This Indian software developer

This Indian software developer
* works more hours than you
* develops software of sufficient quality to be profitable
* is cheaper than you
Why shouldn't he get your job?
I thought the alt-right were all about free markets.

Other urls found in this thread:

thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/iqs-of-indians/
newamericamedia.org/2012/07/indian-americans-most-educated-richest-says-pew-report.php
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

...

>Everyone I don't like is alt-right

Wow, that's totally a valid argument to an event that never happened

>sufficient quality

Fascists are identical to Communists in destroying technologies and economies. Trump will actually hurt even the nazis. By giving the best jobs to the laziest of Americans that couldn't get a job on their own you hurt the whole economy and therefore all families.

Notice how they only show the top half of pajeet. He's probably squatting and shitting on the floor.

average poltard

>everyone I don't like is a SJW

Depends on how you define Pajeet. Software written in India by outsourcing companies is complete garbage. Software written by Indians who came to America is acceptable but still poor. Software produced by Indians born/educated in America is top-tier quality.
t. Pajeet

>trusting a paki to write your code

Sorry Pajeet you have to go back.

Because developing software isn't particularly relevant in my line of work, I'd assume

Because he shits on streets.

/thread

Name one smart and competent Indian born in america.

Look at any uni here in USA. Of course they'll be bad ones, OK ones, and great ones like for any race/ethnicity. Try to prove your claim without using Sup Forums tier memes or anecdotal evidence

The burden of proof lies on the accuser, not the accused.

lol . Name one smart and competent white person born in america is actually a better question

Nice deflection. Feels good that anyone can make claims and the person calling out the bullshit has to provide proof

>Indians are just as smart as white people
>Okay, can you prove it
>LOL nice deflection. I don't have to prove it so just believe me. K thx

>blanket alt right meme to try to cast all people on the right with non-traditional values as being in one large hateful group

To answer the question, the free market should allow employers to outsource understanding the potential limits. Companies that outsource to Tata or HCL or Infosys typically get what they pay for. If they outsource locally (e.g. start up an office) and cultivate the right talent then offshore resources can be really smart. I worked with a very small outsourcing firm and they owed ~50% of their business to one company, and those guys were good.

But typically outsourcing is done for a dollar amount, and then to a third party. The third party wants to make as much money as possible, so they hire the shittiest/most inexperienced resources. Then at a software company I'm charging companies $2200/day to treat Pajeets how to do things that the company that sold Pajeet said Pajeet knew how to do already.

Then your pajeet gets a year or two of experience and actually knows some shit, so he goes and leaves for a higher paying job. Repeat and rinse on the inexperienced resource.

Regarding use of the H1-B visa, free markets should not mean free immigration. The United States has substantially higher cost of living. The current use of the visa and lack of enforcement means that foreign workers who are willing to undercut typical wages are given preference and often replace qualified american workers. This type of on-shoring should not be permitted, and the visa should be enforced to protect its original intention: Bring in a foreigner when there truly is no american that will suffice.

That is such a huge claim that you cannot prove it. If someone has the same education and had stricter requirements for school and work (affirmative action is stricter against Asians than whites) then what do you think?

>Education equals intelligence meme
I guess those gender studies degrees must mean you're really smart and useful.

I clearly mean within the same major. Also how many indians (or any one from the Asian continent) even do liberal degrees like that? Stop shifting the goal posts

The standard is profitability for the firm doing the outsourcing. Why should any company make less money in order to hire white people? Isn't that demanding a handout?

>* develops software of sufficient quality to be profitable
You've basically capitulated. You're not longer even willing to pretend that H1-B's are actually highly skiled labour or that their employment results in high productivity.

You are no longer even willing to pretend.

The company you work for exists to make money, i.e. profits.

Stay mad.

Without these pajeets most companies wouldn't survive. Definitely most companies are saving millions by just hiring pajeets because they are cheaper labour.

