Clean Energy and Trump

How do you think Trump's presidency will affect the clean energy market?

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probably, he wants to use coal still in a "clean" manner

It won't because Trump will have no other choice but to support clean energy. If he doesn't it means those companies will flee to EUrope, China and Japan which means loss of tax revenue and jobs. Trump is a protectionist but he can't dictate what the markets do.

Also those jobs in the rust belt he promised to bring back? Those jobs aren't coming back, ever, no matter what he does. What needs to be done for those people is reeducation and reinsertion into other job markets.

Fracking is harmful to health and environment, oil sands are one of the most devastating an polluting activities on the planet. If Trump wants his territory to look like a Mad Max movie, that's his choice but people will impeach him before it happens and if they're bothered enough.

That's just a few random thoughts.

Reminder that renewable energy would be perfectly viable if we simply consumed less energy in the first place.

But nope, gotta have my double fridge-freezer and 4K streaming with 4G.

You're changing the customer requirements, engineers aren't allowed to do that

I find it alarming that the green or clean energy people have basically become a religion of fanatics. Same thing happens around climate global warming all that malarkey.

Easy on that oil lobby kool aid Timmy.
You'll be wetting the bed again.

>Whinge about destroying the earth
>Cripple/ban nuclear
>Lobby for asinine regulations
>Give money to scams like SOLAR FUHREEKIN ROADWAYS
>Jizz over Teslas and hang on every word of Elon Musk
>Whine about foreign oil
>Block pipelines
>Latest fad is CELL TOWERS CAUSE CANCER OH NOOOOOOOOO
What a rational group of people.

Solar panel purchasing probably wont be subsidized by the US government any more.

N U C L E A R
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>Shut down the EPA and undo all environmental laws
>California turns into New Delhi

T H O R I U M
H
O
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I
U
M

where it's at

>tfw California has designated shitting streets

> considers energy independence a matter of national security
> wants to let the market be shortsighted enough to depend on an inherently finite resource for energy

You don't even have to buy into the hippie dippy bullshit to see why renewables are a superior technology.

Except this is a real fucking problem. This isn't about morality or spiritual warfare, this is about surviving another generation.

>How do you think Trump's presidency will affect the clean energy market?
In the US if it becomes unaffordable to do business here the companies will probably relocate to a country that is more favorable to them and then export their products to the US if it's cheap enough. If Trump puts tariffs on their products and causes it to be unaffordable they'll just leave the US

Please let Calexit happen.

California can't leave. It hates Florida too much to let it be the new head douche state.

>Whinge about destroying the earth
yep. i whinge.
>Cripple/ban nuclear
nuclear is good
>Lobby for asinine regulations
i like to feel safe
>Give money to scams like SOLAR FUHREEKIN ROADWAYS
doesn't seem technologically feasible. i haven't heard of this before.
>Jizz over Teslas and hang on every word of Elon Musk
Gotta hand it to him.. he has vision-- the other car manufacturers are catching up and the tesla line will remain a luxury line.
>Whine about foreign oil
oil is oil i don't care where it comes from. it all has the same problems
>Block pipelines
yeah because transporting it by train is sooo much better. I don't know why we're fighting this--other than to make a stand for something in climate change... it's just the wrong stand
>Latest fad is CELL TOWERS CAUSE CANCER OH NOOOOOOOOO
never heard of this

Then can't we give California back to Mexico so they'll leave the rest of the US alone?

>Expecting the media to report accurately on boring scientific reports without turning it into doom-mongering political clickbait

It already is Mexico.

Trump has basically stated that he doesn't believe in climate change, he has also indicated that he will bring the coal industry back somehow. He's probably the worst candidate imaginable for renewables or clean energy production. It's good for other countries though, he'll cause our smaller businesses to leave or close up shop and other countries will pick them up.

At least Trump supporters got to stick it to "the man" though.

The quicker people are reliantly on oil, the quicker the arabs go bankrupt. There is literally no reason why you shouldn't be supporting renewable or nuclear energy.

STANDING

...

Thank fuck. We could coast on coal for the next 200 years.

We could also coast on natural gas which is (currently)cheaper, cleaner, and overall safer to acquire and utilize. Natural gas is the reason coal mining died off, we have more natural gas than any other country on earth. We do not need coal it is redundant and also a heavy burden on the environment in a number of ways

The reason why he's against climate change has nothing to do with the efficiency of power sources. It has to do with regulation. He believes regulations in the US are overly restrictive and that they're choking businesses that would otherwise be able to thrive. Discrediting climate change is merely one aspect of his hatred of regulation in the US.

Do you enjoy being bathed in radioactive soot user?

Coal is regulated for a reason. It produces a ton of hazardous waste and the effects of coal mining can ruin ecosystems for many decades.

