Meme Text Editors

Explain why you write software in a text editor from 1980

I use Sublime, though I never fell for any marketing. I just saw a few people using it here and decided to try it out.

>tfw ywn be a programmer in the 80s.

Are you implying projects more than 500 LoC were not written in Vim or Emacs?

Congratulations, you got yourself caught in a marketing scheme.

It is comfortable and very light weight.

Explain to me how in the year of the lord + 2016 Visual Studio or PHP Storm runs like fucking shit slowing down the whole system in a Core i5 with 8GB of RAM.

Why should I need to buy an expensive computer because software is bloated like hell.

I use both Vim (for the particular) and Sublime Text (in general)

>Reading the docs every 5 minutes

Why are you so underage? Sure Vim is """"""""""hard""""""""" the first week (if you are an underage brainlet), I got used to it in 2 days, the most common functions you learn them right away, and the rest with the use end up sticking in your head as well, if you are smart enough to program you can use Vim/emacs, you are just a lazy nu-male faggot.

I don't understand this, it is practical and light-weight, I ditched the heavy bloated IDEs for this and it is day and night.

VS been literally free for indie developers for years by now, with literally every feature an indie developer could need

if you somehow don't fall in a category that can use VS for free, you're def not poor.

wtf guess I'll download closed source/500MB IDE/MSVC shit now

>Roslyn went opensource
>.NET went opensource
>MSBuild went opensource

Maybe about 10% of the codebase that runs when you develop in VS is still closed source, depending on the project type

The IDE and C++ compiler are probably like 70% of the code

But no marketers were involved, just other programmers.

>Why are you so underage? Sure Vim is """"""""""hard""""""""" the first week (if you are an underage brainlet), I got used to it in 2 days

Have you ever programmed anything in your life? do you not have to deal with these types of functions daily?
>int foo(int a, double b, char* c, char* d, int* e)
imagine having 100+ of these types of functions you have to write every day without an IDE?

No you cant not use an IDE because people expect you to have one and if you don't use one you're stealing company time and money

>Teacher uses sublime text
>Every lecture he stops to close the "pls buy our software" pop up window
>ask him why he wont just use atom as its essentially the same thing
>gets emotionally hurt and starts saying something about load times
>walk away slowly

>doesn't realize that certain things last decades for good reasons
>read also: unix

>Computers a bicycle for the mind
>Teach yourself programming, appreciate the logical beauty of a well thought out piece of code
>Apply mathematical concepts from on high to your beautiful, practical utility, that you will distribute to the rest of humanity
>Do it all using the tools that were developed by your forebears that they gave you free of charge

I understand why some people use Visual Studio, but it seems bad, tacky, and even disrespectful in a way -- anyone who has true passion for programming, technology, and software should understand why using proprietary tools is bad, and what it will lead to in the future.

Like seriously, I really enjoy playing around in Lisp for fun -- Emacs is the best way to do that, because of course, Emacs is open source and entirely written in Lisp. I can edit the code that runs my editor to *while I'm working on something* -- my code interacts with my editor, and my editor interacts with my code.

When you really *get* Emacs / Vim / Open Source, it's like a religious awakening.

I have built-in autocompletion for C/C++,python,ruby,haskell,javascript, and java for Vim. This flowchart is wrong.

>int foo(int a, double b, char* c, char* d, int* e)
>imagine having 100+ of these types of functions you have to write every day without an IDE?
What's the problem?

> be pythagoras
> a^2 = b^2 * c*2
>> but why pythagoras?
> it is true, it has been working for years
> > oh okay
[and all was right in the world and mathematics; and thus the future]

I write directly on the terminal and use cat to save it in a file.

>When you really *get* Emacs / Vim / Open Source
I think that Emacs is truly what open source is supposed to be about, and most programs miss it entirely.

Try vs code it's really good alternative to sublime..

Here's my preferred tools :

NetBeans
IntelliJ
Visual Studio 2012+
Visual Studio code

Why does VS take forever to start? Easily the slowest program going from first click to open in half a minute when literally no other program I have does that, not even on a toaster.

i had the same realization recently

just imagine if math proofs were closed source

imagine: instead of being able to use the poisson distribution formula to find the number of independent events in a fixed time, you have to pay for a license for PoissonFormPro, enter your inputs, and then at the end you only get the answer, instead of a proof of why this important thing is true

now imagine that it's like this for all of math: nobody actually knows how to calculate the volume of anything, because that's handled by CalcPro, which is owned by the Newton-Liebniz corporation, and you just have to trust that they're right, and hopefully they are, or else the spaceship you're trying to engineer is going to blow up and kill a lot of people

software is 100% the same thing, and it's disgusting on every intellectual level (and some levels physical) that at the present some people are willing to put up with this

>do you want to pretend you're a programmer from the 80s

yes, i do actually

why eclipse over m'ntellij..

