Is anybody else ready for the chipped credit/debit card meme to die
>PROCESSING - DO NOT REMOVE CARD
>20-30 SECONDS LATER
>BEEP BEEP BEEP [at 70 decibels] REMOVE THE FUCKING CARD YOU IDIOT
Even cash is faster now. Can we just go back to swiping or cut chips and just go contactless?
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I just started using cash again
In Europe, we've had chips for the last 15 years but everyone is using contactless and/or mobile payment these days. It's funny how Americans is really lagging behind when it comes to payment.
Fun fact: there are people in the US that receives an actual pay check, as in, the employer writes out an actual check which you have to cash in.
>this is what Americlaps have to put up with
>Is anybody else ready for the chipped credit/debit card meme to die
It won't, but I'll patiently wait for you dumb-fucking-ass retarded swipefags to finally kill yourselves.
At this point these threads are literally baiting and
It takes like 5 seconds most here.
I'm ready for encrypted NFC with passcode/phrase or something similar.
youtube.com
fucking americans I swear to god
That can't be legal.
Is this a joke?
How do checks even work, I read about them but never seen one in real life. Do you just go to a bank or store with a slip of paper with a number and a signature on it and they give you money? What's to prevent people from just writing checks in other peoples name (how would they even check if the signature matches) or just adding some zeroes?
>20-30 SECONDS LATER
>United States of America
ayyy lmao
The newest generation of chip payment machines work almost instantaneous. The type of lags you describe were a thing ten years ago.
>finally using chip when everywhere else is using nfc
what the fuck america lmao
My American girlfriend verified this. Before she moved here she got checks which she had to cash in.
That's fucking crazy considering I haven't ever even seen a check outside of those huge "you won money in a competition" checks in my entire life. Money has always just gone straight to the bank account.
oh and she moved here in january so it's still how they do shit over there.
Checks are personal, they have all sorts of watermarks and numbers that aren't easily forged.
Ironically, plenty of banks in the US have different variants of digital checks now.... Meaning that you still have to manually cash them in yourself.
It's very real, but not very common. It still is a real thing, though.
Checks - think of an analog debt card.
yes, but cant i just add a zero?
lol this. sometimes its even faster
Well, pay checks are usually machine printed. But yes, you can technically do that. This is why US laws regarding this is extremely strict though, to try to scare you off from doing this. Changing $200 to $2000 doesn't seem so motivating when you risk 15+ years in prison for fraud.
>Fun fact: there are people in the US that receives an actual pay check, as in, the employer writes out an actual check which you have to cash in.
They print it. No writing actually occurs. The place where I work has the option for direct deposit, check, or bank card. It's really up to you.
oh snap.
Cryptography is not a meme.
Almost everyone has direct deposit. Contactless died when banks implemented it too early in the US and it was easily cloned, killing trust in contactless.
That works barely anywhere.
We have brand new Ingenico and Verifone machines in the US that take this long.
It is when it's very slow and poorly implemented.
It's supposed to prevent card present fraud that results from card cloning. In reality, EMV is flawed in a way that allows banks to blame consumers for fraudulent purchases.
cl.cam.ac.uk
>EMV, also known as"\Chip and PIN", is the leading system for card payments world-wide
>[...]
>We have discovered that some EMV implementers have merely used counters, timestamps or home-grown algorithms to supply this number. This exposes them to a \pre-play" attack which is indistinguishable from card cloning from the standpoint of the logs available to the card-issuing bank, and can be carried out even if it is impossible to clone a card physically (in the sense of extracting the key material and loading it into another card). Card cloning is the very type of fraud that EMV was supposed to prevent.
>[...]
>We found flaws in widely-used ATMs from the largest manufacturers. We can now explain at least some of the increasing number of frauds in which victims are refused refunds by banks which claim that EMV cards cannot be cloned and that a customer involved in a dispute must therefore be mistaken or complicit. Pre-play attacks may also be carried out by malware in an ATM or POS terminal, or by a man-in-the-middle between the terminal and the acquirer. We explore the design and implementation mistakes that enabled the flaw to evade detection until now: shortcomings of the EMV specification, of the EMV kernel certification process, of implementation testing, formal analysis, or monitoring customer complaints.
>that works barely anywhere
?????????????
>Fun fact: there are people in the US that receives an actual pay check, as in, the employer writes out an actual check which you have to cash in.
Can confirm. Worked at restaurant a couple years back, and they did physical paychecks. Last I checked, the restaurant still does them. It's just easier for mom and pop shops.
