Is APFS better than HFS+?

Is APFS better than HFS+?

Other urls found in this thread:

cio.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probably-the-worst-file-system-ever.html
cnet.com/uk/news/how-to-manually-enable-ntfs-read-and-write-in-os-x/
drewthaler.blogspot.com/2007/12/case-against-insensitivity.html
developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/APFS_Guide/FAQ/FAQ.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40016999-CH6-DontLinkElementID_1
btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Conversion_from_Ext3
arstechnica.com/apple/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7/12/
twitter.com/TylerLoch/status/834094783618568192
arstechnica.com/apple/2016/06/a-zfs-developers-analysis-of-the-good-and-bad-in-apples-new-apfs-file-system/
hexblog.com/decompilation/video/vd1.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Is a prime steak with salt better than eating a 30 year old rotting chicken carcass. Obviously dumb cunt.

>is one special snowflake filesystem better than some other special snowflake operating system?

Nope, both are un-necessary garbage lol.

Just use the NT file system

I doubt you could get worse than HFS+ without trying, and as much as I'm convinced Cook's trying to run the company into the ground I don't think that's the case.

>I doubt you could get worse than HFS+ without trying
Tried NTFS? HFS+ at least pretends to prevent fragmentation rather than running defrag in the background whenever your machine is idle.

Monkey piss combined with shit is better than fucking HFS+.

>buy external harddrive
>plug into mac
>it's not writeable
>have to reformat it to anything but NTFS

I swear, OSX is a bad joke.

Licensing is most likely why, just install Tuxera NTFS

This sucks but can't you compile NTFS-3G+FUSE for Mac OS X?

I remember you could in Mac OS X 10.6

Yeah sure you can use external applications to get the drivers, but even Linux can write to NTFS out of the box now.

How are they going to convert HFS+ to APFS without loss of data on mobile devices that don't have any free space left?

Neat, I really don't give a shit

cio.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probably-the-worst-file-system-ever.html
>The true horrors of HFS+ are not in how it’s not a great filesystem, but in how it’s actively designed to be a bad filesystem by people who thought they had good ideas.
>The case insensitivity is just a horribly bad idea, and Apple could have pushed fixing it. They didn’t. Instead, they doubled down on a bad idea, and actively extended it – very very badly – to unicode. And it’s not even UTF-8, it’s UCS2 I think.
>And then picking NFD normalization – and making it visible, and actively converting correct unicode into that absolutely horrible format, that’s just inexcusable. Even the people who think normalization is a good thing admit that NFD is a bad format, and certainly not for data exchange. It’s not even “paste-eater” quality thinking. It’s actually actively corrupting user data. By design. Christ.
>And Apple let these monkeys work on their filesystem? Seriously?

I've been using this method for ages now.
cnet.com/uk/news/how-to-manually-enable-ntfs-read-and-write-in-os-x/

Never mind the clusterfuck that is : and /. MacOS Classic allowed / in filenames and used : to separate path components. UNIX and OS X use / to separate path components and allow : as a normal character. But OS X's GUI allows / like Classic did, but if you type a / in a filename it actually makes a : that is displayed as a /. View it in Terminal and you can see it's really a :.

It already happened.

With any update, it won't let you install them unless you have enough free space remaining, I think it uninstalls some apps then reinstalls them after an update.

exFAT masterrace here

What an achievement writing a better FS than HFS+

What is wrong with case insensitive?

Why do they keep using common and important characters as separators? Why not use a character that would rarely be in a filename, like ` ~ | or ^ ?

>What is wrong with case insensitive?
File and file are the same thing when they shouldn't be.

>What is wrong with case insensitive?
1.It's poorly defined.
2. Every filesystem does it differently.
3. Case-insensitivity is a layering violation.
4. Case-insensitivity forces layering violations upon other code.
5. Case-insensitivity is contagious.
6. Case-insensitivity adds complexity and provides no actual benefit.
drewthaler.blogspot.com/2007/12/case-against-insensitivity.html

but speculation is that APFS in macOS will be be case-insensitive as Apple did list it as current limitation for the developer preview:
developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/APFS_Guide/FAQ/FAQ.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40016999-CH6-DontLinkElementID_1

>File and file are the same thing when they shouldn't be.
debatable.
having both 'File' and 'file' is confusing as fuck for normal users.

tuxera is buggy as fuck
fuse is slow as fuck

use paragon instead

HFS+ can be case-sensitive and always was case-sensitive on iOS

It's still case insensitive by default on OS X, even worse is that using a case sensitive partition can be problematic for some programs.

they prolly just convert the metadata and let the data be, so not much free space needed.
same as:
btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Conversion_from_Ext3

XFS masterrace

NTFS is still miles ahead of HFS+.

exFAT cant into journaling.

