/retro/

Show off your old tech!

Old thread

Remember when it was a marvel to even have a computer at all?

>show off your circlejerking!

>Old circlejerk ->

yep and what you won't remember on purpose is how an entry level workstation cost $5K. I wonder what group of people brought this cost down.

>what you won't remember on purpose is how an entry level workstation cost $5K

I can't remember that because it wasn't true. At least not in the last 26 years it wasn't. I can't speak for the 80s but in 1990 it was far less than $5k to have an "entry level" workstation computer. $1500 would a more reasonable amount, and far less was possible if you knew the right places to look, and had the right hook-ups in industry.

the fuck are you even on about nigger

>but in 1990 it was far less than $5k to have an "entry level" workstation computer. $1500 would a more reasonable amount, and far less was possible if you knew the right places to look, and had the right hook-ups in industry.
please, no $1,500 386SX DOS shitbox in 1990 was "workstation class", justin's actually right for once, in fact given your example he even underestimated since the entry-level peg was closer to the $10,000 range, maybe even beyond depending on what platform you went with

the PPro made some inroads in that regard, bringing the entry-level threshold down to $3-5k, but you sure as fuck weren't getting anything "workstation" worthy at that price point until maybe 1998 when OEMs were dumping surplus PPros or maybe the early 2000s when prices really started going down

1. Nobody gives a fuck about "justin"
2. A 386SX machine would have been plenty to get started with in 1990.

That "shitbox" could potentially have had
>VGA
>nice external keyboard
>nice mouse
>hard drive
>32 bit CPU
>Unix in the form of IBM AIX

In the 80s a lot of the home computers were still 8 bit toys like the Commodore 64, and the computers used in workstations were already looking like what we use today for the most part.

But by 1990 that changed, and home computers started to look like 80s workstations.

I said earlier, just having a computer at home in your house was still an accomplishment. You'd be really fortunate to have something like an IBM PS/2 55SX. It was $3,895 to buy one new. So yes, a far cry from $1500.
Maybe by 1990 you could get one for a little less than that on the used market. And of course there were all the other tricks and techniques of men who know how to find bargains you could employ.

But 286's existed in the same form factor, and 286's are fine computers too and you could get very far ahead with one.

>you sure as fuck weren't getting anything "workstation" worthy at that price point until maybe 1998 when OEMs were dumping surplus PPros or maybe the early 2000s when prices really started going down

Bullshit. I used to see all kinds of high-grade stuff getting tossed in dumpsters in the late 90s. Some of it was Sun hardware, so it had to be pretty good. My dumb ass didn't care at the time because grey beards told me they couldn't run games.

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>business tossing shit means it was free to begin with
this is how this selective information flow (circlejerking) starts.

for a more understandable example, actually post consumer catalogs of something available to you, showing a record of the price, instead of just jerking off to pictures you took of this now and making up your own records. How about best buy. Ad says it is 1996.

base consumer models are all $2,000, dollartimes says this is $3050. 3 years after eternal september so if you bought any of this, you're a kid who ruined the internet btw. But thankfully those kids were around to show interest since and began mass production so you can get workstations for less than $800 now. Very rarely see vintage ads with prices posted in these threads, wonder why.

>Gabriel Knight 2
>Ram Doubler

>>business tossing shit means it was free to begin with

It was free for me. I didn't take the Sun hardware but I took the x86 stuff. Not my fault if you were too much of a consumerist faggot at the time to look for the same opportunity.

>A 386SX machine would have been plenty to get started with in 1990.
not for a workstation use case it wasn't

>>VGA
you really have no idea what real workstations were capable of back then do you? even macs were doing 24-bit color at higher resolutions than that shit was struggling to push 16 colors at

>>nice external keyboard
>>nice mouse
these are basic features that pretty much everything outside of low-end home computers offered you by that time

>>hard drive
ditto, and usually on the ATA bus meaning your storage options were extremely limited

bit CPU
workstation-class hardware was nearing 64-bit by that time

>>Unix in the form of IBM AIX
you're really just talking out of your ass at this point, the PS/2 exclusive AIX port was grade-A garbage that was dropped pretty much immediately, hell even if you had one of the few PS/2s that could run it well enough and still had disk space to spare (hope you had a big one, you can't even install it on most of them that only shipped with 60-80MB disks) it had basically no software, and the PS/2 hardware was far too anemic anyway for most of the applications you used AIX for in the first place