If I buy an iPhone because most people have one, would you say I didn't fall for a marketing scheme because no marketers were involved?

>fall for marketing

Never seen a sublime text ad ever. I didn't even learn it from Sup Forums, I just Googled up "text editors"

Eclipse is free and people on Sup Forums are poor and don't go to school, so they can't get all the masterrace jetbrains IDE library for free.

>Googled up "text editors"
that's an ad

Fuck Stallman, this is what open source advocating should be about.

I have adblock on.

Unless your saying every search engine result is an ad, which muddies the meaning of the word "ad" to the point of meaningless in the same way SJWs have muddied the word "racist" to the point of meaningless.

If you're putting out code quickly enough that your editor can't keep up, you are not putting out good code. You're a code monkey who can't implement any algorithm that can't be expressed as dozens of nested if statements.

Atom was the most bloated piece of shit I've ever seen
Never seen a FUCKING TEXT EDITOR to be so damn slow and jerky

for starters, i own:
- Sublime Text 3
- Visual Studio Enterprise (including 2017, but most of them desu)
- JetBrains IntelliJ
- JetBrains PyCharm
- Coda

of them:
- Sublime Text 3: It's OK. It's starting to show its age. The plugins are pretty far behind Atom.
- IntelliJ/PyCharm: Say what you want, these are bloated pieces of shit, but god are they wonderful to work in.
- Coda: this doesn't make sense to use anymore. It really doesn't.
- Visual Studio: It's OK. Honest to God, I find myself using it for less and less. Nobody wants Windows programs anymore. I do more web development now, and I don't prefer VS for that - too heavy.

So what I actually use is:
- PyCharm/IntelliJ - again, it's good
- Visual Studio Code - Better than Atom in my opinion, though the UI is confusing sometimes. This is where I do all of my web development.
- Neovim - for lightweight editing. It's better at handling large files than basically anything else I have.

You don't know their search algorithm. They may very well be raising positions of search results for products that are long-term users of google adsense in good standing. That would be literally and ad without any change of meaning of the word. Ofc I'm not saying they do that, it was just an offhand shitpost, after all. But you're wrong, search result position may be an ad.

I used emacs exclusively for about ~5 years. Then I needed to start writing code in F#/C# and decided that, what the hell, I may as well try out The Microsoft Way(tm) and install Visual Studio. I literally cannot believe the shit I missed out on. I mean, I knew people joked about us using "editors from the 60s" but FUCK.

I still use emacs when I write Lisp (or general text notes), but I'm conscious of how tedious and painful it can be compared to the refactoring, debugging, etc. tools I get in a full-IDE like VS where the compiler is literally integrated with the editor and can give you direct feedback.

>tfw using CIA key for sublime

I dont even care for it but why the fuck not

Sure, with the exceptions for software wherein the whole point of it is exclusivity. The fewer people who have access to the source code my banking app runs on, the better right?

Because I legitimately don't understand the purpose of an IDE. It's a text editor with a lot of pretty features and menus, but as a tradeoff the launch times are abysmal and the program itself is a slow, bloated resource hog, and the reality is that almost all of the useful features already exist in lightweight text editors anyway.
In-editor debugging is nice though, I'll give it that.

Why would they do that for free? Makes no sense. Please keep your conspiracy theories back on Sup Forums where they belong.

I'd disagree. The only reason why you'd want to hide the source code for your banking app is because it sucks, and you're afraid of people finding exploits in the code, right?