Accidently unplug without ejecting, lose every fucking thing!

exFAT isn't a journaling filesystem? Jesus, what the fuck?

lol

>NTFS is still miles ahead of HFS+.
Said like someone who has actually used HFS+... I don't think.

sure, linux fs are prolly worse as they all had serious data loss bugs (xfs in 2004, ext4 in 2009). the one must-not-have requirement for any filesystem.

HFS+ user here, anything's better.

please read arstechnica.com/apple/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7/12/
just to pick one highlight:
>File system metadata structures in HFS+ have global locks. Only one process can update the file system at a time.
NTFS not doing that obv makes it way faster.

>Accidently unplug without ejecting, lose every fucking thing!
bullshit.
there at least needs to be a write happening and that one corrupting everything seems very unlikely, except if you only have like on file on it.
even if corrupt, it's simple structure makes it easy to repair. hardly slower than unrolling a journal.

journaling is overrated.
we don't have unstable OS anymore but the speed penalties due to journaling are still real.
google patched journaling out of ext4 for a reason.

Benevolent cuck.

ebin

Still not as good as ZFS.

OK I NEED Sup Forums BRAINS HELP ... SERIOUSLY

i have a question that i cannot find answers too

so i run linux mint and i have been mounting my iphone 6 with HFS+ and dragging and dropping files for years

if this is a new file system i would assume no drivers for linux / win exist yet ????

does this break everything ???? does this mean i no longer can access any device with > iOS 10.3

i am serious -WHY IS THIS NOT BEING TALKED ABOUT ??? DO YOU GET WHAT I AM SAYING ?

nope.
different layers.
it never was possible to mount a fs on two OS at the same time. they wouldn't see each other and thus corrupt the fs.

dude i have been dragging and dropping flac files from my ext4 linux laptops to my hfs+ iphones for almost a decade

sorry if i didnt get the terminology correct but iassume there are no win/oss drivers for the apple file sytem as present and this breaks everything

specifically libimobiledevic afc2 ifuse libraries if you are being a smart ass. is there some backwards compatibility ?

WHY IS THIS NOT BEING TALKED ABOUT ?

NTFS does this too. It uses : to denote a alternate data stream - something similar to resource forks on classic MacOS

Linus is a retard and will probably complain about how default collations on things like SQL Server are case insensitive. You've been able to change the case sensitivity on HFS+ since forever if you really dont like it.

And if you want to go on and on about case sensitivity oddities look at NTFS. The file system is case sensitive but the APIs are not unless you explicit specify posix compatible case sensitivity flags. And since most things which use these APIs such as the command prompt do not specify those flags, good luck deleting the right file if a collision exists.

I like how everyones talking about HFS+ but no one is talking about APFS.

anyway, APFS is now the best filesystem available since APFS>ZFS.

depends on the support friendo

the best file system in the world doesn't mean shit if i cant mount it on another non apple machine

and vice versa

its 2017 and i still have to explain to mac people why they cant write to that ntfs hard disk that 90% percent of the world uses

file system performance = good
file system read/write compatibility = mandatory (punishable by death)

Wouldn't know. I'm still on El Capitan.

>its 2017 and i still have to explain to mac people why they cant write to that ntfs hard disk that 90% percent of the world uses
But you can without third party software, you just have to edit fstab and specify it is writable.

>its 2017 and i still have to explain to mac people why they cant write to that ntfs hard disk that 90% percent of the world uses
What the fuck are you on about? macOS has a native NTFS driver.

> WHY IS THIS NOT BEING TALKED ABOUT ??? DO YOU GET WHAT I AM SAYING ?
You see, Apple does not provide an afc2 daemon for iOS devices. Apple will write the afc and the drivers for its new filesystem, but you'll have to wait until 10.3 jailbreak. Community will write its own drivers.