>Sup Forums - race baiting and politics
>Sup Forums - race baiting and politics
>/r9k/ - race baiting, women hate, and politics
>Sup Forums - race baiting and politics thinly veiled as video game discussion
>/sci/ - race baiting and politics

>works more hours than you

No shit. English is still a barrier to productivity for some, and the others... Fuck, I don't know why so many people are okay with being at work and jerking off wasting time when they could be productive somewhere else. Go ask them.

>sufficient quality

Big business LOVES sufficient quality.

"Hey guys, I know... Let's hire this guy for his skin color to make HR happy. Even if he ends up being smart, we'll leave him with these menial tasks that don't have a real impact on our business. He'll begin fucking things up because if the mind-numbing tedium, so it'll be easy to keep him out of management. Even if he turns out to handle that just fine, why would we care? We'll retire or move on to another company in ten years anyway, so he'll have to prove himself all over again to the new guard."

Fucking token hires.

>Why are there trolls trolling trolls on the internet.

>Sup Forums hates proprietary software
>but Sup Forums also believes that Indians are the only reason they don't have a six figure salary at Microsoft or Google

el oh fucking el.

when you own the resources directly and don't contract them, you can save tons by hiring people in cheaper areas. I work for a large software company and we have huge development houses in India, China, Eastern Europe, South America, etc... the best resources who do the best job often get brought to Europe or the US/Canada.

what happens standard at most companies is they will hire an outsourcing firm who says they can do pajeets who do X, Y, and Z. they then hire the laziest most inexperienced resources who will stick to the process to do the least possible work.

if you have 800 servers and you need them to run the command uname -a (or whatever, predictable steps), you can document it and email it to them. anything that requires any creative thought or problem solving and they can't do it.

then the quality of indian code, ugh. if you go to a third party firm you will either get killed by a high hourly (higher by far than salarying) or shit code or both. i worked for a pharma company, they would go to infosys for custom webparts, $90/hr and they would take forever/resultant code quality was abysmal.

as far as US based hiring goes, most hiring for H1-B in the US is done to pay a foreign resource to do the same work for less. The quality of some of these resources is appalling. they want to import an indian to do work for 40% less (or an even higher percentage). this shouldn't be allowed, it means less tax revenue for the government and depresses wages for lawful permanent residents and US citizens.

there are limits to the "free market" and this is why we have laws and regulations, and why we don't live in a free market where AOL-Time Warner-Pepsico-Viacom-Halliburton-Skynet-Toyota-Taco Bell-Trader Joe's owns the only road from your house to work and charges you $20 a day for it because fuck you they can.

>shipping in cheap labor to undercut the best paying sector of our economy is alt right

I can't tell how many levels of irony you're on.

this really is /po/ but i'll try to keep it Sup Forums + /biz/

if he's a citizen and pays taxes
if he works for a company with the same mandated health and safety costs and deductions as the country for which he is a citizen
if that companies product is sold within that country
then let the meritocracy do it's thing and he is welcome to get the job

the anti-globalism drive here is that instead of "competition in merit" we see shit outsourced to the lowest cost contractor and the savings come from lower cost of living and less oversight and regulation. people have watched the shifts between shitty 3rd world countries as the wealth influx makes them no longer the cheapest option and the companies move on.

this is more pronounced in software dev as the good or service can so readily be transmitted via the internet to bypass customs and costs of education vary so wildly its stupid.

basically it sounds completely unrealistic but for meritocracy on a global level we would need regulations and standards on a global level or international commerce is exploitative.

>quality is more important than profitability

How's the bubble treating you?

this is wrong. there's nothing top tier about american born indians. a bunch of sikhs came over here in the 70s and opened trucking and gas companies and got rich because as well all know sikhs are brotier. that's where le rich and intelligent indian meme comes from. everyone else is a hack IT related person that's getting by on brown privilege alone.

>works more hours than you
More hours does not mean more work done.

>develops software of sufficient quality to be profitable
Until it breaks and that mess of code costs the company more to fix than It would have cost to do it properly from the beginning

>is cheaper than you
Of course he is. His work is also lower quality.