>and the computers used in workstations were already looking like what we use today for the most part.
this sentence kind of makes me think you really just aren't on a proper footing with your definition of "workstation computer"

>But by 1990 that changed, and home computers started to look like 80s workstations.
you really need to go actually look up some '80s workstations if you honestly believe that, PCs couldn't really begin to match a lot of their capabilities until well into the '90s when the first PPro systems started making the platform an attractive option in the entry-level

>I said earlier, just having a computer at home in your house was still an accomplishment.
it certainly was a very rare sight

we're not talking about the used market

>show off your circlejerking!
Why do people get butthurt because some people enjoy watching hardware pr0n and sharing it?

I too, had Soviet clones.
Cool machines.

>written by a retarded piece of shit millennial
Millennial hipsters feeling nostalgic for things made or commonplace before they were born is cringey as fuck.

Actual cherry switches on the keyboard btw. Pretty weird for a "home computer", let alone a commie one... They switched to rubber dome for newer models.

I enjoy restoring old hardware, learning the ins and outs of how it works, and learning about its development. I'm a boring nerd though, so there's that.

God forbid i enjoy myself.

I'm in my mid 20's and grew up with things like AT clones and Amigas, Ataris.
Also I don't think most youngsters here aren't nostalgic but just interested in the hardware, go to /r/retrocomputing for nostalgic faggots, most people I know from here are in their late 30's.

Are you really enjoying? Or are you just trying to fit in, like what all you typical millennials do.

>this is how this selective information flow (circlejerking) starts.
I don't agree with him saying basic workstation stuff was only 1.5k but it was free for us, so where's the problem?
I had lot of shit that costed thousands of dollars when it was new in the early 90's by the beginning of the end of the decade.

>people like things that I don't like
stop with the millennia shit, we won't get into age, you won't get that satisfaction

I'm trying to fit in where? The giant dork club? Wow, such a privilege...

Thanks for making a new thread, glad to wake up and see one.

Yeah, I had a 8080 clone with mechanical keys too, some over them where pretty OP for their time as home computers. Like for example Speccy clones with mechanical keys and more memory.

>nostalgic
where are people talking about nostalgia?

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cherked derbs

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who gives a shit about nostalgia
it's a fun appeal to novelty and a cheap way to explore new uses for computers you wouldn't give a shit about otherwise

Wow i've never seen one of thse before. 80s "luggable" form factor on a 1999 computer, that's crazy bananas!

That's one pretty calculator

I suspect the dude has his knickers in a twist from pesky millenials culturally appropriating his decade.

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Implying he's not a millennial himself

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What kind of sorcery is this?

>2. A 386SX machine would have been plenty to get started with in 1990.

wtf am I reading?

A 386SX VGA system was not workstation class. It was plenty of computer for a normie to "get started." But it was not a publishing platform, a CAD machine, a system for science and Mathematica, etc.

Workstation class meant NeXT, Sun, top tier Macs, etc. At the time some would have argued that nothing in Apple's lineup other than the IIfx was truly workstation class, and purists would have said only if it was running A/UX.

Yeah, that's retarded, no x86 machine was considered workstation class back then, it was all about the 68k

You'll notice it was the autist who brought up the notion of a workstation being a necessity when all that was mentioned was a "a computer" here

Don't even know why they started talking about workstations.

>the PS/2 exclusive AIX port was grade-A garbage that was dropped pretty much immediately

You know, the thing is sometimes having grade-A garbage was enough when the alternative was nothing at all.

>Very rarely see vintage ads with prices posted in these threads, wonder why.
What's the point if I got one of those machines three years later after release from a relative for free when I was a kid?

>Or are you just trying to fit in

Yeah, I'm gonna be drowning in that retro PC gurrl pussy

The only other person who shares my interest is my brother...

>A 386SX VGA system was not workstation class. It was plenty of computer for a normie to "get started." But it was not a publishing platform, a CAD machine, a system for science and Mathematica, etc.