I also get paid in checks for music lessons and freelance dev work, but I don't think that counts because I'm getting paid directly by the students/parents/clients.
On the flip side, I've gotten paid electronically for performing in stage shows, which just seems ass backwards. You shouldn't have to fill out so much extra paperwork just so they can send a one time payment. Especially considering that the next time I performed for them, they had lost/invalidated all that paperwork, so I had to fill it out again.
(To fill out the burgerland data points, jobs I've done at a video store, at a university, and as a software engineer have all done electronic payments.)
>have automated payment system that prints out checks automatically every pay day
>employee must manually cash in money and put it in his account
>employee must manually deduct taxes and save them so he can pay the government at a later point
>instead of just depositing money directly into your account taxes automatically deducted and information sent to the government (for taxing purposes) so your tax returns automatically have updated info
Americans are so fucking weird, I swear.
>
>Well, pay checks are usually machine printed.
>machine printed
Wtf why not just use bank transfers? Apparently they have all relevant information electronically available. Why spend money on printing things on paper, adding the inconvenience of having to cash the check in person.
I know how checks work and that they used to be a thing, but in my entire life I've never been in contact with one. And I'm 30+. Even my father can't recall the last time he handled a check. Definitely not after 1990.
In the US most stores that have NFC capable readers, they aren't enabled or aren't working properly. I'd put my success rate in using NFC via Visa Paywave (Only card that has it is my Costco Visa credit card) and via Apple Pay/Android Pay at about one in eight.
It's gotten a little bit better since Apple has been shilling Apple pay, but not much.
>My American girlfriend verified this. Before she moved here she got checks which she had to cash in.
>That's fucking crazy considering I haven't ever even seen a check outside of those huge "you won money in a competition" checks in my entire life. Money has always just gone straight to the bank account.
A lot of companies offer direct deposit but you have to sign up for it. Otherwise youll just receive a check in the mail like normal.
Business is mostly done through checks although a few companies are moving to ACH/direct deposit.
My families business offers both check payment and ACH though we charge 2% for ACH as it's paid faster (next day) than our check runs (~25 days)
>That works barely anywhere.
It works in all of Europe and most of the big cities in the US, wtf?
>BEEP BEEP BEEP [at 70 decibels] REMOVE THE FUCKING CARD YOU IDIOT
just pull out the instant it say "approved"
Most credit cards are chip-and-signature in the US, meaning they don't say "approved" until
1) the card is removed (already beeping at you at this point)
2) the signature prompt appears (this only happens after the card is removed
3) a signature is signed on the screen and submitted
Bank Meme. TOP LEL.
> (You)
>We have brand new Ingenico and Verifone machines in the US that take this long.
Shitty infrastructure maybe?
Hey OP do I have a car for you!
Money expires before you buy anything
>Wtf why not just use bank transfers? Apparently they have all relevant information electronically available. Why spend money on printing things on paper, adding the inconvenience of having to cash the check in person.
Because MUH FREEDOM
>I know how checks work and that they used to be a thing, but in my entire life I've never been in contact with one. And I'm 30+. Even my father can't recall the last time he handled a check. Definitely not after 1990.
I'm also 30 and I only dealt with checks from American customers back when I worked at this ferry company.
But in fairness, most Americans just used their credit card. I worked there for 4 years and only had to deal with checks 3 times, but it was a fucking hassle and I had to go through a tedious procedure to ensure that it was filled out correctly and valid, with a queue building up.
Some people don't have/want a bank account so they can't set up direct deposit.
When writing a check you have to write the amount out in words as well as numbers. My landlord only takes checks still, so I have to write "$775.00" and "Seven hundred seventy five and 00/100" both on the face of the check in ink. It's hard to alter a check after it's been made out and it's a serious offence.
>use chip
>still need signature
Either this is trolling or Americans are even beyond retarded. The whole point of chip+pin is that it is safer than magnetic stripe + signature. I've never ever encountered a terminal that required both chip and signature.
I've written maybe three checks my whole life. I was always told to write a line after the last digit. Most stores will still take them, but nobody else will.
Germany here
>insert card
>enter 4 digit PIN
>wait 2 seconds
>quiet beep notifying me that the transaction is done and I can now remove the card
It's not that bad, certainly better than fearing for people making copies of your card and having to put them in magnet-blocking sleeves.
Banks rarely offer chip and pin in the US, and if the payment terminal offers signature, it's usually preferred even if PIN is supported. Banks think Americans are super lazy and will be more likely to use another credit card if they're forced to enter a PIN.