I'm not saying all Indians are useless at coding. But you get what you pay for if you hire cheap code mokeys

many universities have had to reluctantly start anti cheat initiative for "foreign" students ,meaning chinese and indians who are too rich to figure out american culture and expectations. I simple google search would tell you this.

There are points where quality becomes a meme and points where it becomes actively harmful, like $4 walmart flip flops that chemically burn you.

Bad quality code can seriously be impactful. Some of my customers in production, downtime on the system can cost seven digits ($1,000,000-$9,999,999 USD) per hour. If custom code or even standard code fails, it can be extremely expensive.

For others, if they fail to account for controlled substances because a bug means the PO is not properly logged, or the right customs documentation is not printed on the right label, then they can be civilly or criminally liable for millions of dollars per incident. Utilities can be sued or punished by states if their management systems do not work properly.

Code quality in the enterprise is tremendously important for business critical systems (which is what I deal with). Poor quality code can cause tremendous costs, and it's why IT projects around such can cost seven or eight digit sums on their own.

>thinking HR manipulates office politics to hire someone who works more hours for less pay

>does not know what a bottom line is

this is the core of the issue in the US right now, does the law protect the citizens or the corporations (with their corporate I).
the standard is profit within the scope of law and the law should protect the interest of citizens. if you want the scope to be global then the law and regulatory costs must also be global (which is a bad idea imho).

How will the alt-rightards even prevent companies from outsourcing writing code? Firewall the internet?

That are foreign students. I am talking about Indian/Chinese/Asian students who were raised in America or were born and raised in America

*Those are foreign students

So you're content with less profitability and economic growth in order to get something for nothing? Sounds like liberalism to me.

no need to, because outsourcing code is fundamentally flawed. It isn't because pajeets and pjotrikovs can't code, it's just that code shops have more interest in just coding as long as they can milk you for money than they have in finishing a project.

Consider the scenarios:
first
>you come to them with rigid specifications
>you give them 500.000 for it
>they give you a barely working product investing literally hardly any time, it breaks down all the time, is shitty but meets specs
>you give them 300.000 to fix it
>they give you back an equally shitty product
>you give them 200.000 more
>the product is still shitty but you release it anyways

second
>you give them 500.000
>they finish a quality product because they are hard working and they hope your project will be successful

if the economic growth comes from outside the scope of my country, my companies are no longer entitled to it. multi-national companies consistently shell game this because they can. It's not my "less profitability", it's a corporations and that corporation is supposed to be working within the scope of my countries law. there is no magic global internet place and there is not intangible international place. it's all just someplace else with different laws

Sure, quality is a factor. I agree that businesses always have to weigh the risks against the returns. Many of them choose lower labor costs and outsource, so they must think it is worth it in the end. Why do you think the government should have to intervene and dictate what business decisions they can make if that isn't the case?

The entire economy is predicated on being globally integrated. What happens when this protectionist climate raises their costs enough to get them to reconsider their presence in "your country's" market?

How on earth are you planning on protecting the IT market?
I can agree on manufacturing jobs returning to the west, but some industries are globalist by nature and cannot be regulated.

I'm not, I just don't see how protectionism is economically justifiable. It's a capitalist economy, firms exist to maximize profits, and ultimately that's in the best interests of everyone. If you don't agree you can go live in some mercantilist or socialist hellhole.

That's just bullshit. In the Rheinland model a company is just like a country, with the interest of wanting the best for it's workers and stakeholders, while being profitable at the same time.

>believing in borders = liberalism
Yea nah.

Those are business decisions, not economic policy.

i do not accept your assertion about it being unconditionally predicated on global integration. this is something accepted for now that is not necessarily accepted tomorrow. the law needs to protect citizens and regulate companies that are within the scope of those laws. multinationals can reconsider if they wish. my employer has pulled production out of several markets now and only exports to them. is our price higher due to tariffs - yes. are the sales lower - yes. but is is the optimum we found in dealing with the county(ies) trade policy(ies).

