the best you'll find or among them.

np.

>is it a meme
>is it snake oil
>is it placebo
>is it worth it
>how'd i do Sup Forums
>redpill me

it's time to stop

i ask because i want a genuine answer

can't really tell the difference between youtube quality and wav/flac and shit

So noise cancelling reduce the quality of the sound in general or just on those headphones?