Sure it was. Other than maybe the CAD part. Maybe not the #1 choice for publishing but it would get the job done.

x86 was not workstation class at that time dummy
there weren't even workstations utilizing a 386

retro thread needs to be a general !

there is also a commodore 64 that is not in picture

It already is, but there's not having one 24/7 on a fast board like Sup Forums

no point*

the IIfx by itself is insane, it would probably be reasonable to call any big-box Mac II (and maybe the IIcx/IIci with them) "workstation-class" if you ask me, they ran the same chips as the Sun/HP/NeXT big iron, had more than decent 2D graphics capabilities to compete in the low-end on that front, and were all A/UX-capable

look at justin's reply and that guy's response to it, he was probably just thinking of "workstation" more in the idea of business fleet boxes, where yeah he was totally reasonable to assume the likes of the PS/2 55SX would be decent

>You know, the thing is sometimes having grade-A garbage was enough when the alternative was nothing at all.
except it was really a choice between paying thousands of dollars for nothing at all or just having nothing at all, which even then isn't true, because there /were/ alternatives for those who wanted to run Unix on a PC, the more established and infinitely more compatible Xenix and its derivatives come to mind

there's a reason AIX only had one version ever ported to the PC platform, it was useless and expensive to boot, it wasn't an alternative to anything unless you really wanted to pay out the ass for something OS/2 could probably accomplish better anyway, since the kind of stuff where Unix could really shine were well out of the grasp of a single-user desktop no matter what OS you ran on it

there you go

386 with 387fpu at its finest

That's a cool monitor

>retro thread needs to be a general !

Pls no we're already seeing the same group of hostile faggots show up that have infested the generals of /vr/. Don't give them a "hang out". Just these threads be a sometimes thing.

>the IIfx by itself is insane, it would probably be reasonable to call any big-box Mac II (and maybe the IIcx/IIci with them) "workstation-class" if you ask me
As consumer hardware, yeah.

There isn't enough content for a fast board like Sup Forums anyways for it to be a general.

Also about the hostile faggots, just ignore them, they are a funny community to kek at sometimes, bumping the threads.

Do speakers exist that would go well with a XT/AT?
Even having early 90's speakers looks wrong with those machines.

>even macs were doing 24-bit color at higher resolutions than that shit was struggling to push 16 colors at

Macintosh II was the first Mac to support color and cost over $5000. Not really fair to say "even macs". Macs of 1990 != Macs of today. They were pretty much workstations when they came out. Comparing it to the PS/2 is unfair.

man, I have not heard of xenix in a long fucking time

This thread just makes me miss ejecting/swapping floppies.

>16-bit data path
>workstation

Choose one.

>Maybe not the #1 choice for publishing but it would get the job done.

We're talking about 1990. 386sx. DOS+Windows 3.0. Sorry, nobody was doing graphic design on those things. Broderbund Print Shop doesn't count.

By contrast a Macintosh Plus...though not a workstation...could actually manage page layout for small publications. You wouldn't want to layout a book or a magazine with high rez photos or anything. But a B&W laser printed newsletter with EPS art and mixed fonts was well within its reach as long as you had a hard drive and preferably 2.5 or 4MB.

Also: looking at period ads I'm not seeing even shitty 386sx machines for $1,500.

A NeXTcube with a 25 MHz 68040, UNIX, Display PostScript, 16MB, a DSP, and a fully I/O processor serviced architecture...THAT was a mother fucking workstation even though its competitors were already moving to RISC.

Get a $2 drive off ebay and a floppy and just play with it

>A NeXTcube with a 25 MHz 68040, UNIX, Display PostScript, 16MB, a DSP, and a fully I/O processor serviced architecture
I'd fuck it

That monitor is the same as I had with my first PC around 2001, which was a Pentium S 120mhz machine. I got it out of the back of a garbage truck.

another angle

alt-ought I have no idea how to get any of these machines going nor do I know what software to go with them, but they all seem to work and post

I should probably just get my Amiga etc out of storage.

Do it and show us, I like Amiga p0rn

>We're talking about 1990. 386sx. DOS+Windows 3.0. Sorry, nobody was doing graphic design on those things. Broderbund Print Shop doesn't count.
It might get the job done for a weak home user, but that's it.

that is a early 90s CTX 14" monitor dated from around 94 - 95 I think

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expensive-ass IIs were hardly "consumer", that dream died with Steve's first ouster, they were built and equipped for businesses, while the compacts serviced what few consumer users they had

you're very right

here's a $1500 piece of shit out of the may 15 1990 issue of PC mag, they were around, but I wouldn't even run Windows on that thing

>we're not talking about the used market
Why not? It existed then as it exists now. There's no reason to assume everyone bought their computers brand new. In my own experiences the most hardcore computer geek types I knew always had some workstation setup they scrounged up from parts here and there or hand-me-downs from wealthier friends. And certain bits and pieces of tech were known to mysteriously vanish from labs and workplaces.