I enjoy having a natural fuel resource able to power the entire country without having to pay other countries so a group of cunts can pretend they are environmentally friendly.

BUT BUT MUH JOBBBBBSSSS

Can i set up my coal plant in your backyard? Don't want to let those cunts win right?

Coal mining would be automated anyway. It isn't 1916.

It's a good thing there are other more efficient cleaner alternatives to that dying resource and industry.

>tfw live in 120 year old house with no thermal insulation, but that has two boilers and furnaces
feels toasty.

You could use the backyard argument with nuclear reactors. There is no reason you would have to put this in someones back yard.

the stock markets will rally as rich republicans cash in wherever they can. the tax cuts and deregulation will ruin the world. trump won't do anything about clean energy.

Yes, but it's good to know it's still there if and when we need it.

God forbid.

It could also serve as a backup method for energy production if we ever actually need it for some reason. They just don't need to be running right now.

>the stock markets will rally
Not around renewable energy though. All of the renewable energy companies took a massive dive since election night. Trump is going to make them unprofitable in the short term, dead in the long term. Remember, the vast majority of renewable energy companies source most of their components and materials from outside the US, mostly from CHYNA. Even if Trump decides to push for domestic renewable energy, those companies will go bust from having to produce or import their products from overseas thanks to China's monopoly on the solar cell and electrical manufacturing department, as well as rare earth metals used from many permanent magnets.

Today at school I was gang-banged, and when I tried to tell authorities, they all laughed at me, said that Trump is president so they can do what they want, and then one cop even forced his fingers into me. I cried and tried to go home, but had to hide in the bushes as I witnessed my LGBTQIADG+ friends chained up being herded into vans to go to concentration camps. My neighbour set a womyn of color's house on fire while the cops applauded.

100% atomic is possible now
esp thorium lifter
remember energy should be looked at in terms of human flourishing
not some delusino of impact
humans modify dangerous environemnt to be comfy
and flourish when energy is cheap and plentiful
youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY

Lads, I just want houses to run on solar or win, or hell even Nuclear already. I'm tired of our planet getting polluted D:

>not lighting your home with solar tubes during the day and lit with LEDs from a solar-recharged battery bank at night
>not using geothermal temperature control to cool/heat your home
>not using sunlight to warm up the tap water during the day and thermally isolating the pipes to prevent excessive heat loss

I would if I could user, I would if I could. Hopefully, in the not too distant future, all you just said will be a reality.

This, Nuke reactors and solar are the way to go. The tech has improved in leaps and bounds and is a lot safer, especially if they go with the thorium ones. Choking out oil robs the Saudis of their money and thus influence.

People are upset because interest groups have made climate science into a political issue.

Dude, just buy a bunch of glass hemispheres/domes, drill holes in your roof/ceiling, and put reflective aluminum ducting for the solar tubes. They cost about a thirty dollars in raw material per solar tube. Install some white LEDs and a light sensor on the inside of your piping and hook them up to a Raspberry Pi for automatic light control/adjustment. That's another forty per solar tube and $40 for a single Rasp Pi per four solar tubes (but completely optional). Installing solar panels is a different matter, so I'll assume you're hooking them up to the existing electrical system in your home.
Geothermal is more expensive because you need copper pipes, a digger for your backyard, and some wall installations to replace your HVAC, but it costs $0 to maintain over ten years until it's time to replace the pipes underground.
And solar-heated water has been a thing for decades, some people just use see-through plastic pipes surrounded by a catering tray for this. It's the insulating that costs money.
The amount you save over time thanks to these changes is enough to buy you a GTX 1070 every year, especially if you live in a hot area where HVAC is a necessity.

Sounds like a lot of work and technical know how. Maybe when I have more time on my hands I'll look into it, sounds interesting.

ON THE EDGE

and abandoned a 300 million + market? lets put it this way, china steals whatever you make there and put there, yet everyone still tries to enter that market for potential profit.

chinese companies are moving to rust belt to take advantage of cheaper transportation cost. Check out Fuyao glass America.

This

FUCK I mean the second you point out how harmful mining for lithium is they go ape-shit on you

It's misleading to say America doesn't manufacture things anymore. We actually have an assload of domestic manufacturing, probably more stuff is made here than at any point but the thing is manufacturing is typically automated now so there's fewer jobs and the few jobs that are available require a technical background. Regardless of what Trump does low skill manufacturing jobs will not be coming back without cutting regulations on labor and wages.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

>human flourishing
>creating potentially hazardous conditions for developed and developing nations with air pollution from combustion engines, *potential* nuclear disasters, and lithium and coal mining operations destroying potentially viable livable land.