Use exfat on external drives.. Works with Vista and newer, and Mac OS X 10.6 and newer.

> macOS has a native NTFS driver.
Read only.

so, destroy all open source filesystems? all of which are snowflakey because people forked them from each other because the didn't like one thing or another

That's just default mount options you fucking retard. Do you even UNIX? Just pass the correct flags to mount.

> "simply" needing to fstab edit flags on a Fischer Price operating system just so i can copy something to my friend who runs windows

Fucking hell you apple apologists must be getting fit with all that mental gymnastics

Not having out of the box NTFS writes on OSX for the past 10 years was one of the biggest tech fuck ups that caused more misery to normies than Win ME

ITT: Macfags shilling for their Fagputers

>fstab
You don't need to edit fstab to mount a disk, are you fucking retarded?

>Fucking hell you apple apologists must be getting fit with all that mental gymnastics
The whole point of macOS is that it's POSIX.

>Not having out of the box NTFS writes on OSX for the past 10 years was one of the biggest tech fuck ups that caused more misery to normies than Win ME
Also, you're wrong. External disk plugged in with USB automounts with read+write. I just tried it, so fuck off with your misinformation and Windows shilling.

I disagree. Paragon kept throwing errors when trying to copy files from any drive to HFS for me. The only purpose it served for me was to use it as a read only partition and for that, I don't need expensive ass software.

Tuxera actually works for me.

>Also, you're wrong. External disk plugged in with USB automounts with read+write.

>fuck off with your misinformation

Woah there the irony

External USB NTFS drives -cannot- be written by default unless this was just added in 10.12.4.

You just need to enable the experimental driver in system configuration.

Or mount using command line.

(Alternatively installing one of the gorillean third-party drivers [like fuse ntfs-3g or paragon] through mac-ports or homebrew or whatever)

But seriously, if you are afraid of using the command line, you probably shouldn't be using Mac let alone be on this board.

Macs are usually sold to people who want a computer to work right away without issues, not to people who love to tinker with shit. Your average starbucks problem glasses lady ain't gonna buy that $2000 laptop so she can learn about unix or using the terminal regularly.

I have no qualms about having to use a specific driver for writing on NTFS (I do use one in fact), but to say that it does support out of the box writing on external NTFS drives is a blatant lie, unless, like I said, was added to the latest point update as a feature (which is not listed in any case).

The OS cannot be installed in APFS at the moment.

>Macs are usually sold to people who want a computer to work right away without issues
Uh, no. It's sold to people who want a computer that works, period.

>not to people who love to tinker with shit.
That's wrong, you fucking retard. Apple has ALWAYS been about tinkering, ask any long term Apple user. Ever since Apple II has Apple been popular in the hacker community.

It's also been extremely popular with people who work in creative professions.

>Your average starbucks problem glasses lady ain't gonna buy that $2000 laptop so she can learn about unix or using the terminal regularly.
Who cares about starbuck NEETs, I'm talking about people who use their Macs for work, not sit around and be unemployed.

>I have no qualms about having to use a specific driver for writing on NTFS (I do use one in fact), but to say that it does support out of the box writing on external NTFS drives is a blatant lie
It does support it out of the box, you just write a fucking command OR flick a fucking GUI knob in system settings.

Jesus Christ, I guess you're the sort of person that complains that Linux doesn't work either.

>REEEE YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO USE MAC THAT WAY.!!!!! STOP IT!!!!! USE IT IN THE EXTREMELY LIMITING WAY I SAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE USED REEEEEEEEEEE

Maximum autism

>you just write a fucking command
Original statement: "it automounts with read+write", not "I type a command and it mounts with read+write"

>flick a fucking GUI knob in system settings
That's some good shit you're smoking.

Also I still disagree "Apple has ALWAYS been about tinkering", in the last years they have gotten much more done in the safety and security department than letting users do whatever the fuck they want to do. SIP is great and all, but how's that giving a shit about tinkerers is beyond me. You can't even change the fucking system fonts without trouble.

I guess they took away the option to "allow apps downloaded from anywhere" and only allow it with a terminal command because, you know, it's a waste of pixels or some shit. Why would they do it otherwise.

it can, but not officially supported:
twitter.com/TylerLoch/status/834094783618568192

the what th

what

that must be buggy as fuck though. I'd like to try but fuck me

FileVault doesn't work on it.

