How long until we just call it "SystemD"?

How long until we just call it "SystemD"?

Other urls found in this thread:

openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2017/01/24/4
agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet
devuan.org/
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OpenRC
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Sakaki's_EFI_Install_Guide
shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21616608
phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTYwMzg
bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1167044
lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00010.html
github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/4234
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

How long until you just install a systemd-free distro (or replace it yourself) if you really care.
I recommand OpenRC (Gentoo based distros) or Runit (VoidLinux)

gentoo doesnt have this problem

install gentoo

why would you call kernel after something that runs in userspace?

If you don't use systemd you're a cuck

Fucking memers like you always forget the fact that the most popular distro, without systemd is PCLinuxOS.
Gentoo can have systemd anyway as it's a metadistro.

I don't get the hate for systemd.
I'm using arch, systemd was the default init system, so I have no reason to replace it.
It does it's job just fine. If there's a better alternative I might switch, but right now I just don't see the point

> inb4 muh cia niggers

Only those with something to hide are concerned about privacy. Nothing to hide so nothing to fear.

How mad can you keep getting at linux for using x over y despite no one using it on desktop anyway?
Does it make you VM running shitter or what?

nah, thats a stupid thing to say. Thats like saying you never close your door, because you've got nothing to hide.

You must be the funny guy on facebook.

>implying i don't live in a cave

Actually it's GNU/SystemD/Linux.

Its more than just an init system.

>Poettering described systemd not as one program, but rather a large software suite that includes 69 individual binaries

>in addition to the systemd init daemon, includes the daemons journald, logind and networkd, and many other low-level components.

Red Hat's basically taken over the whole Linux ecosystem. Nice

Would you recommend Manjaro OpenRC?

It's an unsecure piece of shit with a massive attack surface.

>Subject: Headsup: systemd v228 local root exploit
openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2017/01/24/4

Just switch to openrc senpai. It's pretty easy to do on Arch and people have some maintained repos for it.

I'm not running a server, so "massive attack surface" doesn't bother me too much.

Switching to something else is just a lot of effort for little noticeable gain

Does code quality concern you at all? Systemd has a horrible design. There was a time when this command would literally crash systemd.

NOTIFY_SOCKET=/run/systemd/notify systemd-notify ""
agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet

By design, systemd is far too complex and very prone to bugs. At this point in time, it's more accurate to think of it as a higher level kernel than an init system.

Sure it matters, I wish everything was coded neatly, using haskell or rust or whatever.

The point is that every major distro uses systemd and replacing it as a user is a hassle. So if the arch developers decided to switch to something else, then sure I'll go with it, but I won't go out of my way to fiddle with such an important part of my os

Every major distro uses systemd because it makes the maintainers life easier. It's not because it's better software.

>but I won't go out of my way to fiddle with such an important part of my os
That seems awfully complacent. You've never messed with a different bootloader or compiled a different kernel before? It takes like 10 minutes of your time to switch.

SystemD is fine

if you're going that route, install openrc on arch

How long before you stop buying into fud?

I don't actually know how much code is being created for systemD but I would suppose that a lot of code is being written and a lot of bugs are to be found.

imagine if you looked at 69 different programs that were as new and under as much development as systemD

do you think you would have a similar attack surface?

I suppose it would be smaller, just based on a shared code for multiple parts...

but then again the other 68 parts probably don't matter as much as PID1 which shouldn't have glaring bugs like you described.

I'm too intelligent to install Arch. Can I do this on Antergos?

VOID

The CIA is really on their game today

Not gonna lie, former SystemD user here. This is fucking hilarious watching SystemD crash and burn. But in all seriousness we can't let this this daemon get PID 1.

I was out of the loop for few decades, why does the hivemind hate systemd again?

I recall something about binary formats.

binary log files that can't be read by old simple tools, but can be read by new tools but you have to have the tool to read the log

don't want to learn a different tool. too hard

Local. That's laughable, but use what you want.

Isn't it too hipster?

systemd comes with an http server always enabled and does bullshit things over the network such as automatically connecting to the google dns if it can't connect to any of your dns's.

Faggit

My bank info, company info, and other documents that people can use to fabricate my identity are things that I want to hide.

How many people don't have these things? How many people have "nothing" to keep from other people?

I would expect that most people have information that they do not want exposed in a way that can be gathered and used by malicious people.

Everyone should be concerned about privacy.

Windows doesn't have systemd.

But it has Windows.

We're looking to trade up, not down.