>At least Trump supporters got to stick it to "the man" though.
Hold on a minute. He has brought good points though, many of middle America, especially in rust belt states have lost everything and they are struggling. Not all Trump supporters, except for Sup Forums, didn't just vote for him to "stick it to the man", they voted for him because well the current regime just wasn't getting it done for them and it seemed like they were outright ignoring them.

Now, why in 2016 you'd try in bring the coal industry, is beyond me.

Bcuz dey took er Jerbs

That's a serious complaint that middle America has and you really shouldn't make fun of that.

But there are certain jobs that have just been deprecated and coal jobs are on them.

Way to go straight to histrionics. I mean, jesus, "surviving another generation"? We aren't in danger of dying out from the projected global warming or climate change. All you're going to see is damage to coastal communities, mass migration in poor countries and shifting arable land.

It will present new problems and new opportunities. The only people who should be flipping the fuck out are the people who own skyscrapers in Manhattan or beach front property anywhere.

Hillary was not a good candidate but part of her platform was modeled after Bernie Sanders' platform. She planned to expand infrastructure and make college available to everyone including people in poorer areas to help them get jobs or create jobs. Trump's "plan" is basically to make everyone about as cheap as H1Bs

nothing wrong with coal, hippie

if we don't burn it, china will

And China is a god damned hell hole that is covered in smog and the people are 5"2 because of it.

>become
they always were, since it was founded on faulty science

Pretty much this.
Trump is too short-sighted to make the logical leap that everyone else can be protectionist too.
And if he tries it, we'll all lose out.
Economics isn't a 0-sum game so protectionism outside of essential security interests will lower everyone's quality of life in the long-term.
Hopefully his advisers will talk sense to him.

>the people are 5"2 because of it.

She was never gonna make college free and making college free make college worse and how are you gonna pay for that.

Also, you can't walk up to the 41 year old plant worker, tell him that his job is being taken from him but he shouldn't worry because he can take 4 years out of his life to learn a new profession.

Are you familiar with the term "outlier"?

One of the people who does get higher education becomes an executive at some company and they hire the factory worker(s) who were displaced. It wont happen immediately unfortunately but investments in education have a tendency to pay off rather well.

Chinese people who were born and raised in cities are actually around the average height of europeans and americans. The short chinese thing is because rural peasants and older folk lived through multiple famines as children and young adults.

Pollution doesn't make you short, it just gives you cancer. Malnutrition in adolescence makes you short. Funny enough shorter people have a lowered risk of cancer, as do people who have survived famines.

>Malnutrition in adolescence makes you short

So this is why I'm a manlet then ;_;

thorium is 150% safe and can be used to burn off older radioactive waste

While they're mining it, sure, but if and when they stop they are mandated to immediately reclaim the area. When I say reclaim, I mean they put literally everything back to the way it was before they started mining it. It's really quite impressive.

They're bouncing back and forth right now, there are a lot of companies that are opting for coal at the moment and coal traffic has gone back to usual levels as a product. Natural gas remains stable.

Would companies still do that without regulations in place?

It will force them to actually fucking compete. So they will start doing shit faster.

Is that a relevant question? America has the cleanest coal in the world, not only in the coals physical contents, but also in the process of extraction and transportation. Because all the infrastructure is set, and because it's so efficient it's also the lowest cost per ton. That's why for a short while we were shipping thermo to China until West Coast liberals decided to put an end to it. Ironically China is now burning their grossly inferior coal and massively polluting the whole world in doing so.

Now back to the question: No, they wouldn't but there are regulations in place now, which are to be adhered to and will continue to be adhered to. Furthermore because the US is such a powerhouse you can bypass the necessity of regulation in China by promoting seaborne coal and ensuring that not only do their emissions dwindle but that they no longer have to mine their own coal. In doing so you manage to promote a dying industry until the people who have heavily invested into pensions get to enjoy their retirement instead of nixxing what may be close to a million interrelated jobs.

>Is that a relevant question?
With a president that is advocating that we return to using coal who is apparently considering appointing a climate change denier to the EPA? Absolutely, it most definitely is.

>America has the cleanest coal in the world
And it still puts out a fuckton of pollution

>there would be regulations in place
God I hope so. Sadly the republicans have everything so they can propose and pass legislation.

>by doing so you manage to promote a dying industry
An industry won't go away if you're propping it up.

>making college free make college worse and how are you gonna pay for that.
I live in a country where education is free.
Schools and universities receive money from the government so they can hire teachers and professors, maintain the buildings and buy equipment.
Now universities often want to buy more expensive toys (lab equipment is expensive in all fields)
And for that, we seek funding. Funding comes from corporations that want a writeoff and support an education that could benefit them when people get the education.
This means the market dictate what kind of education a lot of students can take.
Obviously there will still be people who will take useless degrees and we let them because it doesn't cost the university anything (women's studies doesn't require lab equipment).