Such decisions can only be made if the competition doesn't have the chance to make everything in China for 10% of the price.

Do you honestly believe Ford's decision to move manufacturing back to the USA is a bad one?

as strange as it sounds to Sup Forums my best guess is "here is our national SSL cert" any business done across our border must use it as part of the cert chain and you will be monitored by the internet compliance ministry.

kind of the same way every shipment by law must have a bill of lading and certain paperwork to clear customs.

i think we'll have the tech in 10 years

>manufacturing jobs returning

Youre a mental midget.

durrrr muh r0b0tzzz

business decisions in the context of regulatory compliance. DE has programming unions already.

>* is cheaper than you
on account of his employer not paying taxes

It's an economic fact, not something people accept or reject. You start raising costs with protectionist policies and there will be consequences expressed in the market.

Then you're demanding domestic markets build in inefficiencies for the sake of your own benefit. That isn't a free market, that's socialism.

>build inefficiencies
Bullshit. They never looked into actually making domestic production more efficient because China was booming and they would rather ship everything off to some 1950s factory completely fueled by rice than actually updating their domestic factories.

These days are over now. Chinks want more money and suddenly it's possible to manufacture with profit again in the west.

Regulations ought to protect the market against externalities. Effective regulations don't raise labor costs above their market value just so a specific country can capture and redistribute their profits.

This is why we hate you, Rajesh

Sikhs are literally bottom-of-the-barrel drudgery from the Indian subcontinent. I'd rather associate myself with a nigger than a Sikh.

>These days are over now. Chinks want more money and suddenly it's possible to manufacture with profit again in the west.

Then why should the government intervene at all? The market took care of the situation.

the attitude that everyone must swallow this is half the problem. "expressed in the market" as in scary recession or depression. if people feel they have no way out they may accept these consequences.

I'm demanding free market within my borders. don't pretend like any government in the world is truely laissez faire, it's just corporations getting away with what they can to the degree government permits. I'm suggesting less is permitted without being correctly assigned cost.

Because it's a fucking crime they allowed this to happen in the first place.
Industries belong to the people, and I'm not even communist.

*permitted internationally
sorry

>manufacturing jobs returning to the west
>manufacturing jobs returning to the west
>manufacturing jobs returning to the west
You mean, large robot factories with a couple of latino security guards and janitors, and a handful of operators (who're probably pajeets/chinks anyways) to watch over the control panel? (see: Tesla gigafactory)
>M-make America G-great again!

Indian-American IQ is higher than whites in the US. Although Indians from India have a pretty shit IQ:

Indian Americans: 106
American whites: 100
Indians: 82

I feel like Indians have a really low IQ from malnutrition and vegetarianism.

And an alt-right source:
thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/iqs-of-indians/

>muh robots
called it already fucking peabrain. Besides I'd rather have robot factories in the west than chinks siphoning off our wealth.

owned by individuals but I would agree if your saying that in the US corporations are permitted to exist by law on the assumption they will help the people

It's also a fact of human nature that it is impossible to fully get rid of protectionism, for the same reason government exists in the first place.
Zero protectionism = anarcho capitalism, which is just not a pragmatic, realistic, or achievable result.
Every country has some level of protectionism, in part because the ultimate duty of a nation (self-defense, preservation, and national security) automatically create protectionism. Even beyond this other functions of government or government supported entities (such as the Federal Reserve, the establishment of a currency, hell even having a language for your country) further creates protectionism. Each of these things is a necessary part of human existence and is impossible to remove. More importantly, it would be worse to abandon these things to have freer trade.
Moreover, Pareto Optimality in the market can only be preserved if there is a government or some agent present to compel individuals not to create externalizes (pollution like carbon emissions, for example) and to avoid situations like the Tragedy of the Commons or the Prisoner's Dilemma. Ultimately Anarcho Capitalism fails and will not work.

>Industries belong to the people, and I'm not even communist.