>too intelligent for arch
gentoo, slack, lfs

You can still remove systemd from Debian but who knows for how long.

devuan.org/

I'm hoping they come out of beta soon.

Not using the distro mainteiner repos is bad for security, that's why aur are praised. I'd suggest to go for a systemd free distro like void, sabayon or gentoo

I wish I could install Gentoo

I say they'll be ready in april.

You can install any distro and replace the init.

So because you have nothing to hide you don't care about privacy?
Does it mean if you have nothing to say you don't care about free speech?

>aur
>distro maintainer
MY SIDES

No because 99.999% of them only provide packages that hard-depend on systemd.

It's a system where everyone gets the D. Everyone.

Seems like you can use OpenRC on Arch for example: wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OpenRC

sure you can
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Sakaki's_EFI_Install_Guide
literacy and a bit of patience are the only requirements

If systemd had just been an interchangeable init system it wouldn't be
so problematic. It's the scope creep and mess of poorly-defined
interdependencies that are truly shocking. Take logind, for
example. When looking at how to implement XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for
non-systemd inits, I couldn't find any actual specification for how to
do this. That's because there isn't one, just some loosely-worded
descriptions; it only exists in the systemd implementation. And the
semantics of it are very poor indeed; it hasn't been developed with
safety, security or flexibility in mind. We'll come to regret adopting
this since the poor design decisions are likely to become entrenched.

And more recently, there have been several reports of unbootable
systems. That's unconscionable, and a serious break with Debian's
traditionally solid support for backward compatibility. Here, existing
supported systems have had that support dropped on the floor. With
sysvinit great effort was taken never to break existing configurations,
and that appears to have been lost. Introducing dependency-based boot
took over two stable cycles; optional in one, default in the next,
mandatory after that. That could have been reduced certainly, but the
point is that time was taken to ensure its correctness and robustness
(and in the beginning, it did need work, so the wait was worthwhile).
This has not occurred with systemd, which has been made the default yet
is still not ready for production use.

Really only because of AUR. Arch also tries its best to pretend that anything that's not systemd is evil and is a virus that will kill your system (they didn't have that problem until they adopted it, coincidence?). Manjaro has much better support for arch without systemd than systemd itself, but of course what can be done in manjaro can be done in arch.

>Arch also tries its best to pretend that anything that's not systemd is evil and is a virus that will kill your system (they didn't have that problem until they adopted it, coincidence?)
Wait, where did anyone say that? On the page I linked ,it just says that OpenRC is not officially supported on Arch.

It used to be that the wiki contained complete information about using openrc on that page. Now it's hidden beyond 10 linked pages that all say that openrc should never been used under any circumstances and shit. That's just one of the way the systemd cabal is trying to take over the world.

What if i tell you that openrc is bigger trash than any hipster shitfest you have against systemdick? It's over.

I would ask how much is the pay and where I should apply because I would be jealous of your low-effort job.

systemd is stable as fuck and there haven't been any security concerns

Sup Forums is just dumb and trying to be contrarian to seem intelligent

i have servers that haven't rebooted for 5+ years

init systems are *not fucking important*

(((You)))

This is what retards like you deserve.

(faggot)
Go to bed, Lennart.

how long till windows 11

That's not bullshit at all

>leaking private information to a third party without your knowledge or permission is not bullshit at all

>It's an unsecure piece of shit
>posts link to a thing that was fixed

So how about Linux having escalation vulnerabilities that lasted 10 years? I guess Linux is much worse that systemd. Post proof of your claims in the source of systemd or shut the fuck up.

itt: mindless muh unix philosophy drones who know nothing about linux

GNU's
Not
Unix

Holy shit how poor is your understanding of the way the internet works if you think domains you request have ever been private information?

0.2 rupees are now in account pajeet! thankful for kindly do the needful!

Hey why not, they've got a duck on the logo, make it systemDuck

Where is that server? The ports are closed btw.

0.2 rupees in account pajeet!

Listen CIA nigger, we don't like it because it's huge and we didn't need it in the first place.

We never reboot, so boot time is a pointless metric. Init worked great.

Systemd uses a lot of resources on a small machine. It's averaging several percent at all times on my CHIP.

That's unacceptable, but I think Linux is just about done with on embedded at this point, too much bloat.

Also:

>huge
>never finished
>the spec is the code (ugh)
>I found out Poettring's parents are communists and so is he

Not him but I'd ask for proofs and for systemd to be stable before adopted.

It's beta quality at best, and Lennart isn't even telling us what he plans to subsume next with his shit software.