Another technique was going through business or university programs and getting discounts. You can't just go by the sticker prices you see in magazines back then. You could do better than that if you tried.

Yes, I was a poorfag teenager from the country so I had to take what I could get.

>tfw you'll never open the box of a brand new NeXTcube
>never place all the pieces like artwork on your desk
>never get goose bumps when it first starts up
>never print your shit at 400dpi, 100dpi higher than the other kids with their shitty LaserWriters

Why live?

>expensive-ass IIs were hardly "consumer"
You just said yourself "any big box Macintosh"

So even as far back 1990 PCs were just good for gaymes and shitposting/fapping on BBSes?

Except they weren't even good for games or watching porn.

Yeah, that's what I remember also.

Cleaning out this guy right now, powers on and reads 66 on the LED display.

I stand corrected. 386shit was available for $1,500.

Y-you don't think those Sun machines had any porn on them do you?

No, but there where machines way better suited for gayming and highres porn.

>Why not? It existed then as it exists now.
because it's irrelevant in the context of workstations, which were primarily marketed to customers who weren't really keen on surfing rummage sales and illegally fishing entry-level SPARC lunchboxes out of university dumpsters to build their IT infrastructure, aside from the accounting nightmare, the used market is sporadic and also doesn't really provide the support many of these businesses required

>Another technique was going through business or university programs and getting discounts. You can't just go by the sticker prices you see in magazines back then. You could do better than that if you tried.
if you think that meant you were going to get workstation-class gear at 386SX prices you've got another thing coming

which were all IIs (II, IIx, IIfx) or top-of-the-line Quadras (900, 950) with base prices exceeding $5,000

yeah it really was hot garbage

I assume the porn industry of the time did some of their work on Macs.

>yep and what you won't remember on purpose is how an entry level workstation cost $5K.
and much more.
I visited Motorola back in the '80s and goggled at the Apollo and Xerox workstations running on 10Base2 ethernet networks. Made our PS/2s look pretty feeble.

>because it's irrelevant in the context of workstations

But it's...not. It's pretty darn relevant. Read any historical account of the period and you'll always hear a story from the dudes back then about how they managed to finagle their way into having a much more powerful PC than they paycheck (or lack thereof) would indicate.

Your idea of history seems to be based on this abstract theoretical customer who just buys a pre-built system, but that's not how it worked. It was messy. Especially in regards to powerful home computers.

>which were all IIs (II, IIx, IIfx) or top-of-the-line Quadras (900, 950) with base prices exceeding $5,000
They where still consumer market, also the mid-class machines would count as big box too.

True that.
Not to mention the price degenerated very fast.

you're probably a millennial trying to sound wise beyond your years. look at you, mature and smart for your age.

those are some nice fucky anecdotes and all but they really don't offer strong support to your point, neither does your idea of a workstation system as a "powerful home computer"

the big businesses buying these high end systems were not fishing them out of dumpsters and surplus auctions, and the wild success of vendors like Sun and SGI were a testament to this far more than "I know a guy who knew a guy that got a really nice system at work once" (???)

...by what metric? the badge on the front? you keep saying this but you have nothing else behind it to make me see it your way

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>...by what metric? the badge on the front? you keep saying this but you have nothing else behind it to make me see it your way
Those machines where consumer grade, you walked into a shop and bought them, not like the "workstation grade" SPARCstation for example.
You where the one to say big box Macintoshes where workstation material and I agree, but they where still consumer grade.

Consumer grade as workstations to add to that, because you mentioned Steve Jobses dream, he didn't dream about a workstation in every home but just a computer.

Nice dude, better pics of the motherboard?

Not him but wasn't the discussion about general and second hand market too? After all it started by talking about anons, not businesses.
So the "businesses didn't fish bins" does not count, what counts is how we the people acquired these machines and I must agree with him, if you had any brain at all you could fish yourself some pretty nice systems because they degenerated so quick, a 10K workstation 3 years latter for a few hundred bucks was no biggie, specially if you got around the scene.

S P A M
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Post-cleaning. You don't want to know what this looked like before I took the canned air to it. The PSU was especially bad, clumps of matter I don't want to identify.