You are literally demanding socialism and trying to deny it. Ask mid-century e.europe and China before the Deng Xiaoping era how that worked out for them.

>I'm demanding free market within my borders. don't pretend like any government in the world is truely laissez faire, it's just corporations getting away with what they can to the degree government permits.

The government can enforce its laws in any way it sees fit, and these firms can also choose to take their assets elsewhere. The latter is a real possibility every globalized economy faces when it erects barriers to trade.

... all of them?

newamericamedia.org/2012/07/indian-americans-most-educated-richest-says-pew-report.php

Pakis are not even employed in the CS industry. Most of them drive taxis and run small businesses like restaurants and stores.

What are you smoking?

I'm a europoor and there is a 3rd option besides communism and socialism (considering you see them as seperate ideologies) that considers industry an essential property of the nation.

> that considers industry an essential property of the nation.

So collective ownership of industry isn't socialism when it's predicated on nationality? Are you fucking daft?

>develops software of sufficient quality to be profitable
>implying

>paki
>pajeet

I never said it's collective ownership. I say that companies should abide national laws while operating within countries and yes that means they are not free to go anywhere and shut down production as they please, unless of course they want to be barred from entering the market.

Fascism awknowledged this problem and in order to maintain productivity gave political access to the industry. A marriage between power and instury. Funny thing: this is actually what is happening in the USA right now with so many business leaders getting government positions under Trump.

protip: calling something out doesn't make it go away

>Fascists
>destroying technologies

Fascist technology is what put a man on the moon

von Braun never cared about Nazism. He only saw their funding as a means to an end.

>paki
This isn't 1979 anymore, grandpa.

It's not a problem, it's a reality and we will have to do everything to make sure these robot factories are build in the west.
Once we have robot factories it's game over for the rest of the world. We will have more wealth than in the 1950-1970 era.
It will be glorious. The entire 3rd world will collapse.

Ajit Pai

>industry an essential property of the nation
>literally says it's property of the nation
>not collectively owned by that nation

Now you're moving the goalposts.

>I say that companies should abide national laws while operating within countries and yes that means they are not free to go anywhere and shut down production as they please, unless of course they want to be barred from entering the market.

The countries in question already do have rule of law you goosestepping mongoloid.

I see but it's not really how I meant it. By property of the nation I try to mean that industry has to be considered essential for the well-being of the people and work will have to be based on a 2-sided contract in which the worker will have to want to make the company better while the company wants to help the people. It's not socialism, but not pure capitalism either.

Literally fixing a project that went from in-house to outsourcing, partly in India, back to in-house because outsourcing your own developers to someone who wants to make a profit from them is a shitty fucking idea if you want to keep costs down. And because India couldn't get anything done.

There are dozens of people I work with, me included that have changed companies twice within this project and are still working on exactly the same shit as they began with.

Only way outsourcing development ever works is if you do it yourself by hiring people in lower cost of living countries. If you go through some outsourcing company all you get is literal shit.

corporations are permitted to exist by the law of a country. a multinational is just a corporation that is registered in multiple countries and has inside channels (shared tech / infrastrucutre) between these independently registered and governed companies. they are not technically one company even though they like to pretend.

are you suggesting these companies should be able to use this position to transfer goods internally avoiding the federal regulations of the sending and receiving country? that sounds like a handout.

are you suggesting they should be able to use the education system in one country to develop tech to be used in the other country for free? that sounds like a handout.

tech has no way to handle this... yet. but all the enterprise governance and totally too over my head for my pitiful brain to understand resource expenditure doesn't change the fact they are permitted to operate in my country with my governments consent and if i live in a democracy or republic the government may not always permit it.

This seriously, they're the swagfag equivalent of the Indian community. The original ones worked but their descendants are trash tier that just get BMWs off their dads money. user it hit right on the spot they're like Indian niggers
It's not a meme, try living in any affluent county in the US, it's all Asian Americans like Indians who are doctors, lawyers, engineers, have firms, etc.
t. Nassau County resident