Take Bitcoin for example -- that's all open source, including the financial ledger, and it handles hundreds of millions of dollars worth of transactions

k, it's not for free. Sublime includes google's botnet code and google puts it at the top of the search for text editors - everybody wins. Evidence will come out soon, right after proof of Obama's wiretaps

Same guy commenting again -- if I had the option of using a banking app that was completely open source, and had been stable for years, I'd rely on that instead of your closed source banking app, hands down. And a lot of times I do -- I've got just as much money in cryptocurrency as I do in my 'real bank'. I feel more secure about the stuff that I have on crypto exchanges, because it's open source, I've got two factor authentication, and twenty four character passwords. My stupid bank can't accept passwords longer than 16 characters, can't do two factor auth, and for a long time stripped capital letters out of password inputs. I've got no reason to trust their banking applications.

imo: open source really is the future. We're just living at the start of the computing age, people trusting significant sums (and large projects) to code that isn't accessible to them won't last

find usages
goto implementation
realtime error checking
code generation
performance suggestions

>because it sucks, and you're afraid of people finding exploits in the code
Sure, and if you're competent enough to check out the code for yourself you could even pick out what you find most secure. But for everyone else, they're still going in with the same blind trust, but now if there are viable exploits they'll be found almost certainly in time. Military software, financial software, and perhaps some other areas shouldn't rely on obfuscation, but if it adds one more barrier then it might be worth denying the layman access.

Tax dollars at work!

just FYI all of that stuff is offered in Vim, Atom and Visual Studio Code when using appropriate configurations. For Go, it's completely on-par with the IDE experience (though the only IDE around for Go is Gogland EAP.)

I really find that I can't work with any IDE besides eclipse nowadays. Even eclipse is fucking shit that can't change perspectives automatically when debugging programs.
It's like there is no good IDE for C for some reason.
I even tried CLion but that shit doesn't support gnu autotools and hardware debugging so there is no point to it besides looking pretty

This is true. Security through obscurity is obviously a bad thing, but it can work well for a long time.

I'm going to point out that hiding the source code from the layman hasn't made software more secure - Windows is closed source, after all. Anyone looking to find exploits doesn't need the source, they get working dumping shit into whatever inputs you give them.

Same for JavaScript. VSCode gets realtime linting and typechecking.

>they said it was 10 licenses only

Yeah, nothing about closed source makes it less prone to finding exploits. Obfuscation techniques at best increase time cost by a constant, that may prevent people from unpacking/deobfuscating your code if this initial cost isn't worth it to spend to crack non-critical/unpopular software as a result but won't stop anyone knowledgeable if the goal is worth it.
Even for web services which an attacker can't disassemble security through obscurity doesn't work too well since they are still getting exploited, but in that case it def has more merit

We're stepping outside of my comfortable areas of knowledge here, but isn't Reverse Engineering one of the major hurdles for exploitation, and isn't RE trivialized when the project is open source?

muh security through obscurity

It's not trivialized, it practically doesn't exist. You don't need to 'reverse engineer' something if you can see how it was engineered to begin with.

I think security by obscurity does work, but it's a temporal measure, and if someone wants to hack you badly enough it's worthless. It just so happens that not many people are trying to poke the bear with online banking right now.

The problem with security by obscurity is that it isn't sustainable. Someone skilled enough with a motivation to hack a thing will eventually do just that. So what has proven sustainable is in fact, open sourcing what we can, getting professional security audits done on core components, and offering bug bounties for when bugs are found so that they get patched instead of landing on the black market.

>Reverse Engineering one of the major hurdles for exploitation

It depends on how bad source code is heh. And yeah, it's easier to look for bugs in source but RE isn't a MAJOR hurdle. You can map parts of code to theirs functions through many techniques, like differential debugging, analyzing OS's and known libraries' api usage, data flow etc.

Yup, being able to completely reverse engineer something is one way to find exploits. However, it's not the only way, nor even the best way.

A lot of times, you can find exploits and have no idea how they're even possible, or how the underlying system works: you just keep pounding the program's inputs with various types of data, and eventually get it to execute something. This is fuzzing.

I don't need to fully understand your SQL database (or any of your code) to find a web form that doesn't escape SQL commands properly.