APFS is missing one killer feature of ZFS:
checksums for the whole filesystem, not just metadata.
so there's still undetected bitrot possible on APFS.
arstechnica.com/apple/2016/06/a-zfs-developers-analysis-of-the-good-and-bad-in-apples-new-apfs-file-system/

>Apple has ALWAYS been about tinkering

Is that why their hardware is almost completely unmodular? Or why massive parts of their OS are closed source?

>You just need to enable the experimental driver in system configuration.
why do you think it's called experimental?

>he thinks he cant tinker
>he doesnt know how to reverse engineer

>i-it doesn't matter if it's closed source proprietary shit, just open up IDA Pro and try disassembling the binaries!

with that view every system is for tinkers

I get returns from people buying harddrives for their macs, and complain when they cant write to them. They refuse to let me reformat it for their mac too. It takes 2 seconds, hardly an effort, but they're still mad since someone sold them a harddrive for their mac that "doesn't work".

>he cares about me, see?
>he's just beating me real hard because he wants me to be strong! I'm sure of that!

>just open up IDA Pro and try disassembling the binaries!
You decompile them, not disassemble them. Its a lot easier to read C than assembly.

>IDA
>Interactive Disassembler

no partitions in APFS means more free space for your iPhone as you get to use the "hidden" free space of your system partition.
usually around 2GB but depending on model.

meanwhile Pixel has two system partitions (one backup) and thus wastes a lot of space.

OSX has built in writing to NT, and has done since the PPC days. It's just not enabled.

That's because it's supposed to have transparent encryption built into the filesystem, instead of another layer of bullshit.

Its part of IDA Pro you spurg.

>one backup) and thus wastes a lot of space
That's literally just for seamless updates tho.
Did iPhones ever do this? They need space for the OS, but switching t APFS shouldn't give them any more.

It's also interactive shit that takes forever to use since you have to hand-hold it through the code.

It's not just some fire-and-forget tool, where you pass in some command-line options and go fetch coffee while you wait.

>it's hard to set mount flags
If you're transplanting NTFS hard drives into your apple machines, you're already out of Fisher-Price territory, so who cares?

>plugging a usb hard/flash drive in is transplanting

What USB drive on the planet uses NTFS instead of FAT?

>but i always format my usb drives with ntfs because im a faget
I have yet to see a single one in the wild.

>It's also interactive shit that takes forever to use since you have to hand-hold it through the code.
You've never used IDA Pro have you? You press F5 and it decompiles whatever function you're in. You click on another function in the decompilation window and it will then decompile that.

>It's not just some fire-and-forget tool
You clearly have never used IDA Pro because it literally is.

> where you pass in some command-line options and go fetch coffee while you wait.
And again, you dont pass command line options, you press F5. And you dont wait either

>what is hackintosh
>what is darwin core

>why do you think it's called experimental?
Because Microsoft are closed source kikes.

It's the same reason why NTFS on Linux is flaky as fuck.

I've literally never seen a usb drive using FAT ever

...

now that's a sound argument

>and it decompiles whatever function you're in
If you only use it for small code snippets, sure.

>You clearly have never used IDA Pro because it literally is.
It literally isn't, you just mentioned how you had to use an IDE for it.

>And again, you dont pass command line options, you press F5. And you dont wait either
You have to use an IDE, and it only works sometimes.

You don't have to wait because you've only use it for small code samples.

Literally all of them come pre-formatted with FAT, and if you think "90%" of people are going to reformat them with NTFS, you are beyond delusional.

NTFS-3g on linux is far from flaky. I have used it for years without trouble.

>NTFS-3g on linux is far from flaky
Last time I used it (3 years ago), it didn't properly NTFS junctions and managed to fuck up the journaling. But you can run NTFS 3g on mac as well, I don't see the problem.

>you just mentioned how you had to use an IDE for it.
I never mentioned this.

>If you only use it for small code snippets, sure.
Again, you've never used this have you?

>You have to use an IDE, and it only works sometimes.
Thank you for proving you've never used IDA Pro

hexblog.com/decompilation/video/vd1.html

The one I bought literally yesterday came with FAT32
Which I promptly formatted to NTFS because I like to have files heavier than 4GBs

It is the proper response to what is obviously untruthful bait.