Alpine linux
Slackware

Use something else if you don't like it. Is it hard?

I already use init, but I enjoy ripping Lennart's beta shitware a new asshole at every opportunity.

Why bother with systemd? It's spyware, and beta quality spyware at that. Also it's very resource intensive and filled with bugs and security holes.

Since more and more packages are depending upon it, it may be difficult in the future.

>local root exploit in an """init""" system
>acceptable

Linux is a kernel and thus will unavoidably have bugs like that. However, systemd is some mysterious massive feature creep with security issues that no one is really sure what it does. I'll just stick to simple init systems like OpenRC.

From what I understand, the biggest problem is that it's slowly incorporating more and more key software needed to make linux work into itself. This makes it very difficult to replace for most people, so what would happen if the project sold out to a government or Google? Do you think most people would suddenly go through all the hassle of learning and setting up a free system? Or would most people be ok with a few, small binary blobs at the root of most of their OS in exchange for convenience?

systemd is working hard to make itself irreplaceable by doing too much too conveniently. This smells like a trojan horse for free software to me. If they continue to get bigger and then sell out they could put the movement towards free software years behind where it is now. Then you may as well use windows.

Here's a post I found by people who may know more than me: shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21616608

systemd is very shady software, but if you don't care about a bigger, down the line picture for free software then there's no convincing you to not use it.

Is VOID linux a good option? It uses runit instead systemd

local root exploits are possible in a lot of binaries, user, and those flaws go unnoticed for years

systemd has only had 16 exploits in eight years and each one has been discovered and fixed promptly

systemd is also free software and is RMS approved, so basically you're just being a gigantic whiny contrarian about something that doesn't matter to the Linux kernel and the free software movement

systemd is completely free software and RMS approves of it

you're just one of those nerds who believe in superstition and rumors about computers and muh unix messageboard philosophy

Anything that runs on PID1 should be more secure and better coded than your average piece of software. The fact that an empty string once crashed it doesn't give me faith in the coding abilities of Poettering and co.

Free software or not, systemd is bloat with a bunch of crap I don't need. OpenRC is simple and it works. It's been around for 9 years, and I don't believe it's had a single exploit, so I'll stick with it.

How long until you stop complaining about systemd?

systemd is more secure and better coded than your average piece of software though? and what difference does it really make if it's running in PID1 when you're talking about exploits that allow any binary to gain Root?

do you think there's some conspiracy that's forcing everyone to use it? there isn't, it's better than the system it replaced, user. come off your contrarian high horse

>systemd is more secure and better coded than your average piece of software though?
Crashed by an empty string.

>and what difference does it really make if it's running in PID1 when you're talking about exploits that allow any binary to gain Root?
It's not just specifically gaining root access. If something goes wrong with systemd, your whole machine can crash as opposed to just the one program.

>do you think there's some conspiracy that's forcing everyone to use it?
Maybe, maybe not. I find this argument most irrelevant either way.

>there isn't, it's better than the system it replaced
It might be better than sysinvit (which it replaced), but not OpenRC.

It's really called GNU/SystemD

cool. That variety is why we have open source.

I like how fast SystemD boots my laptop, and my security needs on that thing are minimal.

OpenRC with parallel enabled boots in like 5 seconds for me.

Cool. I'll put it on my list of things to play with. Maybe I'll get to it next summer.

I wish I was joking.

find a security sploit then, lol

here's the thing: i never hear actual software engineers complain about systemd

i hear a lot of losers on message boards cry about it though, which is really just a meme from people who can't read C as well as they can read shell scripts

basically the anti-systemd crowd is the modern equivalent of an illiterate mob with pitchforks attacking something new that they don't understand

y'all just in an echo chamber full of other clueless nerds

Yes it is.

It's pretty much the next xorg

alright cool. I mostly stuck with ubuntu but when I discovered crunchbang I've always wanted to get deeper into more obscure shit. Gonna setup an openbsd email server at home and try out VOID linux on another PC

Enjoy your buggy crapware.
phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTYwMzg
bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1167044
lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00010.html
github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/4234

I've given plenty of seasonable arguments against systemd in this thread. And there are plenty of alternatives like runit or openrc that are less buggy, less intrusive and easier to use. It's time to wake up from the Poetterring brainwashing and get yourself a simple, elegant init system.

Nice sans-systemd setup. I like the attention Void's been getting around here.

all those issues were fixed immediately lmao

did you even read any of those

the anti-systemd crowd isn't interested in being reasonable, are they