IDE's are too slow and bloated. My laptop has pretty decent hardware (2C/4T i7 @ 2.8 GHz, 8GB RAM), but even so all the "real" IDE's I've tried take a frustratingly long amount of time to start up, and the UI is cluttered to the point that it becomes a distraction. I personally prefer to use tools that do one thing well, rather than one tool that tries to do everything. The only IDE's that I really feel comfortable using are the ones like Dev-C++ or the one that comes with Open Watcom, which are basically lightweight editors with an integrated file manager and a menu option to run the compiler. As for editors themselves, I usually prefer Notepad++ or something similar, or pico/nano. Really all I need is syntax highlighting, and line numbers to help find errors; beyond that, I'd rather keep the interface clean and system requirements low rather than deal with featuritis. If I need automatic code generation, or macro generation, or directory visualization, I'd rather use external tools for that, rather than fill the editor with stuff I'm just going to end up ignoring 99% of the time. If you feel your codebase is such that you need an IDE to make sense of it, then it's probably time to refactor it into independent modules (something which modern programming languages are specifically designed to do).

Apologies for lack of clarity, I do not mean to suggest that obscurity should ever be the only measure of defense. I'm arguing, somewhat for the sake of discussion, that it may serve as a useful layer in some cases.
Cases of successful security can be found in both open and closed source software. Cases of failure can certainly be found in closed source, do we have any major examples of security failures in open source projects? Heartbleed comes to mind, though not much else. I can't help but suspect there's some degree of unintended security by minority going on for a lot of it too though, and wider adoption of open source software would remove that veil.

>imagine having 100+ of these types of functions you have to write every day without an IDE?
For one, unless you're writing an OS or libc, you really shouldn't write functions that take 3+ pointer arguments. Either break your function up, use a struct to encapsulate your data, or use a language that's higher level than C. And I don't really see how an IDE would help with those kinds of functions, usually they just slow me down because they keep second-guessing me on how to properly indent long argument lists.

I do go to school, but I somehow feel "dirty" for using a paid product that I only get for free because I'm a student. Maybe I'm just autistic.

The only downside to open source is that a lot of it is created as an "alternative" or "replacement" for an already established proprietary product, and the open-source versions tend to be underdeveloped and underfunded, which kind of gives open-source in general a bad name. But given the choice between an open-source and closed-source products that received equal amounts of funding and development, I'd definitely go for open source. Even if the product itself was no better than the closed source version, the fact that it can be modified to suit your needs rather than having to rebuild it from the ground up is a big advantage just by itself.

I don't really hear much about popular software products being "reverse engineered", unless they mean to crack DRM and stuff. I mean, the only serious attempt to reverse-engineer Windows is ReactOS, and that's done as a hobby rather than for any security benefit. Reverse-engineering seems to mainly be done on those systems that don't have much of an open interface in the first place, like I could understand reverse-engineering the embedded software of an ATM or voting machine to get it to execute arbitrary code - but that kind of RE attack on something like Windows would be kind of pointless, when you can just as easily put that arbitrary code in an EXE and trick someone into installing it by claiming it's a pirated game or new malware removal tool or something. Social engineering is usually cheaper than true security cracking, because idiots are a dime a dozen. And when the source is open, bad guys can certainly easily find any potential weak points in the code - but so can good guys, so it tends to balance out. Whereas even when vulnerabilities are found in closed source, usually the only response is to send out vague "security update patches" without giving you any clue where the vulnerability actually was (or whether you could have been exploited before the patches went out), and the vague nature of security patches themselves means they can become an attack vector if anyone managed to hack the servers. Or even just did some social engineering, "your OS is old and full of vulnerabilities, but you can't get the official updates because you lost your registration number, well here they are as a free download with no questions asked."

I want to be able to see the world in code and have root access like neo

that's how I feel like using vim

>If I buy an iPhone because most people have one, would you say I didn't fall for a marketing scheme because no marketers were involved?

a good comparison woulb de if you downloaded iphone and liked its features, and ultimately decidewd to keep it because you liked it, not because other people use it.

and you only decided to try it because you glimpsed over its features when you saw other using it.

in that case, it wouldnt be a marketing machine


its not because you're clicking an 'organicaly' positioned result that it isn't there because money was spent on marketing, it doesnt even require google intent like the other user siuggests, it might simply be good white/black hat SEO on the part of sublime.

Read the chart again mate

Calling a dual-core decent hardware is a huge stretch by current standards. Just saying, I hate my Lenovo T450s with i7 5600u and 12G ram, its a piece of shit, my 4 years older desktop with i5 3570k@4,7Ghz runs circles around it and I feel bad every time I have to use the laptop, huge buyers remorse.

This.

>Bought into the atom meme cause of retard coworkers

>Slow as fuck piece of shit that looked nice but I got tired of using a basically a full size fucking browser just to edit text

>Switch to sublime meme

>Hey this is pretty comfy...