Look at this list and how many are chip-and-sig only or chip and sig preferred:
docs.google.com
Banks had PINs on debit cards long before chips so those largely use PINs. But if the debit transaction is processed in credit mode, then even on debit cards it's chip-and-signature.
Is it a good idea to tell your bank where and what you eat for how much money?
Considering that you are what you eat, we live a post snowden world and money rules our reality?
That's really, really strange if you ask me. Both my debit card and my credit card use the same system, chip + pin because signatures are considered inherently unsafe and worthless. Only on the offline fallback mode (meaning when terminals go offline due to powerouts or whatever), do they require your signature and a photo ID.
It used to be common back when most restaurants would swipe the magnetic stripe and then come back to your table to get your signature, but now everyone just use these handheld terminals requiring you to use chip and enter pin (for tipping they are required by law to have built in protection for tipping above 20%, so even if you mistakenly enter your pin when you should enter tip amount, the terminal will simply refuse the transfer).
>>employee must manually deduct taxes and save them so he can pay the government at a later point
>>instead of just depositing money directly into your account taxes automatically deducted and information sent to the government (for taxing purposes) so your tax returns automatically have updated info
>Americans are so fucking weird, I swear.
Tbf, there are good reasons for bit deducting taxes immediately. People actually realize how much money they are giving to the government when they have to make the transfer themselves and see a bill for the yearly sum. That also makes them more conscious of what they receive in return.
Moved from Germany to Switzerland some time ago. In Germany, every pay discussion always revolved around net pay. Here people always discuss gross pay. Taxes are reasonable and the tax code is understandable without dedicated study for years. Rant over.
Prepaid debit cards exists for this purpose, anonymous payment in the digital age. I fill it up every month on pay day, and use that for day to day transactions.
The processing takes the same time be it chip or swipe.
Though I hear some places in America still require signatures after swiping which is a bit boggling.
You literally cannot tip more than 20%?
yep, lots of checks still
if you don't want one you can do direct deposit
Prepaid reloadable debit cards are basically banking accounts minus the features. Per anti-money laundering provisions in the patriot ACT, banks are required to collect SSNs for reloadable accounts.
Prepaid gift cards (non-reloadable) don't require giving an SSN, but they have a fee (usually $6-$10) on top of the value and then you can't reload them.
No. I can with cash, of course, but I never use cash anywhere.
It's different in my country though.
someone has a patent on NFC.
similar to microsoft having a patent on the smart/touch table for the past 30 years and nobody able to make a table that is "smart" device with NFC payments like japan has all over
>don't want to leave an electronic trail
>but credit card offers incredible rewards
Ok, yeah, my post was exclusively about the US.
Personally I pay most of my meals in cash, and as far as restaurants go, they can tell where you went but not what you ate. If I go to a sandwich shop I probably had a sandwich, steakhouse probably a steak. If I go to the cheesecake factory with their thirty plus page menu good luck figuring out what the hell I had.
I use the apple watch and i don't have to do that chip shit
>someone has a patent on NFC.
You're wrong
wright in a benis
dem feeels
I still receive actual paychecks. It doesn't cost anything and a physical act of putting the check in the ATM is strangely satisfying.
same
feels bad man
Not really, that's why they don't have it all over, it's some meme off-patent like apple owning the touch screen
I have Charles Schwab Bank and I just open the app on my phone, take a picture of the front and back, and presto, done.
If the payment posts and isn't disputed after fourteen days, you shred the check. If it is disputed, I put it in a prepaid envelope and sent it to the bank.
payroll deductions are an employee/contractor distinction. Not form of payment.
Right. Well, I usually pay with my normal debit card. There are some quite strictly enforced privacy laws in my country that requires my bank to delete all transactional data except time and sum after four months, so the government can't really tell what exactly I've spent money on.
Americans and their potato DSL ridden with datacaps... you guys are truly fucked over by those companies. o7
> certainly better than fearing for people making copies of your card and having to put them in magnet-blocking sleeves.
How does that even work? You cant read a magnetic stripe card remotely. If anything, it's the chip cards that need the blocking sleeves because they can be read remotely.
You lying.
>that's why they don't have it all over,
Well, 1) they do have it all over europe and most of the US and 2) the real reason is because credit card companies prefer to use their own solutions so they can charge royalties from everyone.