Now we also go the extra mile and give money to students who live away from their parents, so someone like me was able to quit a well paying job and study for a couple of years without having any debt.
I personally would be fine with getting this as a loan, but who says no to free money?

In the meantime the species that live there get run off and the area doesn't fully rebound for years. Covering the landscape with grass and trees doesn't necessarily bring back reptiles, mammals, amphibians, bugs, birds, bacteria, etc that were once there. Only time can fix that.

Europe, china, etc already have those jobs. The only reason we have those jobs is the government subsidies (probably the only reason Europe has those jobs too.)

Actually there are a lot of reserve practices on site, as such animals actually thrive and retreat there for protection as it is illegal to kill animals on a minesite, which are actually huge plots of land most of which remains untouched until a pit closure. So animals are largely unaffected and if anything to some degree protected while still being able to graze.

As correct as you are, the american people won't do shit. They're still hung up over muslims and black people.

No it wouldn't.

While we could easily create enough solar and energy to meet demand on paper, in reality we don't have the energy storage technology to even out the swings. We will always need a stable, predictable, adjustable energy source. Like, say FUCKING NUCLEAR.

But the scientific reports are far scarier than what the media reports. If they reported the actual situation, nobody would believe them because it's too outlandish.

Even if he did, california wouldn't actually change. Their state level controls are stricter than the EPA's.

Good point. Only the republican states would be directly affected probably.

Unpoisoning the water supply would be pretty impressive, yes.

Where do you live?

In the US college tuition is incredibly costly unless you're obtaining an entry level degree from a community college. We're talking $40,000 for tuition alone which is astronomical considering you're not guaranteed anything, and if you're dropping that much cash you're probably full-time meaning part-time work so a lot of that debt can't be handled through the interim of daily life. Then you have the option of dormitories or an apartment, food plan etc.. You're essentially predestined to live paycheck to paycheck for four or more years while never being able to pay for your loans. Enter the real world and you have staggering debt, possibly a job, and what is likely an unacceptable living situation.
By the time you do get a real job you're still only making median wages which you could've done without ever obtaining a degree in the first place. Now you're trying to self-sustain and start a life, you rent a studio which takes up more than a quarter of your wages, you need a phone and an internet connection, you need car insurance, you need medical insurance, you need food and fuel, you need entertainment, you need to pay off a sliver of your debt only to realize you've paid $40,000 to live paycheck to paycheck for a piece of paper which doesn't necessarily grant you a career in your chosen field, which doesn't necessarily increase your salary, which doesn't really seem to be an economically sound decision.

They have sealed ponds which are frequently inspected by MSHA. As a matter of fact MSHA inspects virtually everything on a minesite, things as nominal as an uncovered fluorescent bulb can be written up and fined. Which means when they do the environmental testing (including water, air, runoff) they are incredibly anal, which is precisely why all of these ponds are maintained with a great attention to detail. They're also pumped frequently. Chemical waste is also disposed of in a very controlled manner. Where are you getting your facts? India?

This. Australia gets an inland sea out of it so I'm quite happy with it.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23387116

That's all well and good until you decide to stop doing that. This only took like five seconds on google. Not even google scholar.

We're going to see billions of people dead, millions of species extinct, an uninhabitable equator, the complete death of fishing as a food source, and the loss of nearly every major city on the planet.

Please, link me to a scholarly article of yours, published in a reputable, peer reviewed scientific journal, analyzing the methodology of modern climate science. We're all waiting to be enlightened.

OF THE COAL PLANTS

BC Canada here, don't count on inspections for shit. We had a mining town's water supply get permanently fucked with Arsenic. The mine had a tailings pond that was overfilled and, despite passing inspections, was still in poor repair. The pond's barrier gave in one day and the local ecosystem & fishing economy was instantly irreversibly damaged.

Chemical waste is dangerous, and companies have incentives to reduce the cost of operations. Conforming to regulations is a cost centre, so the sealed ponds never get the money they really should be getting. There is not a big incentive for a mining company to be super safe.

In addition coal is only contributing to our global climate disaster. It's bad thing after bad thing when you look at digging up carbon and burning it, no question.

We could power our whole country with solar and batteries. Why not do that? We can balance the grid with hydroelectric dams and nuclear power, or perhaps wind.

You really think we can predict what will happen when we shift the temperature up permanently by 3 or more degrees? The environment is a system that existed and optimized itself over billions of years. You cannot possibly think that you can predict the outcome of adding trillions of tons of carbon to the atmosphere. I am not saying that there will be a huge apocalyptic future, but given the sensitivity of the environment to temperature change, it is an outcome that we should prepare for.