>ctrl+s

>"BUY THIS SHIT RIGHT NOW GOY"

>JavaScript Jew fools me for the last time

>Switch to VS code

>Install some themes and plugins, set up vim shortcuts

>Looks great and has package manager, theme engine, sensible config files, fast as fuck, written in C++ and not ShekelScript

Still use intellij for Java projects and Android studio flavor for android stuff. If I wasnt a poorfag I'd probably give CLion a whirl too.

Seriously though, vs code is the best. All you emacs fags can keep your antiquated bullshit.

Which one lets me know if I've misspelled a variable name?

Should have gotten a T420 instead.

Atom is nice because of its greater extensibility, but it has performance issues with large files. I've noticed for regular sized files it's not an issue. I'm curious what a lot of people are doing that exacerbates the issue.

VSCode feels like it has more potential but its API is currently very limited. A lot of functionality that it doesn't have can't yet easily be added via extensions, but Microsoft is doing a good job at figuring out those points and trying to make protocols for them (LSP, source control modules). Even its Vim mode is missing some key commands that makes it near unusable for me.

Atom/VSCode are both written in JS (technically, coffeescript/typescript respectively) on top of the Electron framework. There's no C++ as far as I can see.

I guess I should just give up running from the JS Jew then. I had heard (from a clearly retarded user) that it was built in c++ and just took his word for it. Based on performance I can see why I didn't question it though.

Semi related note, the electron wrapper for Google play music is fantastic.

lol everyone BTFO

>he doesn't know is easily capable of code completion, generation, and declaration jumping out of the box

TFW school gives me VS 2017 Enterprise edition for free.

>have to use PyCharm for school
>takes forever to start
>has zero (0) features that aren't available with VIM and command line utilities

That math isn't even right retard.

>nobody actually knows how to calculate the volume of anything

You're a fucking idiot. Kill yourself.

>Not using VS Code for everything

lol hey gramps

>It's like there is no good IDE for C for some reason.
Probably because most C programmers use VIM and don't fall for shallow marketing attempts for bloat programs that just bundle a few command line utilities together and take 10x as long to launch.

>yfw modern patent wars between Newton and Liebniz
10/10 would sacrifice knowledge of Calculus to watch.

>>nobody actually knows how to calculate the volume of anything
>You're a fucking idiot. Kill yourself.
did you even read the post?
Kill yourself faggot.

gvim is pretty comfy on windows

Just werks

>vi(m) has existed since 1980
???
Vi has been around since the 70s.
Vi(m) has been around since the 90s. And has been expanded on and improved. Not to say Emacs hasn't, however.

If you wanna complain about age, complain to Emacs users. Emacs also requires ~200MB of libs to install on my Debian machine, so give it a negative for being bloated.

Vim always comes out on top. Of course, I can't say I'm not fond of VS... Very comfortable to use.

>Are you poor?
>Yes
>eclipse
I'm poor af but I still use VS. Except for java, though I'd rather use something other than eclipse if I could (or at least knew alternatives).

I like vim though, it's comfy - learning curves a bit higher than a text editor should be but well worth it IMO

banking apps(or at least web APIs) are moving to open source because of PSD2, so as soon as those web APIs go full open source then there's no reason the apps that use them wouldn't, since it'll allow any 3rd party developer to make apps for them

Java -> Intellij Idea

sorry to burst your bubble pal but VSCode is also written in JS/Electron, not C++. That would be Sublime.

Are you sure eclipse doesn't run out of memory by 500 lines of code?

VsVim master race

>not using acme
just werks. also literally less than 500 LoC

Because I am not a faglord unlike you

I used atom before sublime. I have a huge reference file that when opened atom takes a very long time but when opened with sublime instantly loads.

I use sublime or vs code during development but when deploying on a server via ssh I'm forced to use vi or some harder to use editor.

>I use sublime or vs code during development
Hoe often do you suck your mother's dick?

>I'm forced to use vi or some harder to use editor.
>what is sshfs
>What is emacs?
kys

Shut the fuck up you wannabe hackers. The company owns you. If the development environment is in Visual Studio, you install that shit and configure it according to the company rules.

>wageslave

Vim is still updated today. Ergonomically superior to any other editor that exists today. Enjoy your mouse + arrow keys setup lol

>not using a real editor or ide with vim hotkeys