>it's some meme off-patent like apple owning the touch screen
It isn't. It's literally an open ISO standard. Stop spreading misinformation, it's like you're a CNN shill or something.
nobody's talking about the standard except you, though
>eurococks are so used to fiat, worthless sequences of 0s and 1s that they dont even understand the concept of "true value" money anymore
not like the dollar is any better but jesus
>though we charge 2% for ACH
WHAT THE FUCK
If you have it in your wallet, and you wallet in your pants, then someone can hold a device against your pants for a second and read the card that way. Won't notice it in a crowd.
The chip is implemented using some 512-bit AES/RSA encryption scheme.
The cards with the wireless NFC chip can be read remotely, but they use a dynamic CVV3 for transactions. Replay attacks (capturing output of the card once and repeating it) are impossible. Man in the middle (reading a chip at time of transaction from someone else not near the register, relaying it over a mobile phone and playing that to a register) is theoretically possible but hard.
"Chip" cards with a visible silver/golden chip on the left edge are contact chips and are not readable remotely.
this
weak
it takes that long for 512bit? lel
>there are people in the US that receives an actual pay check
Frenchman here, some of the jobs I had, the boss gave me a paycheck
I liked going to the bank to cash it in, it was more enjoyable than just checking my account
>you can't understand the true value of money unless you have physical dollar bills
Are you mentally challenged? Is exchanging physical objects literally the only thing that prevents you from giving away more than you actually have?
This is like seeing someone complaining how farming is really slow and that we should go back to being hunter-gatherers.
>I liked going to the bank to cash it in, it was more enjoyable than just checking my account
Considering that most banks don't even have offices anymore (they're solely online), and in the rare cases that they do, they close at 15:00, it is a hassle.
kek this
there is no value in any type of currency unless YOU (the person) thinks so
Not that user but it's pretty well established that people tend to value their electronic funds less than physical funds. You're not spending what you don't have, but you ARE spending where you may have chosen not to
Seems like an urban legend. The problem is that you have to run the scanner along the stripe on credit card, which is thin and a good 3 inches long. Not to mention the difficulty of constructing a reader that can read through your pants and wallet (normal readers pretty much only work if the head is almost touching the card. Not as trivial as simply tapping some guy's back pocket.
>Considering that most banks don't even have offices anymore (they're solely online), and in the rare cases that they do, they close at 15:00, it is a hassle.
What the fuck
>any year
>not exclusively paying in cash
Yeah I looked it up and it only works with contactless credit cards. Those have a range of a few inches and can be read through pants, just like I said.
non-contactless magnetic only can only be read by skimmers krebsonsecurity.com
Where I live, in western Europe, it is common for children to not have bank accounts but just physical money, precisely so they can learn the value of money appropriately, spending and saving, etc. Or they have a bank account that they can deposit/withdraw money from at a bank, but no way to pay electronically. Many children get a proper (though limited) electronic payment card of some sort around 12-13.
tl;dr Americans are children and can't handle adult moneys.
Just use the ATM senpai
Employee wages, renting office space, following security routines for dealing with money, renting security guards etc is expensive as fuck. Even ATMs are being phased out, because most people never use them.
Everyone uses card and online banks anyway.
Land of the free eurocucks, we have based pro white president trump.
See Also
>ATM
>cash in bank checks
>all these underage kiddos never experienced the joy of taking their paycheck to the bank on payday
honestly i feel bad for you
I refuse to get direct deposit because of this
Yes, most ATMs will deposit checks. It's really nice actually.
>Having a (((bank account)))
>Not storing your life savings in a safe where the jews can't get it.
It's the same here in northern Europe, there's an age limit on having a debit card tied to your account at 12 or 13, and even then it's this visa electron system that provides a bunch of safeguards.
>You're not spending what you don't have, but you ARE spending where you may have chosen not to
That's the same argument against physical money, though. Dealing with physical money costs everyone a lot of money, due to tedious routines and security checks and transport. In My country, it is therefore not uncommon that you have to pay an extra fee for using physical money instead of their card terminal. Politicians are pushing hard to remove a law requiring shops etc to accept cash payments, so in near future it is expected that small shops will refuse cash and only accept electronic payment.
...
I'd imagine that I get equally exited to wake up every pay day by an automatically sent SMS from my bank telling me that I've received my salary.
Also, I've configured a bunch of automatic payments for all of the recurring bills I have (electricity, broadband, downpayments, bus card, monthly savings etc) so when I use my money, I can be sure that everything left on my account is 100% spendable.
This is pretty spot on. Children are never taught the value of money, then grow up and, unsurprisingly, spend money left and right because their parents enabled them.
On a similar note American children can't legally work until 16 which is 100% bullshit